On 7/6/2023 1:55 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 18:38:41 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>> It's so crystal clear that we utterly disagree on the Netanyahu regime that it seems pointless to flog a dead horse.
>>>> Couldn't resist it one more time, could you. The person who says conversation is pointless is usually the one who is afraid to engage because he has no facts to back his opinion.
>>>
>>> You absolutely have to have the last word, don't you Frank? But it's useless flogging the party line again and again and again. It's just one of many, many views on Israel. I think it's pretty safe to say that there's no single "correct" view of a conflict which has gone on since the beginning of time. However much you believe you're right inside your head, it's a whole different world outside your head.
>> I'm not talking about views. I'm talking about discussing facts. You don't want to.
>
> If you think I'm going to spend a chunk of my life gathering data on the Israeli conflict you are delusional. I could easily do so - I'm an academic and an ex-journalist and I can gather and analyse data speedily and efficiently. I could give you data on life expectancy and poverty levels in Gaza,

Why would any of that be Israel's fault?

I could give you an analysis of the number of victims of the Israeli security forces in the West Bank,

You didn't mention those security forces are just. Providing security for Israelis by deterring terrorism. Do you disagree?

both residents and journalists, I could give you an analysis month by month of the amount of land in hectares that settlers have taken over from the inhabitants of the West bank.
>

First you would have to research and evaluate the claims each side has, and justify why you have decided that Palestinian presence discounts everything else.

Would you also relate to me the number if Israeli's killed by terrorist attacks? Or do you consider terrorists to be freedom fighters?

> All this would be useless because 1. You would ignore it, 2. You would change the subject, 3. You would manipulate the data according to your party line, e.g. Palestine never existed, they're all terr

Have I changed the subject? Haven't I asked good questions? Do you have answers? And you makes stuff. I never said all Palestinians were terrorists.

orists anyway and there's no evidence that any journalists were shot by the security services.
>

Accidents happen in war. If you have any evidence that Israel deliberately kills journalists (or children), please share it.

> Since I'm not going to pander to an insatiable blather of posts all ignoring anything that disagrees with your own personal views I'm not going to continue this completely pointless exchange of posts.
>
> I've had enough. Arguing with brick walls has to come to an end,

We're not arguing. I am asking for information and you are refusing to provide it. It's that simple.

On 7/6/2023 2:13 PM, Herman wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 7:55:05 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've had enough. Arguing with brick walls has to come to an end,
>
> bravo. It's to be expected that FB will want to have the last word (and then some), however, this is a completely useless discussion.

Every post is potentially the last word. No one "desires" it anymore than anyone else. You're saying that Andy or you can respond to a post of mine, but I can not respond to a post of yours. Can't you see that?

On 7/6/2023 1:27 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 17:12:00 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 7/6/2023 11:33 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 16:12:46 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> Fine, I'll leave it be. But the next time you refer vague, non-specific atrocities committed by the "current" or any other government of Israel, you will hear from me.
>>>
>>> It's so crystal clear that we utterly disagree on the Netanyahu regime that it seems pointless to flog a dead horse.
>> Couldn't resist it one more time, could you. The person who says conversation is pointless is usually the one who is afraid to engage because he has no facts to back his opinion.
>
> You absolutely have to have the last word, don't you Frank? But it's useless flogging the party line again and again and again. It's just one of many, many views on Israel. I think it's pretty safe to say that there's no single "correct" view of a conflict which has gone on since the beginning of time. However much you believe you're right inside your head, it's a whole different world outside your head.

Here's a summary of this conversation: You made vague, non-specific accusations against the "current" government of Israel. I asked you to provide specifics. You refuse.

Regardless of who's right, I win.

You remind me of Joseph McCarthy or Johnny Iseling.

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 20:07:53 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:

> Regardless of who's right, I win.
>

I'm so happy for you, it must mean so much in your life.....

Other than that no more conversations with brick walls.

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 02:02:56 -0700, Dan Koren wrote:

>
> "Appropriate" in what way? Don't wake up the
> audience? In case you didn't notice, everyone
> knows Jando was Hungarian. Many people
> however don't know he was also Jewish.

What you say is important: "A Hungarian" is
misleading, while a "Jewish pianist from
Hungary" is accurate and descriptive.
Jews persecute Hungarians, so calling a
Jewish Hungarian a "Hungarian" rings false.

>
> Which "half" is more important varies by
> person.
>
> Now go back to your corner.
>
> dk

On 7/6/2023 3:22 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 20:07:53 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>> Regardless of who's right, I win.
>>
>
> I'm so happy for you, it must mean so much in your life.....
>
> Other than that no more conversations with brick walls.

Takes one to know one. It's hard to imagine that a person not willing to talk about an issue could call the other guy a brick well, but you did it. Again.

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:53:47 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 02:02:56 -0700, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> >
> > "Appropriate" in what way? Don't wake up the
> > audience? In case you didn't notice, everyone
> > knows Jando was Hungarian. Many people
> > however don't know he was also Jewish.
>
> What you say is important: "A Hungarian" is
> misleading, while a "Jewish pianist from
> Hungary" is accurate and descriptive.
> Jews persecute Hungarians, so calling a
> Jewish Hungarian a "Hungarian" rings false.

"Jews persecute Hungarians" ?!?!?!?

dk

Pluted Pup schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 22:53:47 UTC+2:
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 02:02:56 -0700, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> >
> > "Appropriate" in what way? Don't wake up the
> > audience? In case you didn't notice, everyone
> > knows Jando was Hungarian. Many people
> > however don't know he was also Jewish.
>
> What you say is important: "A Hungarian" is
> misleading, while a "Jewish pianist from
> Hungary" is accurate and descriptive.
> Jews persecute Hungarians, so calling a
> Jewish Hungarian a "Hungarian" rings false.

I love this.

I think you are actually just trolling - had this feeling for a while...

>
> >
> > Which "half" is more important varies by
> > person.
> >
> > Now go back to your corner.
> >
> > dk

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 14:34:51 -0700, Frank Berger wrote:

> On 7/5/2023 5:35 AM, JohnGavin wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 5:19:05???AM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 10:16:07 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:02:59???AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Now go back to your corner.
> > > > >
> > > > > dk
> > > > RMCR owner speaking,
> > > > as usual in the imperative.
> > > He usually speaks to cats, so he has to adjust to humans.....
> >
> > I wish this newsgroup had many more Asian contributors.
>
> I wish all women were Asian. I was watching a k-pop video a couple of years ago and when there was close-up, I blurted, "My god, that's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. Then there were close-ups of each of the other women and they were each more beautiful then the first one.
>
> I guess that means I am a racist. So be it.

There you go, there would be more Asians and more women contributors
but the Jewish predators scared them off.

Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 23:02:44 UTC+2:
> Pluted Pup schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 22:53:47 UTC+2:
> > On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 02:02:56 -0700, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "Appropriate" in what way? Don't wake up the
> > > audience? In case you didn't notice, everyone
> > > knows Jando was Hungarian. Many people
> > > however don't know he was also Jewish.
> >
> > What you say is important: "A Hungarian" is
> > misleading, while a "Jewish pianist from
> > Hungary" is accurate and descriptive.
> > Jews persecute Hungarians, so calling a
> > Jewish Hungarian a "Hungarian" rings false.
> I love this.
>
> I think you are actually just trolling - had this feeling for a while...
> >
> > >
> > > Which "half" is more important varies by
> > > person.
> > >
> > > Now go back to your corner.
> > >
> > > dk

otoh people on this ng generally seem stupid enough to be capable of coming up with such nonsense... and ya... naa... pluted is just fucked in the head. even if he were just trolling he would have to be pretty fucked in the head to be trolling in this way.

But... in a way I found it funny... because it was completely absurd.

On Thu, 06 Jul 2023 07:35:03 -0700, Frank Berger wrote:

> On 7/6/2023 4:04 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 03:32:21 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > If you stop your vague non-specific slamming of the "current"" government of Israel I will have no reason to ask for specifics. If you provided specifics, we could discuss them calmly and reasonably. But that is too off-topic for you whereas global warming isn't. Right.
> >
> > No response to posts like this
>
> You are coward.

Noel Coward! This discussion is related to music!

Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 23:06:12 UTC+2:
> Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 23:02:44 UTC+2:
> > Pluted Pup schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 22:53:47 UTC+2:
> > > On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 02:02:56 -0700, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > "Appropriate" in what way? Don't wake up the
> > > > audience? In case you didn't notice, everyone
> > > > knows Jando was Hungarian. Many people
> > > > however don't know he was also Jewish.
> > >
> > > What you say is important: "A Hungarian" is
> > > misleading, while a "Jewish pianist from
> > > Hungary" is accurate and descriptive.
> > > Jews persecute Hungarians, so calling a
> > > Jewish Hungarian a "Hungarian" rings false.
> > I love this.
> >
> > I think you are actually just trolling - had this feeling for a while....
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Which "half" is more important varies by
> > > > person.
> > > >
> > > > Now go back to your corner.
> > > >
> > > > dk
> otoh people on this ng generally seem stupid enough to be capable of coming up with such nonsense... and ya... naa... pluted is just fucked in the head. even if he were just trolling he would have to be pretty fucked in the head to be trolling in this way.
>
> But... in a way I found it funny... because it was completely absurd.

I think in the context of pluted it was a stupid idea to think he was trolling... my mistake... it's just that this was so ridiculous it was actually funny...

On Thu, 06 Jul 2023 12:07:38 -0700, Frank Berger wrote:

> On 7/6/2023 1:27 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 17:12:00 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > On 7/6/2023 11:33 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 16:12:46 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > > > Fine, I'll leave it be. But the next time you refer vague, non-specific atrocities committed by the "current" or any other government of Israel, you will hear from me.
> > > >
> > > > It's so crystal clear that we utterly disagree on the Netanyahu regime that it seems pointless to flog a dead horse.
> > > Couldn't resist it one more time, could you. The person who says conversation is pointless is usually the one who is afraid to engage because he has no facts to back his opinion.
> >
> > You absolutely have to have the last word, don't you Frank? But it's useless flogging the party line again and again and again. It's just one of many, many views on Israel. I think it's pretty safe to say that there's no single "correct" view of a conflict which has gone on since the beginning of time. However much you believe you're right inside your head, it's a whole different world outside your head.
>
> Here's a summary of this conversation: You made vague, non-specific accusations against the "current" government of Israel. I asked you to provide specifics. You refuse.

What were Jean Jando's views on Israel's politics?

Maybe we should grill all pianists now about their
feelings about Israel so there won't be any arguments
after they pass away.

On Friday, 7 July 2023 at 03:55:05 UTC+10, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 18:38:41 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >>> It's so crystal clear that we utterly disagree on the Netanyahu regime that it seems pointless to flog a dead horse.
> > >> Couldn't resist it one more time, could you. The person who says conversation is pointless is usually the one who is afraid to engage because he has no facts to back his opinion.
> > >
> > > You absolutely have to have the last word, don't you Frank? But it's useless flogging the party line again and again and again. It's just one of many, many views on Israel. I think it's pretty safe to say that there's no single "correct" view of a conflict which has gone on since the beginning of time. However much you believe you're right inside your head, it's a whole different world outside your head.
> > I'm not talking about views. I'm talking about discussing facts. You don't want to.
> If you think I'm going to spend a chunk of my life gathering data on the Israeli conflict you are delusional. I could easily do so - I'm an academic and an ex-journalist and I can gather and analyse data speedily and efficiently. I could give you data on life expectancy and poverty levels in Gaza, I could give you an analysis of the number of victims of the Israeli security forces in the West Bank, both residents and journalists, I could give you an analysis month by month of the amount of land in hectares that settlers have taken over from the inhabitants of the West bank.
>
> All this would be useless because 1. You would ignore it, 2. You would change the subject, 3. You would manipulate the data according to your party line, e.g. Palestine never existed, they're all terrorists anyway and there's no evidence that any journalists were shot by the security services.
>
> Since I'm not going to pander to an insatiable blather of posts all ignoring anything that disagrees with your own personal views I'm not going to continue this completely pointless exchange of posts.
>
> I've had enough. Arguing with brick walls has to come to an end,

Well said. However, at least brick walls don't obfuscate every point and outright deny every point, so there is something you can say for them. Also there is more compassion in a brick than exercised by some here.

Ray Hall, Taree

I just listened for the first time to Jando’s k491 - I enjoyed it very much. Well worth a shot I’d say.

Just got back from a sort of vacation and bumped into this awful thread. I'm interested in what people think about Jando's pianism and would like to read more. I haven't listened to his Haydn in ages; should I go back?

People really tripped out on the Jewish thing. I'm interested that he was Jewish, since that means something in Hungary, where many Jews survived WWII, but many didn't. That piece of information would mean less to me for someone living in the US, but there's nothing wrong with mentioning it. Either way, it's small compared to his musical accomplishments.

On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 1:59:08 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
> I just listened for the first time to Jando’s k491 - I enjoyed it very much. Well worth a shot I’d say.