These two updates were installed on my desktop today:

2023-06 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows
11, version 22H2 for x64 (KB5027119)

2023-06 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based
Systems (KB5027231)

After the update was complete, a full screen Microsoft window came up
saying something like "Let's complete you setup". (I didn't make a
screenshot, didn't think I'd need it.) My choices for this window were
"Remind me in three days", and "Continue". I didn't want to be bugged
later, so I pressed "Continue", hoping I could say no to everything, and
get back to my desktop.

No such luck. After pressing "Continue", the next window wanted
'customize my experience' by setting up how I used my machine, things
like entertainment, gaming, school, business...but it did give me the
option to "Skip" this window. I skipped.

The next window wanted to set up Edge. This window allowed me to "Skip
for now". I skipped for now.

But, the next window wanted was "Let's add your Microsoft account". It
asked me either sign in or create a MSFT account.

I don't have a MSFT account, and set this Windows 11 machine up with only
a local account.

I could not get out of this window. If I clicked "Next", all I got was
the expected reply that my name/pw was incorrect. Pressing "Back" sent
me back, but that didn't get me back to my desktop.

A CTRL-ALT-Del gave me the opportunity to select Task Manager, but when I
clicked on Task Manager, nothing happened.

I eventually hit the power button to turn the machine off, and then
turned it back on, and I was back to my desktop.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/4gnFDm1

I suspect this may happen again with a future update. Has anyone (with
only a local account) successfully gotten out of this window in a proper
way?

TIA

On 6/15/2023 7:58 PM, Boris wrote:
> These two updates were installed on my desktop today:
>
> 2023-06 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows
> 11, version 22H2 for x64 (KB5027119)
>
> 2023-06 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based
> Systems (KB5027231)
>
> After the update was complete, a full screen Microsoft window came up
> saying something like "Let's complete you setup". (I didn't make a
> screenshot, didn't think I'd need it.) My choices for this window were
> "Remind me in three days", and "Continue". I didn't want to be bugged
> later, so I pressed "Continue", hoping I could say no to everything, and
> get back to my desktop.
>
> No such luck. After pressing "Continue", the next window wanted
> 'customize my experience' by setting up how I used my machine, things
> like entertainment, gaming, school, business...but it did give me the
> option to "Skip" this window. I skipped.
>
> The next window wanted to set up Edge. This window allowed me to "Skip
> for now". I skipped for now.
>
> But, the next window wanted was "Let's add your Microsoft account". It
> asked me either sign in or create a MSFT account.
>
> I don't have a MSFT account, and set this Windows 11 machine up with only
> a local account.
>
> I could not get out of this window. If I clicked "Next", all I got was
> the expected reply that my name/pw was incorrect. Pressing "Back" sent
> me back, but that didn't get me back to my desktop.
>
> A CTRL-ALT-Del gave me the opportunity to select Task Manager, but when I
> clicked on Task Manager, nothing happened.
>
> I eventually hit the power button to turn the machine off, and then
> turned it back on, and I was back to my desktop.
>
> https://postimg.cc/gallery/4gnFDm1
>
> I suspect this may happen again with a future update. Has anyone (with
> only a local account) successfully gotten out of this window in a proper
> way?
>
> TIA
>

I see that HowToGeeks has a picture.

https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/2022-03-30_15h41_12.png?trim=1,1&bg-color=000&pad=1,1

And on my Win11Home, it looks like this (scroll to bottom of that section)

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/yxcgTNX0/W11-Home-Settings-Notifications.gif

"Suggest ways to get the most out of Windows and finish setting up this device"

I think all three items in that section are "irritation" items.

Paul

Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote:

>These two updates were installed on my desktop today:
>
>2023-06 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows
>11, version 22H2 for x64 (KB5027119)
>
>2023-06 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based
>Systems (KB5027231)
>
>After the update was complete, a full screen Microsoft window came up
>saying something like "Let's complete you setup". (I didn't make a
>screenshot, didn't think I'd need it.) My choices for this window were
>"Remind me in three days", and "Continue". I didn't want to be bugged
>later, so I pressed "Continue", hoping I could say no to everything, and
>get back to my desktop.
>
>No such luck. After pressing "Continue", the next window wanted
>'customize my experience' by setting up how I used my machine, things
>like entertainment, gaming, school, business...but it did give me the
>option to "Skip" this window. I skipped.
>
>The next window wanted to set up Edge. This window allowed me to "Skip
>for now". I skipped for now.
>
>But, the next window wanted was "Let's add your Microsoft account". It
>asked me either sign in or create a MSFT account.
>
>I don't have a MSFT account, and set this Windows 11 machine up with only
>a local account.
>
>I could not get out of this window. If I clicked "Next", all I got was
>the expected reply that my name/pw was incorrect. Pressing "Back" sent
>me back, but that didn't get me back to my desktop.
>
>A CTRL-ALT-Del gave me the opportunity to select Task Manager, but when I
>clicked on Task Manager, nothing happened.
>
>I eventually hit the power button to turn the machine off, and then
>turned it back on, and I was back to my desktop.
>
>https://postimg.cc/gallery/4gnFDm1
>
>I suspect this may happen again with a future update. Has anyone (with
>only a local account) successfully gotten out of this window in a proper
>way?
>
>TIA

It may not be what you really want to hear, but you should just create
a Microsoft account, and log into Windows with it. This obsessive
need, to work around that, is just missing the point of using a modern
computer, with the latest and greatest OS.

--
Joel Crump

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> Boris wrote:
>
>> ... After the update was complete, a full screen Microsoft window came up
>> saying something like "Let's complete you setup". (I didn't make a
>> screenshot, didn't think I'd need it.) My choices for this window were
>> "Remind me in three days", and "Continue". I didn't want to be bugged
>> later, so I pressed "Continue", hoping I could say no to everything, and
>> get back to my desktop.
>>
>> ... the next window wanted was "Let's add your Microsoft account". It
>> asked me either sign in or create a MSFT account.
>>
>> I don't have a MSFT account, and set this Windows 11 machine up with only
>> a local account.
>>
>> I could not get out of this window. If I clicked "Next", all I got was
>> the expected reply that my name/pw was incorrect. Pressing "Back" sent
>> me back, but that didn't get me back to my desktop. ...
>
> https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/2022-03-30_15h41_12.png?trim=1,1&bg-color=000&pad=1,1
> https://i.postimg.cc/yxcgTNX0/W11-Home-Settings-Notifications.gif
>
> "Suggest ways to get the most out of Windows and finish setting up
> this device"
>
> I think all three items in that section are "irritation" items.

Windows 10 also has those same items under Notifications. I disabled
those, and lots of other "features" after installing Windows. Not
surprised the same shit is in Win11.

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:u6gafk$iu4v$1@dont-email.me:

> On 6/15/2023 7:58 PM, Boris wrote:
>> These two updates were installed on my desktop today:
>>
>> 2023-06 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for
>> Windows 11, version 22H2 for x64 (KB5027119)
>>
>> 2023-06 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based
>> Systems (KB5027231)
>>
>> After the update was complete, a full screen Microsoft window came up
>> saying something like "Let's complete you setup". (I didn't make a
>> screenshot, didn't think I'd need it.) My choices for this window
>> were "Remind me in three days", and "Continue". I didn't want to be
>> bugged later, so I pressed "Continue", hoping I could say no to
>> everything, and get back to my desktop.
>>
>> No such luck. After pressing "Continue", the next window wanted
>> 'customize my experience' by setting up how I used my machine, things
>> like entertainment, gaming, school, business...but it did give me the
>> option to "Skip" this window. I skipped.
>>
>> The next window wanted to set up Edge. This window allowed me to
>> "Skip for now". I skipped for now.
>>
>> But, the next window wanted was "Let's add your Microsoft account".
>> It asked me either sign in or create a MSFT account.
>>
>> I don't have a MSFT account, and set this Windows 11 machine up with
>> only a local account.
>>
>> I could not get out of this window. If I clicked "Next", all I got
>> was the expected reply that my name/pw was incorrect. Pressing
>> "Back" sent me back, but that didn't get me back to my desktop.
>>
>> A CTRL-ALT-Del gave me the opportunity to select Task Manager, but
>> when I clicked on Task Manager, nothing happened.
>>
>> I eventually hit the power button to turn the machine off, and then
>> turned it back on, and I was back to my desktop.
>>
>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/4gnFDm1
>>
>> I suspect this may happen again with a future update. Has anyone
>> (with only a local account) successfully gotten out of this window in
>> a proper way?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>
> I see that HowToGeeks has a picture.
>
> https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/2022-03-30_15h41_1
> 2.png?trim=1,1&bg-color=000&pad=1,1
>
> And on my Win11Home, it looks like this (scroll to bottom of that
> section)
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/yxcgTNX0/W11-Home-Settings-Notifications.gif
>
> "Suggest ways to get the most out of Windows and finish setting up
> this device"
>
> I think all three items in that section are "irritation" items.
>
> Paul

Thanks, Paul.

I just disabled all three items. It's really irritating that the
settintgs that MSFT doesn't want a user to disable are hidden down
rabbit holes.

----------------------------

Not related to my OP; this happened on another Windows machine:

Last night, I powered down the my Windows 10 laptop. This morning when
I powered it up, and even though I had set updates to delay for two
weeks, Microsoft still insisted on installing updates. No stopping it.

First, there was the 'don't turn your pc off', blah, blah, blah, then
'100 percent', but no movement for 10 or so minutes, then 'restarting',
then going through the 'don't turn your pc off' again, and then '100
percent'restarting' again,...it did this three times. Finally,
forty-five minutes later, the BSOD came up and it said "Your pc ran into
a problem and needs to restart. We'll restart for you." Stop code was
"DRIVER POWER STATE FAILURE".

https://postimg.cc/njbTWJkQ

I waited and waited for the machine to restart, not wanting to interfere
or get MSFT angry at me. Well, it didn't restart for me automatically
after 10 minutes, so I pressed the power button half-way in to restart
(not shut down). It came back up and said it needed to 'clean'. I
don't remember the exact message. It 'cleaned' for about 15 minutes,
and my desktop finally appeared. All in all, this annoyance took about
70 minutes to fix. So far, all looks ok. I guess I should be thankful
it didn't take any serious user intervention. It did fix itself.

I made no changes to drivers, didn't install any new programs, and
didn't change power settings, etc..

I just wonder if the problem was caused by hardware, driver software, or
an update. Time for sfc, DISM? I kind of enjoy chasing things down,
but not this one, unless this happens again.

Paul wrote:

> "Suggest ways to get the most out of Windows and finish setting up this
> device"
>
> I think all three items in that section are "irritation" items.

but, but ... you'll miss out on the microsnoth reward points

On 16.6.23 1:34 am, Joel wrote:
> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>These two updates were installed on my desktop today:
>>
>>2023-06 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows
>>11, version 22H2 for x64 (KB5027119)
>>
>>2023-06 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based
>>Systems (KB5027231)
>>
>>After the update was complete, a full screen Microsoft window came up
>>saying something like "Let's complete you setup". (I didn't make a
>>screenshot, didn't think I'd need it.) My choices for this window were
>>"Remind me in three days", and "Continue". I didn't want to be bugged
>>later, so I pressed "Continue", hoping I could say no to everything, and
>>get back to my desktop.
>>
>>No such luck. After pressing "Continue", the next window wanted
>>'customize my experience' by setting up how I used my machine, things
>>like entertainment, gaming, school, business...but it did give me the
>>option to "Skip" this window. I skipped.
>>
>>The next window wanted to set up Edge. This window allowed me to "Skip
>>for now". I skipped for now.
>>
>>But, the next window wanted was "Let's add your Microsoft account". It
>>asked me either sign in or create a MSFT account.
>>
>>I don't have a MSFT account, and set this Windows 11 machine up with only
>>a local account.
>>
>>I could not get out of this window. If I clicked "Next", all I got was
>>the expected reply that my name/pw was incorrect. Pressing "Back" sent
>>me back, but that didn't get me back to my desktop.
>>
>>A CTRL-ALT-Del gave me the opportunity to select Task Manager, but when I
>>clicked on Task Manager, nothing happened.
>>
>>I eventually hit the power button to turn the machine off, and then
>>turned it back on, and I was back to my desktop.
>>
>>https://postimg.cc/gallery/4gnFDm1
>>
>>I suspect this may happen again with a future update. Has anyone (with
>>only a local account) successfully gotten out of this window in a proper
>>way?
>>
>>TIA
>
>
> It may not be what you really want to hear, but you should just create
> a Microsoft account, and log into Windows with it. This obsessive
> need, to work around that, is just missing the point of using a modern
> computer, with the latest and greatest OS.
>

I too can't see why it is a problem to have a Microsoft account - mine
comes in quite handy on many occasions. All the updates mentioned just
applied themselves happily to my system with no annoyance whatever.

I agree it's the latest OS, but it ain't the greatest - that was
probably Windows 7. However, it's certainly the best of the current
bunch, as Windows always has been. It's a pity it has no real
competition, though.

--
Bob,
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Licentiae, quam stulti libertatem vocabant - Tacitus
Licence, which fools call liberty.

On 2023-06-16 1:11 a.m., Andy Burns wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
>> "Suggest ways to get the most out of Windows and finish setting up
>> this device"
>>
>> I think all three items in that section are "irritation" items.
>
> but, but ... you'll miss out on the microsnoth reward points

The points you can use to enter contests for hardware you'll never win!

--
rabidPedagog
TG: @rabidPedagog
Galatians 6:7

"In the way? Au contraire! I would suck and get fucked by her dick,
if she's down for that." - exemplary heterosexual Joel Crump

On 6/16/2023 1:06 AM, Boris wrote:
> ----------------------------
>
> Not related to my OP; this happened on another Windows machine:
>
> Last night, I powered down the my Windows 10 laptop. This morning when
> I powered it up, and even though I had set updates to delay for two
> weeks, Microsoft still insisted on installing updates. No stopping it.
>
> First, there was the 'don't turn your pc off', blah, blah, blah, then
> '100 percent', but no movement for 10 or so minutes, then 'restarting',
> then going through the 'don't turn your pc off' again, and then '100
> percent'restarting' again,...it did this three times. Finally,
> forty-five minutes later, the BSOD came up and it said "Your pc ran into
> a problem and needs to restart. We'll restart for you." Stop code was
> "DRIVER POWER STATE FAILURE".
>
> https://postimg.cc/njbTWJkQ
>
> I waited and waited for the machine to restart, not wanting to interfere
> or get MSFT angry at me. Well, it didn't restart for me automatically
> after 10 minutes, so I pressed the power button half-way in to restart
> (not shut down). It came back up and said it needed to 'clean'. I
> don't remember the exact message. It 'cleaned' for about 15 minutes,
> and my desktop finally appeared. All in all, this annoyance took about
> 70 minutes to fix. So far, all looks ok. I guess I should be thankful
> it didn't take any serious user intervention. It did fix itself.
>
> I made no changes to drivers, didn't install any new programs, and
> didn't change power settings, etc..
>
> I just wonder if the problem was caused by hardware, driver software, or
> an update. Time for sfc, DISM? I kind of enjoy chasing things down,
> but not this one, unless this happens again.

I've seen one other report on USENET, of that sort of meltdown
going on (seems to be a Patch Tuesday issue from this month).

I don't know if this is related to the Secure Boot
issue Microsoft will be fixing incrementally over the next year
or so.

It's possible the OEM laptops set up with Secure Boot, could
be targets for this behavior.

The other possibility, is it is one of Todds "Fast Startup" issues,
and was related to Patch Tuesday changing a driver, without
telling the kernel to do a full boot.

If you use the Feedback Hub, the automation built into the feedback
hub, will upload a couple hundred megabytes of update logs and such.
But since there is never any feedback for your report, it's not like
you will ever know whether it is helping or not. Presumably, the
telemetry summary for your machine, has sent up a note saying
"Patch Tuesday failed and was rolled back". And then it is up to
them to figure it out (somehow).

Another possibility, is this months Patch Tuesday, fixes a lot of
CVEs. If one of the exploits was already in circulation, that
"DRIVER POWER STATE FAILURE" BSOD could actually be a side effect
of the malware fighting with the Patch Tuesday CVE fix.

An example from the past, was Microsoft, on purpose, sent out
a patch for "atapi.sys", which is what the TDSS rootkit was using
to stay persistent. This would cause a TDSS infected machine to
crash. The Patch Tuesday crashes were reported over a 48 hour
period after Patch Tuesday, and then the TDSS C&C server sent out
their own patch, to nullify what Microsoft was doing, and then
no more of the infected machines would crash.

Paul

On 16/06/2023 06:11, Andy Burns wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
>> "Suggest ways to get the most out of Windows and finish setting up
>> this device"
>>
>> I think all three items in that section are "irritation" items.
>
> but, but ... you'll miss out on the microsnoth reward points

Then they really will have your name & address.

--
Regards
wasbit

On 6/15/2023 8:34 PM, Joel wrote:
> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> These two updates were installed on my desktop today:
>>
>> 2023-06 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows
>> 11, version 22H2 for x64 (KB5027119)
>>
>> 2023-06 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based
>> Systems (KB5027231)
>>
>> After the update was complete, a full screen Microsoft window came up
>> saying something like "Let's complete you setup". (I didn't make a
>> screenshot, didn't think I'd need it.) My choices for this window were
>> "Remind me in three days", and "Continue". I didn't want to be bugged
>> later, so I pressed "Continue", hoping I could say no to everything, and
>> get back to my desktop.
>>
>> No such luck. After pressing "Continue", the next window wanted
>> 'customize my experience' by setting up how I used my machine, things
>> like entertainment, gaming, school, business...but it did give me the
>> option to "Skip" this window. I skipped.
>>
>> The next window wanted to set up Edge. This window allowed me to "Skip
>> for now". I skipped for now.
>>
>> But, the next window wanted was "Let's add your Microsoft account". It
>> asked me either sign in or create a MSFT account.
>>
>> I don't have a MSFT account, and set this Windows 11 machine up with only
>> a local account.
>>
>> I could not get out of this window. If I clicked "Next", all I got was
>> the expected reply that my name/pw was incorrect. Pressing "Back" sent
>> me back, but that didn't get me back to my desktop.
>>
>> A CTRL-ALT-Del gave me the opportunity to select Task Manager, but when I
>> clicked on Task Manager, nothing happened.
>>
>> I eventually hit the power button to turn the machine off, and then
>> turned it back on, and I was back to my desktop.
>>
>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/4gnFDm1
>>
>> I suspect this may happen again with a future update. Has anyone (with
>> only a local account) successfully gotten out of this window in a proper
>> way?
>>
>> TIA
>
>
> It may not be what you really want to hear, but you should just create
> a Microsoft account, and log into Windows with it. This obsessive
> need, to work around that, is just missing the point of using a modern
> computer, with the latest and greatest OS.
>

Ha.

Microsoft harassment interfaces are a dime-a-dozen.

How about MSEdge something-or-other opens in your face,
and "can't be dismissed". That's just another example of
this baloney. You can try alt-F4 to dismiss, but my favorite
method is control-alt-delete and kill every instance of
msedge until the damn screen comes back :-) If you have
a hard drive and not an SSD, even hitting the power button
is a valid response.

The machine I'm typing this on, has an MSA. Am I seeing
Sparkle Ponies here ? No.

And the knobs you flip in this OS, can be randomly flipped
back again, after a Patch Tuesday. You always have to be
on your guard for the monkey business. These are not
accidents, when this happens. Little kiddies sit in a
meeting room and plot all this stuff. And they <snicker>
a bit while doing so. Who said you can't have fun at work.

Paul

On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 07:50:57 -0400, Paul wrote:
> How about MSEdge something-or-other opens in your face,
> and "can't be dismissed". That's just another example of
> this baloney. You can try alt-F4 to dismiss, but my favorite
> method is control-alt-delete and kill every instance of
> msedge until the damn screen comes back :-) If you have
> a hard drive and not an SSD, even hitting the power button
> is a valid response.

I'm curious, Paul. Why would "hitting the power button"
not be "a valid response" if I have an SSD but would be
valid if HDD?

And are you talking about tapping the power button, to
initiate a shutdown sequence, or pressing and holding
the power button, to force-stop everything?

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On 6/16/2023 10:55 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 07:50:57 -0400, Paul wrote:
>> How about MSEdge something-or-other opens in your face,
>> and "can't be dismissed". That's just another example of
>> this baloney. You can try alt-F4 to dismiss, but my favorite
>> method is control-alt-delete and kill every instance of
>> msedge until the damn screen comes back :-) If you have
>> a hard drive and not an SSD, even hitting the power button
>> is a valid response.
>
> I'm curious, Paul. Why would "hitting the power button"
> not be "a valid response" if I have an SSD but would be
> valid if HDD?
>
> And are you talking about tapping the power button, to
> initiate a shutdown sequence, or pressing and holding
> the power button, to force-stop everything?
>

I don't want to hear any "my SSD is bricked and it's all your fault"
here. HDD have emergency response that seems to work, and the
NTFS file system is journaled. This combo seems to work.

With the SSD, we do not know the mechanism by which the
"critical data table" is maintained. Are there any timing
windows, where the thing is caught without one copy of the
critical data ? Remember, it only has shitty quality flash
(TLC or QLC) to use on modern devices, and an "SLC like"
voltage threshold behavior on a part of it. And no consumer
devices seem to have a Supercap and a power-fail-detect
circuit. So they're not doing it the right way, that
is for sure. It's all done with firmware tricks.

Enterprise drives can have the Supercap.

If modern SSDs had even a semblance of responsible design,
I would not be telling you this. In the case of HDD design,
they figured out a way to do this for free.

The limits of HDD largesse, is drives with 512MB DRAM cache, may not
have sufficient backup power to finish writing out the cache.
Some of those drives have NAND flash on the controller board,
which during power fail, just sequentially writes out the
cache contents, for reload on the next power-up. Then the
cache flush can be finished properly. Drives with a smaller
cache DRAM (256MB) have sufficient power and time, to write out the
whole DRAM cache to the platter. On those same large cache drives,
if you do a normal shutdown in Windows, the controller does not
waste any NAND flash lifetime, in useless writes. The write
activity is *only* for detected emergency responses. Hard
drives do have voltage detect, and they know when the motor
has dropped below 11V. When they see that, they start the emergency
sequence. Part of the sequence, is they have to keep enough
energy, to park the heads. So it's "quick, write cache out!" and
"quick, move arm and heads to plastic landing tree!". After that,
the drive no longer cares about motor RPMs.

If all is working properly, the heads should never end up
crash landing on the platters. Which is survivable, but is
bad for the drive. In a Hitachi experiment, a head was
operated at "zero clearance" for a month, before the head
was ground off. Lord knows what the platter looked like
after that experiment :-)

Paul

On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 15:21:14 -0400, Paul wrote:
>
> On 6/16/2023 10:55 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
> > On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 07:50:57 -0400, Paul wrote:
> >> How about MSEdge something-or-other opens in your face,
> >> and "can't be dismissed". That's just another example of
> >> this baloney. You can try alt-F4 to dismiss, but my favorite
> >> method is control-alt-delete and kill every instance of
> >> msedge until the damn screen comes back :-) If you have
> >> a hard drive and not an SSD, even hitting the power button
> >> is a valid response.
> >
> > I'm curious, Paul. Why would "hitting the power button"
> > not be "a valid response" if I have an SSD but would be
> > valid if HDD?
> >
> > And are you talking about tapping the power button, to
> > initiate a shutdown sequence, or pressing and holding
> > the power button, to force-stop everything?

Thanks for your answer, Paul. If an SSD might not tell
Windows to hold off on powering down till the SSD is
finished writing -- a possibility that shocks me --
that's certainly a good reason not to power off unless
there's no alternative.

> I don't want to hear any "my SSD is bricked and it's all your fault"
> here. HDD have emergency response that seems to work, and the
> NTFS file system is journaled. This combo seems to work.
>
> With the SSD, we do not know the mechanism by which the
> "critical data table" is maintained. Are there any timing
> windows, where the thing is caught without one copy of the
> critical data ? Remember, it only has shitty quality flash
> (TLC or QLC) to use on modern devices, and an "SLC like"
> voltage threshold behavior on a part of it. And no consumer
> devices seem to have a Supercap and a power-fail-detect
> circuit. So they're not doing it the right way, that
> is for sure. It's all done with firmware tricks.
>
> Enterprise drives can have the Supercap.
>
> If modern SSDs had even a semblance of responsible design,
> I would not be telling you this. In the case of HDD design,
> they figured out a way to do this for free.
>
> The limits of HDD largesse, is drives with 512MB DRAM cache, may not
> have sufficient backup power to finish writing out the cache.
> Some of those drives have NAND flash on the controller board,
> which during power fail, just sequentially writes out the
> cache contents, for reload on the next power-up. Then the
> cache flush can be finished properly. Drives with a smaller
> cache DRAM (256MB) have sufficient power and time, to write out the
> whole DRAM cache to the platter. On those same large cache drives,
> if you do a normal shutdown in Windows, the controller does not
> waste any NAND flash lifetime, in useless writes. The write
> activity is *only* for detected emergency responses. Hard
> drives do have voltage detect, and they know when the motor
> has dropped below 11V. When they see that, they start the emergency
> sequence. Part of the sequence, is they have to keep enough
> energy, to park the heads. So it's "quick, write cache out!" and
> "quick, move arm and heads to plastic landing tree!". After that,
> the drive no longer cares about motor RPMs.
>
> If all is working properly, the heads should never end up
> crash landing on the platters. Which is survivable, but is
> bad for the drive. In a Hitachi experiment, a head was
> operated at "zero clearance" for a month, before the head
> was ground off. Lord knows what the platter looked like
> after that experiment :-)
>
> Paul

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On 6/17/2023 2:20 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 15:21:14 -0400, Paul wrote:
>>
>> On 6/16/2023 10:55 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
>>> On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 07:50:57 -0400, Paul wrote:
>>>> How about MSEdge something-or-other opens in your face,
>>>> and "can't be dismissed". That's just another example of
>>>> this baloney. You can try alt-F4 to dismiss, but my favorite
>>>> method is control-alt-delete and kill every instance of
>>>> msedge until the damn screen comes back :-) If you have
>>>> a hard drive and not an SSD, even hitting the power button
>>>> is a valid response.
>>>
>>> I'm curious, Paul. Why would "hitting the power button"
>>> not be "a valid response" if I have an SSD but would be
>>> valid if HDD?
>>>
>>> And are you talking about tapping the power button, to
>>> initiate a shutdown sequence, or pressing and holding
>>> the power button, to force-stop everything?
>
> Thanks for your answer, Paul. If an SSD might not tell
> Windows to hold off on powering down till the SSD is
> finished writing -- a possibility that shocks me --
> that's certainly a good reason not to power off unless
> there's no alternative.

The summary is "survivability is a function of your firmware".
And firmware has had some pretty stupid bugs in it.

If there was a hardware-enforced mechanism, I could relax and
exhale :-) And that's what a Supercap buys you, is peace of mind
(flush cache, still power left in the cap). Some SSD PCBs even
had the pads for the Supercap and the boost switcher that
makes power for the controller in an emergency. But the BOM (bill of
materials) deletes the Supercap and support components and they
are not installed. The manufacturer likes to tease you with "see,
we do know how to design it, but we're too cheap to install the
components for it".

Paul

Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 16.6.23 1:34 am, Joel wrote:
>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> These two updates were installed on my desktop today:
>>>
>>> 2023-06 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows
>>> 11, version 22H2 for x64 (KB5027119)
>>>
>>> 2023-06 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based
>>> Systems (KB5027231)
>>>
>>> After the update was complete, a full screen Microsoft window came up
>>> saying something like "Let's complete you setup". (I didn't make a
>>> screenshot, didn't think I'd need it.) My choices for this window were
>>> "Remind me in three days", and "Continue". I didn't want to be bugged
>>> later, so I pressed "Continue", hoping I could say no to everything, and
>>> get back to my desktop.
>>>
>>> No such luck. After pressing "Continue", the next window wanted
>>> 'customize my experience' by setting up how I used my machine, things
>>> like entertainment, gaming, school, business...but it did give me the
>>> option to "Skip" this window. I skipped.
>>>
>>> The next window wanted to set up Edge. This window allowed me to "Skip
>>> for now". I skipped for now.
>>>
>>> But, the next window wanted was "Let's add your Microsoft account". It
>>> asked me either sign in or create a MSFT account.
>>>
>>> I don't have a MSFT account, and set this Windows 11 machine up with only
>>> a local account.
>>>
>>> I could not get out of this window. If I clicked "Next", all I got was
>>> the expected reply that my name/pw was incorrect. Pressing "Back" sent
>>> me back, but that didn't get me back to my desktop.
>>>
>>> A CTRL-ALT-Del gave me the opportunity to select Task Manager, but when I
>>> clicked on Task Manager, nothing happened.
>>>
>>> I eventually hit the power button to turn the machine off, and then
>>> turned it back on, and I was back to my desktop.
>>>
>>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/4gnFDm1
>>>
>>> I suspect this may happen again with a future update. Has anyone (with
>>> only a local account) successfully gotten out of this window in a proper
>>> way?
>>>
>>> TIA
>>
>>
>> It may not be what you really want to hear, but you should just create
>> a Microsoft account, and log into Windows with it. This obsessive
>> need, to work around that, is just missing the point of using a modern
>> computer, with the latest and greatest OS.
>>
>
> I too can't see why it is a problem to have a Microsoft account - mine
> comes in quite handy on many occasions.

It's not a problem it's an annoyance. MS has managed fine for nearly 30
years without needing us to create an account with them simply to be able
to use Windows. This "feature" only benefits them. The heavy handedness is
unnecessary.

> > On 16.6.23 1:34 am, Joel wrote:
> >> It may not be what you really want to hear, but you should just create
> >> a Microsoft account, and log into Windows with it. This obsessive
> >> need, to work around that, is just missing the point of using a modern
> >> computer, with the latest and greatest OS.

> Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
> > I too can't see why it is a problem to have a Microsoft account - mine
> > comes in quite handy on many occasions.
On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:33:35 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> It's not a problem it's an annoyance. MS has managed fine for nearly 30
> years without needing us to create an account with them simply to be able
> to use Windows. This "feature" only benefits them. The heavy handedness is
> unnecessary.

Good answer, Chris!

I'll just add that one big negative to having a Microsoft account,
for many of us, is that it helps Microsoft to aggregate information
about us: "we are not the customers, we are (our personal information
is) the product."

I play Microsoft solitaire games on my Windows 10 desktop. Many of
the ads -- too many to be coincidence -- are targeted at my age group
or residents of my small town, or both. Even without a Microsoft
account, Microsoft somehow knows both of those, and it's creepy. I
resist doing anything to make it easier for them to get more
information.

A few months ago there was discussion about transferring files
between an Android phone and Windows without plugging in a USB cable,
and I believe the consensus is that it was impossible, or at least
very difficult, without third-party software. How-to Geek recently
published an article about doing just that with Phone Link, which in
part of Windows. But Phone Link requires a Microsoft account, and I
couldn't find any way around that. I will live with the inconvenience
of having to plug in a cable. (Unfortunately, I have the additional
inconvenience that Phone Link is now nagging me to finish setup, so
now I have to figure out how to stop the nags. In any case, a number
of reviews were scathing about problems with the Microsoft phone
app.)

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

> I play Microsoft solitaire games on my Windows 10 desktop. Many of
> the ads -- too many to be coincidence -- are targeted at my age group
> or residents of my small town, or both. Even without a Microsoft
> account, Microsoft somehow knows both of those, and it's creepy. I
> resist doing anything to make it easier for them to get more
> information.
>
>

Does it also happen when you are offline? The trick to stop ads in
Solitaire is to play it offline. This means unplug the Ethernet cable or
airplane mode for Wi-Fi before launching the game.

On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 16:19:51 -0700, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>I play Microsoft solitaire games on my Windows 10 desktop. Many of
>the ads -- too many to be coincidence -- are targeted at my age group
>or residents of my small town, or both. Even without a Microsoft
>account, Microsoft somehow knows both of those, and it's creepy. I
>resist doing anything to make it easier for them to get more
>information.

Yuck, that's why I've never even tried the Win 10 versions of MS games.
I just bring the games forward from XP or 7, I forget which. Ads,
especially targeted ads, would bum me out.

On 6/17/2023 7:19 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
>
>>> On 16.6.23 1:34 am, Joel wrote:
>>>> It may not be what you really want to hear, but you should just create
>>>> a Microsoft account, and log into Windows with it. This obsessive
>>>> need, to work around that, is just missing the point of using a modern
>>>> computer, with the latest and greatest OS.
>
>> Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> I too can't see why it is a problem to have a Microsoft account - mine
>>> comes in quite handy on many occasions.
>
> On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:33:35 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>> It's not a problem it's an annoyance. MS has managed fine for nearly 30
>> years without needing us to create an account with them simply to be able
>> to use Windows. This "feature" only benefits them. The heavy handedness is
>> unnecessary.
>
> Good answer, Chris!
>
> I'll just add that one big negative to having a Microsoft account,
> for many of us, is that it helps Microsoft to aggregate information
> about us: "we are not the customers, we are (our personal information
> is) the product."
>
> I play Microsoft solitaire games on my Windows 10 desktop. Many of
> the ads -- too many to be coincidence -- are targeted at my age group
> or residents of my small town, or both. Even without a Microsoft
> account, Microsoft somehow knows both of those, and it's creepy. I
> resist doing anything to make it easier for them to get more
> information.
>
> A few months ago there was discussion about transferring files
> between an Android phone and Windows without plugging in a USB cable,
> and I believe the consensus is that it was impossible, or at least
> very difficult, without third-party software. How-to Geek recently
> published an article about doing just that with Phone Link, which in
> part of Windows. But Phone Link requires a Microsoft account, and I
> couldn't find any way around that. I will live with the inconvenience
> of having to plug in a cable. (Unfortunately, I have the additional
> inconvenience that Phone Link is now nagging me to finish setup, so
> now I have to figure out how to stop the nags. In any case, a number
> of reviews were scathing about problems with the Microsoft phone
> app.)
>
Instead of MS Games use Pysol. Free, many games, no adds

On 18/06/2023 00:19, Stan Brown wrote:
>
> snip <
>
> I play Microsoft solitaire games on my Windows 10 desktop. Many of
> the ads -- too many to be coincidence -- are targeted at my age group
> or residents of my small town, or both. Even without a Microsoft
> account, Microsoft somehow knows both of those, and it's creepy. I
> resist doing anything to make it easier for them to get more
> information.
>
> snip <
>

I use XM Solitaire
- https://sourceforge.net/projects/xmsol/

200 card games for Windows (Freecell, Klondike, Fan, Spider, Pyramid,
Gaps, etc.
Games layout and rules are declared in XML format.
User can add his own cards and background images.
• resizeable window
• unlimited undo, redo
• statistics, score, time
• right-click moves a card to the most suitable cell according to game rules
• double-click moves a card to a free cell
• quickly move whole column if you have enough free cells

--
Regards
wasbit

On 2023-06-17 7:19 p.m., Stan Brown wrote:
>
>>> On 16.6.23 1:34 am, Joel wrote:
>>>> It may not be what you really want to hear, but you should just create
>>>> a Microsoft account, and log into Windows with it. This obsessive
>>>> need, to work around that, is just missing the point of using a modern
>>>> computer, with the latest and greatest OS.
>
>> Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> I too can't see why it is a problem to have a Microsoft account - mine
>>> comes in quite handy on many occasions.
>
> On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:33:35 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>> It's not a problem it's an annoyance. MS has managed fine for nearly 30
>> years without needing us to create an account with them simply to be able
>> to use Windows. This "feature" only benefits them. The heavy handedness is
>> unnecessary.
>
> Good answer, Chris!
>
> I'll just add that one big negative to having a Microsoft account,
> for many of us, is that it helps Microsoft to aggregate information
> about us: "we are not the customers, we are (our personal information
> is) the product."
>
> I play Microsoft solitaire games on my Windows 10 desktop. Many of
> the ads -- too many to be coincidence -- are targeted at my age group
> or residents of my small town, or both. Even without a Microsoft
> account, Microsoft somehow knows both of those, and it's creepy. I
> resist doing anything to make it easier for them to get more
> information.

Microsoft does a good job of explaining targeted ads. In the end, you're
going to get the ads anyway; would you rather they be relevant to you or
completely random? Those who would prefer random ones, to me, seem a
little paranoid.

> A few months ago there was discussion about transferring files
> between an Android phone and Windows without plugging in a USB cable,
> and I believe the consensus is that it was impossible, or at least
> very difficult, without third-party software. How-to Geek recently
> published an article about doing just that with Phone Link, which in
> part of Windows. But Phone Link requires a Microsoft account, and I
> couldn't find any way around that. I will live with the inconvenience
> of having to plug in a cable. (Unfortunately, I have the additional
> inconvenience that Phone Link is now nagging me to finish setup, so
> now I have to figure out how to stop the nags. In any case, a number
> of reviews were scathing about problems with the Microsoft phone
> app.)

Phone Link has been wonderful for my iPhone since the update. I wouldn't
want to live without it now.

--
rabidPedagog
TG: @rabidPedagog
Galatians 6:7

On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 16:19:51 -0700
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> > > On 16.6.23 1:34 am, Joel wrote:
> > >> It may not be what you really want to hear, but you should just
> > >> create a Microsoft account, and log into Windows with it. This
> > >> obsessive need, to work around that, is just missing the point
> > >> of using a modern computer, with the latest and greatest OS.
>
> > Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
> > > I too can't see why it is a problem to have a Microsoft account -
> > > mine comes in quite handy on many occasions.
>
> On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:33:35 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> > It's not a problem it's an annoyance. MS has managed fine for
> > nearly 30 years without needing us to create an account with them
> > simply to be able to use Windows. This "feature" only benefits
> > them. The heavy handedness is unnecessary.
>
> Good answer, Chris!
>
> I'll just add that one big negative to having a Microsoft account,
> for many of us, is that it helps Microsoft to aggregate information
> about us: "we are not the customers, we are (our personal information
> is) the product."

It amazes me how people will put up with an operating system that
annoys them constantly.

On 6/18/23 07:58, this is what Johnny wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 16:19:51 -0700
> Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>>>> On 16.6.23 1:34 am, Joel wrote:
>>>>> It may not be what you really want to hear, but you should just
>>>>> create a Microsoft account, and log into Windows with it. This
>>>>> obsessive need, to work around that, is just missing the point
>>>>> of using a modern computer, with the latest and greatest OS.
>>
>>> Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>> I too can't see why it is a problem to have a Microsoft account -
>>>> mine comes in quite handy on many occasions.
>>
>> On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:33:35 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>> It's not a problem it's an annoyance. MS has managed fine for
>>> nearly 30 years without needing us to create an account with them
>>> simply to be able to use Windows. This "feature" only benefits
>>> them. The heavy handedness is unnecessary.
>>
>> Good answer, Chris!
>>
>> I'll just add that one big negative to having a Microsoft account,
>> for many of us, is that it helps Microsoft to aggregate information
>> about us: "we are not the customers, we are (our personal information
>> is) the product."
>
> It amazes me how people will put up with an operating system that
> annoys them constantly.
>
+1
Most of the reason I left MS.
But even so, I still can spend a few days a month playing on Windows. I don't see anything wrong with it. Of course
I'm still on Win10, but my wife is on Win11 and I don't hear any bitching about ads. I get more ads on my Android
phone. The latest update to my 'fastnote' note taking app now dumps a full page ad whenever I look at a note. EVERY
time, not just once in a blue moon. That's going to be replaced soon if I find better.
--
Linux Mint 21.1 Cinnamon 5.6.8
Al

On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 22:10:52 -0400, Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam>
wrote:

>On 6/17/2023 7:19 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
>>
>>>> On 16.6.23 1:34 am, Joel wrote:

>>
>Instead of MS Games use Pysol. Free, many games, no adds

Fare Thee Well

As of 2004 any work on PySol has stopped, and PySol is
officially discontinued.

Fortunately a number of enthusiastic people have continued from
where I left off and have created the PySol Fan Club* edition.
Please contribute all your patches and enhancements to this new
project.

It has been very much fun creating this game, and I hope you
will appreciate the result of my efforts. Share and enjoy!

* http://pysolfc.sourceforge.net/