Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
year prior to that).

I had not installed any new software recently, and all of effort to
track down a cause for these failed.

I finally opted to restore the system from a Time Machine backup from
around a month before the problems started, but that does not appear to
have solved the problem which is leading me to suspect that I have some
sort of hardware-related issue.

Apple Diagnostics reports no problems, but also provides no details
regarding what sorts of hardware problems it is actually capable of
diagnosing. Similarly, running disk first aid from recovery found no
issues with any of my disk drives (though of course that just looks at
the file system). Not all of my drives support S.M.A.R.T., but all that
do indicate no problems.

Does anyone have suggestions for any utilities that might be able to
diagnose RAM issues and/or drive issues and/or any other sort of
hardware issue that might lead to kernel panics? I don't want to replace
the whole system if the problem is with a single peripheral or DIMM.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

André

[n.b. I am still running mojave, but would prefer not to update as I
have one crucial (to me) 32-bit application].

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail
service.

In article <u29ug2$139bj$1@dont-email.me>,
André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
> year prior to that).
>
> Does anyone have suggestions for any utilities that might be able to
> diagnose RAM issues and/or drive issues and/or any other sort of
> hardware issue that might lead to kernel panics? I don't want to replace
> the whole system if the problem is with a single peripheral or DIMM.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.

The first hardware thing to check is, are the fans working? Air vents
not blocked with dust? No dust on the CPU heat sink? An overheating
CPU will crash.

Next, I would rotate the RAM into different slots. If there is a bad
DIMM, moving the bad one to a slot where perhaps the kernel is not
living will stop the panics. Even just removing them and re-seating
them can cure it if it is just a bad connection.

While you are in there, re-seat any power connections and drive
connections that are plugged in. Fluctuating power is a common cause of
flaky hardware. But fluctuating power can also be a sign of a failing
power supply. Re-seating cables is the first, easy thing to do.

On 26/04/2023 04:29, Bob Campbell wrote:
> In article <u29ug2$139bj$1@dont-email.me>,
> André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
>> year prior to that).
>>
>> Does anyone have suggestions for any utilities that might be able to
>> diagnose RAM issues and/or drive issues and/or any other sort of
>> hardware issue that might lead to kernel panics? I don't want to replace
>> the whole system if the problem is with a single peripheral or DIMM.
>>
>> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> The first hardware thing to check is, are the fans working? Air vents
> not blocked with dust? No dust on the CPU heat sink? An overheating
> CPU will crash.
>
> Next, I would rotate the RAM into different slots. If there is a bad
> DIMM, moving the bad one to a slot where perhaps the kernel is not
> living will stop the panics. Even just removing them and re-seating
> them can cure it if it is just a bad connection.
>
> While you are in there, re-seat any power connections and drive
> connections that are plugged in. Fluctuating power is a common cause of
> flaky hardware. But fluctuating power can also be a sign of a failing
> power supply. Re-seating cables is the first, easy thing to do.

Good advice! 🙂

On 2023-04-25 21:24, André G. Isaak wrote:
> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
> year prior to that).
>
> I had not installed any new software recently, and all of effort to
> track down a cause for these failed.
>
> I finally opted to restore the system from a Time Machine backup from
> around a month before the problems started, but that does not appear to
> have solved the problem which is leading me to suspect that I have some
> sort of hardware-related issue.
>
> Apple Diagnostics reports no problems, but also provides no details
> regarding what sorts of hardware problems it is actually capable of
> diagnosing. Similarly, running disk first aid from recovery found no
> issues with any of my disk drives (though of course that just looks at
> the file system). Not all of my drives support S.M.A.R.T., but all that
> do indicate no problems.
>
> Does anyone have suggestions for any utilities that might be able to
> diagnose RAM issues and/or drive issues and/or any other sort of
> hardware issue that might lead to kernel panics? I don't want to replace
> the whole system if the problem is with a single peripheral or DIMM.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Classic "to do's"

- read the system logs
- SMC reset
- PRAM reset

Unplug/disconnect all external devices (other than mouse/trackpad and KB).

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-04-25 21:29, Bob Campbell wrote:
> In article <u29ug2$139bj$1@dont-email.me>,
> André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
>> year prior to that).
>>
>> Does anyone have suggestions for any utilities that might be able to
>> diagnose RAM issues and/or drive issues and/or any other sort of
>> hardware issue that might lead to kernel panics? I don't want to replace
>> the whole system if the problem is with a single peripheral or DIMM.
>>
>> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> The first hardware thing to check is, are the fans working? Air vents
> not blocked with dust? No dust on the CPU heat sink? An overheating
> CPU will crash.

Sadly, I'm not qualified to take my iMac apart to do this, but I don't
think there's a problem with my CPU overhearing. I can monitor the CPU
temp and fan speed with iStat Menus and there doesn't seem to be any
problems.

> Next, I would rotate the RAM into different slots. If there is a bad
> DIMM, moving the bad one to a slot where perhaps the kernel is not
> living will stop the panics. Even just removing them and re-seating
> them can cure it if it is just a bad connection.
>
> While you are in there, re-seat any power connections and drive
> connections that are plugged in. Fluctuating power is a common cause of
> flaky hardware. But fluctuating power can also be a sign of a failing
> power supply. Re-seating cables is the first, easy thing to do.

Thanks for the suggestions. I hadn't thought to verify the RAM seating
or to rotate the DIMMs. I will give that a shot (the other cables I've
verified already).

André

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail
service.

On 2023-04-26 09:59, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-04-25 21:24, André G. Isaak wrote:
>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once
>> a year prior to that).
>>
>> I had not installed any new software recently, and all of effort to
>> track down a cause for these failed.
>>
>> I finally opted to restore the system from a Time Machine backup from
>> around a month before the problems started, but that does not appear
>> to have solved the problem which is leading me to suspect that I have
>> some sort of hardware-related issue.
>>
>> Apple Diagnostics reports no problems, but also provides no details
>> regarding what sorts of hardware problems it is actually capable of
>> diagnosing. Similarly, running disk first aid from recovery found no
>> issues with any of my disk drives (though of course that just looks at
>> the file system). Not all of my drives support S.M.A.R.T., but all
>> that do indicate no problems.
>>
>> Does anyone have suggestions for any utilities that might be able to
>> diagnose RAM issues and/or drive issues and/or any other sort of
>> hardware issue that might lead to kernel panics? I don't want to
>> replace the whole system if the problem is with a single peripheral or
>> DIMM.
>>
>> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Classic "to do's"
>
> - read the system logs
> - SMC reset
> - PRAM reset
>
> Unplug/disconnect all external devices (other than mouse/trackpad and KB).

These are all things I had tried before I finally did the Time Machine
restore. I appreciate the suggestions, though.

André

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail
service.

On 26/04/2023 21:43, André G. Isaak wrote:
> On 2023-04-25 21:29, Bob Campbell wrote:
>> In article <u29ug2$139bj$1@dont-email.me>,
>>   André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
>>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
>>> year prior to that).
>>>
>>> Does anyone have suggestions for any utilities that might be able to
>>> diagnose RAM issues and/or drive issues and/or any other sort of
>>> hardware issue that might lead to kernel panics? I don't want to replace
>>> the whole system if the problem is with a single peripheral or DIMM.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>
>> The first hardware thing to check is, are the fans working?  Air vents
>> not blocked with dust?   No dust on the CPU heat sink?   An overheating
>> CPU will crash.
>
> Sadly, I'm not qualified to take my iMac apart to do this, but I don't
> think there's a problem with my CPU overhearing. I can monitor the CPU
> temp and fan speed with iStat Menus and there doesn't seem to be any
> problems.

You should have no problem giving the iMac a good 'blow-through' with
compressed air
from a can.
https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/compressed-air-gm470987075-82094

I do mine outside in my garden!

>> Next, I would rotate the RAM into different slots.  If there is a bad
>> DIMM, moving the bad one to a slot where perhaps the kernel is not
>> living will stop the panics.  Even just removing them and re-seating
>> them can cure it if it is just a bad connection.
>>
>> While you are in there, re-seat any power connections and drive
>> connections that are plugged in.  Fluctuating power is a common cause of
>> flaky hardware.  But fluctuating power can also be a sign of a failing
>> power supply.  Re-seating cables is the first, easy thing to do.
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I hadn't thought to verify the RAM seating
> or to rotate the DIMMs. I will give that a shot (the other cables I've
> verified already).

That may well help, André!

On 2023-04-26 16:43, André G. Isaak wrote:
> On 2023-04-25 21:29, Bob Campbell wrote:
>> In article <u29ug2$139bj$1@dont-email.me>,
>>   André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
>>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
>>> year prior to that).
>>>
>>> Does anyone have suggestions for any utilities that might be able to
>>> diagnose RAM issues and/or drive issues and/or any other sort of
>>> hardware issue that might lead to kernel panics? I don't want to replace
>>> the whole system if the problem is with a single peripheral or DIMM.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>
>> The first hardware thing to check is, are the fans working?  Air vents
>> not blocked with dust?   No dust on the CPU heat sink?   An overheating
>> CPU will crash.
>
> Sadly, I'm not qualified to take my iMac apart to do this, but I don't
> think there's a problem with my CPU overhearing. I can monitor the CPU
> temp and fan speed with iStat Menus and there doesn't seem to be any
> problems.

It's not that hard. It does take a lot of room and a few unusual tools
like a guitar pick to unseal the unit and maybe a suction cup to pull
the display out.

Of course re-sealing it requires a new gasket which you can get from
iFixIt (along with the tools to take it apart ... good time to upgrade
the drive while you're in there too...).

Just watch the video "how to"'s first to avoid possible "bad things".

That said I'd only go in there if other avenue are exhausted.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On Apr 26, 2023 at 5:45:18 PM PDT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
wrote:

> On 2023-04-26 16:43, André G. Isaak wrote:
>> On 2023-04-25 21:29, Bob Campbell wrote:
>>> In article <u29ug2$139bj$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
>>>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
>>>> year prior to that).
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have suggestions for any utilities that might be able to
>>>> diagnose RAM issues and/or drive issues and/or any other sort of
>>>> hardware issue that might lead to kernel panics? I don't want to replace
>>>> the whole system if the problem is with a single peripheral or DIMM.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> The first hardware thing to check is, are the fans working? Air vents
>>> not blocked with dust? No dust on the CPU heat sink? An overheating
>>> CPU will crash.
>>
>> Sadly, I'm not qualified to take my iMac apart to do this, but I don't
>> think there's a problem with my CPU overhearing. I can monitor the CPU
>> temp and fan speed with iStat Menus and there doesn't seem to be any
>> problems.
>
> It's not that hard. It does take a lot of room and a few unusual tools
> like a guitar pick to unseal the unit and maybe a suction cup to pull
> the display out.
>
> Of course re-sealing it requires a new gasket which you can get from
> iFixIt (along with the tools to take it apart ... good time to upgrade
> the drive while you're in there too...).
>
> Just watch the video "how to"'s first to avoid possible "bad things".
>
> That said I'd only go in there if other avenue are exhausted.

I'd fork over a few bucks and have a local mac fixit shop take care of it. I
also don't do yard chores.

In article <u2d2ug$1psg0$1@dont-email.me>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> >>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
> >>>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
> >>>> year prior to that).
> >>>>

>
> I'd fork over a few bucks and have a local mac fixit shop take care of it. I
> also don't do yard chores.

not worth it for a mac that old.

On 2023-04-27 01:58, gtr wrote:
> On Apr 26, 2023 at 5:45:18 PM PDT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-04-26 16:43, André G. Isaak wrote:
>>> On 2023-04-25 21:29, Bob Campbell wrote:
>>>> In article <u29ug2$139bj$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
>>>>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
>>>>> year prior to that).
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone have suggestions for any utilities that might be able to
>>>>> diagnose RAM issues and/or drive issues and/or any other sort of
>>>>> hardware issue that might lead to kernel panics? I don't want to replace
>>>>> the whole system if the problem is with a single peripheral or DIMM.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> The first hardware thing to check is, are the fans working? Air vents
>>>> not blocked with dust? No dust on the CPU heat sink? An overheating
>>>> CPU will crash.
>>>
>>> Sadly, I'm not qualified to take my iMac apart to do this, but I don't
>>> think there's a problem with my CPU overhearing. I can monitor the CPU
>>> temp and fan speed with iStat Menus and there doesn't seem to be any
>>> problems.
>>
>> It's not that hard. It does take a lot of room and a few unusual tools
>> like a guitar pick to unseal the unit and maybe a suction cup to pull
>> the display out.
>>
>> Of course re-sealing it requires a new gasket which you can get from
>> iFixIt (along with the tools to take it apart ... good time to upgrade
>> the drive while you're in there too...).
>>
>> Just watch the video "how to"'s first to avoid possible "bad things".
>>
>> That said I'd only go in there if other avenue are exhausted.
>
> I'd fork over a few bucks and have a local mac fixit shop take care of it. I
> also don't do yard chores.

Your choice. It's just the "fear" of breach is overblown IMO.

Nobody cares about your aversion to yard chores.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-04-27 06:55, nospam wrote:
> In article <u2d2ug$1psg0$1@dont-email.me>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
>>>>>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
>>>>>> year prior to that).
>>>>>>
>
>
>>
>> I'd fork over a few bucks and have a local mac fixit shop take care of it. I
>> also don't do yard chores.
>
> not worth it for a mac that old.

Sure it is. But while it's in the shop (or on the operating dining
table), might as well upgrade the disk too.

My iMac is even older ... aside from higher resolution video rendering,
it's perfectly fine and fast. Just starting to show "ecosphere
incompatibility syndrome" as all other devices here are more recent.

This iMac will end up as a server, I suppose.

Waiting on the elusive M3 iMac... hopefully in June ... some rumours
point to the fall.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

In article <Iow2M.2399979$iS99.735647@fx16.iad>, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>>>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
> >>>>>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
> >>>>>> year prior to that).
> >>>>>>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I'd fork over a few bucks and have a local mac fixit shop take care of it.
> >> I
> >> also don't do yard chores.
> >
> > not worth it for a mac that old.
>
> Sure it is. But while it's in the shop (or on the operating dining
> table), might as well upgrade the disk too.

it's a 9 year old mac that will almost certainly cost more to repair
than it's worth.

On 2023-04-27 11:37, nospam wrote:
> In article <Iow2M.2399979$iS99.735647@fx16.iad>, Alan Browne
> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
>>>>>>>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
>>>>>>>> year prior to that).
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd fork over a few bucks and have a local mac fixit shop take care of it.
>>>> I
>>>> also don't do yard chores.
>>>
>>> not worth it for a mac that old.
>>
>> Sure it is. But while it's in the shop (or on the operating dining
>> table), might as well upgrade the disk too.
>
> it's a 9 year old mac that will almost certainly cost more to repair
> than it's worth.

Depends on what it's used for afterwards - esp. if one does the work
themselves - it's far less daunting than people assume.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

In article <2Iw2M.1609581$MVg8.99507@fx12.iad>, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>>>>>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from
> >>>>>>>> kernel

> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd fork over a few bucks and have a local mac fixit shop take care of
> >>>> it.

> >>>
> >>> not worth it for a mac that old.
> >>
> >> Sure it is. But while it's in the shop (or on the operating dining
> >> table), might as well upgrade the disk too.
> >
> > it's a 9 year old mac that will almost certainly cost more to repair
> > than it's worth.
>
> Depends on what it's used for afterwards - esp. if one does the work
> themselves - it's far less daunting than people assume.

what it's used for is irrelevant. the calculation is very simple: if
the cost to replace it is less than the cost to repair, then replacing
it is a better choice, especially if the replacement has better specs.

On 2023-04-27 11:54, nospam wrote:
> In article <2Iw2M.1609581$MVg8.99507@fx12.iad>, Alan Browne
> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from
>>>>>>>>>> kernel
>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd fork over a few bucks and have a local mac fixit shop take care of
>>>>>> it.
>
>>>>>
>>>>> not worth it for a mac that old.
>>>>
>>>> Sure it is. But while it's in the shop (or on the operating dining
>>>> table), might as well upgrade the disk too.
>>>
>>> it's a 9 year old mac that will almost certainly cost more to repair
>>> than it's worth.
>>
>> Depends on what it's used for afterwards - esp. if one does the work
>> themselves - it's far less daunting than people assume.
>
> what it's used for is irrelevant. the calculation is very simple: if
> the cost to replace it is less than the cost to repair, then replacing
> it is a better choice, especially if the replacement has better specs.

The quoted price to replace an SSD from a downtown store here is $160 +
the price of the SSD and some parts. All in - about $350 + taxes.
(CAD). Then you have a computer that's useful for 5+ more years in a
secondary role that has plenty of oomph left.

A new Mac mini is far more that that - and has no display, keyboard or
mouse in the box...

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

In article <try2M.490558$mmyc.459761@fx37.iad>, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>> it's a 9 year old mac that will almost certainly cost more to repair
> >>> than it's worth.
> >>
> >> Depends on what it's used for afterwards - esp. if one does the work
> >> themselves - it's far less daunting than people assume.
> >
> > what it's used for is irrelevant. the calculation is very simple: if
> > the cost to replace it is less than the cost to repair, then replacing
> > it is a better choice, especially if the replacement has better specs.
>
> The quoted price to replace an SSD from a downtown store here is $160 +
> the price of the SSD and some parts. All in - about $350 + taxes.
> (CAD). Then you have a computer that's useful for 5+ more years in a
> secondary role that has plenty of oomph left.

interesting definition of useful, given that that it kernel panics
twice a day:
> >>>>>>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from
> >>>>>>>> kernel
> >>>>>>>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than
> >>>>>>>> once a year prior to that).
> >>>>>>>>

at least with an ssd, booting will be faster after it panics, so all is
not lost.

kernel panics are generally hardware. fixing that is not going to be
worth it unless the fix is very simple, such as a loose cable that can
be reseated. while possible, it's very unlikely it is that simple.

> A new Mac mini is far more that that - and has no display, keyboard or
> mouse in the box...

who said anything about new mac or switching to a mac mini?

a used 2014 imac is cheap, less than $350 on ebay. a quick check shows
a bunch around $200, one as low as $50 (working, but poor condition).

On 2023-04-27 12:03, nospam wrote:
> In article <try2M.490558$mmyc.459761@fx37.iad>, Alan Browne
> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> it's a 9 year old mac that will almost certainly cost more to repair
>>>>> than it's worth.
>>>>
>>>> Depends on what it's used for afterwards - esp. if one does the work
>>>> themselves - it's far less daunting than people assume.
>>>
>>> what it's used for is irrelevant. the calculation is very simple: if
>>> the cost to replace it is less than the cost to repair, then replacing
>>> it is a better choice, especially if the replacement has better specs.
>>
>> The quoted price to replace an SSD from a downtown store here is $160 +
>> the price of the SSD and some parts. All in - about $350 + taxes.
>> (CAD). Then you have a computer that's useful for 5+ more years in a
>> secondary role that has plenty of oomph left.
>
> interesting definition of useful, given that that it kernel panics
> twice a day:

Exactly. Right now I don't consider it very useful until I can track
down the source of these panics. I'm certainly not going to be investing
money in it when, for all I know, the CPU or GPU is gone flaky on me.

Unfortunately, the troubleshooting is going slowly because the panics
are frequent enough that they prevent me from doing actual work, but
infrequent enough that it takes a long time to test each possibility
(e.g. I can remove one drive, use it for a day or two, get a panic, and
conclude that that drive was not the problem, so that's two days spent
ruling out a single possible cause).

André

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail
service.

On 2023-04-27 14:03, nospam wrote:
> In article <try2M.490558$mmyc.459761@fx37.iad>, Alan Browne
> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> it's a 9 year old mac that will almost certainly cost more to repair
>>>>> than it's worth.
>>>>
>>>> Depends on what it's used for afterwards - esp. if one does the work
>>>> themselves - it's far less daunting than people assume.
>>>
>>> what it's used for is irrelevant. the calculation is very simple: if
>>> the cost to replace it is less than the cost to repair, then replacing
>>> it is a better choice, especially if the replacement has better specs.
>>
>> The quoted price to replace an SSD from a downtown store here is $160 +
>> the price of the SSD and some parts. All in - about $350 + taxes.
>> (CAD). Then you have a computer that's useful for 5+ more years in a
>> secondary role that has plenty of oomph left.
>
> interesting definition of useful, given that that it kernel panics
> twice a day:

Twisting away from things. The kernel panic is likely something that
will be resolved eventually (esp. if taken to a repaid shop that will
diagnose and fix it handily enough.

> at least with an ssd, booting will be faster after it panics, so all is
> not lost.
>
> kernel panics are generally hardware. fixing that is not going to be

Per Apple: "an error known as a kernel panic occurred, and a message
indicates that your computer restarted because of a problem.

The most likely cause is faulty software. "

> worth it unless the fix is very simple, such as a loose cable that can
> be reseated. while possible, it's very unlikely it is that simple.
>
>> A new Mac mini is far more that that - and has no display, keyboard or
>> mouse in the box...
>
> who said anything about new mac or switching to a mac mini?
>
> a used 2014 imac is cheap, less than $350 on ebay. a quick check shows
> a bunch around $200, one as low as $50 (working, but poor condition).

That's Canadian $350 that I mentioned - if done at a shop.

IAC - my point isn't about any specific case - but the case that any
computer can usually do more than become e-waste with minimal effort.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-04-27 15:07, André G. Isaak wrote:
> On 2023-04-27 12:03, nospam wrote:
>> In article <try2M.490558$mmyc.459761@fx37.iad>, Alan Browne
>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> it's a 9 year old mac that will almost certainly cost more to repair
>>>>>> than it's worth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Depends on what it's used for afterwards - esp. if one does the work
>>>>> themselves - it's far less daunting than people assume.
>>>>
>>>> what it's used for is irrelevant. the calculation is very simple: if
>>>> the cost to replace it is less than the cost to repair, then replacing
>>>> it is a better choice, especially if the replacement has better specs.
>>>
>>> The quoted price to replace an SSD from a downtown store here is $160 +
>>> the price of the SSD and some parts.  All in - about $350 + taxes.
>>> (CAD).  Then you have a computer that's useful for 5+ more years in a
>>> secondary role that has plenty of oomph left.
>>
>> interesting definition of useful, given that that it kernel panics
>> twice a day:
>
> Exactly. Right now I don't consider it very useful until I can track
> down the source of these panics. I'm certainly not going to be investing
> money in it when, for all I know, the CPU or GPU is gone flaky on me.
>
> Unfortunately, the troubleshooting is going slowly because the panics
> are frequent enough that they prevent me from doing actual work, but
> infrequent enough that it takes a long time to test each possibility
> (e.g. I can remove one drive, use it for a day or two, get a panic, and
> conclude that that drive was not the problem, so that's two days spent
> ruling out a single possible cause).

Are there specific apps that you use a lot?

Are there specific apps that you leave "loaded" even though not used so
much?

Close as many apps as practical and keep working and see what happens.

In preferences, "Users & Groups" are there login items that can be
disabled for the time being?

One app that used to cause me complete computer freezes was Mail. This
was several versions ago, however.

Anyway - I approach this from the POV of "this can be fixed/saved" and
I'll invest x time into it and even $ if it makes sense. But - to be
sure - this iMac will be 2nd string sometime this year... but it won't
be e-waste if I can help it.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

In article <u2eh6l$220l0$1@dont-email.me>, André G. Isaak
<agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

> Unfortunately, the troubleshooting is going slowly because the panics
> are frequent enough that they prevent me from doing actual work, but
> infrequent enough that it takes a long time to test each possibility
> (e.g. I can remove one drive, use it for a day or two, get a panic, and
> conclude that that drive was not the problem, so that's two days spent
> ruling out a single possible cause).

boot into diagnostic mode (d key on power up) and see what it says,
which will probably be nothing (it's not that rigorous).

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202731>

another option is take it to an apple store for a free diagnostic,
which is far more comprehensive. however, given that it's 9 years old,
they might not want to do that since there's nothing they can do to fix
it due to its age if they did find a problem (and their test suite
might not support a mac that old anyway).

you could also do a clean install on an external drive (and unmount the
internal drive) to rule out any software issues.

In article <uYz2M.568758$5CY7.310734@fx46.iad>, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >
> >>>>> it's a 9 year old mac that will almost certainly cost more to repair
> >>>>> than it's worth.
> >>>>
> >>>> Depends on what it's used for afterwards - esp. if one does the work
> >>>> themselves - it's far less daunting than people assume.
> >>>
> >>> what it's used for is irrelevant. the calculation is very simple: if
> >>> the cost to replace it is less than the cost to repair, then replacing
> >>> it is a better choice, especially if the replacement has better specs.
> >>
> >> The quoted price to replace an SSD from a downtown store here is $160 +
> >> the price of the SSD and some parts. All in - about $350 + taxes.
> >> (CAD). Then you have a computer that's useful for 5+ more years in a
> >> secondary role that has plenty of oomph left.
> >
> > interesting definition of useful, given that that it kernel panics
> > twice a day:
>
> Twisting away from things. The kernel panic is likely something that
> will be resolved eventually (esp. if taken to a repaid shop that will
> diagnose and fix it handily enough.

that costs money.

apple might check it for free, assuming they will check a mac that old.

third party stores will normally charge a fee to check it, which might
be waived if they fix the problem.

as i said, if replacing it costs less than repairing, then the money is
better spent in replacing it.

On 2023-04-27 10:39, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-04-27 11:54, nospam wrote:
>> In article <2Iw2M.1609581$MVg8.99507@fx12.iad>, Alan Browne
>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from
>>>>>>>>>>> kernel
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd fork over a few bucks and have a local mac fixit shop take
>>>>>>> care of
>>>>>>> it.
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> not worth it for a mac that old.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure it is.  But while it's in the shop (or on the operating dining
>>>>> table), might as well upgrade the disk too.
>>>>
>>>> it's a 9 year old mac that will almost certainly cost more to repair
>>>> than it's worth.
>>>
>>> Depends on what it's used for afterwards - esp. if one does the work
>>> themselves - it's far less daunting than people assume.
>>
>> what it's used for is irrelevant. the calculation is very simple: if
>> the cost to replace it is less than the cost to repair, then replacing
>> it is a better choice, especially if the replacement has better specs.
>
> The quoted price to replace an SSD from a downtown store here is $160 +
> the price of the SSD and some parts.  All in - about $350 + taxes.
> (CAD).  Then you have a computer that's useful for 5+ more years in a
> secondary role that has plenty of oomph left.
>
> A new Mac mini is far more that that - and has no display, keyboard or
> mouse in the box...

1. You have a keyboard and mouse already.

2. <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT204592>

On 2023-04-27 15:12, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-04-27 10:39, Alan Browne wrote:

>> A new Mac mini is far more that that - and has no display, keyboard or
>> mouse in the box...
>
> 1. You have a keyboard and mouse already.
>
> 2. <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT204592>

That requires that the iMac used as a monitor be bootable (and free of
recurrent panics to be useful), and that both Macs be using High Sierra
or earlier. Not really a useful solution.

André

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail
service.

On Apr 27, 2023 at 8:37:11 AM PDT, "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <Iow2M.2399979$iS99.735647@fx16.iad>, Alan Browne
> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> Starting about 2 weeks ago, my 2014 iMac started suffering from kernel
>>>>>>>> panics, averaging around 2/day (as opposed to probably less than once a
>>>>>>>> year prior to that).
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd fork over a few bucks and have a local mac fixit shop take care of it.
>>>> I
>>>> also don't do yard chores.
>>>
>>> not worth it for a mac that old.
>>
>> Sure it is. But while it's in the shop (or on the operating dining
>> table), might as well upgrade the disk too.
>
> it's a 9 year old mac that will almost certainly cost more to repair
> than it's worth.

It was a general conclusion, I hadn't noted it was a 2014. My MBP was 2015 and
will be replaced by next Friday.