Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 18:24, Tweed wrote:
>> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/07/2023 15:09, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>> On 10/07/2023 15:00, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 13:18:08 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is the whole reason for phasing out land lines via copper a ploy to
>>>>>>> give everyone broadband whether they want it or not?
>>>>>> Well, the BBC are now floating the idea to add the TV licence onto
>>>>>> broadband prices ...
>>>>> That will only apply to iPlayer users and I'm not one of them.
>>>>>
>>>> I think you'll find that the idea is a levy will be added to ALL
>>>> broadband contracts, so it's irrelevant whether or not you use iplayer.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yep. Idea's been around a while. BBC floated it in March 2020. As with
>>> most wizzy ideas for new taxes, no details - e.g. mobile as well as
>>> wire/fibre? Flat rate or % of broadband fee or what? (E.g. what about
>>> household with fibre + 4 mobile contracts? What about the employer-paid
>>> contract for WTF?) But I suspect the killer argument is one the HoL made
>>> last year: could end up no more progressive than the licence fee and may
>>> discourage poor households from having broadband with nasty effects on
>>> kids education.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It will end up on the council tax, just as Police, Fire etc are added. Easy
>> to administer and hard to avoid. CT has reductions for single person
>> households, the hard up etc.
>>
>
> I've not seen the proponents of that address the fact that local
> taxation is a devolved matter. (Hence e.g. there is no council tax in NI.)
>
Ok, let’s rephrase that as it will be added to your local property tax.
Germany manages it and they are very devolved.

On 10/07/2023 19:32, Tweed wrote:
> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>> On 10/07/2023 18:24, Tweed wrote:
>>> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/07/2023 15:09, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>> On 10/07/2023 15:00, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 13:18:08 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is the whole reason for phasing out land lines via copper a ploy to
>>>>>>>> give everyone broadband whether they want it or not?
>>>>>>> Well, the BBC are now floating the idea to add the TV licence onto
>>>>>>> broadband prices ...
>>>>>> That will only apply to iPlayer users and I'm not one of them.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I think you'll find that the idea is a levy will be added to ALL
>>>>> broadband contracts, so it's irrelevant whether or not you use iplayer.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yep. Idea's been around a while. BBC floated it in March 2020. As with
>>>> most wizzy ideas for new taxes, no details - e.g. mobile as well as
>>>> wire/fibre? Flat rate or % of broadband fee or what? (E.g. what about
>>>> household with fibre + 4 mobile contracts? What about the employer-paid
>>>> contract for WTF?) But I suspect the killer argument is one the HoL made
>>>> last year: could end up no more progressive than the licence fee and may
>>>> discourage poor households from having broadband with nasty effects on
>>>> kids education.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> It will end up on the council tax, just as Police, Fire etc are added. Easy
>>> to administer and hard to avoid. CT has reductions for single person
>>> households, the hard up etc.
>>>
>>
>> I've not seen the proponents of that address the fact that local
>> taxation is a devolved matter. (Hence e.g. there is no council tax in NI.)
>>
> Ok, let’s rephrase that as it will be added to your local property tax.
> Germany manages it and they are very devolved.
>

That's exactly *not* what Germany does.

Germany charges a flat rate licence fee[1] - currently 18.36 euros per
month - per household. There are exemptions - e.g. for those getting
some means-tested benefits, disabled and students on grants. But
otherwise it's the same, flat rate whether the household is pensioner
living alone in a studio flat or a family of 6 in a Regents Park
mansion. That's the antithesis of what most proponents of using the
council tax want - a progressive charge.

And the fee is not added to local property tax. It's paid direct to the
"Beitragsservice"

[1] NB the term they use - see
https://www.rundfunkbeitrag.de/welcome/englisch/index_ger.html#the_licence_fee

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 19:32, Tweed wrote:
>> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/07/2023 18:24, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/07/2023 15:09, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/07/2023 15:00, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 13:18:08 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> is the whole reason for phasing out land lines via copper a ploy to
>>>>>>>>> give everyone broadband whether they want it or not?
>>>>>>>> Well, the BBC are now floating the idea to add the TV licence onto
>>>>>>>> broadband prices ...
>>>>>>> That will only apply to iPlayer users and I'm not one of them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you'll find that the idea is a levy will be added to ALL
>>>>>> broadband contracts, so it's irrelevant whether or not you use iplayer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep. Idea's been around a while. BBC floated it in March 2020. As with
>>>>> most wizzy ideas for new taxes, no details - e.g. mobile as well as
>>>>> wire/fibre? Flat rate or % of broadband fee or what? (E.g. what about
>>>>> household with fibre + 4 mobile contracts? What about the employer-paid
>>>>> contract for WTF?) But I suspect the killer argument is one the HoL made
>>>>> last year: could end up no more progressive than the licence fee and may
>>>>> discourage poor households from having broadband with nasty effects on
>>>>> kids education.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It will end up on the council tax, just as Police, Fire etc are added. Easy
>>>> to administer and hard to avoid. CT has reductions for single person
>>>> households, the hard up etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've not seen the proponents of that address the fact that local
>>> taxation is a devolved matter. (Hence e.g. there is no council tax in NI.)
>>>
>> Ok, let’s rephrase that as it will be added to your local property tax.
>> Germany manages it and they are very devolved.
>>
>
> That's exactly *not* what Germany does.
>
> Germany charges a flat rate licence fee[1] - currently 18.36 euros per
> month - per household. There are exemptions - e.g. for those getting
> some means-tested benefits, disabled and students on grants. But
> otherwise it's the same, flat rate whether the household is pensioner
> living alone in a studio flat or a family of 6 in a Regents Park
> mansion. That's the antithesis of what most proponents of using the
> council tax want - a progressive charge.
>
> And the fee is not added to local property tax. It's paid direct to the
> "Beitragsservice"
>
>
>
>
> [1] NB the term they use - see
> https://www.rundfunkbeitrag.de/welcome/englisch/index_ger.html#the_licence_fee
>

Ah, things have changed since I lived in Germany 40 years ago.
Anyway, I’m fairly sure the BBC will end up being paid for from domestic
property taxes. A broadband tax is far too complicated.

In message <u8hqg9$2kg3u$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 10 Jul 2023 20:42:49,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> writes
[]
>Ah, things have changed since I lived in Germany 40 years ago.
>Anyway, I’m fairly sure the BBC will end up being paid for from domestic
>property taxes. A broadband tax is far too complicated.
>
Given there are big changes coming _anyway_, with the end of POTS, I can
see the _possibility_ of a new universal "broadband obligation". I
suspect it won't happen, but (IMO, of course) I think it'd on balance be
a Good Thing. Whether the BBC could be incorporated at the same time is
another question (and I can see both sides of that one).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Only dirty people need wash

On Mon, 10 Jul 23 18:00:02 UTC, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

>> In the 60s some areas of NW Scotland and the isles got electricity
>> around about the same time as TV signals arrived I think ?
>
>When I was on South Uist (mid '70s) checking new transmitter coverage, a
>lady came out of her house and "we haven't got the electric". So, you're
>right

In the 60s, a rented cottage near Aviemore that our family sometimes
went to on holiday only had 'the electric' in the toilet - an Ever
Ready 996 battery wired through a wall mounted switch to a 6 volt
torch bulb in a little batten holder on the ceiling. In the living
room when it began to get dark we lit the Tilley lamp.

Rod.

On 10/07/2023 19:00, charles wrote:
> When I was on South Uist (mid '70s) checking new transmitter coverage, a
> lady came out of her house and "we haven't got the electric". So, you're
> right

I think by that time, it would often be small groups of houses that were
below the threshold needed to get a transmitter,

On 10/07/2023 19:27, Robin wrote:
> I've not seen the proponents of that address the fact that local
> taxation is a devolved matter. (Hence e.g. there is no council tax in NI.)

In Scotland, don't the SNP tend to often not enforce enforcement of
non-payment of council tax?

In article <u8itt6$2rkio$1@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 19:00, charles wrote:
> > When I was on South Uist (mid '70s) checking new transmitter coverage, a
> > lady came out of her house and "we haven't got the electric". So, you're
> > right

> I think by that time, it would often be small groups of houses that were
> below the threshold needed to get a transmitter,

The 4 houses in that location were perfectly served for TV, just no mains
electricity

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Jul 23 18:00:02 UTC, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >> In the 60s some areas of NW Scotland and the isles got electricity
> >> around about the same time as TV signals arrived I think ?
> >
> >When I was on South Uist (mid '70s) checking new transmitter coverage, a
> >lady came out of her house and "we haven't got the electric". So, you're
> >right
>
> In the 60s, a rented cottage near Aviemore that our family sometimes
> went to on holiday only had 'the electric' in the toilet - an Ever
> Ready 996 battery wired through a wall mounted switch to a 6 volt
> torch bulb in a little batten holder on the ceiling. In the living
> room when it began to get dark we lit the Tilley lamp.

Have you tried buying paraffin for Tilley lamps recently? Only one
shop around here stocks it now.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

> Have you tried buying paraffin for Tilley lamps recently? Only one
> shop around here stocks it now.

B&Q do, and some garden centres, google says The Range, Homebase and
most heating oils suppliers ...

Well as I have said elsewhere, I think that in the main if I do have an
internet connection, I'd not use the wifi one for my Samsung since it seems
far more reliable directly wired to the router. However, said set only 2020
seems in its latest apps to have lost the ability to speak with the internal
voiceview or whatever Samsung call it, ie its fine on terrestrial and
settings, so most people seem to be going down the firestick route which of
course puts you back on wifi and adds yet another remote control to have to
find. Sigh.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message
news:fpQxi2Xm8ArkFwzJ@255soft.uk...
> In message <jvknaidlhjvlo6set46mt5348jk8t168mr@4ax.com> at Mon, 10 Jul
> 2023 10:51:11, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 13:47:21 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
>>wrote:
> []
>>>Of course, the new text includes "You can watch BBC Four programmes at
>>>any time on BBC iPlayer on your TV", which of course is untrue (I wonder
>>>for what proportion of the viewership, especially of BBC4)?
>>>
>>>[In other words, I wonder what proportion of TV sets actually in use are
>>>both "smart" and actually connected.]
>>
>><pedant_mode> You can watch 'the programmes' at any time just not
>>necessarily contemporaneous with broadcast just as you can watch films
>>on Netflix at any time /<pedant_mode>
>
> <pedant>You can only "watch . iPlayer on your TV" if you have (a) a smart
> TV (b) a broadband connection, and (c) the two are connected. The
> incessant plugging of iPlayer (e. g. "press red to watch it") _never_
> mentions any of these, all of which are _in addition to_ what the person
> they are plugging it to has to have done to receive the plugs.</pedant>
>
> I haven't seen the national lottery use the "it could be you" advertising
> line for a while; I wonder if that's because it's incomplete without "if
> you buy a ticket", and they'd had their knuckles rapped and/or too many
> complaints.
>
> I wondered about leaving off the "</pedant>", as I usually operate in
> somewhat-pedant mode anyway. (-:
> --
> J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
>
> My friend David had his ID stolen - now he's just Dav

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
>
> > Have you tried buying paraffin for Tilley lamps recently? Only one
> > shop around here stocks it now.
>
> B&Q do, and some garden centres, google says The Range, Homebase and
> most heating oils suppliers ...

Damn! There goes my excuse for not doing the ironing with my
paraffin-powered Tilley iron.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> *IF* the solution _is_ to actually _give_ everyone broadband - i. e.
> provide it at no more than the line rental charge - then I'd accept it*,
> but I very much doubt either the government or the ISPs have any
> intention of doing away with that revenue stream. I've thought for some
> time that the splitting of the charge into line rental and broadband is
> increasingly arbitrary (and leads to many dishonest marketing
> practices), but without legislation - from a government that knows what
> it's doing, so that's a pipedream - it won't happen.

Splitting broadband and line rental for marketing purposes has been banned
since 2016:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/05/advert-watchdog-forces-uk-isps-include-line-rental-broadband-price.html

(there may be non-marketing places it still lurks, eg pricing breakdowns on
customers bills. But those breakdowns are largely fictional)

Theo

On 11 Jul 2023 12:10:09 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Splitting broadband and line rental for marketing purposes has been banned
>since 2016:
>https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/05/advert-watchdog-forces-uk-isps-include-line-rental-broadband-price.html

Soon to be irrelevant, as there won't be a line to rent.

Rod.

"Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:H9j*K40kz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> *IF* the solution _is_ to actually _give_ everyone broadband - i. e.
>> provide it at no more than the line rental charge - then I'd accept it*,
>> but I very much doubt either the government or the ISPs have any
>> intention of doing away with that revenue stream. I've thought for some
>> time that the splitting of the charge into line rental and broadband is
>> increasingly arbitrary (and leads to many dishonest marketing
>> practices), but without legislation - from a government that knows what
>> it's doing, so that's a pipedream - it won't happen.
>
> Splitting broadband and line rental for marketing purposes has been banned
> since 2016:
> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/05/advert-watchdog-forces-uk-isps-include-line-rental-broadband-price.html
>
> (there may be non-marketing places it still lurks, eg pricing breakdowns
> on
> customers bills. But those breakdowns are largely fictional)

I suppose you can infer the cost of broadband by subtracting the line rental
only (for someone who has no broadband) from the fixed rental cost of a
broadband-enabled line from the same provider - either from marketing
information or from specific customer bills.

You don't have to use wi-fi with a Firestick. They do an ethernet
adaptor for about £15 specifically designed for their Firesticks, as
it has a 5V power input.

I couldn't easily get ethernet to my AV reck, but a wi-fi bridge with
external aerials on top of it gets a good signal, so I distribute this
by ethernet to everything within the rack that requires it.

If you get the superduperdeluxe Fire remote control, one of its
features is that you can tell Alexa to find it and it will make a
noise of some sort, though as I don't use Alexa myself I haven't been
able to try this.

Rod

On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 11:31:24 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
<brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:

>Well as I have said elsewhere, I think that in the main if I do have an
>internet connection, I'd not use the wifi one for my Samsung since it seems
>far more reliable directly wired to the router. However, said set only 2020
>seems in its latest apps to have lost the ability to speak with the internal
>voiceview or whatever Samsung call it, ie its fine on terrestrial and
>settings, so most people seem to be going down the firestick route which of
>course puts you back on wifi and adds yet another remote control to have to
>find. Sigh.
> Brian

"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ugeqaitavj7nbf47916798nsttcuj0th80@4ax.com...
> On 11 Jul 2023 12:10:09 +0100 (BST), Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>Splitting broadband and line rental for marketing purposes has been banned
>>since 2016:
>>https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/05/advert-watchdog-forces-uk-isps-include-line-rental-broadband-price.html
>
> Soon to be irrelevant, as there won't be a line to rent.

Won't there? What about people with FTTP (after POTS has been withdrawn) who
only want a phone line for phone calls and don't need/want broadband? Will
they be charged a lower monthly charge than some who wants broadband? How
are VOIP phone calls charged? I imagine if VOIP costs money, there will be a
rise in Skype etc calls - though I imagine many people already use Skype for
international calls, even if it's initiated as an email to say "Can you be
at your computer at xx:00 GMT so I can call you by Skype". I presume Skype
etc has made a big dent into phone call revenues, especially international
ones where calls charges are higher and are not covered by call plans.

Roderick Stewart wrote:

> You don't have to use wi-fi with a Firestick. They do an ethernet
> adaptor

similar for chromecasts, you can either use a USB PSU with inbuilt
ethernet port, or use a USB hub and the plug an ethernet dongle (and
keyboard if required) into the hub (I haven't tried the hub method).

In message <H9j*K40kz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> at Tue, 11 Jul 2023
12:10:09, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes
>J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> *IF* the solution _is_ to actually _give_ everyone broadband - i. e.
>> provide it at no more than the line rental charge - then I'd accept it*,
>> but I very much doubt either the government or the ISPs have any
>> intention of doing away with that revenue stream. I've thought for some
>> time that the splitting of the charge into line rental and broadband is
>> increasingly arbitrary (and leads to many dishonest marketing
>> practices), but without legislation - from a government that knows what
>> it's doing, so that's a pipedream - it won't happen.
>
>Splitting broadband and line rental for marketing purposes has been banned
>since 2016:
>https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/05/advert-watchdog-forces-uk-
>isps-include-line-rental-broadband-price.html

Thanks; I wasn't aware that had been done!
>
>(there may be non-marketing places it still lurks, eg pricing breakdowns on
>customers bills. But those breakdowns are largely fictional)

Oh, a PlusNet bill is labyrinthine. (Other ISPs may be too.)
>
>Theo
John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Personally, I don't like the Senate idea, I don't like the idea of having to
elect another bunch of overpaid incompetents. I don't like the idea of having
wholesale appointments by the PM of the day for domination of the second
chamber. I like anachronism. I like the idea of a bunch of unelected congenital
idiots getting in the way of a bunch of conmen. - Charles F. Hankel, 1998-3-19.

On 10/07/2023 17:56, Andy Burns wrote:
> Robin wrote:
>
>> As with most wizzy ideas for new taxes, no details - e.g. mobile as
>> well as wire/fibre? Flat rate or % of broadband fee or what?
>
> Maybe they fancy linking the licence price to something that's on the
> inflation+X% model?

I note that no-one's found where the 3.9% as in inflation+3.9% comes
from. A rather odd figure.

--
Max Demian

In message <ugeqaitavj7nbf47916798nsttcuj0th80@4ax.com> at Tue, 11 Jul
2023 12:17:25, Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes
>On 11 Jul 2023 12:10:09 +0100 (BST), Theo
><theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>Splitting broadband and line rental for marketing purposes has been banned
>>since 2016:
>>https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/05/advert-watchdog-forces-uk
>>-isps-include-line-rental-broadband-price.html
>
>Soon to be irrelevant, as there won't be a line to rent.
>
>Rod.

There will be a line - either fibre or copper. Whether charging
separately for its rental will cease (as I think it already has for FTTC
people), we'll have to wait to see - I hope so.

Where the service provision is a flat fee (not usage-dependent), having
a separate component for the "line rental" is silly, and confusing. In
the days when we paid for usage - in the original case, paying for
'phone calls (and early broadband where it was per megabyte, but that
was IIRR never very common), then having a separate fee to cover
maintenance made sense, or at least was acceptable.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Personally, I don't like the Senate idea, I don't like the idea of having to
elect another bunch of overpaid incompetents. I don't like the idea of having
wholesale appointments by the PM of the day for domination of the second
chamber. I like anachronism. I like the idea of a bunch of unelected congenital
idiots getting in the way of a bunch of conmen. - Charles F. Hankel, 1998-3-19.

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ugeqaitavj7nbf47916798nsttcuj0th80@4ax.com...
> > On 11 Jul 2023 12:10:09 +0100 (BST), Theo
> > <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >>Splitting broadband and line rental for marketing purposes has been banned
> >>since 2016:
> >>https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/05/advert-watchdog-forces-uk-isps-include-line-rental-broadband-price.html
> >
> > Soon to be irrelevant, as there won't be a line to rent.
>
> Won't there? What about people with FTTP (after POTS has been withdrawn) who
> only want a phone line for phone calls and don't need/want broadband? Will
> they be charged a lower monthly charge than some who wants broadband? How
> are VOIP phone calls charged? I imagine if VOIP costs money, there will be a
> rise in Skype etc calls - though I imagine many people already use Skype for
> international calls, even if it's initiated as an email to say "Can you be
> at your computer at xx:00 GMT so I can call you by Skype". I presume Skype
> etc has made a big dent into phone call revenues, especially international
> ones where calls charges are higher and are not covered by call plans.

They will offer you a 512Kbps broadband service and a router into which you
plug in your phone to get digital voice service. I'm not sure whether you
get access to the broadband on that tariff or whether they disable those
interfaces of the router.

Once upon a time 'line rental' was purely the standing charge for a phone
service, but in the last 20 years it's become this weird bucket into which
ISPs throw charges they want to hide ('free broadband*' - not it isn't free,
you just threw the cost into the line rental bucket and hoped we didn't
notice).

On FTTP we're back to the situation where you just pay a monthly standing
charge for the connection and it doesn't matter what kind of traffic you
put over it (internet, phone, TV, etc). Whether that's called line rental
or something else doesn't really matter.

Whether you'll pay less for a phone-only FTTP service remains to be seen - I
don't think deploying that has been a priority while copper lines are still
in place. No doubt that will change as copper is decommissioned.

Theo

Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 17:56, Andy Burns wrote:
> > Robin wrote:
> >
> >> As with most wizzy ideas for new taxes, no details - e.g. mobile as
> >> well as wire/fibre? Flat rate or % of broadband fee or what?
> >
> > Maybe they fancy linking the licence price to something that's on the
> > inflation+X% model?
>
> I note that no-one's found where the 3.9% as in inflation+3.9% comes
> from. A rather odd figure.

BT came up with it, and everyone else decided they didn't want to 'miss a
revenue opportunity' by picking a lower figure:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/27/why-are-uk-telecoms-firms-imposing-inflation-busting-bills

In message <H9j*sj1kz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> at Tue, 11 Jul 2023
13:21:29, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes
>Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> On 10/07/2023 17:56, Andy Burns wrote:
>> > Robin wrote:
>> >
>> >> As with most wizzy ideas for new taxes, no details - e.g. mobile as
>> >> well as wire/fibre? Flat rate or % of broadband fee or what?
>> >
>> > Maybe they fancy linking the licence price to something that's on the
>> > inflation+X% model?
>>
>> I note that no-one's found where the 3.9% as in inflation+3.9% comes
>> from. A rather odd figure.
>
>BT came up with it, and everyone else decided they didn't want to 'miss a
>revenue opportunity' by picking a lower figure:
>
>https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/27/why-are-uk-telecoms-fir
>ms-imposing-inflation-busting-bills

Yes, it's pretty universal (PlusNet been doing it since 2020, as with
several of the others in the table in the above). Just seems an odd
figure - the .9 part gives the feeling it's just under some threshold or
something.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Personally, I don't like the Senate idea, I don't like the idea of having to
elect another bunch of overpaid incompetents. I don't like the idea of having
wholesale appointments by the PM of the day for domination of the second
chamber. I like anachronism. I like the idea of a bunch of unelected congenital
idiots getting in the way of a bunch of conmen. - Charles F. Hankel, 1998-3-19.

On 11/07/2023 11:44, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Damn! There goes my excuse for not doing the ironing with my
> paraffin-powered Tilley iron.

It's OK, we have peat powered irons up here. :-)