On 30/10/2023 11:34, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 30/10/2023 11:02, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
>> On 30/10/2023 05:17, sweller wrote:
>>> ogden wrote:
>>>
>>>> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I used to
>>>> be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm tapping my
>>>> phone these days.
>>>
>>> I used to sigh heavily if anyone tried to pay for drinks in a pub with
>>> a card, now the staff sigh heavily if you try to pay cash.  As it means
>>> they have to walk to the till.
>>>
>> But they have to walk to the till anyway to check the price - even tho
>> it is still the same as the last 500 pints they have sold!
> Wow, shit pub with low choice?

No, plenty of choice, just common pricing for all real ales :-)

Seems to happen in most non-local pubs though too.

Chris

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 30/10/2023 11:26, wessie wrote:
> "chrisnd @ukrm" <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote in news:kq9gq2FlekjU1
> @mid.individual.net:
>
>> On 30/10/2023 05:17, sweller wrote:
>>> ogden wrote:
>>>
>>>> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I used to
>>>> be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm tapping my
>>>> phone these days.
>>>
>>> I used to sigh heavily if anyone tried to pay for drinks in a pub with
>>> a card, now the staff sigh heavily if you try to pay cash. As it means
>>> they have to walk to the till.
>>>
>> But they have to walk to the till anyway to check the price - even tho
>> it is still the same as the last 500 pints they have sold!
>>
>> Chris
>
> plus the card reader is going to be linked to the till in most pubs, your
> order is keyed into the till before drinks are poured and you have the
> option to pay with contactless before your drinks are put in front of you.
> A significant productivity enhancement for the server and buyer.

That assumes that the person in the queue in front of you knows what
they are going to order by the time they reach the bar AND that they
will be able to remember more than one at a time as they are poured![1]

Neither of these seem to happen much round here[2]

Chris
[1] Both of which require me to have great self-control
[2] East Midlands
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On Monday, 30 October 2023 at 12:02:51 UTC, YTC#1 wrote:

> [1] All "one for yourself" goes to staff, 50p added to total.

All 'one for yourself' now also has to (surely) go 'through the books' rather
than being a cash transaction?

On 30/10/2023 12:50, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
> On 30/10/2023 11:34, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 30/10/2023 11:02, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
>>> On 30/10/2023 05:17, sweller wrote:
>>>> ogden wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I used to
>>>>> be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm tapping my
>>>>> phone these days.
>>>>
>>>> I used to sigh heavily if anyone tried to pay for drinks in a pub with
>>>> a card, now the staff sigh heavily if you try to pay cash.  As it means
>>>> they have to walk to the till.
>>>>
>>> But they have to walk to the till anyway to check the price - even
>>> tho it is still the same as the last 500 pints they have sold!
>> Wow, shit pub with low choice?
>
> No, plenty of choice, just common pricing for all real ales :-)

Either the landlord s soaking up the extra tax on high ABV, or you are.
Or they just sell piss? :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 12:11:04 -0000 (UTC), wessie
<willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

>double posts from me and YTC

The German server was doing that as well.

>and some posts not appearing at all. I can see
>replies to SP's Win11 thread but not his OP.

--
Colin Irvine
R1250RS

Colin Irvine <look@colinandpat.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 12:11:04 -0000 (UTC), wessie
> <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
>
>>double posts from me and YTC
>
> The German server was doing that as well.
>
>>and some posts not appearing at all. I can see
>>replies to SP's Win11 thread but not his OP.

I'm using eternal-september (I think). What's the "cheesy server"?

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Mark Olson wrote:

> I'm using eternal-september (I think). What's the "cheesy server"?

The one you're using (it was previously named mozzarella)

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 12:11:04 -0000 (UTC)
wessie <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

> wessie <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote in
> news:XnsB0AD76009FB3Bwtymmmsas@135.181.20.170:
>
> > "chrisnd @ukrm" <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote in news:kq9gq2FlekjU1
> > @mid.individual.net:
> >
> >> On 30/10/2023 05:17, sweller wrote:
> >>> ogden wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I used
> >>>> to be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm tapping
> >>>> my phone these days.
> >>>
> >>> I used to sigh heavily if anyone tried to pay for drinks in a pub
> >>> with a card, now the staff sigh heavily if you try to pay cash.
> >>> As it means they have to walk to the till.
> >>>
> >> But they have to walk to the till anyway to check the price - even
> >> tho it is still the same as the last 500 pints they have sold!
> >>
> >> Chris
> >
> > plus the card reader is going to be linked to the till in most pubs,
> > your order is keyed into the till before drinks are poured and you
> > have the option to pay with contactless before your drinks are put
> > in front of you. A significant productivity enhancement for the
> > server and buyer.
> >
>
> seems the cheesy server is poorly
>
> double posts from me and YTC and some posts not appearing at all. I
> can see replies to SP's Win11 thread but not his OP.

ES has stopped carrying google groups posts because of the spam flood
that is emanating from there. You didn't see the OP because ES doesn't
have it.

Colin Irvine <look@colinandpat.co.uk> wrote in
news:66ovji1m2vkb45ll70hs86pvbj0l8ve3su@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 12:11:04 -0000 (UTC), wessie
> <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
>
>>double posts from me and YTC
>
> The German server was doing that as well.
>

the common link is YTC and I both posted from the same server[1] - my
outgoing post seemed to get hung up so I resent it, but the original one
came through eventually. I am assuming YTC did the same.

[1] eternal september formerly motzarella [sic]

MarkM <mm@mm.invalid> wrote in
news:gjS%M.600833$0vAf.98570@usenetxs.com:

> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 12:11:04 -0000 (UTC)
> wessie <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
>
>> wessie <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote in
>> news:XnsB0AD76009FB3Bwtymmmsas@135.181.20.170:
>>
>> > "chrisnd @ukrm" <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote in news:kq9gq2FlekjU1
>> > @mid.individual.net:
>> >
>> >> On 30/10/2023 05:17, sweller wrote:
>> >>> ogden wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I
>> >>>> used to be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm
>> >>>> tapping my phone these days.
>> >>>
>> >>> I used to sigh heavily if anyone tried to pay for drinks in a pub
>> >>> with a card, now the staff sigh heavily if you try to pay cash.
>> >>> As it means they have to walk to the till.
>> >>>
>> >> But they have to walk to the till anyway to check the price - even
>> >> tho it is still the same as the last 500 pints they have sold!
>> >>
>> >> Chris
>> >
>> > plus the card reader is going to be linked to the till in most
>> > pubs, your order is keyed into the till before drinks are poured
>> > and you have the option to pay with contactless before your drinks
>> > are put in front of you. A significant productivity enhancement for
>> > the server and buyer.
>> >
>>
>> seems the cheesy server is poorly
>>
>> double posts from me and YTC and some posts not appearing at all. I
>> can see replies to SP's Win11 thread but not his OP.
>
> ES has stopped carrying google groups posts because of the spam flood
> that is emanating from there. You didn't see the OP because ES doesn't
> have it.
>
>

thanks for that - I have been comparing the ES feed with Neodome, which
does have the GG post, plus a load of spam Steve Packer is the only
poster missing but a few others use GG.

Is the ES thing temporary whilst they set filters or likely to last?

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 18:14:07 -0000 (UTC)
wessie <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

> MarkM <mm@mm.invalid> wrote in
> news:gjS%M.600833$0vAf.98570@usenetxs.com:
>
> > On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 12:11:04 -0000 (UTC)
> > wessie <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
> >
> >> wessie <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote in
> >> news:XnsB0AD76009FB3Bwtymmmsas@135.181.20.170:
> >>
> >> > "chrisnd @ukrm" <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote in news:kq9gq2FlekjU1
> >> > @mid.individual.net:
> >> >
> >> >> On 30/10/2023 05:17, sweller wrote:
> >> >>> ogden wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I
> >> >>>> used to be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm
> >> >>>> tapping my phone these days.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I used to sigh heavily if anyone tried to pay for drinks in a
> >> >>> pub with a card, now the staff sigh heavily if you try to pay
> >> >>> cash. As it means they have to walk to the till.
> >> >>>
> >> >> But they have to walk to the till anyway to check the price -
> >> >> even tho it is still the same as the last 500 pints they have
> >> >> sold!
> >> >>
> >> >> Chris
> >> >
> >> > plus the card reader is going to be linked to the till in most
> >> > pubs, your order is keyed into the till before drinks are poured
> >> > and you have the option to pay with contactless before your
> >> > drinks are put in front of you. A significant productivity
> >> > enhancement for the server and buyer.
> >> >
> >>
> >> seems the cheesy server is poorly
> >>
> >> double posts from me and YTC and some posts not appearing at all. I
> >> can see replies to SP's Win11 thread but not his OP.
> >
> > ES has stopped carrying google groups posts because of the spam
> > flood that is emanating from there. You didn't see the OP because
> > ES doesn't have it.
> >
> >
>
> thanks for that - I have been comparing the ES feed with Neodome,
> which does have the GG post, plus a load of spam Steve Packer is the
> only poster missing but a few others use GG.
>
> Is the ES thing temporary whilst they set filters or likely to last?
>

From Ray Banana on eternal-september.support:

Hi, just an update on the current situation regarding GoogleGroups spam:

As of this evening (UTC) Google Groups is completely blocked on E-S,
as the filtering has adversely affected normal operation of the server
(time outs for clients). In order to have more time for a redesign of the
filter and NoCeM generator while assuring normal operation for E-S users,
ALL incoming posts originating from GoogleGroups are blocked.
I expect to have a solution within 24 hours and then resume filtering and
NoCeM generation. E-S's hardware resources are sufficient for such tasks,
it's just the way Cleanfeed/SpamAssassin interact with the newsserver that
cause a bottleneck.

MarkM wrote:

> From Ray Banana on eternal-september.support:
>
> As of this evening (UTC) Google Groups is completely blocked on E-S,
> as the filtering has adversely affected normal operation of the server
> (time outs for clients). In order to have more time for a redesign of the
> filter and NoCeM generator while assuring normal operation for E-S users,
> ALL incoming posts originating from GoogleGroups are blocked.
> I expect to have a solution within 24 hours and then resume filtering

And I believe he *did* remove that temporary block few days ago, and
resume only filtering spam from google, unfortunately the spam filtering
has since caused performance issues with E-S

On 30/10/2023 18:10, wessie wrote:
> Colin Irvine <look@colinandpat.co.uk> wrote in
> news:66ovji1m2vkb45ll70hs86pvbj0l8ve3su@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 12:11:04 -0000 (UTC), wessie
>> <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
>>
>>> double posts from me and YTC
>>
>> The German server was doing that as well.
>>
>
> the common link is YTC and I both posted from the same server[1] - my
> outgoing post seemed to get hung up so I resent it, but the original one
> came through eventually. I am assuming YTC did the same.

Yep, canceled it, check it had not arrived, sent again .....
>
> [1] eternal september formerly motzarella [sic]

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 18:35:24 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> MarkM wrote:
>
> > From Ray Banana on eternal-september.support:
> >
> > As of this evening (UTC) Google Groups is completely blocked on E-S,
> > as the filtering has adversely affected normal operation of the
> > server (time outs for clients). In order to have more time for a
> > redesign of the filter and NoCeM generator while assuring normal
> > operation for E-S users, ALL incoming posts originating from
> > GoogleGroups are blocked. I expect to have a solution within 24
> > hours and then resume filtering
>
> And I believe he *did* remove that temporary block few days ago, and
> resume only filtering spam from google, unfortunately the spam
> filtering has since caused performance issues with E-S

Yes, it seems to be an ongoing situation, That's why I included a nudge
towards the eternal-september.support group in my reply.

On 30 Oct 2023 05:17:40 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I used to
>> be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm tapping my
>> phone these days.

I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
and swipe that.

>I used to sigh heavily if anyone tried to pay for drinks in a pub with
>a card, now the staff sigh heavily if you try to pay cash. As it means
>they have to walk to the till.

Yeah, that's my experience too. I still mostly use cash in the pub,
tho
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:
> On 30 Oct 2023 05:17:40 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I used to
>>> be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm tapping my
>>> phone these days.
>
> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
> and swipe that.

As much as I have wanted to use my phone for tap to pay, this is my
experience as well, it's a lot of fiddling around vs. just pulling
out a card that doesn't need to be 'unlocked'. As I remember it,
initially Google Wallet tap to pay didn't require anything other than
getting past the phone's lock screen to work. Now it seems to want
to have me put my finger on the fingerprint reader as well.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Champ wrote:
> sweller" <swe...@mztech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I used to
> >> be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm tapping my
> >> phone these days.

No he didn't.

> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
> and swipe that.

Nor am I, because that's not how it works.

I get my phone out of my pocket (assuming it's not already in my hand anyway), unlock it with my thumbprint (same), and tap it on the reader like a card.

ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com> wrote in
news:67a7a650-db07-450e-a7d5-92eb2510c47fn@googlegroups.com:

> Champ wrote:
>> sweller" <swe...@mztech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I used
>> >> to be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm tapping
>> >> my phone these days.
>
> No he didn't.
>
>
>> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate
>> to the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
>> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
>> and swipe that.
>
> Nor am I, because that's not how it works.
>
> I get my phone out of my pocket (assuming it's not already in my hand
> anyway), unlock it with my thumbprint (same), and tap it on the reader
> like a card.
>

in some cases, if your card will link with Google/Apple pay

fine with my Halifax card, but Barclaycard Cashback have decided not to
link with Google, so you have to open their app to use it for contactless.
PITA so I use the card.

On 30/10/2023 19:12 RustyHinge penned these words:
> On 30/10/2023 10:20, Andy Burns wrote:

>>
>> There are some banks who will issue individual carer's cards, e.g.
>>
>> <https://www.santander.co.uk/personal/support/supported-banking/carers-card>
>
> That's a better question to ask: thanks for that.
>
> I looked at Santander on a coparison website and was not exactly impressed.
>

Since Shabby National was bought out way back the offerings from Santander were
mostly less good apart from one time they paid decent interest on a current
account for a little while. The they closed my accounts à la Nat Worst and Fatrage

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On 31/10/2023 04:41 Champ penned these words:
> On 30 Oct 2023 05:17:40 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I used to
>>> be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm tapping my
>>> phone these days.
>
> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
> and swipe that.

I am a late adopter/convert talked into it by my youngest and that's not how it
works. My phone is at least as accessible as my wallet often more so if the
wallet is at home. Thumb unlock and it 'remembers' for a while it's been
unlocked. In the bar scenario there's naff all difference in time paying by
phone v card.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

Boots wrote:

> they closed my accounts à la Nat Worst and Fatrage

AIUI farage *is* a UK resident!

On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 4:41:52 PM UTC-4, Champ wrote:

> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
> and swipe that.

I think the button on the side of my iphone is configured to pop up Apple Pay to select which card I want to use. So it's quick.

But the main reason I don't use it more is simply muscle memory (or the lack, thereof). I just don't really think of it. When I need to pay for something, I'm already pulling my wallet out before a conscious thought occurs.

Champ wrote:

> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
> and swipe that.

Well, quite. It's handy for impromptu purchases when I've not taken my
wallet with me, though.

--
Chris

On 30/10/2023 20:41, Champ wrote:
> On 30 Oct 2023 05:17:40 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I used to
>>> be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm tapping my
>>> phone these days.
>
> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
> and swipe that.

Yep, still at that stage.
Seems a lot of fumbling goes on at tills etc for the ease of using the
phone.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:31:53 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Champ wrote:

>> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
>> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
>> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
>> and swipe that.

>Nor am I, because that's not how it works.
>
>I get my phone out of my pocket (assuming it's not already in my hand anyway), unlock it with my thumbprint (same), and tap it on the reader like a card.

A good proportion (>33%, I reckon) of my bus passengers pay with their
phone. So I have a reasonable sample of cases of people tapping away,
swiping, finger-print unlocking, etc to know that it's not that easy
for a subset of people.

And anyway, even your best case scenario is worse than mine, cos I
don't have to unlock a card with a fingerprint
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old