On 10/27/2023 5:37 AM, Robert in CA wrote:
> I have my 6 TB hd and now just waiting for the case.
> Then I'll try cloning it.
>
> Here's your instructions for cloning but as I say
> they have automated the mrimg backups allot so I
> think it may be the same with cloning.
>
> https://postimg.cc/ft67JpfL
>
> <some snipped for brevity>
>
> https://postimg.cc/yDqzKygy
>
> I typed somesite.com and this is what it showed:
>
> https://postimg.cc/SXPKWz1T
>
> It's interesting you looked up Righteous Warriors,
> It was started by someone I use to know and I was
> surprised it still was up. I tried contacting him but
> never got a reply.
>
> I barely am understanding you with the IPV4 and
> IPV6 addresses. I'm trying to follow along.
>
> Is there anything you want me to do? Run any
> tests?
>
> Thanks,
> Robert

The reference to "somesite.com" was similar to "example.com",
just to show you the format.

Not to actually go there.

I wanted you to type a domain name, "example.com" or
whatever domain you're trying to use.

*******

These links may point at the Macrium cloning disk instructions.
One of these links should work.

Clicking the "Download Original" <===

allows you to keep a copy of the single file with all the pictures in it.

https://s22.postimg.cc/487zw4g1d/Clone_Disk.gif
https://postimg.cc/Zv6vZckT

*******

As it turns out, your request to "just clone the 2TB bootable backup drive
to the 6TB drive", this is a bit more complicated than expected :-)

You see, your previous backup drives (with their boot OS on them),
they were 2TB drives. That wasn't by accident, by the way. I am
a schemer. A schemer who hates surprises.

You can take the new 6TB drive, make it GPT
(GUID Partition Table, instead of MSDOS MBR partition table type),
and then in Disk Management, you can define the entire
6TB drive, as one partition.

That works fine.

The money is not wasted, because, you can use the *entire* drive
for backups. No problemo. When it asks what flavor of partitioning
you want, a 6TB drive works best with "GPT".

The problem comes, when you try to fit the older OS image you've
got, onto the 6TB drive. Remember that MSDOS MBR partitioned disks,
they work up to 2.2TB, so a 2.0TB disk was a "perfect fit for the job".

The MBR only has enough address space for the 2TB drive. It cannot
access storage above that point. There are two "hacks" for turning the
space above 2TB, into separate virtual drives (Acronis Capacity Manager
is one of the methods), but these are not practical. I used to run that,
but I got rid of it, because it was making me crazy.

If the disk is made GPT, and we want to boot the OS, we have:

UEFI GPT <=== most users do this. The OS installer does this
It is unlikely the Optiplex 780 has UEFI. I am
unable to confirm whether A15 BIOS update for the 780,
actually has UEFI option in it.

CSM GPT <=== this can be done with a Syslinux replacement MBR,
plus setting a GPT attribute bit, to support legacy
"boot flag" or Active flag, but in GPT-land.

https://superuser.com/questions/1750366/boot-a-legacy-bios-os-on-a-gpt-mass-memory

https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/boot/syslinux/Testing/6.04/syslinux-6.04-pre1.tar.xz

"You can install the Syslinux MBR boot code (gptmbr.bin), which behaves very much
like traditional MBRs that jump to an active partition's PBR, but understands GPT
partition tables and looks for a similarly named GPT attribute flag. (Specifically,
it checks bit 2 which gdisk calls "Legacy BIOS bootable.") The rest of Syslinux
is not needed."

You will notice this article,

https://wiki.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Mbr

does not address setting the GPT Attribute
in order to make gptmbr.bin to jump to the correct partition. You can set
some GPT things in Linux, which is what the previous paragraph proposes.
But "diskpart.exe" utility in Windows can also do that, and I've already had
to repair one GPT Attribute in the past using that.

You can help, by taking a screenshot of Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc)
of the 780 2TB bootable backup drive, to help me verify I'm preparing
my new recipe properly.

I hope by doing it this strange way, I will *AVOID* asking you to:

1) Flash update the Optiplex 780 BIOS. I don't want to do that.
It is unlikely to help, and I can't verify it would help.

2) Use the Microsoft MBR2GPT.exe utility. If you have your Win10 you installed
to get the Win10 license, there might be a copy of MBR2GPT.exe on there.
I don't really want to do that.

Instead, the steps will likely involve.

1) Macrium Reflect clone of Win7 C: and System Reserved, to the 6TB disk.
2) dd.exe transfer of 440 byte "gptmbr.bin" binary file, to the MBR sector.
This leaves the 0xEE protective partition single entry in the partition table, alone.
3) A diskpart session, selecting the currently active partition, and
making it active by setting GPT attribute to 0x4 or so. It'll be
something like that.
4) Test boot of the new setup, to see it vectors based on the GPT attribute it finds.
The reason the GPT attribute must be set, is the traditional 0x80 boot flag
has no equivalent in GPT-land directly (the same way as before).

Anyway, post a screenshot of the 2TB backup drive in Disk Management
(not file explorer), so I can have a look at it. In Windows 7,
Start : Run : diskmgmt.msc will give a nice clean picture.

Paul

On 10/27/2023 7:18 AM, Robert in CA wrote:
> I removed the Apple programs from the 780 but kept
> SequoiaView. You never know, I may need it again.
>
> Hopefully, we can get the 6TB hd up and running before
> Nov 1 for the mrimgs.
>
> Robert
>

If we don't make it bootable, it can be ready in about
30 seconds.

See my other post, for how to boot the 6TB drive :-)
It's not as easy as I thought.

Paul

I have the set of instructions for cloning
when you initially gave them to me.

I accidentally clicked on the Syslinux
download on the 8500 but deleted it
afterwards.

I don't understand, we never went through
all of this with the other 6TB hd as I remember.
Maybe we didn't make it boot-able? They weren't
meant to be after all they are external drives.

Let me ask a question. As it is now, once I
get the case for it could I create a folder on
the 6TB hd for mrimgs without a OS? If
so, I think that's what I did with the other 6TB
because that's actually all I see on my other 6TB
hd. Just a folder that says 8500 mrimgs, nothing
else.

Here's the pics, I hope I did it right:

https://postimg.cc/PpDx6pj2

I typed run : diskmgmt.msc

https://postimg.cc/87Cz2nGF

https://postimg.cc/YjkGXRvF

Robert

On 10/28/2023 8:05 AM, Robert in CA wrote:
> I have the set of instructions for cloning
> when you initially gave them to me.
>
> I accidentally clicked on the Syslinux
> download on the 8500 but deleted it
> afterwards.
>
> I don't understand, we never went through
> all of this with the other 6TB hd as I remember.
> Maybe we didn't make it boot-able? They weren't
> meant to be after all they are external drives.
>
> Let me ask a question. As it is now, once I
> get the case for it could I create a folder on
> the 6TB hd for mrimgs without a OS? If
> so, I think that's what I did with the other 6TB
> because that's actually all I see on my other 6TB
> hd. Just a folder that says 8500 mrimgs, nothing
> else.
>
> Here's the pics, I hope I did it right:
>
> https://postimg.cc/PpDx6pj2
>
> I typed run : diskmgmt.msc
>
> https://postimg.cc/87Cz2nGF
>
> https://postimg.cc/YjkGXRvF
>
> Robert
>

The string to be entered in the Run box is just

diskmgmt.msc

That should do it.

*******

Your first post is interesting. That looks like the
regular OS boot drive. Where you've made C: take up
all the space. You can certainly do that.

For the backup drives, I think we made the C: in that
case, a lot smaller. Macrium has a "resize" thing so
you can reduce the size of a partition while working
on it.

Your OS drive is like this:

+-----+--------------+--------------------------------------------+
| MBR | 4GB recovery | Huge C: drive |
+-----+--------------+--------------------------------------------|

Whereas for the backup drives which double as emergency OSes, they
were supposed to look like this. Sometimes, there are advantages
to separating the OS (that might not get used very much), from
the partition with the backups in it. Then, if you ever need to
"overwrite" the Small C: with a clean OS image, you can do it.

+-----+--------------+----------+---------------------------------+
| MBR | 4GB recovery | Small C: | Huge Data D: for backups |
+-----+--------------+----------+---------------------------------+

*******

And absolutely, if you want to make the 6TB into a single Data partition
6TB long, you can do that. Windows 7 supports GPT disks with 6TB partitions,
no problem, as a place for the output from backup software.

Paul

Here's dickmgmt.msc

https://postimg.cc/v4gK3BtS

https://postimg.cc/DmxYhsCM

Can we leave the 6TB hd un-bootable and just a stand alone hd for
mrimgs and nothing else? I already have two backup 2TB hd's, plus
the 2TB hd with mrimgs being retired and I have the old WD hd and
two other spare 2TB hd's with Win 10 on them. All bootable

I prefer we use the new 6TB hd as a dedicated external hd for 780
mrimgs only. I checked and there's nothing else on the 6TB hd for the 8500
except the mrimgs folder. Is it possible to do the same for the new 6TB
hd for the 780 with just a folder for Mrimgs and no OS?

https://postimg.cc/HVwhcK3V

https://postimg.cc/5Qxnw9sy

https://postimg.cc/YvcLVDwf

https://postimg.cc/4mpxKJrV

Thanks,
Robert

I have the case, so am going to try to put the hd inside it.

Robert

I have the 6TB hd in the case but haven't tested it as yet.

Robert

I tested the 6TB hd on the 780 I opened Macrium
but I couldn't see how I could create a folder for
mrimgs.

It didn't seem to see the 6TB hd to give me access
to the drive but it recognized it. When I did
diskmgmt.msc it showed up unallocated. I then
right clicked it for properties because I thought
you may want to see it.

So how do I created a folder for mrimgs?

https://postimg.cc/ZBQ9RRBp

https://postimg.cc/XBwVb7wV

https://postimg.cc/Pvkj2s00

https://postimg.cc/qzwTXFwZ

https://postimg.cc/QHfMxC2t

https://postimg.cc/V5RfD5LR

https://postimg.cc/Q9DDqZ2w

https://postimg.cc/21BfR5mg

https://postimg.cc/m1r0dL8X

Robert

On 10/28/2023 8:48 AM, Paul wrote:

>
> And absolutely, if you want to make the 6TB into a single Data partition
> 6TB long, you can do that. Windows 7 supports GPT disks with 6TB partitions,
> no problem, as a place for the output from backup software.

I tried to get the syslinux thing to work, but it's a no-go so far.

It is reading "something" and it finds an error, but it
won't give details on the error, so I have nothing to go on.

Just use the thing as a 6TB backup partition. When you receive
the drive, it may already have been initialized GPT (since that
exposes the whole 6TB, whereas an MBR partition only
exposes 2.2TB).

Paul

I have the 6TB hd and case and I've put the drive in the case.

I'm not following you. Are you saying to proceed and clone
the 6TB hd and edit the partition as in your instructions?

https://postimg.cc/67v7mXT0

Robert

Here are your instructions for editing the
partition during cloning.

https://postimg.cc/qhDfm1Ds

https://postimg.cc/CBQtCzdJ

https://postimg.cc/Bj0zCWQW

https://postimg.cc/6761DdvY

https://postimg.cc/zbV2f8ph

Should I proceed?
Robert

I haven't done anything as yet other than put the
6TB hd in the case.

Robert

I tried to clone the 6TB hd but it couldn't see it
or I did something wrong? Is Boot X the 6TB hd?
I'm just guessing at this point.

https://postimg.cc/6TWtSXxC

https://postimg.cc/wt5YfWWW

https://postimg.cc/d7Yzy2qG

https://postimg.cc/q6zYTQLH

https://postimg.cc/QFLz2QKv

Please advise,
Robert

I just realized it can't be BootX so where is the 6TB hd?
Why doesn't it see it even if un-allocated.

Thoughts/suggestions,
Robert

I tried again and did diskmgmt.msc on the 780
to verify that the 780 could see the un-allocated
partition before I attempted to clone it.

https://postimg.cc/7CYScH0G

However, it did the same as before and did not see
it. How can I clone it if it doesn't see it? How did we
set up the other 6TB hd? I must be doing something
wrong.

https://postimg.cc/njMFN53G

https://postimg.cc/PNgXFSY1

https://postimg.cc/jLYThLYX

Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert

On 10/30/2023 4:05 PM, Robert in CA wrote:
>
> I tried again and did diskmgmt.msc on the 780
> to verify that the 780 could see the un-allocated
> partition before I attempted to clone it.
>
> https://postimg.cc/7CYScH0G
>
> However, it did the same as before and did not see
> it. How can I clone it if it doesn't see it? How did we
> set up the other 6TB hd? I must be doing something
> wrong.
>
> https://postimg.cc/njMFN53G
>
> https://postimg.cc/PNgXFSY1
>
> https://postimg.cc/jLYThLYX
>
> Thoughts/suggestions?
>
> Robert
>

OK, the first picture at the top, is GOOD. [ https://postimg.cc/7CYScH0G ]

In the picture, I see an OS that is GPT-aware and it recognizes the disk
as a 6TB drive.

In Disk Management, while the regular OS is running, you can click the 6TB area,
and use New Simple Volume. I don't see a reason to be cloning at the moment,
at least for usage on the Optiplex 780, since the Optiplex 780 won't boot
a GPT disk (even when using a Syslinux boot thingy). That's what I tested.

If the disk was not initialized, you would select the left-most box
with the Disk Number, and initialize as GPT. Then, a New Simple Volume
on the right-hand chunk, should allow you to allocate the entire 6TB
as s single NTFS partition.

Doing Properties on the left-most box on a Disk Management row, and
looking in Volumes tab, the word "GPT" should be there if the disk is
now initialized properly. The 6TB disk row, should be a GPT one.

It is OK for the original Windows 7 boot drive, to be a 2TB MBR or MSDOS
hard drive, as MSDOS partitioning is good up to 2.2TB and the disk is
just 2.0TB in size.

This is just for interest sake. When the newer GPT scheme is used, there
is the traditional partition table on the left. The MBR is a mere 512 bytes
and it has room for 4 partitions (like Primary ones). In the same way an
Apple computer does it, when GPT initialize is done, the MBR is marked
in a way, to advise older OSes to not mess with anything. The 0xEE partition
is defined as 2.2TB, leaving no room for an older OS (WinXP) to make any more
partitions. This helps keep the other three entries as 0x00. The actual functioning
partitions are in the GPT table. The secondary table at the end of the disk,
is a copy of the primary table on the left, in case the left one is corrupted.
These have very little impact on your usage of the disk, as the
storage cluster section is still 6TB. In the storage cluster section
is where you will be defining your New Simple Volume 6TB NTFS. The GPT
partition table is ~64KB and has room for 128 partition definitions.

+---------------------+-------------------------+----------------------------+--------------------------------+
| | | | |
MBR 4 entry table GPT Partition Table <=== storage clusters ===> Secondary GPT Partition Table
0xEE #1 Microsoft Basic Data + + #1 Microsoft Basic Data
0x00
0x00
0x00

*******

We're doing good so far. Since the normal OS sees the disk and
we are initializing it and we are defining a 6TB NTFS volume on it.

The problem is, your Macrium Rescue CD was made with a particular version
of WinPE. With a missing 6TB USB disk drive, the USB driver is likely
missing. The Optiplex 780 does not have USB3 ports - it is hard to explain
why the driver is missing on an Optiplex 780 (anything plugged into
a USB2 port, should be visible). If you are doing
this experiment on the XPS 8500, it has a USB3 port, and a really
old Macrium CD will not have the USB3 driver. The disk being invisible
using Macrium CD on the 8500 is easier to explain.

That might take WinPE 5 or WinPE 10 when making a new CD with
the recent Macrium versions. WinPE 10 has been around since about
2015 or 2016 or so.

Summary:

Optiplex 780 - hard to explain the disk not being visible.
- if it was visible, the size info could be wrong.

XPS 8500 - with old enough Macrium Rescue CD, the drive might be missing entirely.
This can happen if the USB3 driver is not available to the CD OS.

The WinPE version, can have a USB3 driver in it. While
Macrium offers to bind in a USB3 driver separately, usually
that's an advanced topic (finding the right driver format,
finding a driver, maybe they offer a driver in the kit, etc).

With a more modern WinPE choice, the driver is already there.
(Because it is part of the integrated OS booting kit.)

I tested with a WinPE 3.1 version and the 6TB USB disk was missing.
(I have a few 6TB drives for testing.)

While it is possible an enclosure might not be 6TB compatible,
we have the nice result in your GOOD picture, proving the USB enclosure
works. That's a relief.

Try building some new media.

If the Optiplex had a USB3 plugin card added to the slots,
then that would benefit from the modern WinPE versions as well.

Paul

Success !

https://postimg.cc/8jNVwFfN

https://postimg.cc/SXMy3BSh

https://postimg.cc/V51YZZ2x

https://postimg.cc/0by9PMkZ

https://postimg.cc/w7rYzwbT

https://postimg.cc/CZj3jSMz

https://postimg.cc/t7rLdrbt

https://postimg.cc/zL1MD6w5

https://postimg.cc/r0fYJpBF

https://postimg.cc/PPpFWT2T

https://postimg.cc/fVQ5YXVf

When you say build new media do you mean Rescue CD's
for the 8500 and 780?

Many Thanks,
Robert

It's true, on the 8500 it doesn't see the 3.0(blue)USB port when running
macrium so I have to wait till the screen goes black before I pull the
plug. I haven't tested it without the macrium running to see if I can safely
remove the plug.

The 780 see's the 2.0 connection(black) and lets me disconnect it safely
when not running macrium but it's the same way, it doesn't see the ports
during macrium but they are obviously working. They just don't let me
disconnect safely.

Robert

I'll try dismounting the external hd's by safely removing them
when I do the mrimgs tonight and let you know how it goes.

Robert

I checked and I made spare Rescue Cd's for the
8500 in 2022 and spare Rescue CD's for the 780
in 2023. Should I be using these or make new ones?

Robert

I checked to see if macrium detected the external 6TB hd
before starting the mrimg and to identify the drive letter.

https://postimg.cc/DJcysrMH

The mrimg completed successfully

https://postimg.cc/kRB34W3x

https://postimg.cc/JymfXfC7

https://postimg.cc/9DHK36MP

Then I checked to see if I could safely disconnect
by clicking the lower right icon

https://postimg.cc/1g9dXDDf

I also checked the 8500 after it's mrimg to see if I could
safely disconnect by clicking the lower right icon.

https://postimg.cc/KRPQTRGL

I used the 2023 Rescue CD with the 780 and the 2022
Rescue CD with the 8500.

Robert

What did you mean by building new media?

I thought maybe we could upgrade the 780 from 2.0 USB ports (black)
to 3.0 USB ports (Blue) but it doesn't seem like I would be able
because on the front with the USB ports it also has plug- ins for mic and
headphones although I don't use either. Similar to this configuration:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Restored-Dell-780-Desktop-PC-with-Intel-Core-2-Duo-Processor-4GB-Memory-1TB-Hard-Drive-and-Windows-10-Pro-Monitor-Not-Included-Refurbished/22394341?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=5787&adid=2222222222722394341_5787_155075802957_20717494264&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=678789797442&wl4=pla-2234362938896&wl5=1014127&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=113945645&wl11=online&wl12=22394341_5787&veh=sem&gclid=CjwKCAjw7oeqBhBwEiwALyHLM5UDHynxvin3w7Lej-cSne9YcqQm_08Ajn_Z-UHatjfbr_rAYMGCZhoC840QAvD_BwE

Here's a shot inside the 780

https://postimg.cc/njvyX9xC

Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert

Would it be possible to add RAMM to the 780?
Are the black slots at the top for RAMM ?

https://postimg.cc/gXBCMmbF

If so how much would they cost and what kind?
I would have to wait till the end of the month to do
this.

What do you think?
Robert

We've moved the bookmarks and 'My Documents'
to the 780 and installed Word and Excel, and created
a simple volume of the 6TB external HD so it's now
functional, all with your good help.

I'm not forgetting your elegant solution for the start
switch for the 8500 with no soldering! I hid the switch
behind a faux optical drive panel so it keeps it clean and
out of sight. Now it starts all the time.

Before we may get cut off, I want to say thank you for
all you've done. You've helped me allot over the years
and built my entire backup system and helped me select
the 780.

What do you think about upgrading the 780 RAMM and
USB ports from 2:0 to 3.0? Is it possible?

What do you recommend I do at this point?

Many Thanks for all your good help,
Robert

On 10/22/2023 9:07 AM, Robert in CA wrote:
> I tried the mrimg again but this time it didn't give me the browse option:
>
> https://postimg.cc/47P5YH6k
>
> however I managed to navigate to the mrimgs and change the drive letter to K:
> but it didn't give me the screen to enable access to restricted folders yet I
> was able to access them and copy/pasted 'My Documents' from the K drive
> to the C: drive.
>
> You know how it opens a dialog box and shows the files being transferred
> from one folder to the next? It did that at first but now the 'files' are frozen
> between folders and there's no apparent transfer happening. Also when the
> transfer completes it should close or tell me something, correct? I'm afraid
> to do anything since I've gotten this far with it but it seems like it's not responding.
> It just says, File operation in progress, please wait but there's no movement.
> It's been like this for about an hour now. What should I do?
>
> Thoughts, suggestions?
> Robert

You have "Backup" and "Restore" buttons, to put the program
in a basic mode of operation. I suspect in the picture, the
"Backup" is selected. If "Restore" was selected, perhaps it would
be easier to find a "Browse" on there somewhere.

I agree the program can be confusing. And I've fallen for
all the same traps. For example, for several years, I didn't
know there was an option to back up an entire computer in
one go of it. Like, stuff all the partitions of three hard
drives, into one MRIMG.

Paul