Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <uv95lf$1q2ms$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:12:15 on Thu, 11 Apr
> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uv8fmh$1l97u$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:14 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>> 2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
>>>>> DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
>>>>> Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
>>>>> yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
>>>>> Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
>>>>> that, marked "do not use".
>>>>
>>>> The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.
>>>
>>> No, it's from someone with FTTP.
>>>
>>>> The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
>>>> modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
>>>> installations.
>>>
>>> The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
>>> socket is a mystery.
>>>
>>>>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
>>>>> BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
>>>>> DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.
>>>>
>>>> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
>>>> Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
>>>> solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
>>>> know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
>>>> be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
>>>> be limited to WiFi settings only.
>>>>
>>>> You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
>>>> your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
>>>> VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
>>>> a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
>>>> configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.
>>>
>>> Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?
>>
>> Grandstream HT812
>>
>> https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
>> english.pdf
>
> That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
> HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
> has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).

I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors. Domestic users
mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use Ethernet connected desk
phones.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <l7qj50Fcd43U1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:58:08 on Thu, 11
> Apr 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>> On 11 Apr 2024 11:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uv5o1u$srkv$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:01:34 on Wed, 10 Apr
>>> 2024, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 09/04/2024 21:26, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <l7irq2F7asiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 19:36:50 on Mon, 8
>>>>> Apr 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
>>>>>>>> the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal
>>>>>>>> socket
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
>>>>>>> a phone plug on the end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
>>>>>> that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.
>>>
>>>>> Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
>>>>> the smart-hub is also a DECT base?
>>>>
>>>> Yes. Using the built-in Smart Hub 2 DECT allows multiple calls,
>>>> which an external DECT base plugged into the POTS connector may not.
>>>> The convertor / paired socket is intended for people with an existing
>>>> phone (or DECT base) connected to the master socket using too much
>>>> wire for it to reach the Smart Hub 2 (needed after conversion to Digital Voice).
>>>>
>>>> It is possible to have DECT handsets registered to both the Smart Hub
>>>> 2 itself (better sound quality) and a DECT base plugged into the back
>>>> of it (probably more functionality, like call history).
>>>
>>> Thanks, I'll see if I can get to play with that. First step, however,
>>> would be to configure the Hub2 to work with a voice service like A&A
>>> rather than BT.
>>
>> The Smart Hub 2 (retail) only works with BT's Digital Voice.
>> The EE equivalent hub only works with the EE equivalent voice product.
>>
>> But, of course, you can just not bother and use SIP from a device in
>> your network.
>
> BT/EE aren't allowing me to "bother", so that's even more minus points
> for both organisations.

BT want to use their Digital Voice service as a means of customer lock in.
It is intentionally not an open system.

Tweed wrote:
> I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors.
Cisco SPAxxx or ATAxxx devices
Audiocodes MPxxx devices
Polycom
The Ribbon devices are likely too spendy for home users

On 12/04/2024 09:01, Tweed wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uv95lf$1q2ms$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:12:15 on Thu, 11 Apr
>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uv8fmh$1l97u$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:14 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>>> 2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
>>>>>> DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
>>>>>> Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
>>>>>> yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
>>>>>> Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
>>>>>> that, marked "do not use".
>>>>>
>>>>> The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.
>>>>
>>>> No, it's from someone with FTTP.
>>>>
>>>>> The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
>>>>> modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
>>>>> installations.
>>>>
>>>> The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
>>>> socket is a mystery.
>>>>
>>>>>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
>>>>>> BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
>>>>>> DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
>>>>> Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
>>>>> solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
>>>>> know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
>>>>> be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
>>>>> be limited to WiFi settings only.
>>>>>
>>>>> You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
>>>>> your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
>>>>> VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
>>>>> a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
>>>>> configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.
>>>>
>>>> Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?
>>>
>>> Grandstream HT812
>>>
>>> https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
>>> english.pdf
>>
>> That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
>> HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
>> has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).
>
> I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors. Domestic users
> mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use Ethernet connected desk
> phones.
>

I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...

Dave

David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...

Sorta. On the Fritzbox 7530 they say:

<quote>
11 Connecting and configuring an analog telephone

The following steps are only necessary if the telephone is connected to the analog extension "FON":

Setting your analog telephone to tone dialing

Set your device to "tone dialing" (DTMF) and not "pulse dialing". Pulse
dialing is no longer state of the art and can lead to dialing problems on a
telephone system. We therefore cannot guarantee that devices with pulse
dialing will operate correctly with the FRITZ!Box. With tone dialing, you
hear a tone when you press a number key; with pulse dialing, you hear
clicking sounds. Refer to the manufacturer of the device for information on
how to set it up, for example consult the manual.
</quote>

https://en.avm.de/service/knowledge-base/dok/FRITZ-Box-7530/28_Cannot-make-outgoing-calls/

In other words, they don't 'support' pulse dialling, but they don't say it
won't work - it's just your problem if there are issues. If it didn't
handle pulse dialling at all they would likely say that.

Theo
(have a 7530 but it's running OpenWRT which doesn't have drivers for the
phone port)

In message <uvapt4$289jm$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:48 on Fri, 12 Apr
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <l7qj50Fcd43U1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:58:08 on Thu, 11
>> Apr 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>>> On 11 Apr 2024 11:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uv5o1u$srkv$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:01:34 on Wed, 10 Apr
>>>> 2024, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 09/04/2024 21:26, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <l7irq2F7asiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 19:36:50 on Mon, 8
>>>>>> Apr 2024, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
>>>>>>>>> the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal
>>>>>>>>> socket
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
>>>>>>>> a phone plug on the end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
>>>>>>> that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.
>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
>>>>>> the smart-hub is also a DECT base?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. Using the built-in Smart Hub 2 DECT allows multiple calls,
>>>>> which an external DECT base plugged into the POTS connector may not.
>>>>> The convertor / paired socket is intended for people with an existing
>>>>> phone (or DECT base) connected to the master socket using too much
>>>>> wire for it to reach the Smart Hub 2 (needed after conversion to
>>>>>Digital Voice).
>>>>>
>>>>> It is possible to have DECT handsets registered to both the Smart Hub
>>>>> 2 itself (better sound quality) and a DECT base plugged into the back
>>>>> of it (probably more functionality, like call history).
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, I'll see if I can get to play with that. First step, however,
>>>> would be to configure the Hub2 to work with a voice service like A&A
>>>> rather than BT.
>>>
>>> The Smart Hub 2 (retail) only works with BT's Digital Voice.
>>> The EE equivalent hub only works with the EE equivalent voice product.
>>>
>>> But, of course, you can just not bother and use SIP from a device in
>>> your network.
>>
>> BT/EE aren't allowing me to "bother", so that's even more minus points
>> for both organisations.
>
>BT want to use their Digital Voice service as a means of customer lock in.
>It is intentionally not an open system.

Yes, that's why they get the negative points. Bell-heads who didn't get
the memo that OSI failed and the Internet's success is by and large
because it's an open system.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uvapo0$288je$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:01:04 on Fri, 12 Apr
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uv95lf$1q2ms$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:12:15 on Thu, 11 Apr
>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uv8fmh$1l97u$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:14 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>>> 2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
>>>>>> DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
>>>>>> Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
>>>>>> yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
>>>>>> Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
>>>>>> that, marked "do not use".
>>>>>
>>>>> The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.
>>>>
>>>> No, it's from someone with FTTP.
>>>>
>>>>> The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
>>>>> modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
>>>>> installations.
>>>>
>>>> The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
>>>> socket is a mystery.
>>>>
>>>>>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
>>>>>> BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
>>>>>> DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
>>>>> Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
>>>>> solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
>>>>> know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
>>>>> be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
>>>>> be limited to WiFi settings only.
>>>>>
>>>>> You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
>>>>> your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
>>>>> VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
>>>>> a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
>>>>> configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.
>>>>
>>>> Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?
>>>
>>> Grandstream HT812
>>>
>>> https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
>>> english.pdf
>>
>> That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
>> HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
>> has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).
>
>I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors. Domestic users
>mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use Ethernet connected desk
>phones.

This is a retro project, so I'm quite happy to buy one second-hand.

I have DECT too (but as far as I can see as I won't be buying telephony
from BT or EE, that means I have to plug my DECT base into a POTS
socket.

I don't need a desk phone (unless I choose to put the retro phone on my
desk, at the moment it's in the living room which is far more central in
the house, and easier to locate than my mobile which could be anywhere
in the house where I last put it down).
--
Roland Perry

In message <uvaric$286d8$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:32:11 on Fri, 12 Apr
2024, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> remarked:
>On 12/04/2024 09:01, Tweed wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uv95lf$1q2ms$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:12:15 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uv8fmh$1l97u$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:14 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>>>> 2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
>>>>>>> DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
>>>>>>> Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
>>>>>>> yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
>>>>>>> Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
>>>>>>> that, marked "do not use".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's from someone with FTTP.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
>>>>>> modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
>>>>>> installations.
>>>>>
>>>>> The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
>>>>> socket is a mystery.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
>>>>>>> BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
>>>>>>> DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
>>>>>> Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
>>>>>> solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
>>>>>> know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
>>>>>> be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
>>>>>> be limited to WiFi settings only.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
>>>>>> your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
>>>>>> VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
>>>>>> a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
>>>>>> configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?
>>>>
>>>> Grandstream HT812
>>>>
>>>> https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
>>>> english.pdf
>>>
>>> That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
>>> HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
>>> has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).

>> I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors.
>>Domestic users mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use
>>Ethernet connected desk phones.
>
>I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...

My ISP doesn't supply that.
--
Roland Perry

On 12/04/2024 10:51, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <uvaric$286d8$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:32:11 on Fri, 12 Apr
> 2024, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> remarked:
>> On 12/04/2024 09:01, Tweed wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uv95lf$1q2ms$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:12:15 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uv8fmh$1l97u$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:14 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>>>>> 2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
>>>>>>>> Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
>>>>>>>> yes it  does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
>>>>>>>> Customers  Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
>>>>>>>> that, marked  "do not use".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it's from someone with FTTP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
>>>>>>> modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
>>>>>>> installations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
>>>>>> socket is a mystery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
>>>>>>>> BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no
>>>>>>>> mention of
>>>>>>>> DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
>>>>>>> Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own
>>>>>>> proprietary VoIP
>>>>>>> solutions.  You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
>>>>>>> know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings.  You
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could
>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>> be limited to WiFi settings only.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
>>>>>>> your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an
>>>>>>> ATA or
>>>>>>> VoIP base-station bought independently.  You can then chose any
>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>> a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
>>>>>>> configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?
>>>>>
>>>>> Grandstream HT812
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
>>>>> english.pdf
>>>>
>>>> That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
>>>> HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
>>>> has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).
>
>>>  I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors. Domestic
>>> users  mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use Ethernet
>>> connected desk  phones.
>>
>> I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...
>
> My ISP doesn't supply that.

Many available on E-Bay....

Dave

In message <uvb75a$2bf64$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:50:01 on Fri, 12 Apr
2024, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> remarked:
>On 12/04/2024 10:51, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <uvaric$286d8$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:32:11 on Fri, 12 Apr
>>2024, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> remarked:
>>> On 12/04/2024 09:01, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uv95lf$1q2ms$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:12:15 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <uv8fmh$1l97u$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:14 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>>>>>> 2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range
>>>>>>>>> DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two". Anyway, I've
>>>>>>>>>reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and yes it 
>>>>>>>>>does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
>>>>>>>>>Customers  Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket
>>>>>>>>>next to that, marked  "do not use".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, it's from someone with FTTP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
>>>>>>>> modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
>>>>>>>> installations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
>>>>>>> socket is a mystery.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or
>>>>>>>>>only BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes
>>>>>>>>>no mention of DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such
>>>>>>>> Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own
>>>>>>>>proprietary VoIP solutions.  You will be able to log into
>>>>>>>>Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't know whether you get any option to
>>>>>>>>manage the VoIP settings.  You may be able to see some
>>>>>>>>settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well be limited to WiFi settings only.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one
>>>>>>>>suited to your other requirements, such as VPN support),
>>>>>>>>coupled with an ATA or VoIP base-station bought
>>>>>>>>independently.  You can then chose any one of a number of
>>>>>>>>VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary configuration
>>>>>>>>details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Grandstream HT812
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
>>>>>> english.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
>>>>> HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
>>>>> has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).
>>
>>>>  I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors.
>>>>Domestic users  mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use
>>>>Ethernet connected desk  phones.
>>>
>>> I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...

>> My ISP doesn't supply that.
>
>Many available on E-Bay....

I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?

As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
that.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <uvb75a$2bf64$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:50:01 on Fri, 12 Apr
> 2024, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> remarked:
>> On 12/04/2024 10:51, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uvaric$286d8$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:32:11 on Fri, 12 Apr
>>> 2024, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> remarked:
>>>> On 12/04/2024 09:01, Tweed wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uv95lf$1q2ms$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:12:15 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>>>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <uv8fmh$1l97u$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:14 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>>>>>>> 2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range
>>>>>>>>>> DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two". Anyway, I've
>>>>>>>>>> reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and yes it 
>>>>>>>>>> does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
>>>>>>>>>> Customers  Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket
>>>>>>>>>> next to that, marked  "do not use".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, it's from someone with FTTP.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
>>>>>>>>> modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
>>>>>>>>> installations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
>>>>>>>> socket is a mystery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or
>>>>>>>>>> only BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes
>>>>>>>>>> no mention of DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such
>>>>>>>>> Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own
>>>>>>>>> proprietary VoIP solutions.  You will be able to log into
>>>>>>>>> Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't know whether you get any option to
>>>>>>>>> manage the VoIP settings.  You may be able to see some
>>>>>>>>> settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well be limited to
>>>>>>>>> WiFi settings only.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one
>>>>>>>>> suited to your other requirements, such as VPN support),
>>>>>>>>> coupled with an ATA or VoIP base-station bought
>>>>>>>>> independently.  You can then chose any one of a number of
>>>>>>>>> VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary configuration
>>>>>>>>> details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Grandstream HT812
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
>>>>>>> english.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
>>>>>> HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
>>>>>> has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).
>>>
>>>>>  I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors.
>>>>> Domestic users  mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use
>>>>> Ethernet connected desk  phones.
>>>>
>>>> I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...
>
>>> My ISP doesn't supply that.
>>
>> Many available on E-Bay....
>
> I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
> even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
>
> As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
> that.

Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Tweed wrote:

> Roland Perry wrote:
>
>> I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
>> even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
>>
>> As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
>> that.
>
> Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
with your own router.

Roland Perry wrote:

[snip]

>
> I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
> even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
>
> As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
> that.

Your ISP will tell you the necessary login and password to put into the
router to establish a broadband connection.

In the early days of broadband we all had to do this for ourselves.
It's only fairly recently that ISPs have provided an autoconfiguration
mechanism for the routers that they supply - and that often goes wrong
if they haven't configured their systems correctly.

Your VoIP provider will tell you the parameters required for you to put
into the IP phone component of the Fritz!Box router.

It is fair to say that if you have a problem, your ISP may expect you to
use the router that they supplied before they will talk to you about
diagnosing the problem. Awkward if you don't have an internet
connection and are reliant on a VoIP system - especially when you live
in an area without mobile coverage!

--
Graham J

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Tweed wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
>>> even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
>>> that.
>>
>> Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.
>
> Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
> with your own router.
>
>
>

Isn’t the point to use somebody else’s VoIP service?

Tweed wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Tweed wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
>>>> even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
>>>>
>>>> As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
>>>> that.
>>>
>>> Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.
>>
>> Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
>> with your own router.
>
> Isn’t the point to use somebody else’s VoIP service?
Can't remember what the O/P actually wants to do voice-wise...

Tweed wrote:

[snip]
>
> Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.
>

That may be true where the fibre supplier provides an ONT.

Many fibre suppliers (such as County Broadband) provide a router with
the ONT integrated within it. So far as I have been able to establish
the suppliers do not provide management information for these routers,
so that you cannot - for example - configure them in modem mode so as to
use your own router for VPN support.

--
Graham J

On 14/04/2024 13:25, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <uvb75a$2bf64$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:50:01 on Fri, 12 Apr
> 2024, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> remarked:
>> On 12/04/2024 10:51, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uvaric$286d8$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:32:11 on Fri, 12 Apr
>>> 2024, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> remarked:
>>>> On 12/04/2024 09:01, Tweed wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uv95lf$1q2ms$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:12:15 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>>>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <uv8fmh$1l97u$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:14 on Thu,
>>>>>>>> 11 Apr
>>>>>>>> 2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range
>>>>>>>>>>  DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two". Anyway, I've
>>>>>>>>>> reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and  yes it
>>>>>>>>>> does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
>>>>>>>>>> Customers  Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket
>>>>>>>>>> next to  that, marked  "do not use".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, it's from someone with FTTP.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a
>>>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>>> modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
>>>>>>>>> installations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the
>>>>>>>> mystery
>>>>>>>> socket is a mystery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or
>>>>>>>>>> only  BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes
>>>>>>>>>> no  mention of  DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such
>>>>>>>>>  Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own
>>>>>>>>> proprietary VoIP  solutions.  You will be able to log into
>>>>>>>>> Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't  know whether you get any option to
>>>>>>>>> manage the VoIP settings.  You  may  be able to see some
>>>>>>>>> settings in the BT Hub but any changes could  well  be limited
>>>>>>>>> to WiFi settings only.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one
>>>>>>>>> suited to  your other requirements, such as VPN support),
>>>>>>>>> coupled with an  ATA or  VoIP base-station bought
>>>>>>>>> independently.  You can then chose any  one of  a number of
>>>>>>>>> VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary  configuration
>>>>>>>>> details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS
>>>>>>>> phone?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Grandstream HT812
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
>>>>>>> english.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
>>>>>> HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or
>>>>>> not (it
>>>>>> has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).
>>>
>>>>>  I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors. Domestic
>>>>> users  mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use Ethernet
>>>>> connected desk  phones.
>>>>
>>>> I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...
>
>>>  My ISP doesn't supply that.
>>
>> Many available on E-Bay....
>
> I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
> even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
>
> As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
> that.

You don't need to. You can use it as a downstream router, or switch, or
hub and just use the VOIP portion. I have a very locked-down fibre
service in Spain, and I just plugged the Fritz!box into that.

Or you can ask your ISP what you need to authenticate. Most will tell
you. If its BT there are none, well some default ones which google will
find.

Its the ONT that actually filters the data so they don't need an ID an
password.

In many cases the router isn't pre-configured, it uses a remote
configuration to obtain its setting.

Dave

On 14/04/2024 14:10, Graham J wrote:
> Tweed wrote:
>
> [snip]
>>
>> Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.
>>
>
> That may be true where the fibre supplier provides an ONT.
>
> Many fibre suppliers (such as County Broadband) provide a router with
> the ONT integrated within it.  So far as I have been able to establish
> the suppliers do not provide management information for these routers,
> so that you cannot - for example - configure them in modem mode so as to
> use your own router for VPN support.
>

Well the FAQ says that County Broadband can set the router into Bridge
Mode so you can use your own router...

https://service.countybroadband.co.uk/index.php?rp=/knowledgebase/47/Full-Fibre-FAQs.html

Not sure if they use CGNAT if so you may need a fixed IP4 address for
which they charge £5/month.

Dave

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:53:59 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

> Tweed wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
>>> even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
>>> that.
>>
>> Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.
>
> Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
> with your own router.

That's perfectly OK with AAISP. As I know.

I can't see why that would be a problem.

Bob Eager wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>>> Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.
>>
>> Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
>> with your own router.
>
> That's perfectly OK with AAISP. As I know.
>
> I can't see why that would be a problem.

It wouldn't be a problem with most 3rd party VoIP providers, but most
(all?) ISPs who provide a bundled "Digital Voice" service as part of a
broadband offering seem reluctant to give credentials and proxy/stun
server details ...

Presumably you buy SIP/RTP services from AA separately from your FTTP
service?

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 17:41:01 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

> Bob Eager wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>>> Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.
>>>
>>> Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
>>> with your own router.
>>
>> That's perfectly OK with AAISP. As I know.
>>
>> I can't see why that would be a problem.
>
> It wouldn't be a problem with most 3rd party VoIP providers, but most
> (all?) ISPs who provide a bundled "Digital Voice" service as part of a
> broadband offering seem reluctant to give credentials and proxy/stun
> server details ...
>
> Presumably you buy SIP/RTP services from AA separately from your FTTP
> service?

Well, I pay a separate fee (£1.20 plus VAT per number per month). And a
small amount for call charges. But it all comes on the one bill.

In message <l821v8Fff6cU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:53:59 on Sun, 14
Apr 2024, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> remarked:
>Tweed wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
>>> even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
>>> that.
>> Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine
>>does.
>
>Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
>with your own router.

I wouldn't want to use *their* VoIP service, Dear Liza. Indeed, I have
not subscribed to it. The whole point is to be able to use someone
else's.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uvgj34$3ktkn$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:44:20 on Sun, 14 Apr
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uvb75a$2bf64$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:50:01 on Fri, 12 Apr
>> 2024, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> remarked:
>>> On 12/04/2024 10:51, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uvaric$286d8$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:32:11 on Fri, 12 Apr
>>>> 2024, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> remarked:
>>>>> On 12/04/2024 09:01, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <uv95lf$1q2ms$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:12:15 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>>>>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <uv8fmh$1l97u$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:14 on Thu, 11 Apr
>>>>>>>>> 2024, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range
>>>>>>>>>>> DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two". Anyway, I've
>>>>>>>>>>> reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and yes it 
>>>>>>>>>>> does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
>>>>>>>>>>> Customers  Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket
>>>>>>>>>>> next to that, marked  "do not use".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, it's from someone with FTTP.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
>>>>>>>>>> modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
>>>>>>>>>> installations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
>>>>>>>>> socket is a mystery.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or
>>>>>>>>>>> only BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes
>>>>>>>>>>> no mention of DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such
>>>>>>>>>> Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own
>>>>>>>>>> proprietary VoIP solutions.  You will be able to log into
>>>>>>>>>> Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't know whether you get any option to
>>>>>>>>>> manage the VoIP settings.  You may be able to see some
>>>>>>>>>> settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well be limited to
>>>>>>>>>> WiFi settings only.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one
>>>>>>>>>> suited to your other requirements, such as VPN support),
>>>>>>>>>> coupled with an ATA or VoIP base-station bought
>>>>>>>>>> independently.  You can then chose any one of a number of
>>>>>>>>>> VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary configuration
>>>>>>>>>> details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Grandstream HT812
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet
>>>>>>>>_ht812_ english.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
>>>>>>> HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
>>>>>>> has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).
>>>>
>>>>>>  I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors.
>>>>>> Domestic users  mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use
>>>>>> Ethernet connected desk  phones.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...
>>
>>>> My ISP doesn't supply that.
>>>
>>> Many available on E-Bay....
>>
>> I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
>> even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
>>
>> As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
>> that.
>
>Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Mine provides its own router, and gives no indication it would assist me
in setting up a third party one.
--
Roland Perry

In message <l822lvFff69U1@mid.individual.net>, at 14:06:06 on Sun, 14
Apr 2024, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> remarked:
>Tweed wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
>>>>> even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
>>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.
>>>
>>> Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
>>> with your own router.

>> Isn’t the point to use somebody else’s VoIP service?
>
>Can't remember what the O/P actually wants to do voice-wise...

You could always re-read my original posting:

"I'd like to retain my retro dial phone with bells, and connect it to a
'box' which will, like the Openreach gubbins, be powered from a UPS, and
service a geographic VoIP number that's currently with Gradwell (but
they are too expensive)."
--
Roland Perry

In message <l82uchFi06hU2@mid.individual.net>, at 20:58:57 on Sun, 14
Apr 2024, Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> remarked:
>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 17:41:01 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Bob Eager wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.
>>>>
>>>> Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
>>>> with your own router.
>>>
>>> That's perfectly OK with AAISP. As I know.
>>>
>>> I can't see why that would be a problem.
>>
>> It wouldn't be a problem with most 3rd party VoIP providers, but most
>> (all?) ISPs who provide a bundled "Digital Voice" service as part of a
>> broadband offering seem reluctant to give credentials and proxy/stun
>> server details ...
>>
>> Presumably you buy SIP/RTP services from AA separately from your FTTP
>> service?
>
>Well, I pay a separate fee (£1.20 plus VAT per number per month). And a
>small amount for call charges. But it all comes on the one bill.

The old ISP provided voice service over POTS as part of the FTTC
offering. But the call charges were preposterous (30p connection
charge plus 20p/minute for inland calls), which is one reason I'm
ditching them.
--
Roland Perry