Is it not time we used this underused part of the spectrum for digital stuff
like they suggested some years ago. I know radios were made for this as I
found one abroad back when I could see. OK, so it was mono, but far better
at removing interference than AM analogue is and now we are closing the
stations seems a got time to exploit it again. Obviously fading could be an
issue, but most medium wave outlets were meant to be for local consumption,
and restricted bandwidth.
DRM anyone?
Brian

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On 01/03/2024 12:57, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Is it not time we used this underused part of the spectrum for digital stuff
> like they suggested some years ago.

Why not invest any savings from MW, LW and VHF FM close down in
completing DAB coverage. There are lots of receivers out there for DAB.

Who is going to want to invest in building DRM sites where there are
very few receivers and available and none in most cars.

How many years would it be before there was DRM coverage everywhere.

On 01/03/2024 12:57, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Is it not time we used this underused part of the spectrum for digital stuff
> like they suggested some years ago. I know radios were made for this as I
> found one abroad back when I could see. OK, so it was mono, but far better
> at removing interference than AM analogue is and now we are closing the
> stations seems a got time to exploit it again. Obviously fading could be an
> issue, but most medium wave outlets were meant to be for local consumption,

The MF band is no use to anyone now. Only 1 MHz of spectrum, no one is
going to bother with any broadcast system, and what other use can you
think of ?

On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 16:33:22 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 01/03/2024 12:57, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Is it not time we used this underused part of the spectrum for digital stuff
>> like they suggested some years ago. I know radios were made for this as I
>> found one abroad back when I could see. OK, so it was mono, but far better
>> at removing interference than AM analogue is and now we are closing the
>> stations seems a got time to exploit it again. Obviously fading could be an
>> issue, but most medium wave outlets were meant to be for local consumption,
>
>The MF band is no use to anyone now. Only 1 MHz of spectrum, no one is
>going to bother with any broadcast system, and what other use can you
>think of ?

It would be a lost learning opportunity if they closed it down. I
remember when it was possible to make a radio receiver with nothing
more than three components and a lot of wire, and apart from that
you'd only need a high impedance earphone to listen to it. It was
doing this that took away the mystery of it and made me realise that
if I could make things myself that really worked, maybe radio and
electronics could actually be within my understanding, so maybe it
would be worth reading more about it. It's difficult to exaggerate the
amount of encouragement a simple thing like this can give.

Nowadays you need to be fairly well educated already before you can
hope to understand anything, and most ordinary household technology is
beyond anybody's hope of being able to make one themselves without
fairly complicated subassemblies that someone else has already
created. I wonder how anybody learns about this stuff today?

Rod.

On 02/03/2024 10:17, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> It would be a lost learning opportunity if they closed it down.

Nice clear MW and LW bands for someone to build a small transmitter and
receive on a crystal set.

I was thinking of an on the cheap community station that Offcom does not
charge an arm and a leg for, or are we now going over to mobile broadband
supplied radio, which in effect is not free as you have to pay for the
connection. Brian

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"JMB99" <mb@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:urstmd$1acqb$1@dont-email.me...
> On 01/03/2024 12:57, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Is it not time we used this underused part of the spectrum for digital
>> stuff
>> like they suggested some years ago.
>
>
> Why not invest any savings from MW, LW and VHF FM close down in completing
> DAB coverage. There are lots of receivers out there for DAB.
>
> Who is going to want to invest in building DRM sites where there are very
> few receivers and available and none in most cars.
>
> How many years would it be before there was DRM coverage everywhere.
>
>

Other uses? Well part of it used to be used for analogue portable phones.

What about some kind of messaging system for large places, so the displays
of mostly text does not need any data connection, a bit like a proposal from
some years ago like a teletext system for large venues.
What about a lot of small weather stations in an area for example? I'm
sure there are many low bit rate digital uses. You could get a few FM
stations into the space of course.
Brian

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"Mark Carver" <mark@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:l4eeaiFlhuuU2@mid.individual.net...
> On 01/03/2024 12:57, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Is it not time we used this underused part of the spectrum for digital
>> stuff
>> like they suggested some years ago. I know radios were made for this as I
>> found one abroad back when I could see. OK, so it was mono, but far
>> better
>> at removing interference than AM analogue is and now we are closing the
>> stations seems a got time to exploit it again. Obviously fading could be
>> an
>> issue, but most medium wave outlets were meant to be for local
>> consumption,
>
> The MF band is no use to anyone now. Only 1 MHz of spectrum, no one is
> going to bother with any broadcast system, and what other use can you
> think of ?
>

Just like computer programming, they just don't learn about it. The old ZX81
could be assembled from a kit and came with a manual that allowed you to get
into the concepts of programming on your own. I learned a lot from that, and
also the Spectrum that followed it. It all went wrong when a simple to
understand programming language was not shipped with all computers. Basic
dialects could relatively easily be converted between machines if you knew a
bit about graphic resolution and colour manipulation that was possible. Then
companies made compilers for these and the program was much faster. They
had good sensible error messages and often flagged up upon text entry, where
the problem was.
With all the power in computers now, surely some very simple basic like
language could be shipped with all machines.
Brian

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"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:e6u5ui5poo9rflkehta947kmj5udp8f3p6@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 16:33:22 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 01/03/2024 12:57, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> Is it not time we used this underused part of the spectrum for digital
>>> stuff
>>> like they suggested some years ago. I know radios were made for this as
>>> I
>>> found one abroad back when I could see. OK, so it was mono, but far
>>> better
>>> at removing interference than AM analogue is and now we are closing the
>>> stations seems a got time to exploit it again. Obviously fading could be
>>> an
>>> issue, but most medium wave outlets were meant to be for local
>>> consumption,
>>
>>The MF band is no use to anyone now. Only 1 MHz of spectrum, no one is
>>going to bother with any broadcast system, and what other use can you
>>think of ?
>
> It would be a lost learning opportunity if they closed it down. I
> remember when it was possible to make a radio receiver with nothing
> more than three components and a lot of wire, and apart from that
> you'd only need a high impedance earphone to listen to it. It was
> doing this that took away the mystery of it and made me realise that
> if I could make things myself that really worked, maybe radio and
> electronics could actually be within my understanding, so maybe it
> would be worth reading more about it. It's difficult to exaggerate the
> amount of encouragement a simple thing like this can give.
>
> Nowadays you need to be fairly well educated already before you can
> hope to understand anything, and most ordinary household technology is
> beyond anybody's hope of being able to make one themselves without
> fairly complicated subassemblies that someone else has already
> created. I wonder how anybody learns about this stuff today?
>
> Rod.

Trouble is all you would hear these days is all the man made crap that comes
out of badly designed swithmode supplies and chargers, not to mention led
lamps and solar panel inverters.

You could actually make a crystal set from a bit of coal if it had the right
bits in it. A bit broad band, but often if you used a germanium transistor
and rectified the voltages in the aerial, it would work better as there was
a tiny amount of amplification around. I built loads of stuff like that when
I was young. Brian

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"JMB99" <mb@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:urv0dq$1r6fv$1@dont-email.me...
> On 02/03/2024 10:17, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> It would be a lost learning opportunity if they closed it down.
>
>
>
> Nice clear MW and LW bands for someone to build a small transmitter and
> receive on a crystal set.
>
>
>

On 02/03/2024 11:11, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Other uses? Well part of it used to be used for analogue portable phones.

Are they still used?

You used to hear some very "interesting" things from them. :-)

Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just like computer programming, they just don't learn about it. The old ZX81
> could be assembled from a kit and came with a manual that allowed you to get
> into the concepts of programming on your own. I learned a lot from that, and
> also the Spectrum that followed it. It all went wrong when a simple to
> understand programming language was not shipped with all computers. Basic
> dialects could relatively easily be converted between machines if you knew a
> bit about graphic resolution and colour manipulation that was possible. Then
> companies made compilers for these and the program was much faster. They
> had good sensible error messages and often flagged up upon text entry, where
> the problem was.
> With all the power in computers now, surely some very simple basic like
> language could be shipped with all machines.
> Brian
>

The modern version of this is the Raspberry Pi and its little offshoot the
Pi Pico. Both can be programmed in Python, which is an easy to use
interpreted language. There’s a whole world of add on boards to teach
electronics and a vast amount of beginner’s material, both on the web and
in printed book form. If compilers are your thing there’s any number of
languages available, all free of charge.

For those wanting to play radio it’s possible to use Software Defined
Radios

In message <urv14t$1rd21$1@dont-email.me> at Sat, 2 Mar 2024 11:04:58,
Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
>I was thinking of an on the cheap community station that Offcom does not
>charge an arm and a leg for, or are we now going over to mobile broadband
>supplied radio, which in effect is not free as you have to pay for the
>connection. Brian
>
The assumption is that everybody has, everywhere, an always-on
connection. I find it an infuriating assumption, but that's not going to
stop them assuming it; I can't think of anything that will - even a few
high-profile anti-discrimination cases won't, they'll probably if
anything have the opposite effect (of removing the requirement not to so
discriminate).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All humanity is divided into three classes: those who are immovable, those who
are movable, and those who move! - Benjamin Franklin

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <urv14t$1rd21$1@dont-email.me> at Sat, 2 Mar 2024 11:04:58,
> Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
>> I was thinking of an on the cheap community station that Offcom does not
>> charge an arm and a leg for, or are we now going over to mobile broadband
>> supplied radio, which in effect is not free as you have to pay for the
>> connection. Brian
>>
> The assumption is that everybody has, everywhere, an always-on
> connection. I find it an infuriating assumption, but that's not going to
> stop them assuming it; I can't think of anything that will - even a few
> high-profile anti-discrimination cases won't, they'll probably if
> anything have the opposite effect (of removing the requirement not to so
> discriminate).

Medium Wave is not the answer to any of these alleged issues though.

No most of them have died by now. They used vhf for the handset to the base
unit, and just the top end of medium wave for the other way. This worked
fine until we all got naff wall warts that put a hash all over the band.
Yes, you could clearly hear card numbers and security codes and the guy
chatting up multiple girls on the phone and even some lomewhat rude
conversations, whereas now of course you get foldk doing it walking down the
road as if they were at home. No I don't want to here how his wife does not
understand him like the caller does, or indeed on how many pints he had the
night before.
Brian

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"JMB99" <mb@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:urv62n$1sbbq$1@dont-email.me...
> On 02/03/2024 11:11, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Other uses? Well part of it used to be used for analogue portable phones.
>
>
>
> Are they still used?
>
> You used to hear some very "interesting" things from them. :-)

In message <us22o9$2hruk$1@dont-email.me> at Sun, 3 Mar 2024 14:50:49,
Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
>No most of them have died by now. They used vhf for the handset to the base
>unit, and just the top end of medium wave for the other way. This worked
[]
If you mean analogue fobile moans, I don't think it's that they've died,
but that the base stations they worked with - by modern parlance maybe
that'd be G1, or even G0 perhaps? - were I think turned off many years
ago. The 'phones probably _would_ have died too, if only the batteries -
I think we're talking long ago enough that a fair number of them were
NiCd batteries, which (on the whole) don't last well.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Once a mind is opened it is very hard to shut.

No I men the old analogue walk about phones. They simply used 49Mhz and just
at the high frequency end ofmedium wave. They had no protection against
eavesdroppers as they used narrow band FM.
I do also admit in its day, owning a Rabbit system With my base station up
high in the building I found in places I could get a mile out of them. The
idea was also that you had rbbit phone points around the place and you could
also communicate via those. For what it was, it worked for many years as a
cordless digital mobile. I don't know what protocols it used but the
frequencies were high. After a while phone got shut down of course as nobody
wanted to pay a connection rate to the company which ran them.

T
Are there any mobiles around now which can be used the house on a landline
and as a mobile?
Brian
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"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message
news:DhgZjOnuXM5lFwFd@255soft.uk...
> In message <us22o9$2hruk$1@dont-email.me> at Sun, 3 Mar 2024 14:50:49,
> Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
>>No most of them have died by now. They used vhf for the handset to the
>>base
>>unit, and just the top end of medium wave for the other way. This worked
> []
> If you mean analogue fobile moans, I don't think it's that they've died,
> but that the base stations they worked with - by modern parlance maybe
> that'd be G1, or even G0 perhaps? - were I think turned off many years
> ago. The 'phones probably _would_ have died too, if only the batteries - I
> think we're talking long ago enough that a fair number of them were NiCd
> batteries, which (on the whole) don't last well.
> --
> J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
>
> Once a mind is opened it is very hard to shut.

In article <us9fms$asjm$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com>
wrote:
> No I men the old analogue walk about phones. They simply used 49Mhz and
> just at the high frequency end ofmedium wave. They had no protection
> against eavesdroppers as they used narrow band FM. I do also admit in its
> day, owning a Rabbit system With my base station up high in the
> building I found in places I could get a mile out of them. The idea was
> also that you had rbbit phone points around the place and you could also
> communicate via those. For what it was, it worked for many years as a
> cordless digital mobile. I don't know what protocols it used but the
> frequencies were high. After a while phone got shut down of course as
> nobody wanted to pay a connection rate to the company which ran them.

> T Are there any mobiles around now which can be used the house on a
> landline and as a mobile? Brian

With landlines about to vanish this is not a concern. I am told that when I
move to VOIP, an app will allow me to pick up VOIP calls on my mobile.
Problem solved.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 06/03/2024 12:08, charles wrote:
> With landlines about to vanish this is not a concern. I am told that when I
> move to VOIP, an app will allow me to pick up VOIP calls on my mobile.
> Problem solved.
>
The app can already be installed on your mobile if you set up a VOIP
account on your broadband and have a router with a Wifi connection.

Landlines are not going to disappear. They will, though, no longer be
analogue with a digital overlay, but will be digital with an analogue
converter in the router.

If you do not have broadband via landline, you will get a router with a
converter installed, and you will plug your existing phone into the
router, and will carry on as before. You nay need to update your burglar
alarm and any personal alarm buttons you use to call help after a fall
or medical emergemcy.

If you have broadband and a modern alarm system, the only change you
will probably notice is that you need to plug your phone into the
router, not the socket on the wall.

It will be a good idea to install a standby or uninterruptable power
supply for the router.

If, like many people, you use only cell based comms, (Now cheaper than
landline and which are not locked to any particular location) you will
wonder what all the fuss is about.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In message <us9fms$asjm$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 6 Mar 2024 10:14:50,
Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
>No I men the old analogue walk about phones. They simply used 49Mhz and just
>at the high frequency end ofmedium wave. They had no protection against
>eavesdroppers as they used narrow band FM.

Ah yes. I think I still have one (though I usually use a corded 'phone).

> I do also admit in its day, owning a Rabbit system With my base station up
>high in the building I found in places I could get a mile out of them. The
>idea was also that you had rbbit phone points around the place and you could
>also communicate via those. For what it was, it worked for many years as a
>cordless digital mobile. I don't know what protocols it used but the
>frequencies were high. After a while phone got shut down of course as nobody
>wanted to pay a connection rate to the company which ran them.

I remember seeing the base stations at motorway services and the like. I
think they continued to work as a home cordless after they turned off
the network.
>
>T
>Are there any mobiles around now which can be used the house on a landline
>and as a mobile?
>Brian

Good question! I'm not aware of any. Though when we switch to VoIP, I
think it'll become moot, in that you'll be able to use your VoIPphone
wherever you can get internet (at call costs of whatever your VoIPphone
provider - who doesn't have to be your broadband provider, and in the
case of PlusNet certainly won't be). The one I looked at (VoIPfone) was
IIRR 1p/minute (or 7p/minute to UK mobiles!), though had packages
similar to mobile ones of so many minutes a month (to both land and
mobiles) for a monthly fee (e. g. IIRR 100 minutes for the fiver-a-month
one). (2p/min to USA, including USA mobiles, i. e. yes, outside monthly
package minutes, UK mobiles cost more to call than US ones.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The first draft was "flick me all over with ..." (RT Chtr 2020)

In message <l4rb8tFq7htU1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 6 Mar 2024
14:01:01, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
>On 06/03/2024 12:08, charles wrote:
>> With landlines about to vanish this is not a concern. I am told that when I
>> move to VOIP, an app will allow me to pick up VOIP calls on my mobile.
>> Problem solved.
>>
>The app can already be installed on your mobile if you set up a VOIP
>account on your broadband and have a router with a Wifi connection.

The VoIP account doesn't have to be with the same provider as your
broadband. (In the case of PlusNet, they're still saying they're not
offering it - they'll move you to BT, though [part of the same company,
though most of the time they operate separately] if you want.)
>
>Landlines are not going to disappear. They will, though, no longer be
>analogue with a digital overlay, but will be digital with an analogue
>converter in the router.

Assuming your broadband supplier (or you) supply a router with such a
converter built in. If not, you can get external converters that go
between your old 'phone and the router (some of them even support pulse
dialling!). Or, you can get a dedicated VoIP 'phone.
>
>If you do not have broadband via landline, you will get a router with a
>converter installed, and you will plug your existing phone into the
>router, and will carry on as before. You nay need to update your

PlusNet's "Hub 2" router has a (BT type!) socket on it, under a sticker
saying Digital Voice Customers Only; looks like they're not going to
enable it though, which seems silly to me!

>burglar alarm and any personal alarm buttons you use to call help after
>a fall or medical emergemcy.
>
>If you have broadband and a modern alarm system, the only change you
>will probably notice is that you need to plug your phone into the
>router, not the socket on the wall.

I think plugging the master plug from your extension wiring into the
router (via a converter if necessary) should make all your old kit work
via the new system, though it may be inconvenient if your router is not
currently near your master socket.
>
>It will be a good idea to install a standby or uninterruptable power
>supply for the router.

For the amount of power the average router uses, a UPS of the sort that
provides mains would be overkill, though all that is available at the
moment; those with sufficient technical skill should be able to rig up
something with rechargeable cells (which after all is all that's in a
UPS, other than mains-to-DC and DC-to-mains converters).
>
>If, like many people, you use only cell based comms, (Now cheaper than
>landline and which are not locked to any particular location) you will
>wonder what all the fuss is about.
>
Only cheaper than landline, for some people, if they pay a monthly
mobile fee anyway. I have anytime landline calls with my broadband and
am _not_ paying extra; however, may be because I'm a long-time customer.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The first draft was "flick me all over with ..." (RT Chtr 2020)

On 06/03/2024 15:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <l4rb8tFq7htU1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 6 Mar 2024
> 14:01:01, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes

>> If, like many people, you use only cell based comms, (Now cheaper than
>> landline and which are not locked to any particular location) you will
>> wonder what all the fuss is about.
>>
> Only cheaper than landline, for some people, if they pay a monthly
> mobile fee anyway. I have anytime landline calls with my broadband and
> am _not_ paying extra; however, may be because I'm a long-time customer.

I have unlimited calls, text and broadband on my pay monthly cell
connection, and it costs me about half the price that an equivalent
landline package would.

If your cell is costing you more per month than a landline, then as most
pay as you use it packages require a minimum top up every month anyway,
you may as well go for the unlimited contract option.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In message <l4rltmFrqh2U1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 6 Mar 2024
17:02:46, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
>On 06/03/2024 15:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <l4rb8tFq7htU1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 6 Mar 2024
>> 14:01:01, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
>
>>> If, like many people, you use only cell based comms, (Now cheaper than
>>> landline and which are not locked to any particular location) you will
>>> wonder what all the fuss is about.
>>>
>> Only cheaper than landline, for some people, if they pay a monthly
>> mobile fee anyway. I have anytime landline calls with my broadband and
>> am _not_ paying extra; however, may be because I'm a long-time customer.
>
>I have unlimited calls, text and broadband on my pay monthly cell
>connection, and it costs me about half the price that an equivalent
>landline package would.

Interesting! Who are you with? Do you find broadband-via-mobile is
adequate technically (speed, reliability, other)? How much _do_ you pay?
(Obviously feel free not to answer that - or any of this of course!)
>
>If your cell is costing you more per month than a landline, then as
>most pay as you use it packages require a minimum top up every month
>anyway, you may as well go for the unlimited contract option.
>
Indeed; it hearkens back to the old dial-up days, when the knowledge
that every minute was costing you inhibited use. You say "than a
landline" - I don't consider that I pay separately for my landline, just
all as part of my broadband; last real haggle on that was switching from
evening-and-weekend-calls-free to anytime calls, in return for a halving
of broadband speed, which was fine by me and I don't notice it: I'm the
only user in this household and don't download HD movies, and normally
am unaware of any broadband speed limit. YMMV, especially if you're a
multi-user household.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I know people who worry more about the health consequences of drinking a coffee
at breakfast than a bottle of urine at dinner
- Revd Richard Cole, RT 2021/7/3-9

On 06/03/2024 22:52, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

>> I have unlimited calls, text and broadband on my pay monthly cell
>> connection, and it costs me about half the price that an equivalent
>> landline package would.
>
> Interesting! Who are you with? Do you find broadband-via-mobile is
> adequate technically (speed, reliability, other)? How much _do_ you pay?
> (Obviously feel free not to answer that - or any of this of course!)

I have SIM my accounts with EE and Vodafone at about thirty quid a month
each. Netter deals are probably available, but ICBA looking. The phine
cost me £160, and the router cost me £30. If I were willing to put up
with losing the internet on one account while talking on the other, it
takes two SIMs. It happily carries on working if I use the BB account on
the SIM I'm talking via.

Last time I asked the question, a landline was about £55.

For the majority of the time I can stream 2K definition video on either
accounts. Occasionally, one of them drops out.
>>
>> If your cell is costing you more per month than a landline, then as
>> most pay as you use it packages require a minimum top up every month
>> anyway, you may as well go for the unlimited contract option.
>>
> Indeed; it hearkens back to the old dial-up days, when the knowledge
> that every minute was costing you inhibited use. You say "than a
> landline" - I don't consider that I pay separately for my landline, just
> all as part of my broadband;

I remember maxing out my 20GB landline data allowance on the dim and
distant past. I also remember uploading and downloading stuff via 2G
cellphone at 9600 baud, and paying by the minute.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

John Williamson wrote:
> Last time I asked the question, a landline was about £55.
Plusnet currently costs me £26.20/m for line rental, off-peak calls and
80/20Mb broadband (from next month, the CPI+3.9% will see it rise to £28.37)

On 06/03/2024 14:01, John Williamson wrote:
> If, like many people, you use only cell based comms, (Now cheaper than
> landline and which are not locked to any particular location) you will
> wonder what all the fuss is about.

Any listener to radio phone-ins and radio news programmes will know just
reliable VOIP is!