A rant I've probably had before, but, especially when my PC has just
started up, it seems to be doing loads of shit even though it's
actually doing nothing, from my POV.

I can understand needing to download new AV patterns, or urgent fixes
for something *really* broken. But. It's powered up. The screen
clearly works. The mouse and keyboard clearly work. The Internet
clearly works, else it wouldn't be updating stuff. I guess it has to
load script interpreters etc. into memory.

It has a 3.4GHz processor.

So how the fuck can it be too busy to actually carry out any user
tasks for maybe half a miniute? And even many minutes after boot-up,
it can still freeze for seconds at a time while apparently rewriting
the entire hard driver?

What the actual FUCK can it be doing that's so important that it
cannot carry out the simplest user task?

--

-Pip

Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote:
> A rant I've probably had before, but, especially when my PC has just
> started up, it seems to be doing loads of shit even though it's
> actually doing nothing, from my POV.
>
> I can understand needing to download new AV patterns, or urgent fixes
> for something *really* broken. But. It's powered up. The screen
> clearly works. The mouse and keyboard clearly work. The Internet
> clearly works, else it wouldn't be updating stuff. I guess it has to
> load script interpreters etc. into memory.
>
> It has a 3.4GHz processor.
>
> So how the fuck can it be too busy to actually carry out any user
> tasks for maybe half a miniute? And even many minutes after boot-up,
> it can still freeze for seconds at a time while apparently rewriting
> the entire hard driver?
>
> What the actual FUCK can it be doing that's so important that it
> cannot carry out the simplest user task?

Amen brother. The highest priority task of all should be responding
to user input. All background activities should be lower priority.

From my POV, most of those things it is loading on power up are nice
to have in memory eventually, presumably to make loading other things
faster. But it doesn't really need to load them all before I've had a
chance to execute a few mouse clicks/keypresses to tell the computer
what's important to me _right now_. Once I've got my document loaded
and my squidgy jello processor is absorbing it, maybe then would be
a good time to resume doing all that other housekeeping/prep stuff.

In other words, e.g., do I really need some Adobe speeder-upper
loaded at boot time, every boot, just to save a few seconds when
I later open a PDF? Just load the libraries/whatever IF and WHEN I
decide to open a PDF and not before...

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Pipl wrote:
> A rant I've probably had before, but, especially when my PC has just
> started up, it seems to be doing loads of shit even though it's
> actually doing nothing, from my POV.
>
> So how the fuck can it be too busy to actually carry out any user
> tasks for maybe half a miniute? And even many minutes after boot-up,
> it can still freeze for seconds at a time while apparently rewriting
> the entire hard driver?
>
> What the actual FUCK can it be doing that's so important that it
> cannot carry out the simplest user task?

How often are you booting? I do it like once a month, so 30 seconds isn't much to lose.

On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 11:42:57 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Pipl wrote:
>> A rant I've probably had before, but, especially when my PC has just
>> started up, it seems to be doing loads of shit even though it's
>> actually doing nothing, from my POV.
>>
>> So how the fuck can it be too busy to actually carry out any user
>> tasks for maybe half a miniute? And even many minutes after boot-up,
>> it can still freeze for seconds at a time while apparently rewriting
>> the entire hard driver?
>>
>> What the actual FUCK can it be doing that's so important that it
>> cannot carry out the simplest user task?
>
>How often are you booting? I do it like once a month, so 30 seconds isn't much to lose.

I usually shut it down completely each day. I could probably be less
meticulous about this, but i't partly a dislike of wasting power
unnecessarily.

--

-Pip

Pipl wrote:
> ogden wrote:
> >Pipl wrote:
> >> So how the fuck can it be too busy to actually carry out any user
> >> tasks for maybe half a miniute? And even many minutes after boot-up,
> >> it can still freeze for seconds at a time while apparently rewriting
> >> the entire hard driver?
> >>
> >> What the actual FUCK can it be doing that's so important that it
> >> cannot carry out the simplest user task?
> >
> >How often are you booting? I do it like once a month, so 30 seconds isn't much to lose.
>
> I usually shut it down completely each day. I could probably be less
> meticulous about this, but i't partly a dislike of wasting power
> unnecessarily.

Just hit suspend. Or hibernate if you want it drawing zero juice. But shutting down? It's 2023.

On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 11:54:47 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Pipl wrote:
>> ogden wrote:
>> >Pipl wrote:
>> >> So how the fuck can it be too busy to actually carry out any user
>> >> tasks for maybe half a miniute? And even many minutes after boot-up,
>> >> it can still freeze for seconds at a time while apparently rewriting
>> >> the entire hard driver?
>> >>
>> >> What the actual FUCK can it be doing that's so important that it
>> >> cannot carry out the simplest user task?
>> >
>> >How often are you booting? I do it like once a month, so 30 seconds isn't much to lose.
>>
>> I usually shut it down completely each day. I could probably be less
>> meticulous about this, but i't partly a dislike of wasting power
>> unnecessarily.
>
>Just hit suspend. Or hibernate if you want it drawing zero juice. But shutting down? It's 2023.

This is a desktop. "Sleep" is the only non-Off function that's
immediately available. Maybe other modes can be enabled.

Even so, speaking as someone who's spent a considerable chunk of his
life working on embedded stuff, WTAF is it *doing*?

--

-Pip

On 29/09/2023 19:54, ogden wrote:
> Pipl wrote:
>> ogden wrote:
>>> Pipl wrote:
>>>> So how the fuck can it be too busy to actually carry out any user
>>>> tasks for maybe half a miniute? And even many minutes after boot-up,
>>>> it can still freeze for seconds at a time while apparently rewriting
>>>> the entire hard driver?
>>>>
>>>> What the actual FUCK can it be doing that's so important that it
>>>> cannot carry out the simplest user task?
>>>
>>> How often are you booting? I do it like once a month, so 30 seconds isn't much to lose.
>>
>> I usually shut it down completely each day. I could probably be less
>> meticulous about this, but i't partly a dislike of wasting power
>> unnecessarily.
>
> Just hit suspend. Or hibernate if you want it drawing zero juice. But shutting down? It's 2023.
>
Not everything up-to-date is fit-for purpose.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Pipl wrote:
> ogden wrote:
> >Pipl wrote:
> >> ogden wrote:
> >> >Pipl wrote:
> >> >> So how the fuck can it be too busy to actually carry out any user
> >> >> tasks for maybe half a miniute? And even many minutes after boot-up,
> >> >> it can still freeze for seconds at a time while apparently rewriting
> >> >> the entire hard driver?
> >> >>
> >> >> What the actual FUCK can it be doing that's so important that it
> >> >> cannot carry out the simplest user task?
> >> >
> >> >How often are you booting? I do it like once a month, so 30 seconds isn't much to lose.
> >>
> >> I usually shut it down completely each day. I could probably be less
> >> meticulous about this, but i't partly a dislike of wasting power
> >> unnecessarily.
> >
> >Just hit suspend. Or hibernate if you want it drawing zero juice. But shutting down? It's 2023.
>
> This is a desktop. "Sleep" is the only non-Off function that's
> immediately available. Maybe other modes can be enabled.

Hibernate should be in there somewhere. Look in power options.

> Even so, speaking as someone who's spent a considerable chunk of his
> life working on embedded stuff, WTAF is it *doing*?

For thirty whole seconds? Windows used to take a lot longer than that to boot, and people found it annoying. So now it brings up the UI faster, and does all the other boot-time stuff in the background, which makes it slow for a bit at first, which you find annoying.

Turn it on and *then* make a cuppa, rather than the other way round.

On 30/09/2023 03:08 Pipl penned these words:

>
> Even so, speaking as someone who's spent a considerable chunk of his
> life working on embedded stuff, WTAF is it *doing*?
>

When I investigated slow to boot it was mapping the network drives that seemed
to be hanging everything else. I postponed that for 30 seconds and bingo.
Probably interrupting other processes which were then interrupting the mapping
as now if I check the network drives map in a couple of seconds once the PC is up.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

ogden wrote:

> Pipl wrote:
> > ogden wrote:

<SNIP>

> > Even so, speaking as someone who's spent a considerable chunk of
> > his life working on embedded stuff, WTAF is it doing?
>
> For thirty whole seconds? Windows used to take a lot longer than that
> to boot, and people found it annoying. So now it brings up the UI
> faster, and does all the other boot-time stuff in the background,
> which makes it slow for a bit at first, which you find annoying.
>
> Turn it on and then make a cuppa, rather than the other way round.

When I've investigated this in the past it seems to be either Windows
update which is unavoidable if you want to use Windows I suppose or
some kind of "search index" activity. I suppose I could investigate
further but a cuppa sounds like an excellent solution.
Are you sure it's not some third-party software loading itself and
assorted baggage just so it is locked and loaded, ready to go in a
flash should you desire to read a PDF or adjust the sound and video
settings? Adobe (as somebody else mentioned) is good at this. If so,
hunt the fuckers down and kill or remove 'em, at least from start up.

--

Geoff
NTV650

On 30/09/2023 09:17, GeoffC wrote:
> ogden wrote:
>
>> Pipl wrote:
>>> ogden wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>>> Even so, speaking as someone who's spent a considerable chunk of
>>> his life working on embedded stuff, WTAF is it doing?
>>
>> For thirty whole seconds? Windows used to take a lot longer than that
>> to boot, and people found it annoying. So now it brings up the UI
>> faster, and does all the other boot-time stuff in the background,
>> which makes it slow for a bit at first, which you find annoying.
>>
>> Turn it on and then make a cuppa, rather than the other way round.
>
> When I've investigated this in the past it seems to be either Windows
> update which is unavoidable if you want to use Windows I suppose or
> some kind of "search index" activity. I suppose I could investigate
> further but a cuppa sounds like an excellent solution.
> Are you sure it's not some third-party software loading itself and
> assorted baggage just so it is locked and loaded, ready to go in a
> flash should you desire to read a PDF or adjust the sound and video
> settings? Adobe (as somebody else mentioned) is good at this. If so,
> hunt the fuckers down and kill or remove 'em, at least from start up.

The sysinternals tools are your friends here:

<https://live.sysinternals.com/>

Start with <https://live.sysinternals.com/readme.txt> and
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/sysinternals/>

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:11:37 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Pipl wrote:
>> This is a desktop. "Sleep" is the only non-Off function that's
>> immediately available. Maybe other modes can be enabled.
>
>Hibernate should be in there somewhere. Look in power options.

Ah, ta, found it buried in some "other settings" page (I think) under
a list of options that had to be enabled.

>> Even so, speaking as someone who's spent a considerable chunk of his
>> life working on embedded stuff, WTAF is it *doing*?
>
>For thirty whole seconds? Windows used to take a lot longer than that to boot, and people found it annoying.

Not thirty seconds - a couple of minutes at least. And long after it
boots, it just randomly freezes for 10-15 seconds rattling the HDD
because of "System", according to Task Manager when it did it just
now.

> So now it brings up the UI faster, and does all the other boot-time stuff in the background, which makes it slow for a bit at first, which you find annoying.

Not much good if you still can't actually use it.

>Turn it on and *then* make a cuppa, rather than the other way round.

Heh, I boot it up which is, as you say, quite quick, log in, then go
away to do other stuff for a couple of minutes. It's still dog slow.

--

-Pip

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:37:11 +0800, Boots
<news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:

>On 30/09/2023 03:08 Pipl penned these words:
>
>>
>> Even so, speaking as someone who's spent a considerable chunk of his
>> life working on embedded stuff, WTAF is it *doing*?
>>
>
>When I investigated slow to boot it was mapping the network drives that seemed
>to be hanging everything else. I postponed that for 30 seconds and bingo.
>Probably interrupting other processes which were then interrupting the mapping
>as now if I check the network drives map in a couple of seconds once the PC is up.

Thanks for the suggestion, but AFAIK it has no network drives.

--

-Pip

Bruce Horrocks wrote:

<SNIP>

>
> The sysinternals tools are your friends here:
>
> <https://live.sysinternals.com/>
>
> Start with <https://live.sysinternals.com/readme.txt> and
> <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/sysinternals/>

Thanks, that looks interesting, I shall have a detailed look later.

--

Geoff
NTV650

Pipl wrote:

<SNIP>

> And long after it
> boots, it just randomly freezes for 10-15 seconds rattling the HDD

That's yer problem right there guv.
Replace that shitty old HDD with a modern SSD (even just a modestly
small one for a Windows system partition) and relegate the HDD to
storing files etc.
That should speed things up considerably.

--

Geoff
NTV650

On 30/09/2023 12:20, GeoffC wrote:
> Pipl wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> And long after it
>> boots, it just randomly freezes for 10-15 seconds rattling the HDD
>
>
> That's yer problem right there guv.
> Replace that shitty old HDD with a modern SSD (even just a modestly
> small one for a Windows system partition) and relegate the HDD to
> storing files etc.
> That should speed things up considerably.
>
>

This. Plus only allow updates when you want them and keep it switched on
otherwise.

My 3.30 GHz i5 200 Gb SSD and 32Gb RAM Dell gets the occasionally
reboot if fiddling with software that requires it (like a WSL
installation or similar), but otherwise the only time it gets switched
off is when I go on holiday.

--
Moto Morini 2C/375
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
Honda CB250RS (Not Waynetta!)
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

Pete Fisher <peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> My 3.30 GHz i5 200 Gb SSD and 32Gb RAM Dell gets the occasionally
> reboot if fiddling with software that requires it (like a WSL
> installation or similar), but otherwise the only time it gets switched
> off is when I go on holiday.

Huh. When I go on holiday, I make sure my one and only Windows PC is
switched on so I can access it with Chrome Remote Desktop from my
Chromebook, if there's a site I need to visit that only works with
a browser under Windows or is geofenced to the USA. Even if it's
asleep or 'off' (power supply is always providing +5V standby to the
ethernet interface) I can usually prod it to life with etherwake from
one of my Raspberry Pi machines that are always on and running VNC
Server... This has come in handy a few times,

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 30/09/2023 15:12, Mark Olson wrote:
> Pete Fisher <peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> My 3.30 GHz i5 200 Gb SSD and 32Gb RAM Dell gets the occasionally
>> reboot if fiddling with software that requires it (like a WSL
>> installation or similar), but otherwise the only time it gets switched
>> off is when I go on holiday.
>
> Huh. When I go on holiday, I make sure my one and only Windows PC is
> switched on so I can access it with Chrome Remote Desktop from my
> Chromebook, if there's a site I need to visit that only works with
> a browser under Windows or is geofenced to the USA. Even if it's
> asleep or 'off' (power supply is always providing +5V standby to the
> ethernet interface) I can usually prod it to life with etherwake from
> one of my Raspberry Pi machines that are always on and running VNC
> Server... This has come in handy a few times,
>

I hear what you say.

Having heard one or two stories about unattended electrical items,
however, I tend to run round switching everything off except the freezer
if away for a while. Also the gas and the water.

--
Moto Morini 2C/375
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
Honda CB250RS (Not Waynetta!)
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

Pete Fisher <peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 30/09/2023 15:12, Mark Olson wrote:
>> Pete Fisher <peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> My 3.30 GHz i5 200 Gb SSD and 32Gb RAM Dell gets the occasionally
>>> reboot if fiddling with software that requires it (like a WSL
>>> installation or similar), but otherwise the only time it gets switched
>>> off is when I go on holiday.
>>
>> Huh. When I go on holiday, I make sure my one and only Windows PC is
>> switched on so I can access it with Chrome Remote Desktop from my
>> Chromebook, if there's a site I need to visit that only works with
>> a browser under Windows or is geofenced to the USA. Even if it's
>> asleep or 'off' (power supply is always providing +5V standby to the
>> ethernet interface) I can usually prod it to life with etherwake from
>> one of my Raspberry Pi machines that are always on and running VNC
>> Server... This has come in handy a few times,
>>
>
> I hear what you say.
>
> Having heard one or two stories about unattended electrical items,
> however, I tend to run round switching everything off except the freezer
> if away for a while. Also the gas and the water.

Someday, the smart home tech will become so ubiquitous as to make
these worries go away. I do admit to having a USB webcam plugged into
a RPi that I can use to verify no one's broken into my garage.

Hell, I even have two POE security cameras that I bought a few years
back, intending to set up a motion activated security system. They're
still safely in their boxes awaiting a sufficiency of circular tuits.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On Saturday, 30 September 2023 at 16:28:47 UTC+1, Mark Olson wrote:
> Hell, I even have two POE security cameras that I bought a few years
> back, intending to set up a motion activated security system. They're
> still safely in their boxes awaiting a sufficiency of circular tuits.

I've got a couple, mounted on my garage covering the access to my drive
and my house. Not PoE though. Simple to install and run on a Synology
NAS. Maybe some deterrent? Tempted to put a couple more up to cover
the rear of my house, but that's really only because I don't have enough to
do.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 11:30:33 +0100, Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote:

> And long after it boots, it just randomly freezes for 10-15 seconds
> rattling the HDD because of "System", according to Task Manager when
> it did it just now.

Well, that's it! It's "short on memory (RAM)." This sounds
suspiciously as though something is buzzing around touching a LOT of
files and swamping your swap space. The obvious remedy is to provide
more swap space (a LOT) for it to buzz around in. RAM is cheap,
innit?

As for things that buzz around, I'm inclined always to point the
finger at anti-virus software as a prime non-productive resource hog.
Listen! You only need an anti-virus diagnosis occasionally, and you
can lessen the need by not doing anything particularly foolish on the
Internet. ... so first of all limit your browsing and don't expand
eMail attachments. Disable rich-text or *.html rendition or whatever
they call it in your eMail User Agent (MUA). Then, after you've
reduced your risk profile, SHUT OFF ALL THE AUTOMATIC VIRUS SCANNING!

You can still invoke various and sundry virus scans of your hard
drive, specific Web pages, downloaded files, and your eMail cache
manually whenever you feel like it. While the machine clicks away,
have that cup of [hot beverage of choice]. When it takes forever, it
won't come as a surprise.

Then there's the matter of O/S updates. FULL DISCLOSURE: I'm not a
Windows luser. I'm a Linux luser. I download operating-system and
utility updates automatically for sure, but I don't apply them
automatically. Applying updates automagically behind the scenes can
of course cause the scenery to freeze. That this comes as a surprise
to most Windows users has always mystified me. DON'T DO THAT!

--
Worst Case

Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, 30 September 2023 at 16:28:47 UTC+1, Mark Olson wrote:
>
>> Hell, I even have two POE security cameras that I bought a few years
>> back, intending to set up a motion activated security system. They're
>> still safely in their boxes awaiting a sufficiency of circular tuits.
>
> I've got a couple, mounted on my garage covering the access to my drive
> and my house. Not PoE though. Simple to install and run on a Synology
> NAS. Maybe some deterrent? Tempted to put a couple more up to cover
> the rear of my house, but that's really only because I don't have enough to
> do.

This OSINT lark is getting easier and easier.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 30/09/2023 15:12, Mark Olson wrote:
> Pete Fisher <peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> My 3.30 GHz i5 200 Gb SSD and 32Gb RAM Dell gets the occasionally
>> reboot if fiddling with software that requires it (like a WSL
>> installation or similar), but otherwise the only time it gets switched
>> off is when I go on holiday.
>
> Huh. When I go on holiday, I make sure my one and only Windows PC is
> switched on so I can access it with Chrome Remote Desktop from my
> Chromebook, if there's a site I need to visit that only works with
> a browser under Windows or is geofenced to the USA. Even if it's
> asleep or 'off' (power supply is always providing +5V standby to the
> ethernet interface) I can usually prod it to life with etherwake from
> one of my Raspberry Pi machines that are always on and running VNC
> Server... This has come in handy a few times,
>
<Ad>

Brand new (unwanted) Chromebook for trade or WHY? Bro' got it for me
(with my money) while I was in hospital and I immediately went online to
load a Linux distro. Bloody thing refused - just sulked. Prolly two
years old now, but pristine but for that short poking of keys.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 30/09/2023 22:28 Pete Fisher penned these words:
> On 30/09/2023 15:12, Mark Olson wrote:
>> Pete Fisher <peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>>
>> Huh. When I go on holiday, I make sure my one and only Windows PC is
>> switched on so I can access it with Chrome Remote Desktop from my
>> Chromebook,

I tried with WOL but it stopped working, bought a smart plug and set the desktop
to wake on power up. Access via a WireGuard VPN on the router and toggle the
power on and I have after a short while remote desktop via VPN/VNC.

>
> I hear what you say.
>
> Having heard one or two stories about unattended electrical items,
> however, I tend to run round switching everything off except the freezer
> if away for a while. Also the gas and the water.

I leave the NAS and the separate DNS server and the router running, their draw
is small and they're all on the same UPS. The PC is off until required, I turn
of the other stuff with parasitic draw that's not needed like TV, BluRay,
streaming sticks. I do turn off the water too, a colleague came back to a
wrecked house after a pipe burst, there's obviously whatever is in the tanks but
that's small beer compared to the mains.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On 30/09/2023 23:28 Mark Olson penned these words:

>
> Someday, the smart home tech will become so ubiquitous as to make
> these worries go away. I do admit to having a USB webcam plugged into
> a RPi that I can use to verify no one's broken into my garage.

Apart from the PC smart plug and a three way smart strip my other recent
purchase was a smart switch for the water heater in the ensuite. I only really
wanted a switch with a timer, either I turned it on and forgot or didn't turn it
on. Turns out it's hard to find something so simple so I ended up with a WiFi
enabled switch which has a timer function. The remote access comes in handy very
occasionally, when we got home last week I was able to turn the heater on as I
got in the cab at the airport so I could have a shower when I got home.

>
> Hell, I even have two POE security cameras that I bought a few years
> back, intending to set up a motion activated security system. They're
> still safely in their boxes awaiting a sufficiency of circular tuits.
>

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"