On 31/10/2023 14:37, Champ wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:31:53 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I get my phone out of my pocket (assuming it's not already in my hand anyway), unlock it with my thumbprint (same), and tap it on the reader like a card.
>
> A good proportion (>33%, I reckon) of my bus passengers pay with their
> phone. So I have a reasonable sample of cases of people tapping away,
> swiping, finger-print unlocking, etc to know that it's not that easy
> for a subset of people.
>
> And anyway, even your best case scenario is worse than mine, cos I
> don't have to unlock a card with a fingerprint

Although you might have to enter a PIN after you've waved it. Or insert
the card *and* enter a PIN.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

Champ wrote:
> ogden wrote:
> >Champ wrote:
> >> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
> >> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
> >> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
> >> and swipe that.
>
> >Nor am I, because that's not how it works.
> >
> >I get my phone out of my pocket (assuming it's not already in my hand anyway), unlock it with my thumbprint (same), and tap it on the reader like a card.
>
> A good proportion (>33%, I reckon) of my bus passengers pay with their
> phone. So I have a reasonable sample of cases of people tapping away,
> swiping, finger-print unlocking, etc to know that it's not that easy
> for a subset of people.

Unlocking a phone with a thumbprint is, admittedly, easier when that thumb is opposable.

> And anyway, even your best case scenario is worse than mine, cos I
> don't have to unlock a card with a fingerprint

No, but you do have to fish that card out of your wallet. Or at least get your wallet out of your pocket. Assuming you've even taken your wallet with you.

Point I'm making is that neither one is better or worse than the other. It's just the phone method is new, you're in your 60s, and the world seems to be changing so fast...

wessie wrote:
> ogden wrote:
> > I get my phone out of my pocket (assuming it's not already in my hand
> > anyway), unlock it with my thumbprint (same), and tap it on the reader
> > like a card.
> >
> in some cases, if your card will link with Google/Apple pay
>
> fine with my Halifax card, but Barclaycard Cashback have decided not to
> link with Google, so you have to open their app to use it for contactless.
> PITA so I use the card.

I had trouble getting a Lloyds debit card set up with Google - the bank seemed to think I was trying to take out a mortgage, which was bizarre - so I use a different card. Got plenty to choose from.

On 30/10/2023 20:41, Champ wrote:
> when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet

Now that most bank notes are no longer made of paper your description
seems unnecessarily pedantic.

:-)
--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

On 31/10/2023 15:07, ogden wrote:
> Champ wrote:
>> ogden wrote:
>>> Champ wrote:
>>>> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
>>>> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
>>>> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
>>>> and swipe that.
>>
>>> Nor am I, because that's not how it works.
>>>
>>> I get my phone out of my pocket (assuming it's not already in my hand anyway), unlock it with my thumbprint (same), and tap it on the reader like a card.
>>
>> A good proportion (>33%, I reckon) of my bus passengers pay with their
>> phone. So I have a reasonable sample of cases of people tapping away,
>> swiping, finger-print unlocking, etc to know that it's not that easy
>> for a subset of people.
>
> Unlocking a phone with a thumbprint is, admittedly, easier when that thumb is opposable.
>
>
>> And anyway, even your best case scenario is worse than mine, cos I
>> don't have to unlock a card with a fingerprint
>
> No, but you do have to fish that card out of your wallet. Or at least get your wallet out of your pocket. Assuming you've even taken your wallet with you.
Card never runs out of power :-P

>
> Point I'm making is that neither one is better or worse than the other. It's just the phone method is new, you're in your 60s, and the world seems to be changing so fast...

Thanks sonny.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 11:07:13 AM UTC-4, ogden wrote:

> Point I'm making is that neither one is better or worse than the other. It's just the phone method is new, you're in your 60s, and the world seems to be changing so fast...

Policemen are very young these days....

On 31/10/2023 14:37, Champ wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:31:53 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Champ wrote:
>
>>> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
>>> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
>>> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
>>> and swipe that.
>
>
>> Nor am I, because that's not how it works.
>>
>> I get my phone out of my pocket (assuming it's not already in my hand anyway), unlock it with my thumbprint (same), and tap it on the reader like a card.
>
> A good proportion (>33%, I reckon) of my bus passengers pay with their
> phone. So I have a reasonable sample of cases of people tapping away,
> swiping, finger-print unlocking, etc to know that it's not that easy
> for a subset of people.
>
> And anyway, even your best case scenario is worse than mine, cos I
> don't have to unlock a card with a fingerprint

Pay - for using a local bus? They must all be youngsters, or don't Manx
Transport have any truck with the concept of an "Older Person's Travel
pass" (certainly a subset of people).
--
Moto Morini 2C/375
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
Honda CB250RS (Not Waynetta!)
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

Pete Fisher <peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:kqd1thF6mhnU1@mid.individual.net:

> On 31/10/2023 14:37, Champ wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:31:53 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Champ wrote:
>>
>>>> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate
>>>> to the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
>>>> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my
>>>> wallet and swipe that.
>>
>>
>>> Nor am I, because that's not how it works.
>>>
>>> I get my phone out of my pocket (assuming it's not already in my
>>> hand anyway), unlock it with my thumbprint (same), and tap it on the
>>> reader like a card.
>>
>> A good proportion (>33%, I reckon) of my bus passengers pay with
>> their phone. So I have a reasonable sample of cases of people
>> tapping away, swiping, finger-print unlocking, etc to know that it's
>> not that easy for a subset of people.
>>
>> And anyway, even your best case scenario is worse than mine, cos I
>> don't have to unlock a card with a fingerprint
>
> Pay - for using a local bus? They must all be youngsters, or don't
> Manx Transport have any truck with the concept of an "Older Person's
> Travel pass" (certainly a subset of people).

I've just had an email to say my bus pass is on its way

Over 60 in Wales gets a bus pass :)

On 31/10/2023 18:36, Ben Blaney wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 11:07:13 AM UTC-4, ogden wrote:
>
>> Point I'm making is that neither one is better or worse than the other. It's just the phone method is new, you're in your 60s, and the world seems to be changing so fast...
>
> Policemen are very young these days....

Chief Superintendents just out of short trousers innit.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 31/10/2023 19:12, Pete Fisher wrote:
> On 31/10/2023 14:37, Champ wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:31:53 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Champ wrote:
>>
>>>> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
>>>> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
>>>> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
>>>> and swipe that.
>>
>>
>>> Nor am I, because that's not how it works.
>>>
>>> I get my phone out of my pocket (assuming it's not already in my hand
>>> anyway), unlock it with my thumbprint (same), and tap it on the
>>> reader like a card.
>>
>> A good proportion (>33%, I reckon) of my bus passengers pay with their
>> phone.  So I have a reasonable sample of cases of people tapping away,
>> swiping, finger-print unlocking, etc to know that it's not that easy
>> for a subset of people.
>>
>> And anyway, even your best case scenario is worse than mine, cos I
>> don't have to unlock a card with a fingerprint
>
> Pay - for using a local bus? They must all be youngsters, or don't Manx
> Transport have any truck with the concept of an "Older Person's Travel
> pass" (certainly a subset of people).

What on earth would they want them for? They've half as many legs again
as most of us.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 31/10/2023 19:23, wessie wrote:
> Pete Fisher <peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> news:kqd1thF6mhnU1@mid.individual.net:
>
>> On 31/10/2023 14:37, Champ wrote:
>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:31:53 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Champ wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate
>>>>> to the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
>>>>> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my
>>>>> wallet and swipe that.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Nor am I, because that's not how it works.
>>>>
>>>> I get my phone out of my pocket (assuming it's not already in my
>>>> hand anyway), unlock it with my thumbprint (same), and tap it on the
>>>> reader like a card.
>>>
>>> A good proportion (>33%, I reckon) of my bus passengers pay with
>>> their phone. So I have a reasonable sample of cases of people
>>> tapping away, swiping, finger-print unlocking, etc to know that it's
>>> not that easy for a subset of people.
>>>
>>> And anyway, even your best case scenario is worse than mine, cos I
>>> don't have to unlock a card with a fingerprint
>>
>> Pay - for using a local bus? They must all be youngsters, or don't
>> Manx Transport have any truck with the concept of an "Older Person's
>> Travel pass" (certainly a subset of people).
>
> I've just had an email to say my bus pass is on its way
>
> Over 60 in Wales gets a bus pass :)

Ditto for us in the Socialist Republic of Merseyside.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 08:07:12 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> A good proportion (>33%, I reckon) of my bus passengers pay with their
>> phone. So I have a reasonable sample of cases of people tapping away,
>> swiping, finger-print unlocking, etc to know that it's not that easy
>> for a subset of people.

>Unlocking a phone with a thumbprint is, admittedly, easier when that thumb is opposable.

Ha. Nice gag. cnut

>> And anyway, even your best case scenario is worse than mine, cos I
>> don't have to unlock a card with a fingerprint
>
>No, but you do have to fish that card out of your wallet. Or at least get your wallet out of
>your pocket. Assuming you've even taken your wallet with you.
>
>Point I'm making is that neither one is better or worse than the other. It's just the phone
>method is new, you're in your 60s, and the world seems to be changing so fast...

From here it looks like it's on a merry-go-round.

--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 09:28:37 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

>>> Pay - for using a local bus? They must all be youngsters, or don't
>>> Manx Transport have any truck with the concept of an "Older Person's
>>> Travel pass" (certainly a subset of people).
>> I've just had an email to say my bus pass is on its way
>> Over 60 in Wales gets a bus pass :)

>Ditto for us in the Socialist Republic of Merseyside.

Unfortunately, it's state retirement age here :-(
Of course, as a bus driver I don't pay for any local public transport
:-)
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 01/11/2023 13:37, Champ wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 09:28:37 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>> Pay - for using a local bus? They must all be youngsters, or don't
>>>> Manx Transport have any truck with the concept of an "Older Person's
>>>> Travel pass" (certainly a subset of people).
>
>>> I've just had an email to say my bus pass is on its way
>
>>> Over 60 in Wales gets a bus pass :)
>
>> Ditto for us in the Socialist Republic of Merseyside.
>
> Unfortunately, it's state retirement age here :-(
> Of course, as a bus driver I don't pay for any local public transport
> :-)

Not sure I'd drive a bus around here

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

YTC#1 wrote:

> Not sure I'd drive a bus around here

I can understand that. You'd pull into the bus stop, let some people
off, let some people on and before you know it your wheels have been
nicked!

;-)

--
Chris

On 01/11/2023 17:01, CT wrote:
> YTC#1 wrote:
>
>> Not sure I'd drive a bus around here
>
> I can understand that. You'd pull into the bus stop, let some people
> off, let some people on and before you know it your wheels have been
> nicked!
>
> ;-)

But you soon have enough bricks to build a new house...

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 16:00:48 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

>>>> Over 60 in Wales gets a bus pass :)
>>> Ditto for us in the Socialist Republic of Merseyside.
>> Unfortunately, it's state retirement age here :-(
>> Of course, as a bus driver I don't pay for any local public transport

>Not sure I'd drive a bus around here

Not sure I would, either.

It's a doddle on the IoM. Genuinely enjoyable
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

Boots <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
> On 31/10/2023 04:41 Champ penned these words:
>> On 30 Oct 2023 05:17:40 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Covid killed cash. Contactless (mostly) killed chip'n'pin. I used to
>>>> be a cash-is-king, contactless naysayer, but even I'm tapping my
>>>> phone these days.
>>
>> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
>> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
>> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
>> and swipe that.
>
> I am a late adopter/convert talked into it by my youngest and that's not how it
> works. My phone is at least as accessible as my wallet often more so if the
> wallet is at home.

Even more so if, like me, your wallet gets lifted on the Paris metro. It
was no more than a minor inconvenience thanks to Google pay. It was
probably more inconvenient for the thief, trying all my frozen cards in the
bookies.

Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:31:53 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Champ wrote:
>
>>> I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket, unlock it, navigate to
>>> the payment app, and then wave the device around by the payment
>>> machine when I can just pull a slim piece of plastic out of my wallet
>>> and swipe that.
>
>
>> Nor am I, because that's not how it works.
>>
>> I get my phone out of my pocket (assuming it's not already in my hand
>> anyway), unlock it with my thumbprint (same), and tap it on the reader like a card.
>
> A good proportion (>33%, I reckon) of my bus passengers pay with their
> phone. So I have a reasonable sample of cases of people tapping away,
> swiping, finger-print unlocking, etc to know that it's not that easy
> for a subset of people.
>

I suspect the bulk of that subset also struggles with the tv remote
control.

Higgins wrote:

>
> Even more so if, like me, your wallet gets lifted on the Paris metro.
> It was no more than a minor inconvenience thanks to Google pay. It was
> probably more inconvenient for the thief, trying all my frozen cards
> in the bookies.

I assume it would be a major inconvenience if your phone got lifted?

--

Geoff
NTV650

GeoffC <me@invalid.nl> wrote:
> Higgins wrote:
>
>>
>> Even more so if, like me, your wallet gets lifted on the Paris metro.
>> It was no more than a minor inconvenience thanks to Google pay. It was
>> probably more inconvenient for the thief, trying all my frozen cards
>> in the bookies.
>
> I assume it would be a major inconvenience if your phone got lifted?
>

Not if I still had my wallet.

Higgins wrote:

> GeoffC <me@invalid.nl> wrote:
> > Higgins wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Even more so if, like me, your wallet gets lifted on the Paris
> metro. >> It was no more than a minor inconvenience thanks to Google
> pay. It was >> probably more inconvenient for the thief, trying all
> my frozen cards >> in the bookies.
> >
> > I assume it would be a major inconvenience if your phone got lifted?
> >
>
> Not if I still had my wallet.

Memo to tea leaf:
Make sure you get both the phone AND the wallet.

--

Geoff
NTV650

"GeoffC" <me@invalid.nl> wrote in news:ui6iur$3jl28$1@dont-email.me:

> Higgins wrote:
>
>> GeoffC <me@invalid.nl> wrote:
>> > Higgins wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Even more so if, like me, your wallet gets lifted on the Paris
>> metro. >> It was no more than a minor inconvenience thanks to Google
>> pay. It was >> probably more inconvenient for the thief, trying all
>> my frozen cards >> in the bookies.
>> >
>> > I assume it would be a major inconvenience if your phone got lifted?
>> >
>>
>> Not if I still had my wallet.
>
> Memo to tea leaf:
> Make sure you get both the phone AND the wallet.
>

that's the diamond package for a thief. Especially if someone has not
disabled text messages being displayed on an unlocked screen, so one time
passcodes can be viewed.

wessie wrote:

> "GeoffC" <me@invalid.nl> wrote in news:ui6iur$3jl28$1@dont-email.me:
>
> > Higgins wrote:
> >
> >> GeoffC <me@invalid.nl> wrote:
> >> > Higgins wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Even more so if, like me, your wallet gets lifted on the Paris
> >> metro. >> It was no more than a minor inconvenience thanks to
> Google >> pay. It was >> probably more inconvenient for the thief,
> trying all >> my frozen cards >> in the bookies.
> >> >
> >> > I assume it would be a major inconvenience if your phone got
> lifted? >> >
> >>
> >> Not if I still had my wallet.
> >
> > Memo to tea leaf:
> > Make sure you get both the phone AND the wallet.
> >
>
> that's the diamond package for a thief. Especially if someone has not
> disabled text messages being displayed on an unlocked screen, so one
> time passcodes can be viewed.

Good point. Got that set to <Hide Content> now.
What about if somebody snatches your phone while you are using it,
obviously it is unlocked, can they change the password, fingerprint etc?
I'm talking Android here BTW.

--

Geoff
NTV650

"GeoffC" <me@invalid.nl> wrote in news:ui8e95$244c$1@dont-email.me:

> wessie wrote:
>
>> "GeoffC" <me@invalid.nl> wrote in news:ui6iur$3jl28$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>> > Higgins wrote:
>> >
>> >> GeoffC <me@invalid.nl> wrote:
>> >> > Higgins wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Even more so if, like me, your wallet gets lifted on the Paris
>> >> metro. >> It was no more than a minor inconvenience thanks to
>> Google >> pay. It was >> probably more inconvenient for the thief,
>> trying all >> my frozen cards >> in the bookies.
>> >> >
>> >> > I assume it would be a major inconvenience if your phone got
>> lifted? >> >
>> >>
>> >> Not if I still had my wallet.
>> >
>> > Memo to tea leaf:
>> > Make sure you get both the phone AND the wallet.
>> >
>>
>> that's the diamond package for a thief. Especially if someone has not
>> disabled text messages being displayed on an unlocked screen, so one
>> time passcodes can be viewed.
>
> Good point. Got that set to <Hide Content> now.
> What about if somebody snatches your phone while you are using it,
> obviously it is unlocked, can they change the password, fingerprint
etc?
> I'm talking Android here BTW.
>
>

the phone will ask for your PIN before those can be altered, so best to
use finger or face recognition so you cannot be observed entering the
PIN

the other thing to do is PIN lock the SIM so they cannot swap your SIM
to their phone