On 11/3/2023 4:21 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote on 11/3/23 7:51 AM:
>> ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Frank Slootweg wrote on 02-Nov-23 8:01 AM:
>> [...]
>>>>     My current state (Windows 11 Home 22H2) in Windows Update is:
>>>>
>>>> "You're up to date
>>>>    Last checked: Today, 10:27
>>>>
>>>>    (i) 2023-10 Cumulative Update Preview for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for
>>>>        x64-based Systems (KB5031455) is available.
>>>>
>>>>    [Download & Install]"
>>>>
>>>>     I have followed this thread (so far 38 posts), so I can kind of figure
>>>> out what is (not) happening, but still have some questions/notes:
>>>>
>>>> - Why doesn't it say anywhere that 23H2 is coming in the near future?
>>>>
>>>> - Why does it say 'Preview' and why doesn't it (download and) install
>>>>     it.  instead of offering the user a '[Download & Install]' button?
>>>>     N.B. I normally do not manually install Preview, optional, etc.
>>>>     updates.
>>>>
>>>> - Will the KB5031455 'Preview' update change to a normal non-Preview
>>>>     update on the second Tuesday of this month (November 14)?
>>>>
>>>>     N.B. I am not in any kind of a hurry (and hence have not turned on the
>>>> 'Get the latest updates as sooon as they're available' switch), but I
>>>> find this whole approach rather confusing for Joe Average: I *said* I
>>>> don't want the latest update, so why offer me a 'Preview' update,
>>>> without any information? (Yes, there's an '(i)' icon, but no link. And
>>>> yes, I've looked up KB5031455 on the Microsoft site, but the results are
>>>> clear as mud for me, let alone for Joe.)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Frank.
>>>    It would be helpful if you clarified your Win10 22H2 edition
>>>    - Home or Pro
>>>
>>> The 23H2 update deployment(like in the past) may be different and even
>>> more so based on the device that Windows Update sees.
>>>
>>> KB5031455
>>>    - if you read the above, KB5031455 contains the LCU and SSU(Latest
>>> cumulative update and servicing stack update). KB5031455 is preview for
>>> 22H2 and 23H2(same KB number for both 22H2 and 23H2)
>>>
>>> Here's where some confusion and variation exist.
>>> For some devices
>>>    - 23H2 being offered to 22H2 may only be seen when KB5031455 has been
>>> installed.
>>>    - 23H2 being offered to 22H2 may be seen without KB5031455 being installed.
>>>    This variation is due to 23H2 deployment occuring in stages(not all
>>> devides at the same time, and some devices it may be months before 23H2
>>> is offered and well after KB5031455 has been installed or replaced with
>>> later LCU's and SSU(LCU in Preview form or the non_Preview the following
>>> month/2nd Tues.)
>>>
>>> If the latter occurs, 23H2 offered when KB5031455 is not installed, once
>>> 23H2 updates, KB5031455 will be offered in Windows Update. During that
>>> restart, KB5031455 will be installed as well as turning on additional
>>> n23H2 unique bits included in 23H2.
>>>
>>> Notifications that 23H2 is coming in the near future is typically a media
>>> article. Microsoft approach is to provide a notice to Windows
>>> Insiders(that was done on Sept 23rd when the 23H2 was deployed to the
>>> Release Preview Channel. Once 23H2 was released to the general public(Oct
>>> 31st), Microsoft's initial notice to the general public is done via the
>>> Windows Blog(that was done on Oct 31st).
>>>    => Once the 22H2(or 21H2) device is within the staging deployment
>>> availability, the device is offered 23H2.
>>>
>>> In general terms.
>>> For those reading along that use 21H2
>>>    W11 21H2 to W11 23H2 = W11 22H2 + EKB
>>> For those reading along that use 22H2
>>>    W11 22H2 to W11 23H2 = EKB only
>>>    where EKB equals Enablement Package
>>
>>    Thanks Winston for your clear and complete answers. I'm totally in the
>> know now! :-)
>>
>>    BTW, my Windows 11 22H2 edition is Pro (it was in my text, but
>> probably a bit out of sight).
>>
>>    BTW2, in the meantime, the Windows Update status has changed and now
>> says:
>>
>> "You're up to date
>>   Last checked: Today, 11:22
>>
>>   (i) Windows 11, version 23H2 is available.      [Download & Install X]
>>
>>       See what's in this update"
>>
>>    So
>>
>>   (i) 2023-10 Cumulative Update Preview for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for
>>       x64-based Systems (KB5031455) is available.
>>
>> is no longer listed (has not been installed (not visible in Update
>> history)).
>>
>>    And the 23H2 update has been announced, so all is good!
>>
> Hi, Frank.
>  Your experience earlier post and latest on Win11 'available' notice and Preview offer(before but not after the current Win11 availability notice) fits right in the expected variation.
>
> This Win11 Pro device(now at 23H2) in 22H2 had the Win11 23H2 available notice but not the KB5031455 Preview update offer.  Once 23H2 was installed(22631.2428) after restart KB5031455 was offered.
>  - it took about 1 minute for 23H2 to update to 23H2 RTM build number, once the preview was installed(3 minute wait after restart to desktop logon) the build number updated to the current released build 22631.2506
>
> My other Win11 Pro 22H2 device offered the preview, once it was installed didn't offer 23H2. A day later after a shutdown/restart the 23H2 available offer appeared.
>  - I've not yet updated that device since I like to image b/f a feature update is installed b/c using the Enablement Package(EKB) method doesn't provide the 10 Day Go Back option.
>
> Another piece of variation that's been reported in Enterprise community for non-domained, not server connected Win11 Pro devices when the 23H2 shows as being available - clicking on the Check Update button initiates the 23H2 download and install of the EKB(i.e. in lieu of the need to click on the 23H2 available notice to start the EKB download/install)
>

I did a 22631 test upgrade on my W11Pro disk, and the
"Home" and "Gallery" folders actually do something :-)
Amazing.

On the W11Home that hasn't been upgraded yet,
I got "Home" and "Gallery" folders already, but they lack "moving parts"
and don't do anything.

Reminds me of Cracker Jacks boxes, as a kid :-)
I will be dumping WinSxS on the floor, while I look for my prize.

https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/70650287876697234/

Paul

On 04/11/2023 02:47, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> By default, Windows 11 put all of the same user processes in the same
> icon group in the taskbar.  If you have seven command prompt windows
> like I usually have, you get one icon for all seven windows.  I prefer
> to get seven icons in the task bar as I know which command prompt I am
> headed to.  23H2 restored the capability from Windows 10 to put one icon
> in the taskbar for each user process window that you have.

Command prompt windows have tabs now.
You don't have to have multiple Windows.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/11/2023 02:47, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > By default, Windows 11 put all of the same user processes in the same
> > icon group in the taskbar.  If you have seven command prompt windows
> > like I usually have, you get one icon for all seven windows.  I prefer
> > to get seven icons in the task bar as I know which command prompt I am
> > headed to.  23H2 restored the capability from Windows 10 to put one icon
> > in the taskbar for each user process window that you have.
>
> Command prompt windows have tabs now.
> You don't have to have multiple Windows.

Yes you do, if you want to have normal 'Windows Console Host' type
windows (instead of the new/different 'Windows Terminal' type window).

'Command Prompt and Windows Powershell for Windows 11'
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/command-prompt-and-windows-powershell-for-windows-11-6453ce98-da91-476f-8651-5c14d5777c20#>

Paul wrote on 11/4/23 8:47 AM:
> On 11/3/2023 4:21 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>> Frank Slootweg wrote on 11/3/23 7:51 AM:
>>> ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Frank Slootweg wrote on 02-Nov-23 8:01 AM:
>>> [...]
>>>>>     My current state (Windows 11 Home 22H2) in Windows Update is:
>>>>>
>>>>> "You're up to date
>>>>>    Last checked: Today, 10:27
>>>>>
>>>>>    (i) 2023-10 Cumulative Update Preview for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for
>>>>>        x64-based Systems (KB5031455) is available.
>>>>>
>>>>>    [Download & Install]"
>>>>>
>>>>>     I have followed this thread (so far 38 posts), so I can kind of figure
>>>>> out what is (not) happening, but still have some questions/notes:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Why doesn't it say anywhere that 23H2 is coming in the near future?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Why does it say 'Preview' and why doesn't it (download and) install
>>>>>     it.  instead of offering the user a '[Download & Install]' button?
>>>>>     N.B. I normally do not manually install Preview, optional, etc.
>>>>>     updates.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Will the KB5031455 'Preview' update change to a normal non-Preview
>>>>>     update on the second Tuesday of this month (November 14)?
>>>>>
>>>>>     N.B. I am not in any kind of a hurry (and hence have not turned on the
>>>>> 'Get the latest updates as sooon as they're available' switch), but I
>>>>> find this whole approach rather confusing for Joe Average: I *said* I
>>>>> don't want the latest update, so why offer me a 'Preview' update,
>>>>> without any information? (Yes, there's an '(i)' icon, but no link. And
>>>>> yes, I've looked up KB5031455 on the Microsoft site, but the results are
>>>>> clear as mud for me, let alone for Joe.)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Frank.
>>>>    It would be helpful if you clarified your Win10 22H2 edition
>>>>    - Home or Pro
>>>>
>>>> The 23H2 update deployment(like in the past) may be different and even
>>>> more so based on the device that Windows Update sees.
>>>>
>>>> KB5031455
>>>>    - if you read the above, KB5031455 contains the LCU and SSU(Latest
>>>> cumulative update and servicing stack update). KB5031455 is preview for
>>>> 22H2 and 23H2(same KB number for both 22H2 and 23H2)
>>>>
>>>> Here's where some confusion and variation exist.
>>>> For some devices
>>>>    - 23H2 being offered to 22H2 may only be seen when KB5031455 has been
>>>> installed.
>>>>    - 23H2 being offered to 22H2 may be seen without KB5031455 being installed.
>>>>    This variation is due to 23H2 deployment occuring in stages(not all
>>>> devides at the same time, and some devices it may be months before 23H2
>>>> is offered and well after KB5031455 has been installed or replaced with
>>>> later LCU's and SSU(LCU in Preview form or the non_Preview the following
>>>> month/2nd Tues.)
>>>>
>>>> If the latter occurs, 23H2 offered when KB5031455 is not installed, once
>>>> 23H2 updates, KB5031455 will be offered in Windows Update. During that
>>>> restart, KB5031455 will be installed as well as turning on additional
>>>> n23H2 unique bits included in 23H2.
>>>>
>>>> Notifications that 23H2 is coming in the near future is typically a media
>>>> article. Microsoft approach is to provide a notice to Windows
>>>> Insiders(that was done on Sept 23rd when the 23H2 was deployed to the
>>>> Release Preview Channel. Once 23H2 was released to the general public(Oct
>>>> 31st), Microsoft's initial notice to the general public is done via the
>>>> Windows Blog(that was done on Oct 31st).
>>>>    => Once the 22H2(or 21H2) device is within the staging deployment
>>>> availability, the device is offered 23H2.
>>>>
>>>> In general terms.
>>>> For those reading along that use 21H2
>>>>    W11 21H2 to W11 23H2 = W11 22H2 + EKB
>>>> For those reading along that use 22H2
>>>>    W11 22H2 to W11 23H2 = EKB only
>>>>    where EKB equals Enablement Package
>>>
>>>    Thanks Winston for your clear and complete answers. I'm totally in the
>>> know now! :-)
>>>
>>>    BTW, my Windows 11 22H2 edition is Pro (it was in my text, but
>>> probably a bit out of sight).
>>>
>>>    BTW2, in the meantime, the Windows Update status has changed and now
>>> says:
>>>
>>> "You're up to date
>>>   Last checked: Today, 11:22
>>>
>>>   (i) Windows 11, version 23H2 is available.      [Download & Install X]
>>>
>>>       See what's in this update"
>>>
>>>    So
>>>
>>>   (i) 2023-10 Cumulative Update Preview for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for
>>>       x64-based Systems (KB5031455) is available.
>>>
>>> is no longer listed (has not been installed (not visible in Update
>>> history)).
>>>
>>>    And the 23H2 update has been announced, so all is good!
>>>
>> Hi, Frank.
>>  Your experience earlier post and latest on Win11 'available' notice and Preview offer(before but not after the current Win11 availability notice) fits right in the expected variation.
>>
>> This Win11 Pro device(now at 23H2) in 22H2 had the Win11 23H2 available notice but not the KB5031455 Preview update offer.  Once 23H2 was installed(22631.2428) after restart KB5031455 was offered.
>>  - it took about 1 minute for 23H2 to update to 23H2 RTM build number, once the preview was installed(3 minute wait after restart to desktop logon) the build number updated to the current released build 22631.2506
>>
>> My other Win11 Pro 22H2 device offered the preview, once it was installed didn't offer 23H2. A day later after a shutdown/restart the 23H2 available offer appeared.
>>  - I've not yet updated that device since I like to image b/f a feature update is installed b/c using the Enablement Package(EKB) method doesn't provide the 10 Day Go Back option.
>>
>> Another piece of variation that's been reported in Enterprise community for non-domained, not server connected Win11 Pro devices when the 23H2 shows as being available - clicking on the Check Update button initiates the 23H2 download and install of the EKB(i.e. in lieu of the need to click on the 23H2 available notice to start the EKB download/install)
>>
>
> I did a 22631 test upgrade on my W11Pro disk, and the
> "Home" and "Gallery" folders actually do something :-)
> Amazing.
>
> On the W11Home that hasn't been upgraded yet,
> I got "Home" and "Gallery" folders already, but they lack "moving parts"
> and don't do anything.
>
> Reminds me of Cracker Jacks boxes, as a kid :-)
> I will be dumping WinSxS on the floor, while I look for my prize.
>
> https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/70650287876697234/
>
> Paul
>
If you noticed a prior post of mine where the links for the Enablement
Package(EKB stand-alone *.msu installer, the size is less than 200 KB.

I.e. if running 22H2 on Win11 or Win10, and updated to a recent LCU(e.g.
Sept or Oct) most of the 23H2 bits are already present. The EKB and if
not already installed KB5031455 Preview just needs to turn them on.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 04/11/2023 20:13, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
>> On 04/11/2023 02:47, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> By default, Windows 11 put all of the same user processes in the same
>>> icon group in the taskbar.  If you have seven command prompt windows
>>> like I usually have, you get one icon for all seven windows.  I prefer
>>> to get seven icons in the task bar as I know which command prompt I am
>>> headed to.  23H2 restored the capability from Windows 10 to put one icon
>>> in the taskbar for each user process window that you have.
>>
>> Command prompt windows have tabs now.
>> You don't have to have multiple Windows.
>
> Yes you do, if you want to have normal 'Windows Console Host' type
> windows (instead of the new/different 'Windows Terminal' type window).
>
> 'Command Prompt and Windows Powershell for Windows 11'
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/command-prompt-and-windows-powershell-for-windows-11-6453ce98-da91-476f-8651-5c14d5777c20#>

See: https://www.Brian-Gregory.me.uk/GDL/tabbedcmd.png

I have set CMD as default command prompt (rather than PowerShell) but I
don't think you have to.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 11/3/23 11:40, Paul wrote:
> https://i.postimg.cc/0yHRxhjV/ungroup-icons-W11.gif

You would not happen to have a clearer picture of that?

On 11/4/23 16:30, T wrote:
> On 11/3/23 11:40, Paul wrote:
>>      https://i.postimg.cc/0yHRxhjV/ungroup-icons-W11.gif
>
> You would not happen to have a clearer picture of that?

Found it:
https://i.postimg.cc/BJJq500f/ungroup-icons-W11.gif?dl=1

On 11/4/2023 7:36 PM, T wrote:
> On 11/4/23 16:30, T wrote:
>> On 11/3/23 11:40, Paul wrote:
>>>      https://i.postimg.cc/0yHRxhjV/ungroup-icons-W11.gif
>>
>> You would not happen to have a clearer picture of that?
>
>
> Found it:
>    https://i.postimg.cc/BJJq500f/ungroup-icons-W11.gif?dl=1

"Download Original" is as clear as what the site has got.

Since my pictures tend to be a bit large on X*Y , then
they will always be distorted in the first view. Clicking
mouse to magnify is first step. View Image via right click
plus click-mouse to magnify, is the seconds step. If still
not clear, "Download Original" at the top of the page is
the third step.

The site has a 10,000 pixel limit on dimension. Presumably
assuming the user will use a wasteful image format. I try to
make my images cartoon like, and compress with GIF. Sometimes
I get a good result on size, sometimes not so much.

That site uses a petabyte of bandwidth per month. Which is
$30,000 worth or so :-) I can't understand how their advertising
campaign pays for that. Maybe the adverts use more BW than
the pictures.

Paul

Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/11/2023 20:13, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 04/11/2023 02:47, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >>> By default, Windows 11 put all of the same user processes in the same
> >>> icon group in the taskbar.  If you have seven command prompt windows
> >>> like I usually have, you get one icon for all seven windows.  I prefer
> >>> to get seven icons in the task bar as I know which command prompt I am
> >>> headed to.  23H2 restored the capability from Windows 10 to put one icon
> >>> in the taskbar for each user process window that you have.
> >>
> >> Command prompt windows have tabs now.
> >> You don't have to have multiple Windows.
> >
> > Yes you do, if you want to have normal 'Windows Console Host' type
> > windows (instead of the new/different 'Windows Terminal' type window).
> >
> > 'Command Prompt and Windows Powershell for Windows 11'
> > <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/command-prompt-and-windows-powershell-for-windows-11-6453ce98-da91-476f-8651-5c14d5777c20#>
>
>
> See: https://www.Brian-Gregory.me.uk/GDL/tabbedcmd.png
>
> I have set CMD as default command prompt (rather than PowerShell) but I
> don't think you have to.

Yes, I know you can have a tabbed 'Command Prompt' (CMD) window, but
as the article explains, the 'app' which runs the window is different.

That means it doesn't run my profile, the size is different, the
colours are different, the font is different, the size of the font is
different, the editing functions are different, lots of other settings
are different, I think you get the picture.

Maybe you can tweak the Windows Terminal 'app' in such a way that the
result is somewhat similar to that of the Windows Console Host app, but
I doubt that you can make them the *same*, because they aren't the same.

Anyway, I need seperate Command Prompt windows (instead of tabs),
because I need them simultaneously in sight.

Tabs is not a replacement for seperate windows, that's why most tabbed
programs - webbrowser, File Explorer, mail agent, etc. - use both.

FWIW, in my webbrowser and File Explorer I mostly use tabs and - as
said - for Command Prompt I use seperate windows.

On 11/5/2023 4:57 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Anyway, I need seperate Command Prompt windows (instead of tabs),
> because I need them simultaneously in sight.

OK, try dragging one of those tabs, to the desktop.

What happens ?

Paul

Paul wrote on 11/4/23 9:47 PM:
> On 11/4/2023 7:36 PM, T wrote:
>> On 11/4/23 16:30, T wrote:
>>> On 11/3/23 11:40, Paul wrote:
>>>>      https://i.postimg.cc/0yHRxhjV/ungroup-icons-W11.gif
>>>
>>> You would not happen to have a clearer picture of that?
>>
>>
>> Found it:
>>    https://i.postimg.cc/BJJq500f/ungroup-icons-W11.gif?dl=1
>
> "Download Original" is as clear as what the site has got.
>
> Since my pictures tend to be a bit large on X*Y , then
> they will always be distorted in the first view. Clicking
> mouse to magnify is first step. View Image via right click
> plus click-mouse to magnify, is the seconds step. If still
> not clear, "Download Original" at the top of the page is
> the third step.
>
> The site has a 10,000 pixel limit on dimension. Presumably
> assuming the user will use a wasteful image format. I try to
> make my images cartoon like, and compress with GIF. Sometimes
> I get a good result on size, sometimes not so much.
>
> That site uses a petabyte of bandwidth per month. Which is
> $30,000 worth or so :-) I can't understand how their advertising
> campaign pays for that. Maybe the adverts use more BW than
> the pictures.
>
> Paul
>

Or just right click, copy image, and paste into picture viewing
software(.e.g. Paint 3D, Irfanview) and use the options to resize.
- fyi...Paint 3D by design to supports the mouse wheel to enlarge.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/5/2023 4:57 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > Anyway, I need seperate Command Prompt windows (instead of tabs),
> > because I need them simultaneously in sight.
>
> OK, try dragging one of those tabs, to the desktop.
>
> What happens ?

Huh? As I said, I don't have (read: can't use) tabs, so I can't drag
one of them.

And, in case you missed the/my point, I cannot have tabs, because I
want/need the windows to be run by the 'Windows Console Host' app, *not*
the 'Windows Terminal' app. So I want/need 'legacy' behaviour and
setting the default to 'Windows Console Host' is the only way to get
that.

Because I neither need nor want tabbed Command Prompt windows, it's
not an issue. It was only a nuisance that (in 22H2) Microsoft changed
the default without saying so, which fscked up my Command Prompt windows
and needed me to do a Google search to find out what happened and how to
correct it. But that's the life of a Windows user, isn't it!? :-(

Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

>>Installation Assistant failed for me multiple times, including after a
>>reboot. I tried running setup.exe from the mounted ISO once, prior to
>>the reboot, now that it's a new day, I'm giving that one more shot.
>
>I will have to hope Windows Update's eventual release of 23H2 will
>work. Can't do an in-place upgrade no matter what I try.

Windows Update worked, just now, woke up to see it had gotten ready to
install, rebooted, and it's good.

--
Joel Crump