A friend of mine saw the following on the Openreach site:

"Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
digital phone line?
Upgrading your phone line shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. If
you're upgrading your broadband in the same order an engineer may need
to access the phone sockets within your premise. Your service provider
will advise you on what this will involve."

Neither of us can see how this can possibly be correct. How will the
incoming fibre optic cable be connected to the telephone(s) in the
house without access? I am assuming the householder will not be left
with a loose fibre optic cable and a leaflet through the letterbox
illustrating how to connect it up!

Scott wrote:

> A friend of mine saw the following on the Openreach site:
>
> "Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
> digital phone line?
> Upgrading your phone line shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
> home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. If
> you're upgrading your broadband in the same order an engineer may need
> to access the phone sockets within your premise. Your service provider
> will advise you on what this will involve."
>
> Neither of us can see how this can possibly be correct. How will the
> incoming fibre optic cable be connected to the telephone(s) in the
> house without access? I am assuming the householder will not be left
> with a loose fibre optic cable and a leaflet through the letterbox
> illustrating how to connect it up!

Digital voice does not require FTTP, or even VDSL/FTTC, it could be
delivered over ADSL

On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 18:42:05 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>Scott wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine saw the following on the Openreach site:
>>
>> "Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
>> digital phone line?
>> Upgrading your phone line shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
>> home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. If
>> you're upgrading your broadband in the same order an engineer may need
>> to access the phone sockets within your premise. Your service provider
>> will advise you on what this will involve."
>>
>> Neither of us can see how this can possibly be correct. How will the
>> incoming fibre optic cable be connected to the telephone(s) in the
>> house without access? I am assuming the householder will not be left
>> with a loose fibre optic cable and a leaflet through the letterbox
>> illustrating how to connect it up!
>
>Digital voice does not require FTTP, or even VDSL/FTTC, it could be
>delivered over ADSL

Sorry, I don't really follow this. If they are leaving the existing
line at the point of entry, how and where will they link it to the
fibre network they are supposed to be installing?

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 18:42:05 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Scott wrote:
>>
>>> A friend of mine saw the following on the Openreach site:
>>>
>>> "Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
>>> digital phone line?
>>> Upgrading your phone line shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
>>> home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. If
>>> you're upgrading your broadband in the same order an engineer may need
>>> to access the phone sockets within your premise. Your service provider
>>> will advise you on what this will involve."
>>>
>>> Neither of us can see how this can possibly be correct. How will the
>>> incoming fibre optic cable be connected to the telephone(s) in the
>>> house without access? I am assuming the householder will not be left
>>> with a loose fibre optic cable and a leaflet through the letterbox
>>> illustrating how to connect it up!
>>
>> Digital voice does not require FTTP, or even VDSL/FTTC, it could be
>> delivered over ADSL
>
> Sorry, I don't really follow this. If they are leaving the existing
> line at the point of entry, how and where will they link it to the
> fibre network they are supposed to be installing?
>

Digital phone line ≠ fibre. Of course there is a general move to fibre but
you said nothing about fibre in your post.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 2 Aug 2023 18:05:49 GMT, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 18:42:05 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Scott wrote:
>>>
>>>> A friend of mine saw the following on the Openreach site:
>>>>
>>>> "Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
>>>> digital phone line?
>>>> Upgrading your phone line shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
>>>> home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. If
>>>> you're upgrading your broadband in the same order an engineer may need
>>>> to access the phone sockets within your premise. Your service provider
>>>> will advise you on what this will involve."
>>>>
>>>> Neither of us can see how this can possibly be correct. How will the
>>>> incoming fibre optic cable be connected to the telephone(s) in the
>>>> house without access? I am assuming the householder will not be left
>>>> with a loose fibre optic cable and a leaflet through the letterbox
>>>> illustrating how to connect it up!
>>>
>>> Digital voice does not require FTTP, or even VDSL/FTTC, it could be
>>> delivered over ADSL
>>
>> Sorry, I don't really follow this. If they are leaving the existing
>> line at the point of entry, how and where will they link it to the
>> fibre network they are supposed to be installing?
>>
>Digital phone line ? fibre. Of course there is a general move to fibre but
>you said nothing about fibre in your post.

The context is that the wording was taken from an Openreach website.
We both (as ignorant members of the public) assumed this was a
reference to fibre. I'll ask my friend for the link to clarify.

On 02/08/2023 18:13, Scott wrote:
> A friend of mine saw the following on the Openreach site:
>
> "Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
> digital phone line?
> Upgrading your phone line shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
> home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. If
> you're upgrading your broadband in the same order an engineer may need
> to access the phone sockets within your premise. Your service provider
> will advise you on what this will involve."
>
> Neither of us can see how this can possibly be correct. How will the
> incoming fibre optic cable be connected to the telephone(s) in the
> house without access? I am assuming the householder will not be left
> with a loose fibre optic cable and a leaflet through the letterbox
> illustrating how to connect it up!

I think you didnt read it correctly. I have fibre. They installed some
of it inside, but to 'go digital all I need to do is plug a phone into
the socket on the fibre modem, or into a socket on my VOIP enabled route
--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On 02/08/2023 18:42, Andy Burns wrote:
> Scott wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine saw the following on the Openreach site:
>>
>> "Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
>> digital phone line?
>> Upgrading your phone line shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
>> home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. If
>> you're upgrading your broadband in the same order an engineer may need
>> to access the phone sockets within your premise. Your service provider
>> will advise you on what this will involve."
>>
>> Neither of us can see how this can possibly be correct.  How will the
>> incoming fibre optic cable be connected to the telephone(s) in the
>> house without access?  I am assuming the householder will not be left
>> with a loose fibre optic cable and a leaflet through the letterbox
>> illustrating how to connect it up!
>
> Digital voice does not require FTTP, or even VDSL/FTTC, it could be
> delivered over ADSL

And in my case some years back, it was!

--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On 02/08/2023 18:44, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 18:42:05 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Scott wrote:
>>
>>> A friend of mine saw the following on the Openreach site:
>>>
>>> "Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
>>> digital phone line?
>>> Upgrading your phone line shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
>>> home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. If
>>> you're upgrading your broadband in the same order an engineer may need
>>> to access the phone sockets within your premise. Your service provider
>>> will advise you on what this will involve."
>>>
>>> Neither of us can see how this can possibly be correct. How will the
>>> incoming fibre optic cable be connected to the telephone(s) in the
>>> house without access? I am assuming the householder will not be left
>>> with a loose fibre optic cable and a leaflet through the letterbox
>>> illustrating how to connect it up!
>>
>> Digital voice does not require FTTP, or even VDSL/FTTC, it could be
>> delivered over ADSL
>
> Sorry, I don't really follow this. If they are leaving the existing
> line at the point of entry, how and where will they link it to the
> fibre network they are supposed to be installing?
They may decide not to link the existing line at all

They may point to the socket on the fibre modem and say 'plug into that
instead of your existing master socket'

--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 02/08/2023 18:44, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 18:42:05 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Scott wrote:
>>>
>>>> A friend of mine saw the following on the Openreach site:
>>>>
>>>> "Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
>>>> digital phone line?
>>>> Upgrading your phone line shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
>>>> home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. If
>>>> you're upgrading your broadband in the same order an engineer may need
>>>> to access the phone sockets within your premise. Your service provider
>>>> will advise you on what this will involve."
>>>>
>>>> Neither of us can see how this can possibly be correct. How will the
>>>> incoming fibre optic cable be connected to the telephone(s) in the
>>>> house without access? I am assuming the householder will not be left
>>>> with a loose fibre optic cable and a leaflet through the letterbox
>>>> illustrating how to connect it up!
>>>
>>> Digital voice does not require FTTP, or even VDSL/FTTC, it could be
>>> delivered over ADSL
>>
>> Sorry, I don't really follow this. If they are leaving the existing
>> line at the point of entry, how and where will they link it to the
>> fibre network they are supposed to be installing?
> They may decide not to link the existing line at all
>
> They may point to the socket on the fibre modem and say 'plug into that
> instead of your existing master socket'
>

And they’re going to put that socket outside? The OP is querying how they
might provide an assumed fibre service without entering the house.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 02/08/2023 19:41, Tim+ wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 02/08/2023 18:44, Scott wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 18:42:05 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A friend of mine saw the following on the Openreach site:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
>>>>> digital phone line?
>>>>> Upgrading your phone line shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
>>>>> home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. If
>>>>> you're upgrading your broadband in the same order an engineer may need
>>>>> to access the phone sockets within your premise. Your service provider
>>>>> will advise you on what this will involve."
>>>>>
>>>>> Neither of us can see how this can possibly be correct. How will the
>>>>> incoming fibre optic cable be connected to the telephone(s) in the
>>>>> house without access? I am assuming the householder will not be left
>>>>> with a loose fibre optic cable and a leaflet through the letterbox
>>>>> illustrating how to connect it up!
>>>>
>>>> Digital voice does not require FTTP, or even VDSL/FTTC, it could be
>>>> delivered over ADSL
>>>
>>> Sorry, I don't really follow this. If they are leaving the existing
>>> line at the point of entry, how and where will they link it to the
>>> fibre network they are supposed to be installing?
>> They may decide not to link the existing line at all
>>
>> They may point to the socket on the fibre modem and say 'plug into that
>> instead of your existing master socket'
>>
>
> And they’re going to put that socket outside? The OP is querying how they
> might provide an assumed fibre service without entering the house.
>
No, he isn't.

That is the point.

He is querying about moving a phone from analog to digital *after* fibre
has been installed

"Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
digital phone line?
*Upgrading your phone line* shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. "

> Tim
>

--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 02/08/2023 19:41, Tim+ wrote:
> >
> > And they’re going to put that socket outside? The OP is querying how they
> > might provide an assumed fibre service without entering the house.
> >
> No, he isn't.
>
> That is the point.
>
> He is querying about moving a phone from analog to digital *after* fibre
> has been installed
>
> "Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
> digital phone line?
> *Upgrading your phone line* shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
> home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. "

No he isn't.

BT are talking about upgrading his phone to a 'digital phone line'. For the
rest of us that BT babble means VOIP, specifically their hosted VOIP
solution where you plug the phone into your router which acts as your ATA.

It doesn't say anything about installing fibre, since VOIP can work over
ADSL if needed. The OP has not said any fibre installation is happening,
he has assumed (wrongly) that fibre is a requirement.

For the majority of people that will mean no changes to their exterior
wiring, it is simply a 1 minute job to move the phone plug from the socket
on the wall to the socket on the router. (dealing with phone extension
wiring being something else to deal with)

Installing FTTP is separate, but in many cases the VOIP-ification will
happen years before that.

Theo

Scott wrote:

> The context is that the wording was taken from an Openreach website.
> We both (as ignorant members of the public) assumed this was a
> reference to fibre. I'll ask my friend for the link to clarify.

Don't feel too bad about it, recently plusnet sent out invites (I think
it's happening region by region) for people to attend a "roadshow" about
digital voice.

My neighbour asked yesterday if I'd got the invite to see when we were
getting FTTP (it'll be years away as we're not even on BT's roll-out
list here)

I explained that it wasn't about fibre, it was about phones.

Just checked the invite I received and literally the word "fibre"
doesn't appear in it even once, it only mentions retiring the analogue
phone service, so clearly he'd associated ending copper phone service
with getting fibre to the premises.

On 03/08/2023 08:45, Andy Burns wrote:
> Scott wrote:
>
>> The context is that the wording was taken from an Openreach website.
>> We both (as ignorant members of the public) assumed this was a
>> reference to fibre. I'll ask my friend for the link to clarify.
>
> Don't feel too bad about it, recently plusnet sent out invites (I think
> it's happening region by region) for people to attend a "roadshow" about
> digital voice.
>
> My neighbour asked yesterday if I'd got the invite to see when we were
> getting FTTP (it'll be years away as we're not even on BT's roll-out
> list here)
>
> I explained that it wasn't about fibre, it was about phones.
>
> Just checked the invite I received and literally the word "fibre"
> doesn't appear in it even once, it only mentions retiring the analogue
> phone service, so clearly he'd associated ending copper phone service
> with getting fibre to the premises.

Since it appears that many people do this, I can only assume it was the
intention of the FTTP/digital voice suppliers to link these when the
original idea(s?) were mentioned a few years ago. Now, at least in the
Public's mind, the two have been conflated to mean the same thing. It
doesn't matter whether the original linking was active or passive, it's
now what most seem to assume. Hence the OP's "Subject" and question in
the body of the message would appear to refer to the same thing.

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Since it appears that many people do this, I can only assume it was the
> intention of the FTTP/digital voice suppliers to link these when the
> original idea(s?) were mentioned a few years ago. Now, at least in the
> Public's mind, the two have been conflated to mean the same thing. It
> doesn't matter whether the original linking was active or passive, it's
> now what most seem to assume. Hence the OP's "Subject" and question in
> the body of the message would appear to refer to the same thing.

I think part of the problem is the suppliers wanting to hold on to the idea
of 'line rental' for phones, and hence BT calling it a 'digital phone line'
rather than a 'digital phone service'.

'Lines' are physical things involving diggers, 'services' can be software
and ephemeral. Physical things you have to keep paying for (like an energy
standing charge, and an awkward physical disconnection if you don't want
it), whereas services (ala Netflix) can come and go as you please. I
suspect BT et al really don't want you to think of your VOIP service in the
same category as Netflix, where you can downgrade / cancel it / switch to
Disney on a whim.

Theo

On 02/08/2023 18:13, Scott wrote:
> A friend of mine saw the following on the Openreach site:
>
> "Will my service provider need to access my premises if I switch to a
> digital phone line?
> Upgrading your phone line shouldn't normally need anyone to enter your
> home, unless you specifically ask your service provider for help. If
> you're upgrading your broadband in the same order an engineer may need
> to access the phone sockets within your premise. Your service provider
> will advise you on what this will involve."
>
> Neither of us can see how this can possibly be correct. How will the
> incoming fibre optic cable be connected to the telephone(s) in the
> house without access? I am assuming the householder will not be left
> with a loose fibre optic cable and a leaflet through the letterbox
> illustrating how to connect it up!

Its talking about migration to BT Digital Voice, not the upgrade of the
Internet to Fibre. That is why it says:-

"if you you're upgrading your broadband"

for BT Customers the swap to BT Digital Voice simply means plugging the
phone into the router rather than the wall socket. For those on an FTTC
(Fibre to the Cabinet) contract this allows BT to remove the copper back
to the exchange, or at least stop maintaining it.

For those on traditional ADSL it simplifies the upgrade to FTTC or FTTP
as the phone has already been migrated to a digital service. It also
allows BT to free up exchange space as it can remove the equipment
converting the analogue phone signal to digital for transmission on the
backbone network.

Of course if your phone is not plugged into the socket next to the
router it can be a problem.....

Dave

On 03/08/2023 08:45, Andy Burns wrote:
> Scott wrote:
>
>> The context is that the wording was taken from an Openreach website.
>> We both (as ignorant members of the public) assumed this was a
>> reference to fibre.  I'll ask my friend for the link to clarify.
>
> Don't feel too bad about it, recently plusnet sent out invites (I
> think it's happening region by region) for people to attend a
> "roadshow" about digital voice.
That's interesting, until now Plusnet have not had a 'VoIP' service ? 
Anyone moving to their FTTP offering has lost any 'voice' provision

On 03 Aug 2023 09:17:04 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Since it appears that many people do this, I can only assume it was the
>> intention of the FTTP/digital voice suppliers to link these when the
>> original idea(s?) were mentioned a few years ago. Now, at least in the
>> Public's mind, the two have been conflated to mean the same thing. It
>> doesn't matter whether the original linking was active or passive, it's
>> now what most seem to assume. Hence the OP's "Subject" and question in
>> the body of the message would appear to refer to the same thing.
>
>I think part of the problem is the suppliers wanting to hold on to the idea
>of 'line rental' for phones, and hence BT calling it a 'digital phone line'
>rather than a 'digital phone service'.
>
>'Lines' are physical things involving diggers, 'services' can be software
>and ephemeral. Physical things you have to keep paying for (like an energy
>standing charge, and an awkward physical disconnection if you don't want
>it), whereas services (ala Netflix) can come and go as you please. I
>suspect BT et al really don't want you to think of your VOIP service in the
>same category as Netflix, where you can downgrade / cancel it / switch to
>Disney on a whim.
>
Here is the full context:
https://www.openreach.com/upgrading-the-UK-to-digital-phone-lines

The use of the term 'upgraded to a digital phone line' rather than
'service' implies on a textual analysis a change to the line itself.
The juxtaposition with the words 'retiring the analogue phone network'
reinforces the idea that the existing lines will be removed. I accept
that fibre optic cable is not required for VOIP telephony. I suggest
many will conflate the change to digital with change to fibre.

If the existing copper line is to be left in place, it remains unclear
how and where this will be connected to the digital network. My
understanding (rightly or wrongly) is that the street cabinets will be
removed. Does the connector require a power supply? My line comes
from a telegraph pole at the bottom of the garden.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> Here is the full context:
> https://www.openreach.com/upgrading-the-UK-to-digital-phone-lines
>
> The use of the term 'upgraded to a digital phone line' rather than
> 'service' implies on a textual analysis a change to the line itself.
> The juxtaposition with the words 'retiring the analogue phone network'
> reinforces the idea that the existing lines will be removed. I accept
> that fibre optic cable is not required for VOIP telephony. I suggest
> many will conflate the change to digital with change to fibre.

I agree that's confusing. I suppose Openreach are in the business of
providing 'lines' and it's the ISPs like BT Retail who offer 'services'.
But in this case the transition is that transition from something requiring
physical plant (an analogue voice connection with line voltage, ring
currents and stuff) to none (a service over the broadband you already have).

> If the existing copper line is to be left in place, it remains unclear
> how and where this will be connected to the digital network. My
> understanding (rightly or wrongly) is that the street cabinets will be
> removed. Does the connector require a power supply? My line comes
> from a telegraph pole at the bottom of the garden.

Nothing will change in the physical connection: it is purely an internet
service, like email. The only difference is voice calls to your number
terminate on your ISP's VOIP server in a datacentre, rather than Openreach's
rack in your exchange. Whenever they feel like it OR can later decommission
the rack and stop paying to lease the exchange: the remaining plant will be
copper to your local green cabinet and fibre from there to a regional
switching centre.

In time FTTP will sweep away all the copper and copper infrastructure -
exchanges, green cabinets, leaving just poles, ducts and manholes. But that
is completely unreleated to the VOIP change.

Theo

On 03/08/2023 09:17, David Wade wrote:
> for BT Customers the swap to BT Digital Voice simply means plugging the

You mean BT broadband customers, not BT phone customers.

> phone into the router rather than the wall socket. For those on an FTTC
> (Fibre to the Cabinet) contract this allows BT to remove the copper back
> to the exchange, or at least stop maintaining it.

Which phone? I have two, one DECT, and one line powered, kept for
emergencies. What about the need to provide backup power if you don't
have both a mobile phone and good coverage indoors? What if the phone
and router are in different rooms?

I have an ADSL face plate on the master socket, so my minimum change,
would be something like:

disconnect speech wires from master socket;
add new slave socket;
add ATA;
add jumper from ATA to slave socket.

If someone is using microfilters on a slave socket, it will be even more
fun, as you will need to run a new cable from the old master socket to
the router.

Of course some may abandon the backup line powered phone, and use a DECT
base station next to the ATA. Many BT broadaband customers may take up
the BT offer of the integrated DECT base station and new handsets.

On 03/08/2023 08:41, Theo wrote:

>
> BT are talking about upgrading his phone to a 'digital phone line'. For the
> rest of us that BT babble means VOIP, specifically their hosted VOIP
> solution where you plug the phone into your router which acts as your ATA.
>
> It doesn't say anything about installing fibre, since VOIP can work over
> ADSL if needed. The OP has not said any fibre installation is happening,
> he has assumed (wrongly) that fibre is a requirement.
>
> For the majority of people that will mean no changes to their exterior
> wiring, it is simply a 1 minute job to move the phone plug from the socket
> on the wall to the socket on the router. (dealing with phone extension
> wiring being something else to deal with)
>

What happens to those of us whose ISP-supplied router doesn't have any
phone sockets?
--
Cheers,
Roger

Roger Mills wrote:

> What happens to those of us whose ISP-supplied router doesn't have any
> phone sockets?

If your ISP is your telephone provider, they'll send you one (nearer the
time) otherwise if you have different providers maybe your phone provide
will send you an ATA (or maybe recommend that you buy one)

PSTN/DECT phones are available with VoIP built-in, handline several SIP
numbers at once.

David Woolley wrote:

> David Wade wrote:
>
>> plugging the phone into the router rather than the wall socket.
>
> Which phone?  I have two,

Either/both just like now.

> one DECT, and one line powered, kept for emergencies. What about the
> need to provide backup power if you don't have both a mobile phone
> and good coverage indoors?

Your responsibility, perhaps some exception if you're on the vulnerable
register, but what BT may provide doesn't amount to much more than 4xAA
rechargeables.

> What if the phone and router are in different rooms?

<https://screwfix.com/p/phone-extension/17100>

I was in comms all of my working life but this thread still puzzles me.

We have a BT landline for phone only (it has <never> carries any form of
broadband) and get our broadband from VM. There is a phone on the VM
service which is fed by twisted pair simply because the broadband
service was cheaper if you had broadband <and> phone even if the phone
is never used apart from calling 150.

I am looking (possibly) at finding another broadband provider when my VM
contract ends just after Christmas - CityFibre are on the same pole. I
think £42/m for 50/5Mb is silly when I can have 150Mb both ways for well
less than £30!

So what happens. Will BT replace the drop wire with fibre or will they
demand that I move my phone service to VM or my new SP?

On 03/08/2023 16:36, Woody wrote:

> Will BT replace the drop wire with fibr
They'll probably "upgrade" your copper line to the slowest FTTC (or
ADSL) service they can, give you a router and tell you to plug your
phone into it.

You could port your BT number to a VoIP provider (such as voipfone) then
run that over your VM broadband, either with an ATA or a VoIP capable
phone (gigaset, yealink, etc) or just to an app on your mobile(s)

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Since it appears that many people do this, I can only assume it was the
>> intention of the FTTP/digital voice suppliers to link these when the
>> original idea(s?) were mentioned a few years ago. Now, at least in the
>> Public's mind, the two have been conflated to mean the same thing. It
>> doesn't matter whether the original linking was active or passive, it's
>> now what most seem to assume. Hence the OP's "Subject" and question in
>> the body of the message would appear to refer to the same thing.
>
> I think part of the problem is the suppliers wanting to hold on to the idea
> of 'line rental' for phones, and hence BT calling it a 'digital phone line'
> rather than a 'digital phone service'.
>
> 'Lines' are physical things involving diggers, 'services' can be software
> and ephemeral. Physical things you have to keep paying for (like an energy
> standing charge, and an awkward physical disconnection if you don't want
> it), whereas services (ala Netflix) can come and go as you please. I
> suspect BT et al really don't want you to think of your VOIP service in the
> same category as Netflix, where you can downgrade / cancel it / switch to
> Disney on a whim.
>
> Theo
>

Well put. They also want you to think you might lose your phone service if
you change ISP (a fear added to by the fact that you are now plugging your
phone into your ISP supplied router). Telecoms companies always want you to
bundle your TV/Internet/phone/mobile phone services because it makes it
much harder to leave and easier for them to push through price rises. All
my services are from different suppliers.