On 7/5/2023 5:40 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 22:38:14 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>> I've been banned from rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish for criticising the Netanyahu regime, so I can't reply to any of their posts anymore. Not a big sacrifice.
>> Please share your objections to the Netanyahu regime. Be specific. You always make comments about it, but don't ever seem to say what it is exactly that you object to.
>
> I'm not a member of rec.music.classicl.recordings.jewish so unable to comment.

As a founding member of rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish I hereby admit you as a member.

On 7/5/2023 6:03 PM, Graham wrote:
> On 2023-07-05 2:55 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 7/5/2023 4:16 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 1:07:58 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A favourite pianist of mine in Bartok’s Mikrokosmos 5
>>>> and 6 and the sonatas with Pauk. I love his fresh
>>>> interpretation of Liszt’s Années Bk 1, and I think
>>>> his small form Schubert is well worth a listen too.
>>>
>>> Sorry to hear. Jando is/was certainly underrated.
>>>
>>>> There may be other fabulous recordings I don’t
>>>> know about, if so, please say.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHeivSBh8nrGmFmX3T1lTkg
>>>
>>> Also note Jenő Jandó was Jewish.
>>>
>>> dk
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> As were all these guys and gals:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_classical_pianists
>>
>> I really don't pay much attention to celebrities ethnicity, so I am surprised to see Martha Argerich listed.
>
> And Ashkenazy's mother was not Jewish.

Gasp!

> There used to be a similar list that included Glen Gould!

On 7/5/2023 6:13 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 2:35:06 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 7/5/2023 5:35 AM, JohnGavin wrote:
>>>
>>> I wish this newsgroup had many more Asian contributors.
>>
>> I wish all women were Asian. I was watching a k-pop video a
>> couple of years ago and when there was close-up, I blurted,
>> "My god, that's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen.
>> Then there were close-ups of each of the other women
>> and they were each more beautiful then the first one.
>
> Did you discuss the matter with your rabbi?
> Maybe you should spend more time reading
> the Ta;mud than watching videos! ;-)
>
> dk

I definitely should.

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:03:59 PM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
>
> And Ashkenazy's mother was not Jewish.

Criteria for being considered Jewish vary.

The traditional Jewish interpretation is
that any person whose mother is/was
Jewish is Jewish by birth. According to
this interpretation, someone with 1/16
Jewish blood/DNA can be Jewish if
the entire mother side line is Jewish.

Outside the Jewish community, many
people use the phrase "half-Jewish" to
describe people with one non-Jewish
parent, regardless of side.

> There used to be a similar list that
> included Glen Gould!

Not that I recall. Gould's family was
English/Scottish/Norwegian. His
fasther was Russell Herbert Gold.
He changed his name to Gould in
order to avoid being "mistaken" for
Jewish because of the widespread
anti-semitism in Toronto during the
1930s.

dk

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:19:17 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> > And Ashkenazy's mother was not Jewish.
>
> Gasp!

There are/were many mixed marriages in
the professional middle class in Russia.
Their kids are/were often described as
"Jewish" by Russians and/or in official
documents.

Among pianists, Ashkenazy, Sokolov,
Petrov, Ervin Nyiregyházi, Geza Anda,
and probably others, are/were half
Jewish with Jewish fathers.

dk

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:17:26 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 7/5/2023 5:40 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> > I'm not a member of rec.music.classicl.recordings.jewish so unable to comment.
> As a founding member of rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish I hereby admit you as a member.

I will wager one penny Andy will decline,
or set outrageous conditions to accept,
such as the Israeli government stopping
immediately the use of all fossil fuels,
and shutting down all the off shore oil
and gas extraction platforms.

dk

On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 23:42:37 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:17:26 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 7/5/2023 5:40 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not a member of rec.music.classicl.recordings.jewish so unable to comment.
> > As a founding member of rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish I hereby admit you as a member.
> I will wager one penny Andy will decline,
> or set outrageous conditions to accept,
> such as the Israeli government stopping
> immediately the use of all fossil fuels,
> and shutting down all the off shore oil
> and gas extraction platforms.
>
> dk

No response.

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:53:15 PM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 23:42:37 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:17:26 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > On 7/5/2023 5:40 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm not a member of rec.music.classicl.recordings.jewish so unable to comment.
> > > As a founding member of rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish I hereby admit you as a member.
> > I will wager one penny Andy will decline,
> > or set outrageous conditions to accept,
> > such as the Israeli government stopping
> > immediately the use of all fossil fuels,
> > and shutting down all the off shore oil
> > and gas extraction platforms.
> >
> > dk
> No response.

If you stop your vague non-specific slamming of the "current"" government of Israel I will have no reason to ask for specifics. If you provided specifics, we could discuss them calmly and reasonably. But that is too off-topic for you whereas global warming isn't. Right.

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:32:21 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:53:15 PM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 23:42:37 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:17:26 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > > On 7/5/2023 5:40 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'm not a member of rec.music.classicl.recordings.jewish so unable to comment.
> > > > As a founding member of rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish I hereby admit you as a member.
> > > I will wager one penny Andy will decline,
> > > or set outrageous conditions to accept,
> > > such as the Israeli government stopping
> > > immediately the use of all fossil fuels,
> > > and shutting down all the off shore oil
> > > and gas extraction platforms.
> >
> > No response.
>
> If you stop your vague non-specific slamming
> of the "current"" government of Israel I will have
> no reason to ask for specifics. If you provided
> specifics, we could discuss them calmly and
> reasonably. But that is too off-topic for you
> whereas global warming isn't. Right.

The entire global warming discussion has been
too politicized to allow any rational discussion.

dk

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 01:16:50 -0700, Dan Koren wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 1:07:58???AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
> >
> > A favourite pianist of mine in Bartok´s Mikrokosmos 5
> > and 6 and the sonatas with Pauk. I love his fresh
> > interpretation of Liszt´s Années Bk 1, and I think
> > his small form Schubert is well worth a listen too.
>
> Sorry to hear. Jando is/was certainly underrated.
>
> > There may be other fabulous recordings I don´t
> > know about, if so, please say.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHeivSBh8nrGmFmX3T1lTkg
>
> Also note Jen"o Jandó was Jewish.

And he played antisemitic music.

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 00:39:19 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:19:17 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > > And Ashkenazy's mother was not Jewish.
> >
> > Gasp!
> There are/were many mixed marriages in
> the professional middle class in Russia.
> Their kids are/were often described as
> "Jewish" by Russians and/or in official
> documents.
>
> Among pianists, Ashkenazy, Sokolov,
> Petrov, Ervin Nyiregyházi, Geza Anda,
> and probably others, are/were half
> Jewish with Jewish fathers.

Did you know Fricsay had a Jewish mother? Never thought of him being Jewish until I read it.

>
> dk

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:17:24 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 00:39:19 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:19:17 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >
> > > > And Ashkenazy's mother was not Jewish.
> > >
> > > Gasp!
> > There are/were many mixed marriages in
> > the professional middle class in Russia.
> > Their kids are/were often described as
> > "Jewish" by Russians and/or in official
> > documents.
> >
> > Among pianists, Ashkenazy, Sokolov,
> > Petrov, Ervin Nyiregyházi, Geza Anda,
> > and probably others, are/were half
> > Jewish with Jewish fathers.
>
> Did you know Fricsay had a Jewish mother?

Of course. This is noted in the Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferenc_Fricsay

However I knew about it long before the
Wikipedia was created.

> Never thought of him being Jewish until I read it.

You have a lot of learning ahead of you, my boy!

dk

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:35:08 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:17:24 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 00:39:19 UTC+2:
> > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:19:17 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > And Ashkenazy's mother was not Jewish.
> > > >
> > > > Gasp!
> > > There are/were many mixed marriages in
> > > the professional middle class in Russia.
> > > Their kids are/were often described as
> > > "Jewish" by Russians and/or in official
> > > documents.
> > >
> > > Among pianists, Ashkenazy, Sokolov,
> > > Petrov, Ervin Nyiregyházi, Geza Anda,
> > > and probably others, are/were half
> > > Jewish with Jewish fathers.
> >
> > Did you know Fricsay had a Jewish mother?
> Of course. This is noted in the Wikipedia:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferenc_Fricsay
>
> However I knew about it long before the
> Wikipedia was created.
> > Never thought of him being Jewish until I read it.
> You have a lot of learning ahead of you, my boy!
>
> dk

I think it's actually the other way around, my favourite self-hating Jew :)

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 03:32:21 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> If you stop your vague non-specific slamming of the "current"" government of Israel I will have no reason to ask for specifics. If you provided specifics, we could discuss them calmly and reasonably. But that is too off-topic for you whereas global warming isn't. Right.

No response to posts like this

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 03:54:22 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> The entire global warming discussion has been
> too politicized to allow any rational discussion.
> > dk

No response to posts like this.

On 7/6/2023 4:04 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 03:32:21 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>> If you stop your vague non-specific slamming of the "current"" government of Israel I will have no reason to ask for specifics. If you provided specifics, we could discuss them calmly and reasonably. But that is too off-topic for you whereas global warming isn't. Right.
>
> No response to posts like this

You are coward.

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 15:35:17 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > No response to posts like this
> You are coward.

On the contrary. I'm exercising some control to help clear up the mess on RMCR. You could do the same.

On 7/6/2023 11:05 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 15:35:17 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>
>>> No response to posts like this
>> You are coward.
>
> On the contrary. I'm exercising some control to help clear up the mess on RMCR. You could do the same.

Fine, I'll leave it be. But the next time you refer vague, non-specific atrocities committed by the "current" or any other government of Israel, you will hear from me.

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 16:12:46 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> Fine, I'll leave it be. But the next time you refer vague, non-specific atrocities committed by the "current" or any other government of Israel, you will hear from me.

It's so crystal clear that we utterly disagree on the Netanyahu regime that it seems pointless to flog a dead horse.

On 7/6/2023 11:33 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 16:12:46 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>> Fine, I'll leave it be. But the next time you refer vague, non-specific atrocities committed by the "current" or any other government of Israel, you will hear from me.
>
> It's so crystal clear that we utterly disagree on the Netanyahu regime that it seems pointless to flog a dead horse.

Couldn't resist it one more time, could you. The person who says conversation is pointless is usually the one who is afraid to engage because he has no facts to back his opinion.

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 17:12:00 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 7/6/2023 11:33 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 16:12:46 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> >> Fine, I'll leave it be. But the next time you refer vague, non-specific atrocities committed by the "current" or any other government of Israel, you will hear from me.
> >
> > It's so crystal clear that we utterly disagree on the Netanyahu regime that it seems pointless to flog a dead horse.
> Couldn't resist it one more time, could you. The person who says conversation is pointless is usually the one who is afraid to engage because he has no facts to back his opinion.

You absolutely have to have the last word, don't you Frank? But it's useless flogging the party line again and again and again. It's just one of many, many views on Israel. I think it's pretty safe to say that there's no single "correct" view of a conflict which has gone on since the beginning of time. However much you believe you're right inside your head, it's a whole different world outside your head.

On 7/6/2023 1:27 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 17:12:00 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 7/6/2023 11:33 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 16:12:46 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> Fine, I'll leave it be. But the next time you refer vague, non-specific atrocities committed by the "current" or any other government of Israel, you will hear from me.
>>>
>>> It's so crystal clear that we utterly disagree on the Netanyahu regime that it seems pointless to flog a dead horse.
>> Couldn't resist it one more time, could you. The person who says conversation is pointless is usually the one who is afraid to engage because he has no facts to back his opinion.
>
> You absolutely have to have the last word, don't you Frank? But it's useless flogging the party line again and again and again. It's just one of many, many views on Israel. I think it's pretty safe to say that there's no single "correct" view of a conflict which has gone on since the beginning of time. However much you believe you're right inside your head, it's a whole different world outside your head.

I'm not talking about views. I'm talking about discussing facts. You don't want to.

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 18:38:41 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>> It's so crystal clear that we utterly disagree on the Netanyahu regime that it seems pointless to flog a dead horse.
> >> Couldn't resist it one more time, could you. The person who says conversation is pointless is usually the one who is afraid to engage because he has no facts to back his opinion.
> >
> > You absolutely have to have the last word, don't you Frank? But it's useless flogging the party line again and again and again. It's just one of many, many views on Israel. I think it's pretty safe to say that there's no single "correct" view of a conflict which has gone on since the beginning of time. However much you believe you're right inside your head, it's a whole different world outside your head.
> I'm not talking about views. I'm talking about discussing facts. You don't want to.

If you think I'm going to spend a chunk of my life gathering data on the Israeli conflict you are delusional. I could easily do so - I'm an academic and an ex-journalist and I can gather and analyse data speedily and efficiently. I could give you data on life expectancy and poverty levels in Gaza, I could give you an analysis of the number of victims of the Israeli security forces in the West Bank, both residents and journalists, I could give you an analysis month by month of the amount of land in hectares that settlers have taken over from the inhabitants of the West bank.

All this would be useless because 1. You would ignore it, 2. You would change the subject, 3. You would manipulate the data according to your party line, e.g. Palestine never existed, they're all terrorists anyway and there's no evidence that any journalists were shot by the security services.

Since I'm not going to pander to an insatiable blather of posts all ignoring anything that disagrees with your own personal views I'm not going to continue this completely pointless exchange of posts.

I've had enough. Arguing with brick walls has to come to an end,

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 7:55:05 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
>
>
> I've had enough. Arguing with brick walls has to come to an end,

bravo. It's to be expected that FB will want to have the last word (and then some), however, this is a completely useless discussion.

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 19:13:07 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 7:55:05 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> >
> >
> > I've had enough. Arguing with brick walls has to come to an end,
> bravo. It's to be expected that FB will want to have the last word (and then some), however, this is a completely useless discussion.

Yes, of course. Word for word.