Isn't there a set of CMD line instructions you can
give me to bring the 'F12 boot options' screen back?

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert

The RAM came today and I installed it but not at the
white slots at the bottom but the black slots at the top.
I also installed the PCI card but couldn't find anywhere
to plug in the molex cable for power?

https://postimg.cc/GTBRdbXr

https://postimg.cc/TyWYTYS0

https://postimg.cc/jCwh2DBY

The 780 detected the additional RAM but I just hit f1
to continue and all is well. I noticed immediately that
the 780 is much faster and responsive than before. It's
more like the 8500 with the same amount of RAM.

I started to run the mini disk but it gave me this so I cancelled
it especially since it isn't connected to a power source.

https://postimg.cc/D8JtPfDq

I ran the memtest86

https://postimg.cc/XGx0m2cd

I tried posting but again it failed.

Robert

On 11/29/2023 5:06 AM, Robert in CA wrote:
> Isn't there a set of CMD line instructions you can
> give me to bring the 'F12 boot options' screen back?
>
> Thoughts/suggestions?
> Robert
>

That would be a BIOS function.

It might be possible, from within the BIOS setup screen (F2),
to disable the F12 function. You might have a look around
in there, and see if such a thing exists.

I don't think my machines, have a control like that.

What should not get disabled, is the button to access the BIOS.
F2 in this case. F2 can still be protected via a password prompt,
and you can lock down F2 that way (you can press the key if you
want, but the machine can have a password set to prevent anything
good from happening).

It's because of the security features of business class machines,
you don't want them in a public area, unless all the security features
are enabled. It's because people can play jokes, such as set a
password on a machine where the password was not set, and then
the user has no clue what the password is.

But your machine and my machine, don't have those set, and so
whatever our "entry" key is (like F2), we can still use that
and then check the settings for evidence the other key is
turned off.

Paul

I restarted the 8500 and when the screen
went black I hit F2 and was able to access
the BIOS :

https://postimg.cc/Z0yN8YXh

https://postimg.cc/p5xP5Bgr

https://postimg.cc/K1djvtvk

https://postimg.cc/vcKH35nq

https://postimg.cc/1nWZ4ZcC

https://postimg.cc/YhWJBFVy

https://postimg.cc/w1zbKGD

How would I leave if I made changes if any
and save them?

Thanks,
Robert

OIC, picture 6 answered my question.

Robert

Here's a better pic of the installed RAM and PCI card:

https://postimg.cc/xcvwspd1

Robert

I did my mrimg backup on the 780 with PE10.
Luckily, I had made a WinPE10 Rescue CD so I
used that. I had been using PE 5.0 for both computers.
Now the 780 has PE10 but the 8500 is still on PE 5.0
and it has 3.0 ports so could benefit from PE10.

However, until we can fix the 'F12 boot options' screen
problem I can't make a clean Rescue CD or mrimg on
the 8500 so I'm stuck. I mean I could but it would be
tainted like with a virus or malware. I only want clean
mrimgs not ones with issues.

So how do I get my F12 back? Did the F2 pics I provided
help?

If all else fails,, can a mrimg restore fix the F12 problem?

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert

On 12/2/2023 5:50 PM, Robert in CA wrote:
> I did my mrimg backup on the 780 with PE10.
> Luckily, I had made a WinPE10 Rescue CD so I
> used that. I had been using PE 5.0 for both computers.
> Now the 780 has PE10 but the 8500 is still on PE 5.0
> and it has 3.0 ports so could benefit from PE10.
>
> However, until we can fix the 'F12 boot options' screen
> problem I can't make a clean Rescue CD or mrimg on
> the 8500 so I'm stuck. I mean I could but it would be
> tainted like with a virus or malware. I only want clean
> mrimgs not ones with issues.
>
> So how do I get my F12 back? Did the F2 pics I provided
> help?
>
> If all else fails,, can a mrimg restore fix the F12 problem?
>
> Thoughts/suggestions?
> Robert

When you enter the BIOS with F2, there *may* be a setting
in there which switches off F12. I can't find any video with
a review of BIOS screens, sufficient for the job.

But generally, if I look through Google, there are a lot of
cases where "something" is not working on their XPS 8500.

For some people, it's the same problem you've seen. There is a
brand dependency on the keyboard. While it may be an Fn key
that needs to be pressed before pressing F2 (Enter BIOS) or
F12 (popup boot menu), in a lot of cases, the BIOS does not even
show the usual animation at POST. Then, the progress bar is not
seen, and you can't really "time" when you press the keyboard,
because it all happens so fast.

On my laptop, the window to press F2 is only *one second wide*.
It takes me a multitude of attempts, before I get the
timing... just right. Dell is not usually that tight, and
the timing allows maybe 5 seconds or so.

But as for fixing it, nobody seems to be able to root-cause,
what a shortened BIOS POST means. Why does the animation disappear ?
While some BIOS have "Fast Boot" (not to be confused with "Fast Start"
from within Windows 10), I don't think such a thing totally locks
the user out of BIOS interaction.

Paul

Here's my F2 pics:

https://postimg.cc/Z0yN8YXh

https://postimg.cc/p5xP5Bgr

https://postimg.cc/K1djvtvk

https://postimg.cc/vcKH35nq

https://postimg.cc/1nWZ4ZcC

https://postimg.cc/YhWJBFVy

https://postimg.cc/w1zbKGD

Are you saying there's no way to fix this?

The problem isn't timing to click wehn the F12 appears
the problem is that the F12 boot option screen is gone.

I'm use to the F12 boot options screen and it's just as you
say It's only there for a second but I don;t ever remember
seeing an F2?

However, I can still access F2 and F12 when the screen
goes black but this isn't normal. I would like to get my F12
boot options screen back if possible.

Would a mrimg restore fix the problem and bring back the
F12 screen?

Thanks,
Robert

On 12/4/2023 9:09 PM, Robert in CA wrote:
> Here's my F2 pics:
>
> https://postimg.cc/Z0yN8YXh
>
> https://postimg.cc/p5xP5Bgr
>
> https://postimg.cc/K1djvtvk
>
> https://postimg.cc/vcKH35nq
>
> https://postimg.cc/1nWZ4ZcC
>
> https://postimg.cc/YhWJBFVy
>
> https://postimg.cc/w1zbKGD
>
>
> Are you saying there's no way to fix this?
>
> The problem isn't timing to click wehn the F12 appears
> the problem is that the F12 boot option screen is gone.
>
> I'm use to the F12 boot options screen and it's just as you
> say It's only there for a second but I don;t ever remember
> seeing an F2?
>
> However, I can still access F2 and F12 when the screen
> goes black but this isn't normal. I would like to get my F12
> boot options screen back if possible.
>
> Would a mrimg restore fix the problem and bring back the
> F12 screen?
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>

On the Optiplex 780, the control for F12 is in

Post behavior : Post Hotkeys

in the F2 BIOS screen. I cannot find info for the XPS 8500.

*******

Looking at your pictures, the BIOS designs are quite different.

The Optiplex is a "Dell" BIOS.

The XPS 8500 is an APTIO BIOS (commercial BIOS for consumer desktops).

On the Optiplex, the purpose of turning off F12, is to prevent
subversion of the OS by a "visitor to the server room". Entry into
the 780 BIOS, can be password protected. Press F2, you would be
greeted by a request for a password. Without a password, you cannot
modify the BIOS. If the operator turns off F12, and F2 is password protected,
then the "visitor to the server room", cannot make the machine boot
from his CD. Not until, at a minimum, entering some password.

The XPS 8500, your pictures hint that no control like that is present.
Not only is it an APTIO BIOs, it is a "stripped down" APTIO BIOS.

Of your first six pictures (one per main menu item), I don't see anything
that looks like F12 is hiding in there.

I could not see your seventh link, because the URL looks like a character
fell off the end of it. It is missing a character.

*******

Normally, when a BIOS starts, it prints on the screen, the value of the
two keys. The F2 and F12 for example. You can try pressing the "Break" key
when you see that graphic, and pressing "Break" is normally supposed to
stop BIOS IO while you think. Pressing "Break" a second time, allows the
BIOS to continue what it was doing.

I can find lots of references to people having trouble with BIOS interface,
but nobody has a "guaranteed" solution. One of the sources of problems,
is Microsoft keyboards. But in other cases, it seemed to be a corrupted
BIOS setting somewhere. And that was about it, for root causes.

It must have worked at one time.

I hesitate to tell you to reset the BIOS ("clear CMOS"), because
then with a machine like that, we're taking a risk it will go off
on an adventure.

Paul

I couldn't see anything about F12 either when I checked the BIOS
I tried to checking online also but couldn't find anything related to
my problem.

The seventh picture was just a exit from F2

https://postimg.cc/s13Ddqn0

When you say a stripped down APTIO does that mean lack of options?

Well the problem now is there is no F12 to even try pressing the pause/brake
key.

What about doing a mrimg restore? Would that fix it? or do you feel we
should leave well enough alone. Like you said, we don't want to go on any
adventures with the 8500 and it does work and I can access F2 and F12
if need be. I don't want to make things worst, especially since the 780
can't post but I just would like to know if a mrimg could do it or not.

Should I make a WinPE10 Rescue CD for the 8500? and then proceed with a
mrimg?

Aside from the F12 problem and the 780 not being able to post both computers
work quite well and the 780 really benefited from the increase RAM and I assume
the 8500 would benefit from the PE10 with the 3.0 driver.

Robert

I was a bit leery of doing this because the last time I tried it, it
screwed up the 8500 but I have new CD-RW disks so I made
a WinPE10 Rescue CD on the 8500 and it completed successfully.
However when I tried to run it afterward, I pressed F12 to select
CD and all was fine but it wouldn't let me use my up/down arrows
to select the CD player. I tried the arrows on the number pad as well
and nothing.

So I switched the keyboard with the 780 and still nothing but when
I switched my 8500 keyboard back it worked?! what the hell ??? I
don't get it? Why didn't it work before? See what I mean?

I don't want to have to go through this every time I make a mrimg.
The 8500 definitely doesn't like PE10 and this was a new CD-RW I
used but then the problem moved to the keyboard when all was fine.
I may just stick with PE5.0 on the 8500. I didn't have these problems with it.

Robert

Summary:

• We transferred My Bookmarks and My Documents
to the 780 and installed Word and Excel.
• we added 8GB of Corsair RAM giving it 12GB total the same as the 8500
• I created a WinPE10 SD-card used with USB adapter and also a PE10
Rescue CD for the 780
• We went through IE11 on both computers
• I created a WinPE10 CD on the 8500 which caused the F12 boot options
screen to disappear and the second time it messed up my keyboard.
So I'm not using PE10 on the 8500 anymore. It doesn't like it.
• I completed a PE 5.0, V7.2.3906, 64 bit mrimg on the 8500

It looks like we may be done,.. I'll leave the 8500 as is and won't mess
with it and continue to do the mrimgs. I still have the Win 10 hd's we
made.

However, I still would like to know if I needed to use the mrimg restore
would it fix my problems?. I'd just like to know in case we loose contact
and my situation changes.

I hope this isn't the last time we talk

Many thanks for all your good help,
Robert

I hope you saw my last posts but just in case here's a
repeat of the summary:

Summary:

• We transferred My Bookmarks and My Documents
to the 780 and installed Word and Excel.
• we added 8GB of Corsair RAM giving it 12GB total the
same as the 8500. I also installed a PCI card with 3.0 ports
but it didn't have any place to plug in the molex cable so I
left it as is.
• I created a WinPE10 SD-card used with the USB adapter
you helped me pick out and also a PE10 Rescue CD for the 780
• We went through IE11 on both computers
• I created a WinPE10 CD on the 8500 which caused the F12
boot options screen to disappear and the second time with a
new CD-RW it messed up my keyboard. So I'm not using
PE10 on the 8500 anymore. It doesn't like it.
• I completed a PE 5.0, V7.2.3906, 64 bit mrimg on the 8500

In your last message it appears you hadn't seen my
previous posts which included the F2 pics because you
didn't mention them so I included them again in my
reply to you.

It's just as you said it would be awhile back where
the 780 can't post anymore where it use to be able to
and even when I post on the 8500 you can't see half
my posts and maybe I'm not seeing yours? So it's very
iffy now.

I'm kind of puzzled about the 8500's stripped down
APTIO BIOS. I bought it new although it was a custom
order with the 12GB of RAM but I would have thought
they would of put a Dell BIOS in and not a generic
stripped down BIOS?

Is there anything else I should do at this point or
anything you recommend?

Is there a Windows 10 reference book that you would
recommend?

Both computers are running well and I assure you I won't
mess with the 8500 or 780 from this point. They are both
humming along nicely. I will continue to make monthly
mrimgs and hopefully no problems will pop-up but if so,
I'll try contacting you.

Many thanks,
Robert

On 12/5/2023 6:02 PM, Robert in CA wrote:
> I was a bit leery of doing this because the last time I tried it, it
> screwed up the 8500 but I have new CD-RW disks so I made
> a WinPE10 Rescue CD on the 8500 and it completed successfully.
>
> However when I tried to run it afterward, I pressed F12 to select
> CD and all was fine but it wouldn't let me use my up/down arrows
> to select the CD player. I tried the arrows on the number pad as well
> and nothing.
>
> So I switched the keyboard with the 780 and still nothing but when
> I switched my 8500 keyboard back it worked?! what the hell ??? I
> don't get it? Why didn't it work before? See what I mean?
>
> I don't want to have to go through this every time I make a mrimg.
> The 8500 definitely doesn't like PE10 and this was a new CD-RW I
> used but then the problem moved to the keyboard when all was fine.
> I may just stick with PE5.0 on the 8500. I didn't have these problems with it.
>
> Robert

Every subsystem that tries to parse keyboards, only has a limited
set of "models" for keyboard design. Windows for example, understands
three keycounts of keyboards. Likely a full sized keyboard, a compact
(without numpad perhaps). I don't know what the third one is.

Presumably a BIOS has some models for keyboard types as well.

I don't really know anything about the "keyboard path". At one time,
there was some sort of auxiliary processor model, for interfacing to
a keyboard, but whether that is used or needed for USB keyboards,
I don't know the details. The info here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_MCS-48

The original IBM PC keyboard used an 8048 as its internal microcontroller.[7]

https://wiki.osdev.org/%228042%22_PS/2_Controller

There is mention on that second link, of USB Legacy support, which
I think could push single characters into the PS/2 controller
registers or something, making the rest of the machine think
your USB keyboard, was "talking via the PS/2 port".

"The original IBM-PC keyboards (using the old XT interface) used "scan code set 1""

And it's at that point, my eyes start to glaze over :-)

I don't know why it would ignore arrow keys, unless somehow the keycodes
produced are foreign in some way. And no keyboard maker can afford
to be "non-compliant". Or you would be seeing issues at OS level,
with the keyboard. That stuff in the BIOS, is basically 40 years old.

Paul

On 12/7/2023 1:06 AM, Robert in CA wrote:
>
>
>
> I hope you saw my last posts but just in case here's a
> repeat of the summary:
>
> Summary:
>
> • We transferred My Bookmarks and My Documents
> to the 780 and installed Word and Excel.
> • we added 8GB of Corsair RAM giving it 12GB total the
> same as the 8500. I also installed a PCI card with 3.0 ports
> but it didn't have any place to plug in the molex cable so I
> left it as is.
> • I created a WinPE10 SD-card used with the USB adapter
> you helped me pick out and also a PE10 Rescue CD for the 780
> • We went through IE11 on both computers
> • I created a WinPE10 CD on the 8500 which caused the F12
> boot options screen to disappear and the second time with a
> new CD-RW it messed up my keyboard. So I'm not using
> PE10 on the 8500 anymore. It doesn't like it.
> • I completed a PE 5.0, V7.2.3906, 64 bit mrimg on the 8500
>
> In your last message it appears you hadn't seen my
> previous posts which included the F2 pics because you
> didn't mention them so I included them again in my
> reply to you.
>
> It's just as you said it would be awhile back where
> the 780 can't post anymore where it use to be able to
> and even when I post on the 8500 you can't see half
> my posts and maybe I'm not seeing yours? So it's very
> iffy now.
>
> I'm kind of puzzled about the 8500's stripped down
> APTIO BIOS. I bought it new although it was a custom
> order with the 12GB of RAM but I would have thought
> they would of put a Dell BIOS in and not a generic
> stripped down BIOS?
>
> Is there anything else I should do at this point or
> anything you recommend?
>
> Is there a Windows 10 reference book that you would
> recommend?
>
> Both computers are running well and I assure you I won't
> mess with the 8500 or 780 from this point. They are both
> humming along nicely. I will continue to make monthly
> mrimgs and hopefully no problems will pop-up but if so,
> I'll try contacting you.
>
> Many thanks,
> Robert
>

Yesterday, I was out for part of the day, and didn't have
a chance to read posts until later.

It sounds like you've got things squared away OK. I don't
know why the 8500 doesn't like the media. Maybe it has something
to do with the UEFI it understands, but that's only a guess. I
don't have trouble really, with any of the Macrium media here.

It's OK for manufacturers to use a third-party platform. That's
why there are maybe four or five companies that make BIOS for the
rest of the industry. And "turning on" more or less settings,
is what the BIOS developers at places like Dell do, when they use
a product like APTIO.

Dell uses their own BIOS for the server side of the business, for
uniformity and for security design. For the consumer side, like
a lot of other companies, they are happy to use a framework (like
an APTIO) and the provided bring-up code, to speed up the
development process.

My Acer laptop for example, uses an Insyde BIOS, which at the time
I'd never heard of, but it's been used elsewhere so isn't entirely
obscure.

Your USB card, you shouldn't need the Molex auxiliary power, unless
the USB loading is large. The slot connector on the card, the PCI Express,
it has 3.3V and 12V power. Whereas the USB uses 5V. That means the
card design needs a small switching regulator, to convert 12V to 5V.
The switcher cannot produce an infinite amount of power, and
presumably on an overload, it would switch off.

The Molex plug on the other hand, has +5V and +12V. and the +5V
can have up to 20 amperes. But I don't know how the card power
architecture, switches between onboard SMPS and current from the
Molex 5V rail.

All I can tell you, is I've never needed to use the aux power cable
on mine. But I also don't have a very large set of test peripherals,
and for example, something like a USB to NVMe tray could draw a lot
of power. There were initially some of those on Aliexpress, but
I haven't run into any USENETters who have a sample, to ask them
any questions about it.

Paul

I remember we had keyboard problems before and I
used a standard non- eronomic keyboard that came with
the 8500 I believe that got us through the problem.
Unfortunately, I don't have that keyboard anymore which
is why I bought the standard Microsoft ergonomic keyboard
and now is on the 780. I usually use Microsoft 4000
ergonomic keyboards.

My eyes have glazed over many times *L* At any rate I
was able to get it to boot Macrium but the 8500 definitely
doesn't like PE10 for whatever reason. So I'm sticking with
the PE 5.0

So the APTIO BIOS is OK,... just a another customer BIOS
that Dell uses for it's customer base.

I just tried plugging in a Patriot stick to the 3.0 port on the
780 and nothing happened. Do I have to remove the molex
cable? I wouldn't think so since it's not connected to anything.

I used PE10 on the 780 because we wanted it for the 3.0 driver
but one thing I don't like about PE10 is it takes forever to load.
I'm thinking of going back to PE 5.0 on both computers because
I didn't have any problems with it.

Robert

I forgot to run the mini disk on the 780 because I thought
I needed to connect the molex for it to work. So I put the
mini-disk in and this is what it gave me:

https://postimg.cc/PpRCZ4Tr

https://postimg.cc/Hr9j3HdN

I tried the Patriot stick afterwards and still nothing.

Robert

I'm re-posting my last message in case you didn't see it

I forgot to run the mini disk on the 780 because I thought
I needed to connect the molex for it to work. So I put the
mini-disk in and this is what it gave me:

https://postimg.cc/PpRCZ4Tr

https://postimg.cc/Hr9j3HdN

I tried the Patriot stick afterwards and still nothing.

We done everything we can for the 8500 and the 780
but I have one last question.

Can I move My bookmarks and My Documents from
Win 7 to Win 10 when and if the time comes?

I'll leave everything as is and won't touch anything and
will continue making monthly mrimgs.

Robert

On 12/7/2023 3:38 PM, Robert in CA wrote:
> I remember we had keyboard problems before and I
> used a standard non- eronomic keyboard that came with
> the 8500 I believe that got us through the problem.
> Unfortunately, I don't have that keyboard anymore which
> is why I bought the standard Microsoft ergonomic keyboard
> and now is on the 780. I usually use Microsoft 4000
> ergonomic keyboards.
>
> My eyes have glazed over many times *L* At any rate I
> was able to get it to boot Macrium but the 8500 definitely
> doesn't like PE10 for whatever reason. So I'm sticking with
> the PE 5.0
>
> So the APTIO BIOS is OK,... just a another customer BIOS
> that Dell uses for it's customer base.
>
> I just tried plugging in a Patriot stick to the 3.0 port on the
> 780 and nothing happened. Do I have to remove the molex
> cable? I wouldn't think so since it's not connected to anything.
>
> I used PE10 on the 780 because we wanted it for the 3.0 driver
> but one thing I don't like about PE10 is it takes forever to load.
> I'm thinking of going back to PE 5.0 on both computers because
> I didn't have any problems with it.
>
> Robert
>

To "load" a macrium, the boot.wim is loaded into a RAMdisk
created in memory. If you use an optical drive and a CD,
then the CD may load at 5MB/sec and the boot.wim is 300MB.
That means it would take 60 seconds, to load the boot.wim.
If you burn a small CD image, to a larger DVD blank,
the DVD I/O rate is a bit better than the CD case.

If the Macrium Rescue is on a Patriot stick and plugged
into the (bootable) USB2 port, the USB2 port works at
30MB/sec. Now, loading takes ten seconds.

If the Patriot stick was plugged into the 8500 (bootable) USB3
port, then the 300MB file loads faster still, than the
previous two examples. This assumes the Patriot stick
is a USB3 stick (blue tab). The slowest USB sticks
are 100:10 , and reading is at 100MB/sec. If the setup
achieves that rate, the boot.wim loads in 3 seconds.

The largest WinPE ever made, was created by someone on the
Internet, and it loads a very large file, which takes... forever.
Just be glad you're using a Macrium, with one of the smaller
WIM files.

If you do the math, and the I/O rate seems abnormally low,
then maybe there is some issue with the equipment. But I don't
know what would account for it.

Paul

On 12/7/2023 7:11 PM, Robert in CA wrote:
> I forgot to run the mini disk on the 780 because I thought
> I needed to connect the molex for it to work. So I put the
> mini-disk in and this is what it gave me:
>
> https://postimg.cc/PpRCZ4Tr
>
> https://postimg.cc/Hr9j3HdN
>
> I tried the Patriot stick afterwards and still nothing.
>
> Robert
>

I see your message now.

The mini-disc in this case, is a "generic" intended
for several add-on cards. You would look at the
chip on the card, to verify it is a 720202 or whatever.

Yours might be a NEC/Renesas. And the part number begins
with 72xxxx. NEC made a couple chips, one of the chips
has more ports on it than the other.

Once the driver is installed, you should see
an entry in Device Manager. If you don't know how
to find the Device Manager, try this

Start : Run : devmgmt.msc

D720101
D720200
D720201
D720202

The NEC company, changed the chip company name it uses
to Renesas. This was happening, right around the time
the first USB3 chip was released. This is why the 720200
was a NEC chip -- it was too late to rebadge the chip to
Renesas at that point.

1033 NEC Corporation
00e0 uPD72010x USB 2.0 Controller <=== the earlier PCI bus USB2 add-on chip ("old")
1033 NEC Corporation
0194 uPD720200 USB 3.0 Host Controller <=== first chip PCIe Gen2 Two USB3 ports
1912 Renesas Technology Corp.
0014 uPD720201 USB 3.0 Host Controller PCIe Gen2 Fur USB3 ports
0015 uPD720202 USB 3.0 Host Controller PCIe Gen2 Two USB3 ports

If in Windows 7 and there was no driver present, then an
Unknown device would appear in Device Manager. Once the
driver is installed, the new USB3 hub should be in
the USB section of Device Manager. Highlighting the
newly acquired item and doing

Properties : Details : Hardware IDs

should give numbers like 1912:0015 . That electronic ID should
correlate with some number printed on the plastic chip (the uPD number).

Paul

On 12/9/2023 8:38 PM, Robert in CA wrote:
> I'm re-posting my last message in case you didn't see it
>
> I forgot to run the mini disk on the 780 because I thought
> I needed to connect the molex for it to work. So I put the
> mini-disk in and this is what it gave me:
>
> https://postimg.cc/PpRCZ4Tr
>
> https://postimg.cc/Hr9j3HdN
>
> I tried the Patriot stick afterwards and still nothing.
>
> We done everything we can for the 8500 and the 780
> but I have one last question.
>
> Can I move My bookmarks and My Documents from
> Win 7 to Win 10 when and if the time comes?
>
> I'll leave everything as is and won't touch anything and
> will continue making monthly mrimgs.
>
> Robert
>

You could install Windows 10 "over-top" of Window7 SP1,
preserving user data and programs.

What does not work at this time, is Free Upgrade license
generation. If you previously installed Windows 10 at least
once on the machine, then chances are you verified your
license issue at that time. The license is stored on
the Microsoft server.

When you install Windows 10 over-top of Windows7 SP1,
and you already had the Free license generated, then
today not only does it install, it also activates.

However, if you had a licensed copy of Windows 7 today,
where WIndows 10 had never been installed on the machine,
then chances are, you would have missed out on the Free Upgrade
license offer. The Windows 10 OS would still run, but it
would be unlicensed.

*******

To install over top:

1) Back up the Windows 7 machine.

2) Boot up Windows 7. You'll be using File Explorer.

3) Load the Windows 10 DVD into the tray, or alternately,
right-click the windows.iso file you downloaded and select Mount.
If you have Imgburn installed, instead click the windows.iso file
and select "open with File Explorer" or similar, to mount it.

The DVD drive that you see in File Explorer, will have
a Setup.exe . Run that, and the install will kick off.

https://www.tenforums.com/attachments/tutorials/240831d1547071385-upgrade-windows-10-a-windows_10_repair_install-1.png

# This is where you give permission for it to go ahead...

https://www.tenforums.com/attachments/tutorials/26314d1485953169-upgrade-windows-10-a-windows_10_upgrade-6.png

https://www.tenforums.com/attachments/tutorials/23443d1485952416-upgrade-windows-10-a-windows_10_upgrade-7.png

# You are installing Win10 over Win7, so you will not see Win7 any more.
# Win7 is inside C:\Windows.old , but, it won't stay there forever.

3) It'll take a while and a few reboots, to finish the install.
Expect to waste two to three hours on the project.

There are web articles with pictures. This one has
quite a few examples, but no article will look exactly
like a certain users situation. Expect a bit of poetic license.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2267-upgrade-windows-10-a.html

*******

You can also install Windows OSes side-by-side and multiboot. But
if you do that, the Win10 would be a clean install, and you boot
the DVD disc to do such an install. And your user documents would
not get transferred. "Installing-over-top" is how you preserve as much
of the useful bits as possible, when putting the new OS on the machine.
And "Installing-Over-Top" is done while the old OS is running, and
you use Setup.exe on the Win10 DVD image.

Paul

I have two 3.0 ports on the PCI card

I checked the 780 Device Manager but
there was no Unknown device. I did click
the top folder and did properties etc. just to
see the contents.

https://postimg.cc/cgzFG6Rx

https://postimg.cc/p5nqWxCD

https://postimg.cc/Jt9pTD7K

https://postimg.cc/XpdQtjpW

https://postimg.cc/68hz5Mr1

https://postimg.cc/94Fb4y1X

but there were no drivers from the mini disk.

I prefer not to use Patriot's for loading the WIM files
although faster it seems a bit iffy to me. I have made a
PE10 SD-card with USB adapter for the 780 and a PE10
Rescue CD but haven't done anything for the 8500 except
I have created (2) PE10 Rescue CD's but each had problems
afterwards.

At this point I'd rather not mess with the 8500 anymore to
create a USB WIM file and I still have to press F12 because
it doesn't detect the optical drive. The 780 does.

So I think it's best to leave well enough alone.

I did want to ask, can I move My Bookmarks and My
Documents from Win 7 to Win 10?

Thanks,
Robert

I don't mean install Win 10 over Win 7, I already have Win 10
hd's we made for the 780 and 8500 when they still offered Win
10 upgrade for free. I mean can I copy/paste my bookmarks
and My Documents from Win 7 to the Win 10 hd?

Robert

Here's a list of my available hd's.

https://postimg.cc/7GLTMVTh

Robert