In message <uupkk0$1imo5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:49:20 on Fri, 5 Apr
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uup1ut$1e5cv$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:30:53 on Fri, 5 Apr
>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uuopp5$1c61p$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:11:17 on Fri, 5 Apr
>>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uulhdd$g3nf$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:30:05 on Thu, 4 Apr
>>>>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <uukb42$443f$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:36:34 on Wed, 3 Apr
>>>>>>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <uujfbe$3t8fg$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:42:38 on Wed, 3 Apr
>>>>>>>>>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not had problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably helps if you make sure you set the STUN server address
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ATA but a number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adapters (ATA).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> demand has gone away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main vendors these days. A lot of the Cisco kit seems designed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a corporate rollout so check the manual in advance to see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it can be configured at a single user domestic level.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht8
>>>>>>>>>>>> 12_english.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>REN of 3, so
>>>>>>>>>>>> likely to operate the mechanical bell.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
>>>>>>>>>>> suppose.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Give their tech support line a call. Their VOIP service is standards
>>>>>>>>>> compliant, so I’d be surprised if the Grandstream device
>>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You might find this helpful
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_Phones_-_Grandstream_HT8xx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Makes it sound like a can of worms, or are boxes where xx<>01 not
>>>>>>>> susceptible to the same issues?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://support.aa.net.uk/Category:VoIP_Phones
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Same question about the "xx". Or have they only tested xx=01?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’ve no idea. The world of voip is full of pitfalls. I think A&A
>>>>>>> would only
>>>>>>> guarantee the performance of the devices they sell, which for home
>>>>>>> users is
>>>>>>> only the Yealink DECT base station and handset.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Order what you want from Amazon, then you can send it back using the
>>>>>>> distance selling regulations if you can’t make it work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could sent it back, but DSRs aren't the relevant mechanism.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why not?
>>>>
>>>> Because I think they've been superceded; but even so, all it allows is a
>>>> preliminary inspection on arrival, not a "test drive". After that it's
>>>> down to what used to be called "Sale of Goods".
>>>>
>>>> Amazon, however, is still in the business of buying market share at the
>>>> expense of their suppliers, so has a non-statutory pretty much "no
>>>> quibbles" returns policy.
>>>
>>> https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses
>>>
>>> You must tell the customer they can cancel their order up to 14 days after
>>> their order is delivered. They do not need to give a reason for cancelling.
>>>
>>> Exceptions
>>> These rules do not apply to:
>>> goods and services worth £42 or less
>>
>> But see:
>>
>> https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds
>
>I see nothing in that section which negates my original standpoint.

Tis isn't the right group to debate this issue, but it comes down to
being able to return the goods in "as new" condition (some traders
will insist on virtually "unopened" too.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uuqsoj$1urr6$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:14:14 on Sat, 6 Apr
2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>JMB99 wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> Is that one reason so many interviews on the radio drop out?  I
>>thought it was people using mobile phones.
>
>Possibly, ut interviews where the interviewee uses a mobile phone are
>obvious by their poor audio quality. So if that poor quality is
>followed by a drop-out - it might be the correct explanation.
>
>What I notice more often is that the presenter says something like: "We
>have Mr Politician on the line now.

And of course, it's not a "line", it's a cloud.

>Hello Mr Politician ....."
>
>There's then an embarrassing silence - but I suspect this is finger
>trouble somewhere.

Probably the politician failing to un-mute themselves.
--
Roland Perry

In message <l7d3abFb8taU1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:08:11 on Sat, 6 Apr
2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>On 5 Apr 2024 12:37, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <l7a10eFrje9U1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:10:22 on Fri, 5 Apr
>> 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>>>On 2 Apr 2024 18:40, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> It's almost 10yrs since I last read this newsgroup, so apologise if this
>>>> is a FAQ:
>>>>
>>>> I'm having my ADSL++ upgraded to Full Fibre next week, and the
>>>> associated POTs line is toast. Nobody but scammers call me on it
>>>> anyway.
>>>>
>>>> However, as an exercise as much as anything else, I'd like to retain
>>>> my retro dial phone with bells, and connect it to a 'box' which will,
>>>> like the Openreach gubbins, be powered from a UPS, and service a
>>>> geographic VoIP number that's currently with Gradwell (but they are
>>>> too expensive).
>>>>
>>>> If I need to make any outgoing calls, I've got a DECT cordless.
>>>>
>>>> Recommendations for the 'box' and the VoIP provider please.
>>>
>>>I went for the very boring option. At the time I was a BT employee so
>>>got a good deal. Looking at alternatives now, there isn't much change
>>>in cost so I've stayed with it.
>>>
>>>Anyway, I have my proper "old" phone (pulse dial, bell, bakelite)
>>>plugged into the original house wiring extension.
>>>The hub is a standard BT Smart Hub 2 and I've connected the ATA socket
>>>on the back to the house wiring. Simples!
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the Full Fibre ATA won't have a POTs socket on it,
>> whether supplied by BT (it isn't) or the people I'm signed up with.
>
>The BT Smart Hub 2 and the EE equivalent both have a standard socket in
>the back serviced from the built-in ATA.

Fair enough. I've not seen an ADSL modem/router with an inbuilt phone
socket for perhaps 20yrs. It was all the rage, briefly.

I think it floundered because of the problems setting them up to work
with a plethora of often quirky VoIP providers.

>BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired with
>the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
>socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
a phone plug on the end.

>>>Of course pulse dialling doesn't work but everything else does.
>>
>> For a proper retro installation, pulse dialling has to work (even if
>> thanks to an extra gadget).
>
>For use with the DECT-BT socket thing, I've had to do the bell wire
>frob to get the bell to ring. Quite simple. I don't have the soldering
>skills to do the pulse-tone conversion myself

I'm looking to buy a box where it works by design.
--
Roland Perry

On 8 Apr 2024 11:46, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <l7d3abFb8taU1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:08:11 on Sat, 6 Apr
> 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>>On 5 Apr 2024 12:37, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <l7a10eFrje9U1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:10:22 on Fri, 5 Apr
>>> 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>>>>On 2 Apr 2024 18:40, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> It's almost 10yrs since I last read this newsgroup, so apologise if this
>>>>> is a FAQ:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm having my ADSL++ upgraded to Full Fibre next week, and the
>>>>> associated POTs line is toast. Nobody but scammers call me on it
>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, as an exercise as much as anything else, I'd like to retain
>>>>> my retro dial phone with bells, and connect it to a 'box' which will,
>>>>> like the Openreach gubbins, be powered from a UPS, and service a
>>>>> geographic VoIP number that's currently with Gradwell (but they are
>>>>> too expensive).
>>>>>
>>>>> If I need to make any outgoing calls, I've got a DECT cordless.
>>>>>
>>>>> Recommendations for the 'box' and the VoIP provider please.
>>>>
>>>>I went for the very boring option. At the time I was a BT employee
so
>>>>got a good deal. Looking at alternatives now, there isn't much
change
>>>>in cost so I've stayed with it.
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, I have my proper "old" phone (pulse dial, bell, bakelite)
>>>>plugged into the original house wiring extension.
>>>>The hub is a standard BT Smart Hub 2 and I've connected the ATA
socket
>>>>on the back to the house wiring. Simples!
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure the Full Fibre ATA won't have a POTs socket on it,
>>> whether supplied by BT (it isn't) or the people I'm signed up with.
>>
>>The BT Smart Hub 2 and the EE equivalent both have a standard socket
in
>>the back serviced from the built-in ATA.
>
> Fair enough. I've not seen an ADSL modem/router with an inbuilt phone
> socket for perhaps 20yrs. It was all the rage, briefly.
>
> I think it floundered because of the problems setting them up to work
> with a plethora of often quirky VoIP providers.
>
>>BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired with
>>the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
>>socket
>
> Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
> a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

>>>>Of course pulse dialling doesn't work but everything else does.
>>>
>>> For a proper retro installation, pulse dialling has to work (even if
>>> thanks to an extra gadget).
>>
>>For use with the DECT-BT socket thing, I've had to do the bell wire
>>frob to get the bell to ring. Quite simple. I don't have the soldering
>>skills to do the pulse-tone conversion myself
>
> I'm looking to buy a box where it works by design.

Almost anything you buy will need some sort of adapter. One to get the
bell wire going which is easy/cheap and one to store all the pulses and
then send them as tones, which is more expensive

In message <l7irq2F7asiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 19:36:50 on Mon, 8 Apr
2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:

>>>BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired with
>>>the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
>>>socket
>>
>> Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
>> a phone plug on the end.
>
>The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
>that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?) the
smart-hub is also a DECT base?
--
Roland Perry

On 9 Apr 2024 21:26, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <l7irq2F7asiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 19:36:50 on Mon, 8 Apr
> 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>
>>>>BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
with
>>>>the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
>>>>socket
>>>
>>> Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
>>> a phone plug on the end.
>>
>>The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
>>that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.
>
> Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?) the
> smart-hub is also a DECT base?

Correct. I think this is actually a weakness as the "Digital" handsets
have to be within DECT range of the hub and it seems their range is on
the low side. Wi-Fi for the handsets would seem to me to be a better
idea

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 23:35:42 +0100
Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> wrote:

> On 9 Apr 2024 21:26, Roland Perry wrote:
> > In message <l7irq2F7asiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 19:36:50 on Mon,
> > 8 Apr 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
> >
> >>>>BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
> with
> >>>>the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
> >>>>socket
> >>>
> >>> Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a
> >>> cord with a phone plug on the end.
> >>
> >>The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
> >>that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.
> >
> > Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
> > the smart-hub is also a DECT base?
>
> Correct. I think this is actually a weakness as the "Digital"
> handsets have to be within DECT range of the hub and it seems their
> range is on the low side. Wi-Fi for the handsets would seem to me to
> be a better idea
>

My Panasonic DECT handsets work outside in the garden, about 80 feet
away from the house, and maybe further. I can even use them next door,
so I wouldn't consider that a concern. That is using the system's DECT
base-station, which is what I would do, plugging it in to the
Fritz!Box's POTS connector. My (meshless) WiFi has a far weaker signal
strength.

--
Davey.

Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 23:35:42 +0100
> Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> wrote:
>
> > On 9 Apr 2024 21:26, Roland Perry wrote:
> > > In message <l7irq2F7asiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 19:36:50 on Mon,
> > > 8 Apr 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
> > >
> > >>>>BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
> > with
> > >>>>the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
> > >>>>socket
> > >>>
> > >>> Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a
> > >>> cord with a phone plug on the end.
> > >>
> > >>The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
> > >>that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.
> > >
> > > Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
> > > the smart-hub is also a DECT base?
> >
> > Correct. I think this is actually a weakness as the "Digital"
> > handsets have to be within DECT range of the hub and it seems their
> > range is on the low side. Wi-Fi for the handsets would seem to me to
> > be a better idea
> >
>
> My Panasonic DECT handsets work outside in the garden, about 80 feet
> away from the house, and maybe further. I can even use them next door,
> so I wouldn't consider that a concern. That is using the system's DECT
> base-station, which is what I would do, plugging it in to the
> Fritz!Box's POTS connector. My (meshless) WiFi has a far weaker signal
> strength.
>
Yes, that's our experience too. We have a Gigaset DECT system and it
really does work out to the often quoted 300 metres range (we have a 9
acre smallholding so 300 metres is still 'at home'!). Our WiFi
coverage (from several APs, Asus, TP-Link and others) only goes out to
100 metres or so.

--
Chris Green
·

On 09/04/2024 21:26, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <l7irq2F7asiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 19:36:50 on Mon, 8 Apr
> 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>
>>>> BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired with
>>>> the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
>>>> socket
>>>
>>> Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
>>> a phone plug on the end.
>>
>> The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
>> that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.
>
> Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?) the
> smart-hub is also a DECT base?

Yes. Using the built-in Smart Hub 2 DECT allows multiple calls, which an
external DECT base plugged into the POTS connector may not. The convertor /
paired socket is intended for people with an existing phone (or DECT base)
connected to the master socket using too much wire for it to reach the
Smart Hub 2 (needed after conversion to Digital Voice).

It is possible to have DECT handsets registered to both the Smart Hub 2
itself (better sound quality) and a DECT base plugged into the back of it
(probably more functionality, like call history).

In message <2a0iek-vqs4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>, at 09:47:30 on Wed, 10 Apr
2024, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> remarked:
>> > >>> Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a
>> > >>> cord with a phone plug on the end.
>> > >>
>> > >>The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
>> > >>that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.
>> > >
>> > > Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
>> > > the smart-hub is also a DECT base?
>> >
>> > Correct. I think this is actually a weakness as the "Digital"
>> > handsets have to be within DECT range of the hub and it seems their
>> > range is on the low side. Wi-Fi for the handsets would seem to me to
>> > be a better idea
>>
>> My Panasonic DECT handsets work outside in the garden, about 80 feet
>> away from the house, and maybe further. I can even use them next door,
>> so I wouldn't consider that a concern. That is using the system's DECT
>> base-station, which is what I would do, plugging it in to the
>> Fritz!Box's POTS connector. My (meshless) WiFi has a far weaker signal
>> strength.
>>
>Yes, that's our experience too. We have a Gigaset DECT system and it
>really does work out to the often quoted 300 metres range (we have a 9
>acre smallholding so 300 metres is still 'at home'!). Our WiFi
>coverage (from several APs, Asus, TP-Link and others) only goes out to
>100 metres or so.

This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".

Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and yes it
does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice Customers
Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to that, marked
"do not use".

Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uv5o1u$srkv$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:01:34 on Wed, 10 Apr
2024, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
>On 09/04/2024 21:26, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <l7irq2F7asiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 19:36:50 on Mon, 8
>>Apr 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>>
>>>>> BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
>>>>> the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal
>>>>> socket
>>>>
>>>> Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
>>>> a phone plug on the end.
>>>
>>> The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
>>> that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

>> Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
>>the smart-hub is also a DECT base?
>
> Yes. Using the built-in Smart Hub 2 DECT allows multiple calls, which
>an external DECT base plugged into the POTS connector may not. The
>convertor / paired socket is intended for people with an existing phone
>(or DECT base) connected to the master socket using too much wire for
>it to reach the Smart Hub 2 (needed after conversion to Digital Voice).
>
> It is possible to have DECT handsets registered to both the Smart Hub
>2 itself (better sound quality) and a DECT base plugged into the back
>of it (probably more functionality, like call history).

Thanks, I'll see if I can get to play with that. First step, however,
would be to configure the Hub2 to work with a voice service like A&A
rather than BT.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

[snip]

> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
> DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
>
> Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and yes it
> does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice Customers
> Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to that, marked
> "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL. The mystery
"Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate modem, such as
the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP installations.

> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
> BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
> DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may be
able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well be
limited to WiFi settings only.

You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of a
number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary configuration
details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

--
Graham J

On 11/04/2024 11:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>
> Thanks, I'll see if I can get to play with that. First step, however, would
> be to configure the Hub2 to work with a voice service like A&A rather than BT.

Highly unlikely. My 'Phone' settings were disabled until BT switched me
to Digital Voice, and even now there are only DECT related settings available.

Graham J wrote:

> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
> Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
> solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
> know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings.

I have a Zen-provided Fritz!Box which auto-configured for their
Digital Voice when it was installed a few months ago. I have since
ported my number to A&A VoIP and was able to reconfigure the Fritz!Box
to use it.

--
Geoff Clare <netnews@gclare.org.uk>

On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 11:57:14 +0100, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk>
wrote:

>In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
>Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
>solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
>know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may be
>able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well be
>limited to WiFi settings only.

I managed to connect one of my BT cordless handsets to the Fritzbox,
in that it showed in the DECT section of the config pages as
'connected', but I couldn't make any calls with it. Maybe I missed
some vital setting so I might have another go some time.

I've thought about getting one of the Fritz 'Fon' handsets to try out,
but they're expensive, and I've seen a lot of faulty ones on Ebay,
which isn't a good sign. However a standard BT cordless phone with the
base station physically plugged into the Fritzbox works very well.

Rod.

On 05/04/2024 13:09, Tweed wrote:
> I’ve never before seen TalkTalk (residential arm) and competent telco used
> together before!

I just thinking the same!

On 11 Apr 2024 11:21, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <uv5o1u$srkv$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:01:34 on Wed, 10 Apr
> 2024, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
>>On 09/04/2024 21:26, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <l7irq2F7asiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 19:36:50 on Mon, 8
>>>Apr 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>> BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
>>>>>> the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal
>>>>>> socket
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
>>>>> a phone plug on the end.
>>>>
>>>> The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
>>>> that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.
>
>>> Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
>>>the smart-hub is also a DECT base?
>>
>> Yes. Using the built-in Smart Hub 2 DECT allows multiple calls, which
>>an external DECT base plugged into the POTS connector may not. The
>>convertor / paired socket is intended for people with an existing
phone
>>(or DECT base) connected to the master socket using too much wire for
>>it to reach the Smart Hub 2 (needed after conversion to Digital
Voice).
>>
>> It is possible to have DECT handsets registered to both the Smart Hub
>>2 itself (better sound quality) and a DECT base plugged into the back
>>of it (probably more functionality, like call history).
>
> Thanks, I'll see if I can get to play with that. First step, however,
> would be to configure the Hub2 to work with a voice service like A&A
> rather than BT.

The Smart Hub 2 (retail) only works with BT's Digital Voice.
The EE equivalent hub only works with the EE equivalent voice product.

But, of course, you can just not bother and use SIP from a device in
your network.

In message <uv8fmh$1l97u$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:14 on Thu, 11 Apr
2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
>>DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
>> Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
>>yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
>>Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
>>that, marked "do not use".
>
>The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

>The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
>modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
>installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
>>BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
>>DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.
>
>In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
>Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
>solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
>know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
>be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
>be limited to WiFi settings only.
>
>You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
>your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
>VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
>a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
>configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?
--
Roland Perry

In message <uv9155$1ouh3$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:55:17 on Thu, 11 Apr
2024, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:

>> I’ve never before seen TalkTalk (residential arm) and competent telco used
>> together before!
>
>I just thinking the same!

My Talktalk v.fast has been faultless, both installation and use for two
years. Have never needed to call on support even once.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <uv8fmh$1l97u$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:14 on Thu, 11 Apr
> 2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
>>> DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
>>> Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
>>> yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
>>> Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
>>> that, marked "do not use".
>>
>> The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.
>
> No, it's from someone with FTTP.
>
>> The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
>> modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
>> installations.
>
> The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
> socket is a mystery.
>
>>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
>>> BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
>>> DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.
>>
>> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
>> Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
>> solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
>> know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
>> be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
>> be limited to WiFi settings only.
>>
>> You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
>> your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
>> VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
>> a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
>> configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.
>
> Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

Grandstream HT812

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_english.pdf

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <uv9155$1ouh3$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:55:17 on Thu, 11 Apr
> 2024, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
>
>>> I’ve never before seen TalkTalk (residential arm) and competent telco used
>>> together before!
>>
>> I just thinking the same!
>
> My Talktalk v.fast has been faultless, both installation and use for two
> years. Have never needed to call on support even once.

They did manage to leak their customer database details though.

https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/media-centre/talktalk-cyber-attack-how-the-ico-investigation-unfolded/

Though to be fair, every other organisation seems to be doing the same so
it seems.

On 11/04/2024 11:57, Graham J wrote:
> Roland Perry wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
>> DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
>>
>> Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and yes
>> it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice Customers
>> Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to that, marked
>> "do not use".
>
> The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.  The mystery
> "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate modem, such as
> the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP installations.
>
>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
>> BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
>> DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.
>
> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
> Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
> solutions.  You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
> know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings.  You may be
> able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well be
> limited to WiFi settings only.
>

I have a Fritz!Box from ZEN connected to voipfone.co.uk.

> You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
> your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
> VoIP base-station bought independently.  You can then chose any one of a
> number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary configuration
> details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.
>
>

I like the Fritz!box ZEN provides. If you don't take ZENs voip you can
configure it to many third part SIP providers.

The VOIP is very versatile, so it can act as a SIP server so I have desk
SipPhone connected to it and I have a second Fritz!box (in Spain) with a
DECT handset, which also connects via the SIP server in the first.

It has VPN support (IPSec and WireGuard) and the performance of the VPN
is faster than my Vigour2862 which despite having 1gb ports can only
manage 60Mb throughput on the VPN.

My issues are is you can't have a timed re-boot and it only provides one
WiFi network (well two, one for each band)

No idea on the BT one but usually these are fully locked down

Dave

In message <uv95rd$1q3qh$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:15:25 on Thu, 11 Apr
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uv9155$1ouh3$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:55:17 on Thu, 11 Apr
>> 2024, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
>>
>>>> I’ve never before seen TalkTalk (residential arm) and competent
>>>>telco used
>>>> together before!
>>>
>>> I just thinking the same!
>>
>> My Talktalk v.fast has been faultless, both installation and use for two
>> years. Have never needed to call on support even once.
>
>They did manage to leak their customer database details though.
>
>https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/media-centre/talktalk-cyber-attack-how-
>the-ico-investigation-unfolded/

Nine years ago! Anyway I'm with a Talkalk reseller, so a different
customer database.

>Though to be fair, every other organisation seems to be doing the same so
>it seems.
>

--
Roland Perry

In message <uv95lf$1q2ms$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:12:15 on Thu, 11 Apr
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uv8fmh$1l97u$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:14 on Thu, 11 Apr
>> 2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
>>>> DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
>>>> Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
>>>> yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
>>>> Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
>>>> that, marked "do not use".
>>>
>>> The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.
>>
>> No, it's from someone with FTTP.
>>
>>> The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
>>> modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
>>> installations.
>>
>> The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
>> socket is a mystery.
>>
>>>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
>>>> BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
>>>> DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.
>>>
>>> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
>>> Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
>>> solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
>>> know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
>>> be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
>>> be limited to WiFi settings only.
>>>
>>> You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
>>> your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
>>> VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
>>> a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
>>> configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.
>>
>> Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?
>
>Grandstream HT812
>
>https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
>english.pdf

That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).
--
Roland Perry

In message <l7qj50Fcd43U1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:58:08 on Thu, 11
Apr 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>On 11 Apr 2024 11:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <uv5o1u$srkv$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:01:34 on Wed, 10 Apr
>> 2024, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
>>>On 09/04/2024 21:26, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <l7irq2F7asiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 19:36:50 on Mon, 8
>>>>Apr 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>>> BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
>>>>>>> the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal
>>>>>>> socket
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
>>>>>> a phone plug on the end.
>>>>>
>>>>> The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
>>>>> that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.
>>
>>>> Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
>>>>the smart-hub is also a DECT base?
>>>
>>> Yes. Using the built-in Smart Hub 2 DECT allows multiple calls,
>>>which an external DECT base plugged into the POTS connector may not.
>>>The convertor / paired socket is intended for people with an existing
>>>phone (or DECT base) connected to the master socket using too much
>>>wire for it to reach the Smart Hub 2 (needed after conversion to Digital Voice).
>>>
>>> It is possible to have DECT handsets registered to both the Smart Hub
>>>2 itself (better sound quality) and a DECT base plugged into the back
>>>of it (probably more functionality, like call history).
>>
>> Thanks, I'll see if I can get to play with that. First step, however,
>> would be to configure the Hub2 to work with a voice service like A&A
>> rather than BT.
>
>The Smart Hub 2 (retail) only works with BT's Digital Voice.
>The EE equivalent hub only works with the EE equivalent voice product.
>
>But, of course, you can just not bother and use SIP from a device in
>your network.

BT/EE aren't allowing me to "bother", so that's even more minus points
for both organisations.
--
Roland Perry