Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
>
>| Sounds like you're not aware that, when you start a text thread on
>| your phone, you can direct it to one of your contacts, to any phone
>| number, or to any email address.
>
> No, I didn't know that. Thanks. So in theory one
> of my texting friends could already be texting my
> email without me even knowing it. I'll have to tell
> the people who keep complaining that I don't have
> texting. Though I suppose the reason that many
> of them prefer texting is because they expect me
> to read it NOW.

With me, texters would be disappointed if they think I'm interrupting
whatever I am currently involved to read something that may not be
important, or worse is spam crap or a nuisance message. They get to
request my attention. They don't get to command it. That's why they
are called notifications, not Taser zaps. I'm not a Pavlov dog.

With Gmail, my client uses Google's Mail API instead of polling
intervals using POP or IMAP. With Hotmail, I use ActiveSync. For IMAP
accounts, my client and service support IMAP PUSH. I get e-mails as
fast as I get texts, so no delay in getting an e-mail telling me of a
text. In fact, I have Google Voice send me a copy of a text via e-mail.
While that generates doubled notifications (e-mail and text app), it
works to notify me of texts on computers that have no cellular access,
like a desktop PC.

Texting is not guaranteed for immediate attention. Neither is e-mail.
If immediate interaction is required, make a phone call, or use a chat
client (e.g., WhatsApp). But neither will override an overwhelming
immediate need for a bathroom break, a puking cat, or smoke alarm.

On 2023-10-10 14:58, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 07:59:16 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
>>> Why are you lying about the need to log into apple servers to do anything?
>>
>> He's not and you're apparently to ignorant and/or stupid to figure that out.
>
> It's not a question of whether you lied or not because you definitely lied.
>
> Android does not need you to create any account to send messages using the
> default messaging app that comes with every android phone. iOS does.

Not at all.

If I'm on my iPhone, logged out of Apple, SMS/MMS works fine because:
phone. No log in at all.

And so do all other messaging apps. Because: phone and/or WiFi. And I
have to be logged into those too for them to work.

It's only Apple's messaging system that requires I log in. Of course.

> Android does not need you to create any account to find and install apps
> taken directly off the official app store. iOS does.

Yes. This is the Apple way. Don't like it? Fine. Move along.

>
> The iphone is a dumb terminal connected to the apple mainframe servers.

Far from it.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:10:30 -0700, Alan wrote:

>> You lied. Why did you lie when everyone knows how it works?
>
> Why won't you address my point?

You are trying to bring up unrelated apps like whatsapp and youtube, which,
of course, they need an account. You did that because you lied about the
default messenger which doesn't need an account on the google server for
android but which needs the account on the apple server for ios to work.

>> The android default messenger works without having to create any account on
>> any google servers. The ios default messenger requires that apple account.
>
> "the android default messenger" is what: SMS?

It's both sms & mms and it does not need any account on the google server.

> iOS can send and receive messages without an Apple account.
>
> 'You can use iMessage even with iCloud completely disabled, or even if
> you’ve never setup an iCloud account at all. If you’re on an iPhone, you
> don’t even need to sign in with an Apple ID if you only want to send and
> receive iMessages using your cellular phone number; an Apple account is
> only required to associate email addresses with iMessage.'
>
> <https://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/using-imessage-without-icloud>

The icloud is different than requiring an apple id just to download and
install apps. Besides that was for ios 5 and you're on ios 17 now.

Apple removed that long ago, around ios 9 or 10.

Now you can't send or receive anything in apple's ios messages without
creating an apple account on the apple servers. With android you can.

>> It's even worse with your unique apple id required just to run free apps.
>
> No. It is not.

Why do you think apple inserts a unique id into every app you install?
Google doesn't do that for Android apps. Only apple does that.

>> Android does not put a google id into your free apps. Apple puts your
>> unique apple id into your free apps. Are you going to lie about that too?
>
> What does it matter if an ID is put into a free app?

Are you playing dumb? Or are you really so dumb as not know why it matters?
> And I haven't lied about anything.

You're right. You lied about ios messages not needing the apple account.
And you lied about the app store not needing the apple account.

But you were not lying when you were playing dumb by claiming that you
don't know why apple inserting your unique apple id into every app you
download (even free apps) matters.

>> The iphone is a dumb terminal connected to the apple mainframe servers.
>
> The only dumb thing in this thread is you, my friend.

You lied about the app store apple id.
You lied about the messages apple id.
You say you don't know why it matters that apple inserts your id into apps.

I confront you on those lies. And then you say it's me who is dumb?
I'm only asking you why you feel it's necessary for you to lie about it?

Just admit ios is a dumb terminal that needs to log into apple servers.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:58:25 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

> Nobody's lying.

They said the default messenger doesn't need an apple account
That's a lie.

They said the apple app store doesn't need an apple account.
That's a lie.

They said apple doesn't insert a unique number tied only to your appleid
into every app you download and install on your iphone or on your ipad.
That's a lie.
> My iPad works fine w/o being logged in.

Try to send a typical message to someone without logging into it.
Try to download and install a typical app without logging into it.
Try to copy your ipa to your neighbor's ios device to see if it works.

All of a sudden, when you don't log into ios, it stops working fine.
Why can't you admit that?

> But for those things that need
> the Apple account, of course one has to be logged in.
>
> Just like for my Proton Mail to send/receive I have to be logged into
> that account.

That's a red herring which shows that you too are lying.
Of course you need an account to log into something like email.

But you claiming a bank needs an account is your way of lying because what
we've been discussing here is the basic default messaging app & app store.

Why do you feel that you have to lie about needing that apple id account?

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:56:21 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

>> Why can't the ipad work without being forced to log into an Apple account?
>
> My iPad works fine not logged in.

You are being fooled by the automatic log in process.
Log out. Then try it. You'll find out that nothing works anymore.

Try it. Almost everything you like about ios will stop working.

> Of course that means I don't have
> Apple Messages, synchronization with my Notes, Reminders, etc. on my
> other devices.

Yes. You know this. That is good.
The apple device is like a dumb terminal when you log out of it.

It has to be logged into the apple "mainframe" server to do anything.

> Everything else is fine.

After logging out, try to send something as simple as a text message.
Try to download and install an ipa from the apple app store.

Nothing will work unless you're logged in.
You don't notice it only because you're always logged in.

Try it after you log out.
Write back what happens.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:03:25 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

> If I'm on my iPhone, logged out of Apple, SMS/MMS works fine because:
> phone. No log in at all.

That's exactly how it works on android but it doesn't work that way on ios.
Try it.

Log out of your apple id account.
Then try to send a text message using your default apple messenger.

Write back what happens.

> And so do all other messaging apps.
> Because: phone and/or WiFi. And I
> have to be logged into those too for them to work.

That's a different subject - which means you know you're lying.

Of course your banking app or your linked-in account needs a login.
Of course whatsapp or telegram or signal or facebook need an account.

On any platform.

But we're talking about two of the most basic things a phone does.
Sending text messages and installing apps from the company app store.

Android sends messages without needing to create a google account.
The iphone can't.

Android installs from the company app store without creating an account.
The iphone can't.

Don't equate those basic tasks with setting up an email account because on
all platforms (windows, linux & macos too!) email will need an account.

> It's only Apple's messaging system that requires I log in. Of course.

At least you agree that apple's messaging system requires an account.
Android's messaging does not.

Why did the others lie about that?

>> Android does not need you to create any account to find and install apps
>> taken directly off the official app store. iOS does.
>
> Yes. This is the Apple way. Don't like it? Fine. Move along.

It's not a question of liking that ios requires a login to work.

It's a question of what is the case.
And that the others lied about it.

Apple's messaging system requires you log in.
Android's messaging system does not.

Why did they feel they needed to lie about what we agree is the case?

>> The iphone is a dumb terminal connected to the apple mainframe servers.
>
> Far from it.

It's a dumb terminal in that without logging into the apple servers, it
can't do even the simple things like messaging and installing apps.

Certainly ios can't do the complicated things you like about it either
without logging into the apple account (in that way it's a dumb terminal).

On 2023-10-10 18:28, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:58:25 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> Nobody's lying.
>
> They said the default messenger doesn't need an apple account
> That's a lie.

It doesn't - therefore it is not a lie. It does require, of course, a
phone connection.
>
> They said the apple app store doesn't need an apple account.
> That's a lie.

I didn't say that. I don't care. And if you do, then stop griping
about it and move along.

>
> They said apple doesn't insert a unique number tied only to your appleid
> into every app you download and install on your iphone or on your ipad.
> That's a lie.

I wouldn't know. And I do not care.

>
>> My iPad works fine w/o being logged in.
>
> Try to send a typical message to someone without logging into it.
> Try to download and install a typical app without logging into it.
> Try to copy your ipa to your neighbor's ios device to see if it works.

Since my iPad does not have a phone capability, that's understandable.
But, I can log into all sorts of messaging apps and use them via WiFi.
> All of a sudden, when you don't log into ios, it stops working fine.
> Why can't you admit that?

It works fine. Mail. Maps. Dozens and dozens of apps, all work fine.
Of course I lose what I value most with Apple - the seamless integration
between my various Apple devices.
>
>> But for those things that need
>> the Apple account, of course one has to be logged in.
>>
>> Just like for my Proton Mail to send/receive I have to be logged into
>> that account.
>
> That's a red herring which shows that you too are lying.
> Of course you need an account to log into something like email.

No different than Android. Right.

>
> But you claiming a bank needs an account is your way of lying because what
> we've been discussing here is the basic default messaging app & app store.

Which - again - work fine. On the phone I don't need to be logged into
the Apple account to send SMS/MMS or use other apps (themselves need log
in).

>
> Why do you feel that you have to lie about needing that apple id account?

Not lying. Laid it out above (and elsewhere) clear enough for most
people with a room temperature (Fahrenheit) IQ can understand it. If
you're struggling, I suggest you stop letting Apple have rent in your
head and move on.

EOD for me!

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-10-10 18:36, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:56:21 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> Why can't the ipad work without being forced to log into an Apple account?
>>
>> My iPad works fine not logged in.
>
> You are being fooled by the automatic log in process.
> Log out. Then try it. You'll find out that nothing works anymore.
>
> Try it. Almost everything you like about ios will stop working.

1- am currently logged out on my iPad mini.
2- doing all the things I said I can do.

Other reply also applies, so I'll snip the rest of your nonsense away.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-10-10 15:17, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:10:30 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
>>> You lied. Why did you lie when everyone knows how it works?
>>
>> Why won't you address my point?
>
> You are trying to bring up unrelated apps like whatsapp and youtube, which,
> of course, they need an account. You did that because you lied about the
> default messenger which doesn't need an account on the google server for
> android but which needs the account on the apple server for ios to work.
>
>>> The android default messenger works without having to create any account on
>>> any google servers. The ios default messenger requires that apple account.
>>
>> "the android default messenger" is what: SMS?
>
> It's both sms & mms and it does not need any account on the google server.

Oh, so it DOES need an account of some kind...

....just not one on a google server.

That's not what you said before.

>
>> iOS can send and receive messages without an Apple account.
>>
>> 'You can use iMessage even with iCloud completely disabled, or even if
>> you’ve never setup an iCloud account at all. If you’re on an iPhone, you
>> don’t even need to sign in with an Apple ID if you only want to send and
>> receive iMessages using your cellular phone number; an Apple account is
>> only required to associate email addresses with iMessage.'
>>
>> <https://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/using-imessage-without-icloud>
>
> The icloud is different than requiring an apple id just to download and
> install apps. Besides that was for ios 5 and you're on ios 17 now.
>
> Apple removed that long ago, around ios 9 or 10.

iOS 5 was released in October of 2011...

....12 YEARS ago...

....and that article:

'Using iMessage without iCloud
By Jesse Hollington
May 16, 2021 4:09 pm UTC'

So, once again, you're full of shit.

>
> Now you can't send or receive anything in apple's ios messages without
> creating an apple account on the apple servers. With android you can.

You can't receive APPLE's iMessages, no.

But you CAN received SMS and MMS messages based off your phone number.

So it's exactly the same situation as Android.

>
>>> It's even worse with your unique apple id required just to run free apps.
>>
>> No. It is not.
>
> Why do you think apple inserts a unique id into every app you install?
> Google doesn't do that for Android apps. Only apple does that.

What does it matter?

>
>>> Android does not put a google id into your free apps. Apple puts your
>>> unique apple id into your free apps. Are you going to lie about that too?
>>
>> What does it matter if an ID is put into a free app?
>
> Are you playing dumb? Or are you really so dumb as not know why it matters?

I notice you can't explain.

>
>> And I haven't lied about anything.
>
> You're right. You lied about ios messages not needing the apple account.

Nope. I specifically pointed to SMS and MMS...

....both of which don't require an Apple account.

> And you lied about the app store not needing the apple account.

I never claimed that. What I said and showed was that you need an
account to access the Google Play store.

Something you keep refusing to acknowledge is true.

>
> But you were not lying when you were playing dumb by claiming that you
> don't know why apple inserting your unique apple id into every app you
> download (even free apps) matters.
>
>>> The iphone is a dumb terminal connected to the apple mainframe servers.
>>
>> The only dumb thing in this thread is you, my friend.
>
> You lied about the app store apple id.

False

> You lied about the messages apple id.

False.

> You say you don't know why it matters that apple inserts your id into apps.

False. What I asked you was why YOU think it matters.
>
> I confront you on those lies. And then you say it's me who is dumb?

Because I haven't lied.

You have, however.

> I'm only asking you why you feel it's necessary for you to lie about it?
>
> Just admit ios is a dumb terminal that needs to log into apple servers.

It's not. That's simply a lie.

On 2023-10-10 15:28, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:58:25 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> Nobody's lying.
>
> They said the default messenger doesn't need an apple account
> That's a lie.

No. We said that the very same services that don't need a Google
account—SMS & MMS—also don't need an Apple account.

And that's just a face.

>
> They said the apple app store doesn't need an apple account.
> That's a lie.

No. I said that the Google Play store needs an account as well.

And that's a fact.

>
> They said apple doesn't insert a unique number tied only to your appleid
> into every app you download and install on your iphone or on your ipad.
> That's a lie.

Nope. Literally no one said that.

>
>> My iPad works fine w/o being logged in.
>
> Try to send a typical message to someone without logging into it.

SMS or MMS? Works fine!

> Try to download and install a typical app without logging into it.

"Straw man" ever heard the term? You really must have.

> Try to copy your ipa to your neighbor's ios device to see if it works.

Straw man.

>
> All of a sudden, when you don't log into ios, it stops working fine.
> Why can't you admit that?

Because it's not true.

>
>> But for those things that need
>> the Apple account, of course one has to be logged in.
>>
>> Just like for my Proton Mail to send/receive I have to be logged into
>> that account.
>
> That's a red herring which shows that you too are lying.
> Of course you need an account to log into something like email.
>
> But you claiming a bank needs an account is your way of lying because what
> we've been discussing here is the basic default messaging app & app store.

And you've been either wrong or presenting straw men.

>
> Why do you feel that you have to lie about needing that apple id account?

Why must you lie?

"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote

| Texting is not guaranteed for immediate attention. Neither is e-mail.
| If immediate interaction is required, make a phone call, or use a chat
| client (e.g., WhatsApp).

I've noticed that things have gradually changed. At one
time, people always answered cellphoes because it was
almost always guaranteed to be relevant. People got mad
at me because I wasn't on call.

Then people switched to text because no one aswered
their cellphones. Text was the way to get through quick.
People got mad at me because I didn't text. Now I've noticed
that texting is so ubiquitous, people are not answering texts,
either.

So I guess we're back to leaving messages, except that no
one listens to messages anymore. I heard recently that the
new edicate says you should text to get permission to call
now. Don't just "show up uninvited" on the other end of
the line!

I mostly use email. Customers, friends, family... Occasionally
with family I talk for an hour or more on the phone. But email
allows me to keep in touch, write long emails if necessary, and
I don't need to coordinate timing. I just check email when I'm
in the mood, a few times a day. I'm not a drug dealer or a
country doctor. No one needs to reach me NOW.

On 2023-10-10 15:17, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:10:30 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
>>> You lied. Why did you lie when everyone knows how it works?
>>
>> Why won't you address my point?
>
> You are trying to bring up unrelated apps like whatsapp and youtube,
> which,

I didn't mention either of those but messaging apps OBVIOUSLY need
something to tell them where a message is supposed to go.

> of course, they need an account. You did that because you lied about
> the default messenger which doesn't need an account on the google
> server for android but which needs the account on the apple server
> for ios to work.

I'm sorry, but that's simply false.

To send APPLE's "iMessages" you need an AppleID just as you need an ID
for any other messaging app...

....except for SMS/MMS messaging, which is based on the phone number and
works perfectly on an iPhone without any AppleID at all.

>
>>> The android default messenger works without having to create any
>>> account on any google servers. The ios default messenger requires
>>> that apple account.
>>
>> "the android default messenger" is what: SMS?
>
> It's both sms & mms and it does not need any account on the google
> server.

So just the same as Messages on an iPhone, then.

>
>> iOS can send and receive messages without an Apple account.
>>
>> 'You can use iMessage even with iCloud completely disabled, or even
>> if you’ve never setup an iCloud account at all. If you’re on an
>> iPhone, you don’t even need to sign in with an Apple ID if you only
>> want to send and receive iMessages using your cellular phone
>> number; an Apple account is only required to associate email
>> addresses with iMessage.'
>>
>> <https://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/using-imessage-without-icloud>
>
>>
> The icloud is different than requiring an apple id just to download
> and install apps. Besides that was for ios 5 and you're on ios 17
> now.

'If you’re on an iPhone, you don’t even need to sign in with an Apple ID
if you only want to send and receive iMessages using your cellular phone
number'

>
> Apple removed that long ago, around ios 9 or 10.

So an article explicitly saying you can do it written in 2021 is wrong?

>
> Now you can't send or receive anything in apple's ios messages
> without creating an apple account on the apple servers. With android
> you can.

"Apple's iOS messages" or SMS/MMS messages?

>
>>> It's even worse with your unique apple id required just to run
>>> free apps.
>>
>> No. It is not.
>
> Why do you think apple inserts a unique id into every app you
> install? Google doesn't do that for Android apps. Only apple does
> that.

OK. So what?

>
>>> Android does not put a google id into your free apps. Apple puts
>>> your unique apple id into your free apps. Are you going to lie
>>> about that too?
>>
>> What does it matter if an ID is put into a free app?
>
> Are you playing dumb? Or are you really so dumb as not know why it
> matters?

I'm asking you to tell me what you "think"...

....and you keep ducking.

>
>> And I haven't lied about anything.
>
> You're right. You lied about ios messages not needing the apple
> account.

Wrong. You don't need an Apple account to send SMS/MMS messages.

> And you lied about the app store not needing the apple
> account.

Wrong, because I never once said that.

>
> But you were not lying when you were playing dumb by claiming that
> you don't know why apple inserting your unique apple id into every
> app you download (even free apps) matters.

I know you won't tell me why YOU think it matters.

>
>>> The iphone is a dumb terminal connected to the apple mainframe
>>> servers.
>>
>> The only dumb thing in this thread is you, my friend.
>
> You lied about the app store apple id. You lied about the messages
> apple id. You say you don't know why it matters that apple inserts
> your id into apps.

<Yawn>

>
> I confront you on those lies. And then you say it's me who is dumb?
> I'm only asking you why you feel it's necessary for you to lie about
> it?
>
> Just admit ios is a dumb terminal that needs to log into apple
> servers.

It's not. As Alan Browne demonstrated.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:50:49 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

>> They said the default messenger doesn't need an apple account
>> That's a lie.
>
> It doesn't - therefore it is not a lie. It does require, of course, a
> phone connection.

It is a lie.
The default apple ios messenger doesn't work without the apple id.
The default android messenger does work without a google id.

>>
>> They said the apple app store doesn't need an apple account.
>> That's a lie.
>
> I didn't say that. I don't care. And if you do, then stop griping
> about it and move along.

Why do you call it "griping" when I'm simply explaining how it works?

It's not a gripe that the apple app store requires you to create an account
while the google app store doesn't require you to create that account.

Do you call it "griping" because you can no longer lie about it?

>> They said apple doesn't insert a unique number tied only to your appleid
>> into every app you download and install on your iphone or on your ipad.
>> That's a lie.
>
> I wouldn't know. And I do not care.

You might not care that apple inserts a unique identifier unique to your
apple id account with every app you download - but apple cares. A lot!

>> All of a sudden, when you don't log into ios, it stops working fine.
>> Why can't you admit that?
>
> It works fine. Mail. Maps. Dozens and dozens of apps, all work fine.
> Of course I lose what I value most with Apple - the seamless integration
> between my various Apple devices.

Fundamentally that iphone is a dumb terminal because nothing works if you
don't connect it to the apple "mainframe" servers every day of its life.

All that "good stuff" you value requires you to be connected for sure.

>> That's a red herring which shows that you too are lying.
>> Of course you need an account to log into something like email.
>
> No different than Android. Right.

Maybe you missed the main point that android works fine without creating an
account to use it while the iphone doesn't work at all if you don't.

I don't know why you and the others feel the need to lie about it.
Are you embarrassed by it perhaps?

>> But you claiming a bank needs an account is your way of lying because what
>> we've been discussing here is the basic default messaging app & app store.
>
> Which - again - work fine. On the phone I don't need to be logged into
> the Apple account to send SMS/MMS or use other apps (themselves need log
> in).

This is correct. You can't do anything with the default message app if you
don't log into the apple servers while android messaging doesn't do that.

Why did the others lie about that?

>> Why do you feel that you have to lie about needing that apple id account?
>
> Not lying. Laid it out above (and elsewhere) clear enough for most
> people with a room temperature (Fahrenheit) IQ can understand it. If
> you're struggling, I suggest you stop letting Apple have rent in your
> head and move on.

What is the case is that android doesn't need to create an account on the
company servers to do what the iphone requires a perpetual login to do.

It's not a gripe. It is what it is. You seem to be embarrassed by that.

No need to lie about it if you are embarrassed by it being what it is.

On 2023-10-10 20:14, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:50:49 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> They said the default messenger doesn't need an apple account
>>> That's a lie.
>>
>> It doesn't - therefore it is not a lie. It does require, of course, a
>> phone connection.
>
> It is a lie.

It's not a lie.

> The default apple ios messenger doesn't work without the apple id.

It doesn't work of Apple's "iMessage" system.

It does work for SMS/MMS messages.

> The default android messenger does work without a google id.

For exactly the same kinds of messages that work with an AppleID on an
iPHone.

>
>>>
>>> They said the apple app store doesn't need an apple account.
>>> That's a lie.
>>
>> I didn't say that. I don't care. And if you do, then stop griping
>> about it and move along.
>
> Why do you call it "griping" when I'm simply explaining how it works?

Because you're explaining it incorrectly.

>
> It's not a gripe that the apple app store requires you to create an account
> while the google app store doesn't require you to create that account.

Sorry, but I've already shown you the screenshot that proves that is false.

Do you need to see it again?

>
> Do you call it "griping" because you can no longer lie about it?
>
>>> They said apple doesn't insert a unique number tied only to your appleid
>>> into every app you download and install on your iphone or on your ipad.
>>> That's a lie.
>>
>> I wouldn't know. And I do not care.
>
> You might not care that apple inserts a unique identifier unique to your
> apple id account with every app you download - but apple cares. A lot!

And yet you won't say why it matters.

Got it.

>
>>> All of a sudden, when you don't log into ios, it stops working fine.
>>> Why can't you admit that?
>>
>> It works fine. Mail. Maps. Dozens and dozens of apps, all work fine.
>> Of course I lose what I value most with Apple - the seamless integration
>> between my various Apple devices.
>
> Fundamentally that iphone is a dumb terminal because nothing works if you
> don't connect it to the apple "mainframe" servers every day of its life.

Sorry, but that's false.

>
> All that "good stuff" you value requires you to be connected for sure.

And my bet is we'll never see a reply to the message where Alan showed
you that's false.

>
>>> That's a red herring which shows that you too are lying.
>>> Of course you need an account to log into something like email.
>>
>> No different than Android. Right.
>
> Maybe you missed the main point that android works fine without creating an
> account to use it while the iphone doesn't work at all if you don't.

I'm sorry, but that remains false.

>
> I don't know why you and the others feel the need to lie about it.
> Are you embarrassed by it perhaps?
>
>>> But you claiming a bank needs an account is your way of lying because what
>>> we've been discussing here is the basic default messaging app & app store.
>>
>> Which - again - work fine. On the phone I don't need to be logged into
>> the Apple account to send SMS/MMS or use other apps (themselves need log
>> in).
>
> This is correct. You can't do anything with the default message app if you
> don't log into the apple servers while android messaging doesn't do that.

Nope. He sends SMS/MMS messages with Apple's default message app: Messages.

>
> Why did the others lie about that?

No one has lied about his but you.

Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
>> I wouldn't know. And I do not care.
>
> You might not care that apple inserts a unique identifier unique to your
> apple id account with every app you download - but apple cares. A lot!

The reason Apple ties every app installed to the person who installed it
is that Apple is logging every mouse click he does with every app he uses.

It's all tied to his AppleID which is why Apple wants him logging in.

Apple is probably selling his data to the developers and to advertisers.

On 11/10/2023, Alan wrote:

>> They said the apple app store doesn't need an apple account.
>> That's a lie.
>
> No. I said that the Google Play store needs an account as well.
>
> And that's a fact.

No it's not a fact. It's wrong. Either you're stupid. Or you're lying.

Assuming the best case, which is that you're just stupid, then you need to
learn something before you respond again with your stupidity.

You do NOT need to create a Google account to download & install apps off
the Google Play Store as there are FOSS apps which do all that for you.

One of those FOSS apps that searches for, downloads, and installs the apps
directly off the Google Play Store is Aurora (but many others exist).
https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraStore

Given are wrong because you are stupid, or you are wrong because you wish
to continue to lie about this, please let us know which when you respond.

Are you stupid?
Or are you a liar?

It's one or both.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:51:53 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

>> Try it. Almost everything you like about ios will stop working.
>
> 1- am currently logged out on my iPad mini.
> 2- doing all the things I said I can do.

You're saying you are installing apple app store apps without an account?

You're a liar.

On 2023-10-10 20:44, Mickey D wrote:
> On 11/10/2023, Alan wrote:
>
>>> They said the apple app store doesn't need an apple account.
>>> That's a lie.
>>
>> No. I said that the Google Play store needs an account as well.
>>
>> And that's a fact.
>
> No it's not a fact. It's wrong. Either you're stupid. Or you're lying.

I'm sorry... ...are you seriously telling me this screenshot is a FAKE:

<https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p4nAhzDqg5nBSyDAaMHS13cYeW8I-Cw3/view?usp=share_link>

That is a screenshot of me on the Google Play store attempting to
download a FREE book, and being asked to "Please sign in"

>
> Assuming the best case, which is that you're just stupid, then you need to
> learn something before you respond again with your stupidity.
>
> You do NOT need to create a Google account to download & install apps off
> the Google Play Store as there are FOSS apps which do all that for you.
>
> One of those FOSS apps that searches for, downloads, and installs the apps
> directly off the Google Play Store is Aurora (but many others exist).
> https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraStore

"Account login: You can login with either personal or an anonymous account"

So you still need an account.

Are you stupid, or a liar...

....or both?

On 2023-10-10 20:47, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:51:53 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> Try it. Almost everything you like about ios will stop working.
>>
>> 1- am currently logged out on my iPad mini.
>> 2- doing all the things I said I can do.
>
> You're saying you are installing apple app store apps without an account?
>
> You're a liar.

How is not being able to do that one thing the same as "almost everything"?

I'm betting you'll never answer that question.

On 2023-10-10 15:50, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:03:25 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> If I'm on my iPhone, logged out of Apple, SMS/MMS works fine because:
>> phone. No log in at all.
>
> That's exactly how it works on android but it doesn't work that way on ios.
> Try it.
>
> Log out of your apple id account.
> Then try to send a text message using your default apple messenger.
>
> Write back what happens.

He did.

You crawled away like a coward from answering his reply.

Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote
>
>| Texting is not guaranteed for immediate attention. Neither is e-mail.
>| If immediate interaction is required, make a phone call, or use a chat
>| client (e.g., WhatsApp).
>
> I've noticed that things have gradually changed. At one
> time, people always answered cellphoes because it was
> almost always guaranteed to be relevant. People got mad
> at me because I wasn't on call.

Long ago, cell phones were called mobile phones. They were extensions
of the landlines/POTS that we had back then. People were accustomed to
running through the house to answer a call. I wasn't, but it seemed
most everyone else was well trained.

I still remember when some folks thought carrying a pager was a status
symbol. They were more important because they had a pager, and were on
call. My opinion was you were at the beck-n-call of someone else. You
were a peon someone else could pull your strings.

> Then people switched to text because no one aswered
> their cellphones. Text was the way to get through quick.
> People got mad at me because I didn't text. Now I've noticed
> that texting is so ubiquitous, people are not answering texts,
> either.

As I recall, texts showed up to reduce costs to communicate versus
making calls. You used your quota more slowly by texting. That was
back when you had quotas (calls, data, texts). Nowadays most major
cellular carriers give unlimited quotas.

Alas, there are many folks that do poorly when making calls. They're
not prepared with what they want to talk about, they are very poor at
public speaking, they think in words instead of sentences. As evidenced
by many e-mails, the latest generation is also very poor at writing, and
their texts suck, too. Humans now have an attention span shorter than
goldfish.

> So I guess we're back to leaving messages, except that no
> one listens to messages anymore. I heard recently that the
> new edicate says you should text to get permission to call
> now. Don't just "show up uninvited" on the other end of
> the line!

To me, texts are the equivalent of pagers. If I don't pickup a call,
assuming I heard the ring (*), there's voicemail. If a caller doesn't
leave a message, it was not an important call.

(*) My global ring tone is quiet, so it is easy to miss, and won't
interfere with what is going on at the time, like a meeting. I
assign a loud ring tone to my contacts. That way, wrong dials,
spam, and unimportant calls don't irritate me with a loud ring, but
contacts get a loud ring, so I know it is someone I know that is
calling me. Volume is low for notifications, so those don't bother
me much, either.

That I own a phone is not permission for others to waste my time.

> I mostly use email. Customers, friends, family... Occasionally
> with family I talk for an hour or more on the phone. But email
> allows me to keep in touch, write long emails if necessary, and
> I don't need to coordinate timing. I just check email when I'm
> in the mood, a few times a day. I'm not a drug dealer or a
> country doctor. No one needs to reach me NOW.

E-mail requires some minimum that the sender can write. Not always true
(my sister is horrendously bad). Instead of attempting to figure out
what to say during a call, what to say in a voicemail, or dash out in a
text, e-mail tends to make senders communicate better. It's getting out
of favor because the kids think it's old technology, and they just must
use newer stuff.

On 2023-10-11 03:21:51 +0000, Peter said:
> Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
>>> I wouldn't know. And I do not care.
>>
>> You might not care that apple inserts a unique identifier unique to your
>> apple id account with every app you download - but apple cares. A lot!
>
> The reason Apple ties every app installed to the person who installed it
> is that Apple is logging every mouse click he does with every app he uses.
>
> It's all tied to his AppleID which is why Apple wants him logging in.
>
> Apple is probably selling his data to the developers and to advertisers.

Another brainless numbnut for the killfile.

VanguardLH wrote:

> Long ago, cell phones were called mobile phones.

As far as I know, the "where" matters more than the "when".

In the UK, they're mobile phones, cell phones is an American thing, in
Germany they're called a handy.

On 2023-10-10 18:50, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:03:25 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> If I'm on my iPhone, logged out of Apple, SMS/MMS works fine because:
>> phone. No log in at all.
>
> That's exactly how it works on android but it doesn't work that way on ios.
> Try it.
>
> Log out of your apple id account.
> Then try to send a text message using your default apple messenger.
>
> Write back what happens.

To assuage all doubts, I just wasted time and logged out of Apple on my
iPhone.

Apple Message Works fine. Of course not via iMessage. Just via plain
"old" SMS/MMS.

>> And so do all other messaging apps.
>> Because: phone and/or WiFi. And I
>> have to be logged into those too for them to work.
>
> That's a different subject - which means you know you're lying.
>
> Of course your banking app or your linked-in account needs a login.
> Of course whatsapp or telegram or signal or facebook need an account.
>
> On any platform.
>
> But we're talking about two of the most basic things a phone does.
> Sending text messages and installing apps from the company app store.
>
> Android sends messages without needing to create a google account.
> The iphone can't.

Well, as I say, logged out of my iPhone and used Message to send
SMS/MMS. No issue.

As to dowloading apps from Apple's app store - being logged in is no
issue at all for me.

If it's an issue for you, then stop moaning about it and blow off.

>
> Android installs from the company app store without creating an account.
> The iphone can't.
>
> Don't equate those basic tasks with setting up an email account because on
> all platforms (windows, linux & macos too!) email will need an account.
>
>> It's only Apple's messaging system that requires I log in. Of course.
>
> At least you agree that apple's messaging system requires an account.
> Android's messaging does not.

I don't agree with you. Apple Message works fine, not logged in to
Apple, using MMS/SMS.

>
> Why did the others lie about that?

Won't speak for them - but if they said what I say above, it would
appear that you are the liar. Surprise! (not).

>
>>> Android does not need you to create any account to find and install apps
>>> taken directly off the official app store. iOS does.
>>
>> Yes. This is the Apple way. Don't like it? Fine. Move along.
>
> It's not a question of liking that ios requires a login to work.

Not at all. As explained. Not my problem you can't handle facts.

>
> It's a question of what is the case.
> And that the others lied about it.
>
> Apple's messaging system requires you log in.

To use Apple's iMessage service:Yes. (Like all messaging services that
are not SMS/MMS).

> Android's messaging system does not.

Other than SMS/MMS? Most - probably all.

>
> Why did they feel they needed to lie about what we agree is the case?

Keep circling. Watch for the drain.

>
>>> The iphone is a dumb terminal connected to the apple mainframe servers.
>>
>> Far from it.
>
> It's a dumb terminal in that without logging into the apple servers, it
> can't do even the simple things like messaging and installing apps.

Sheesh you're a repetitive idiot.

>
> Certainly ios can't do the complicated things you like about it either
> without logging into the apple account (in that way it's a dumb terminal).

Far from it. Only those things that use the Apple integration (aka:
eco-system) need it. And that is fine - because that integration is
head and shoulders above anything in the Android universe.

Done with you.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-10-11, Peter <confused@nospam.net> wrote:
> Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
>>> I wouldn't know. And I do not care.
>>
>> You might not care that apple inserts a unique identifier unique to your
>> apple id account with every app you download - but apple cares. A lot!
>
> The reason Apple ties every app installed to the person who installed it
> is that Apple is logging every mouse click he does with every app he uses.
>
> It's all tied to his AppleID which is why Apple wants him logging in.
>
> Apple is probably selling his data to the developers and to advertisers.

Everything in this post is false.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR