Newyana2 wrote on Tue, 13 Feb 2024 16:15:01 -0500 :

>| There's more to a YouTube client than just the final result.
>| How do you handle subscriptions & comments for example?
>|
>
> That's a good point, but for me it's irrelevant. I'm not
> interested in either. I think of something I want to see
> and search for it. If it turns up on youtube, I download
> it. That's it. I don't enable script on Google properties,
> so youtube.com no longer works for me. But I don't miss
> it.

No problem. Everyone has different needs in free software.

Given full-fledged youtube client features add a hellova'lot more than just
what a web browser can do, the one FOSS tool that Android has that I have
never found on Windows yet, is a good FOSS privacy-aware YouTube client.
https://newpipe.net/

Being privacy aware is important because it has to subscribe, for example,
to channels without giving away who you are (it does it anonymously).

It's the one holy grail missing feature (AFAIK) in Microsoft Windows tools.

However, if anyone knows of a FOSS YouTube client for Windows, please let
me know as I've used ClipGrab & YTD Video Downloader (with the underlying
youtube-dl & yt-dlp) but they're just downloaders and I've used QMPlay2
also, but it's just the streaming part.

Anyone know?

Does a Windows FOSS privacy-aware YouTube client exist yet after all these
years?

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
Mayayana's.
| | Hi, Arlen!
|

That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
to insult you.

Newyana2 wrote on Tue, 13 Feb 2024 16:24:01 -0500 :

> I can believe that the under-30s use cellphones more.

Those kids are fantastic button pushers.
But they fall for every marketing trick in the book.
Nobody sensitized them.

Most of them didn't grow up in the heady days of the Internet though, so
when they fall for every marketing trick in the book, they fall hard.

Because they have no clue how to keep a computing device private.

You can tell someone has no clue how to use a cellphone by what they do.
1. They log into things (yet, that's almost never needed) and in doing
so they had away their contacts, credit cards, identity, location, etc.
2. They buy apps (if they have to buy an app, they're not competent).
3. They see advertisements (if someone sees an ad, they're not competent)
etc

> But in my experience most people I know use them almost constantly.

Kids (up to about 30) certainly use the phone constantly.
That younger ones grew up with a phone in their hands.

But none of them wired a microprocessor themselves like we all did.
None of them wrote code in assembly language like we all did.
None of them had to piece mime-encoded binaries together like we all did.
etc

> I have friends who want me to call them when I go to their house
> because the doorbell is outside of their comfort zone.

Tell 'em to put a cellphone into the keypad like the one that's on my
1,000-gallon propane tank to automatically tell Amerigas to fill it up. :)

> One friend
> who's 75 has his cellphone on the table with him, like his favorite
> stuffed bear, whenever we meet for lunch. My neice who's nearly
> 40 uses it to pay for things, to control locks, call Ubers... For her
> it's the place where she meets most functionality in her life.

When we were in our younger days, we went to Radio Shack like everyone else
to buy all sorts of breadboards, power supplies and electronic components
to "wire the whole house" via a controller made out of a Comodore 64.

Those days are over (although the Rasberry Pi has picked up that slack).
I remember when Kodak came out with the IR sensor we all scrambled to make
it into a parking indicator - and now those things come with all cars.

Hell, we designed a board to tell us where the campus bus is, on a route,
but we couldn't get the school to fund it - but now they're probably there.

> But you may be right about younger people. They're more dependent
> on socializing generally.

Everything they do is online, which is fine, as they choose to do that.
Even we are online in that the DMV forces us to give them our photos.
Our SSN is everywhere by now - and it will survive us long after we die.

The thing I feel sorry for with the kids is they fall for every marketing
trick there is - which is sad when you think of it - but they mostly have a
defeatist attitude. You don't have that. I don't have that.

But you don't know enough about Android yet.
You need to learn a lot more before you claim it can't be private.
It can be.
You just have to know how it works inside & out.
Which takes years.

> I've considered the trend to be disturbing.

Ah, that's because you're a Myers-Briggs xNxJ, where your're highly
intuitive and also strongly judgemental (where the word doesn't mean what
it sounds like - but those are the words they used to describe it).

You don't take in a lot of data (because you're intuitive).
You make rash judgements (because you're highly judgmental).

Me?
I'm the opposite. xSxP. Highly S & P. Like off the charts.

I take in data (sensing) like data is the air we breathe.
Then I take another breath of data. And yet another one.
And one more after that.

Only after I take in all that data do I bother to make a tentative
decision, and even then I test it with more and more data.

You don't do that.
You're far more efficient.

But you're also wrong most of the time as a result.
So is everyone who is intuitive.

You can't intuit technology.
You just can't.

Anyone who tries will "think" they're right about everything.
And that's OK.

We need all sorts of people in this world (that's the P in me).

> But it's not only the phones. It's also the social media and the
> commercial ownership of the entire venue. On the bright side,
> psychologists and teachers are finally coming around and talking about
> the widespread addiction with kids. For many years people thought
> any screen was educational. Now that's finally beginning to change.

Ever wonder why a child can watch a Disney movie a thousand times?
And an adult can only watch it once (if that)?

The child has an open mind that is constantly taking in data points.
Of course, the child is missing datapoints also.

That's why when a child watches a movie, he takes in more datapoints in
each pass, just like we do when we test out technical things.

We have to keep the kid inside of us to keep learning every day.
Thousands of things every day we learn.

And we never stop.
It's all good.

On 2024-02-13 23:54, Newyana2 wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>
> | > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
> Mayayana's.
> |
> | Hi, Arlen!
> |
>
> That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
> sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
> expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
> to insult you.

It's a new alias.

He probably intended to not use this alias much, but to appear as some
new poster to insult me, then disappear.

The instant he names me in a thread in which I was not participating to
insult me by saying I am a racist (impossible: I don't even know what
race he is, and he failed to cite where I have been racist to anybody),
it is obvious he is Arlen.

He has been caught at nameshifting minutes ago in alt.free.newsservers,
too. I kept my silence, but somebody else spilled the beans :-D

Pity, it was interesting to read that in radio silence :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

"Andrew" <andrew@spam.net> wrote

| But you don't know enough about Android yet.
| You need to learn a lot more before you claim it can't be private.
| It can be.
| You just have to know how it works inside & out.
| Which takes years.
| Bingo. So I choose to skip it rarther than waste so much
time to get competent.

| > I've considered the trend to be disturbing.
| | Ah, that's because you're a Myers-Briggs xNxJ, where your're highly
| intuitive and also strongly judgemental (where the word doesn't mean what
| it sounds like - but those are the words they used to describe it).
| | You don't take in a lot of data (because you're intuitive).
| You make rash judgements (because you're highly judgmental).
| | Me?
| I'm the opposite. xSxP. Highly S & P. Like off the charts.
| | I take in data (sensing) like data is the air we breathe.

Sensing is not taking in data. Sensing is living mainly
on body/impulse level. Sensing is cops and athletes. Though
I'm only familar with Jung's version. Myers Briggs is superficial
management strategy.

| > But it's not only the phones. It's also the social media and the
| > commercial ownership of the entire venue. On the bright side,
| > psychologists and teachers are finally coming around and talking about
| > the widespread addiction with kids. For many years people thought
| > any screen was educational. Now that's finally beginning to change.
| | Ever wonder why a child can watch a Disney movie a thousand times?
| And an adult can only watch it once (if that)?
| | The child has an open mind that is constantly taking in data points.
| Of course, the child is missing datapoints also.
| | That's why when a child watches a movie, he takes in more datapoints in
| each pass, just like we do when we test out technical things.
| I think that's your sensing impulsiveness coming through. :)
Kids watch it over and over because the famiarity is comforting.

> And kids use it even more than we do as most of us old men don't
> need X (formerly known as Twitter); but our kids swear by that stuff.

Keep in mind that seventy-something year old former US president Trump
used Twitter more than most youngsters. And judging by the raw nature of
his tweets, he was creating them on his own. Not all technology has an
age divide.

Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>
> | > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
> Mayayana's.
> |
> | Hi, Arlen!
> |
>
> That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
> sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
> expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
> to insult you.

Note that while 'Arlen' insults you from his 'rdb' alias, he happily
chats with you from his 'Andrew' alias, all in the very same thread and
on the very same subject matter.

The mind boggles.

On 2024-02-14 12:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>
>> | > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
>> Mayayana's.
>> |
>> | Hi, Arlen!
>> |
>>
>> That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
>> sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
>> expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
>> to insult you.
>
> Note that while 'Arlen' insults you from his 'rdb' alias, he happily
> chats with you from his 'Andrew' alias, all in the very same thread and
> on the very same subject matter.
>
> The mind boggles.

And asks an admin how to post without a proper nntp client with faked
identities on another group :-D

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-02-14 12:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> >> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
> >>
> >> | > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
> >> Mayayana's.
> >> |
> >> | Hi, Arlen!
> >> |
> >>
> >> That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
> >> sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
> >> expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
> >> to insult you.
> >
> > Note that while 'Arlen' insults you from his 'rdb' alias, he happily
> > chats with you from his 'Andrew' alias, all in the very same thread and
> > on the very same subject matter.
> >
> > The mind boggles.
>
> And asks an admin how to post without a proper nntp client with faked
> identities on another group :-D

Is that recent? If so, please give a message-id (or group/subject/
date), I/'we' need a laugh. (Or is this in micky's 'OT how to remain
anonymous' thread (which he crossposted to his favourite troll group
(alt.home.repair, so I don't see it)?)

It's also funny that 'Arlen' insults Mayayana, but doesn't realize
that they actually mostly agree on this (non-)issue ('evil' Google,
"spying", 'we' allegedly not caring about privacy). But then 'Arlen' has
never been very good at following what discussions are (not) about, nor
at reading for comprehension.

On 2024-02-14 15:27, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-02-14 12:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>
>>>> | > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
>>>> Mayayana's.
>>>> |
>>>> | Hi, Arlen!
>>>> |
>>>>
>>>> That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
>>>> sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
>>>> expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
>>>> to insult you.
>>>
>>> Note that while 'Arlen' insults you from his 'rdb' alias, he happily
>>> chats with you from his 'Andrew' alias, all in the very same thread and
>>> on the very same subject matter.
>>>
>>> The mind boggles.
>>
>> And asks an admin how to post without a proper nntp client with faked
>> identities on another group :-D
>
> Is that recent? If so, please give a message-id (or group/subject/
> date), I/'we' need a laugh. (Or is this in micky's 'OT how to remain
> anonymous' thread (which he crossposted to his favourite troll group
> (alt.home.repair, so I don't see it)?)

Yesterday.

Newsgroups: alt.free.newsservers
Subject: Posting article failed: Socket Error # 10054; Connection reset
by peer.
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2024 15:44:35 -0500
Organization: To protect and to server
Message-ID: <uqgkbj$1jon$1@paganini.bofh.team>

>
> It's also funny that 'Arlen' insults Mayayana, but doesn't realize
> that they actually mostly agree on this (non-)issue ('evil' Google,
> "spying", 'we' allegedly not caring about privacy). But then 'Arlen' has
> never been very good at following what discussions are (not) about, nor
> at reading for comprehension.

Right.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-02-14 15:27, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 2024-02-14 12:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >>> Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> >>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
> >>>>
> >>>> | > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
> >>>> Mayayana's.
> >>>> |
> >>>> | Hi, Arlen!
> >>>> |
> >>>>
> >>>> That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
> >>>> sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
> >>>> expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
> >>>> to insult you.
> >>>
> >>> Note that while 'Arlen' insults you from his 'rdb' alias, he happily
> >>> chats with you from his 'Andrew' alias, all in the very same thread and
> >>> on the very same subject matter.
> >>>
> >>> The mind boggles.
> >>
> >> And asks an admin how to post without a proper nntp client with faked
> >> identities on another group :-D
> >
> > Is that recent? If so, please give a message-id (or group/subject/
> > date), I/'we' need a laugh. (Or is this in micky's 'OT how to remain
> > anonymous' thread (which he crossposted to his favourite troll group
> > (alt.home.repair, so I don't see it)?)
>
> Yesterday.
>
> Newsgroups: alt.free.newsservers
> Subject: Posting article failed: Socket Error # 10054; Connection reset
> by peer.
> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2024 15:44:35 -0500
> Organization: To protect and to server
> Message-ID: <uqgkbj$1jon$1@paganini.bofh.team>

Thanks. Quite entertaining. Sucking up, lying, boasting and being
caught out. Wonder if the admin (JR) will bother to respond beyond his
first response (before AH's lies/boasting).

> > It's also funny that 'Arlen' insults Mayayana, but doesn't realize
> > that they actually mostly agree on this (non-)issue ('evil' Google,
> > "spying", 'we' allegedly not caring about privacy). But then 'Arlen' has
> > never been very good at following what discussions are (not) about, nor
> > at reading for comprehension.
>
> Right.

On 2024-02-14 12:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>
>> | > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
>> Mayayana's.
>> |
>> | Hi, Arlen!
>> |
>>
>> That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
>> sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
>> expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
>> to insult you.
>
> Note that while 'Arlen' insults you from his 'rdb' alias, he happily
> chats with you from his 'Andrew' alias, all in the very same thread and
> on the very same subject matter.
>
> The mind boggles.

Oh, the alias goes back to 2023-02-05 in this group.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 14 Feb 2024 14:27:37 GMT, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-02-14 12:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> > Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> >> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>> >>
>> >> | > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
>> >> Mayayana's.
>> >> |
>> >> | Hi, Arlen!
>> >> |
>> >>
>> >> That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
>> >> sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
>> >> expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
>> >> to insult you.
>> >
>> > Note that while 'Arlen' insults you from his 'rdb' alias, he happily
>> > chats with you from his 'Andrew' alias, all in the very same thread and
>> > on the very same subject matter.
>> >
>> > The mind boggles.
>>
>> And asks an admin how to post without a proper nntp client with faked
>> identities on another group :-D
>
> Is that recent? If so, please give a message-id (or group/subject/
>date), I/'we' need a laugh. (Or is this in micky's 'OT how to remain
>anonymous' thread (which he crossposted to his favourite troll group
>(alt.home.repair, so I don't see it)?)

Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
Windows repairs.

Tbere are 3 or 4 trolls there, T and Frank (unless they are true
believers) and 1 or 2 who post occasionally, but after I read a couple
of theirs, I don't read their posts anymore unless someone else quotes
them, and even then only if I can't understand the post I'm reading.

It used to be easy with the right software to email anonymously. Posting
to usenet is already anonymous if you want it to be. But it's not as
easy anymore, so it was a reasonable question.

> It's also funny that 'Arlen' insults Mayayana, but doesn't realize
>that they actually mostly agree on this (non-)issue ('evil' Google,
>"spying", 'we' allegedly not caring about privacy). But then 'Arlen' has
>never been very good at following what discussions are (not) about, nor
>at reading for comprehension.

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 14 Feb 2024 14:27:37 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 2024-02-14 12:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >> > Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> >> >> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
> >> >>
> >> >> | > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
> >> >> Mayayana's.
> >> >> |
> >> >> | Hi, Arlen!
> >> >> |
> >> >>
> >> >> That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
> >> >> sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
> >> >> expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
> >> >> to insult you.
> >> >
> >> > Note that while 'Arlen' insults you from his 'rdb' alias, he happily
> >> > chats with you from his 'Andrew' alias, all in the very same thread and
> >> > on the very same subject matter.
> >> >
> >> > The mind boggles.
> >>
> >> And asks an admin how to post without a proper nntp client with faked
> >> identities on another group :-D
> >
> > Is that recent? If so, please give a message-id (or group/subject/
> >date), I/'we' need a laugh. (Or is this in micky's 'OT how to remain
> >anonymous' thread (which he crossposted to his favourite troll group
> >(alt.home.repair, so I don't see it)?)
>
> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
> Windows repairs.

It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
with home repair - to alt.home.repair. By doing that, they/you turn it
into a troll group, a group polluted/ruined by trolls.

> Tbere are 3 or 4 trolls there, T and Frank (unless they are true
> believers) and 1 or 2 who post occasionally, but after I read a couple
> of theirs, I don't read their posts anymore unless someone else quotes
> them, and even then only if I can't understand the post I'm reading.

If there are indeed legit posters in alt.home.repair, then that's all
the more reason for you not to pollute/ruin their group with unrelated
posts.

> It used to be easy with the right software to email anonymously. Posting
> to usenet is already anonymous if you want it to be. But it's not as
> easy anymore, so it was a reasonable question.

I'm not talking about your question, I'm talking about you
crossposting it to a totally unrelated group. That's trollish behaviour,
period/full-stop.

You're an OK guy, but your crossposting to alt.home.repair is
trolling.

> > It's also funny that 'Arlen' insults Mayayana, but doesn't realize
> >that they actually mostly agree on this (non-)issue ('evil' Google,
> >"spying", 'we' allegedly not caring about privacy). But then 'Arlen' has
> >never been very good at following what discussions are (not) about, nor
> >at reading for comprehension.

In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>
>> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
>> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
>> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
>> Windows repairs.
>
> It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
>crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
>with home repair - to alt.home.repair.

Almost all of mine and most of the others threads are marked OT, off
topic. Anyone can make a filter so they don't see off-topic posts. Even
when they are not marked OT, people can quickly see when they are off
topic.

Usenet use is decreasing and there aren't enough home repair posts to
keep the ng interesting.
>By doing that, they/you turn it
>into a troll group,

No, it's a general discussion group. The whole idea that *every* group
has to be limited to one topic is silly in the first place. It made and
makes sense to have topics, as specified in the group name, so that
people who want to discuss a given topic can choose where to go to find
people of like interests, but the idea that everyone has only one
interest is false. What's true, and the advantage of discussing other
topics in addition to the named one, is that when you read posts and
replies by a given set of people, regular posters on a given group, you
learn who is smart and who is an idiot, whose opinion, by dint of prior
posts, you should respect and whose you should not, Then when they
write about other topics, you can apply that same standard.

> a group polluted/ruined by trolls.

And you're not even using the right definition of troll. Trolls are
those who post false or outrageous posts in order to get a reaction.
Like some fishermen troll for fish, they troll for startled or angry
replies. We've had a few of those for a decade or more, maybe always,
but afaict no more now than over the years. They are easy to ignore.

What tends to ruin home.repair is the lack of young people using Usenet.
Older people have solved most of their home repair problems already.
Young people who just bought houses have the most problems and the least
knowledge, but like the rest of Usenet, we have few or zero people like
that. They use the web, despite its inferiority. But the off-topic
posts keep a moderate number of people reading who are there to talk
about home repair when someone comes up with a topic.

On 2024-02-17 19:41, micky wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
>>> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
>>> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
>>> Windows repairs.
>>
>> It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
>> crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
>> with home repair - to alt.home.repair.
>
> Almost all of mine and most of the others threads are marked OT, off
> topic. Anyone can make a filter so they don't see off-topic posts. Even
> when they are not marked OT, people can quickly see when they are off
> topic.
>
> Usenet use is decreasing and there aren't enough home repair posts to
> keep the ng interesting.
>
>> By doing that, they/you turn it
>> into a troll group,
>
> No, it's a general discussion group. The whole idea that *every* group
> has to be limited to one topic is silly in the first place.

No, it is not.

It is what makes a group useful or not.

If most of the posts are not on topic, one has a tendency to ignore or
even disable the group.

If most of the posts are on topic, then one leaves the group subscribed,
and reads it when a post appears.

There are other groups where those posts can go for those interested.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >
> >> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
> >> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
> >> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
> >> Windows repairs.
> >
> > It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
> >crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
> >with home repair - to alt.home.repair.
>
> Almost all of mine and most of the others threads are marked OT, off
> topic. Anyone can make a filter so they don't see off-topic posts. Even
> when they are not marked OT, people can quickly see when they are off
> topic.

Marking threads OT is no reason/excuse for crossposting to unrelated
groups.

Posting an off-topic article to a *single* group is somewhat accepted/
acceptable. BTW, the tag is '[OT]', not just 'OT', because that will
give false positives for some less capable newsreaders. (And indeed,
some (many? most?) of your off-topic threads are not marked as such.)

> Usenet use is decreasing and there aren't enough home repair posts to
> keep the ng interesting.

That's also no reason/excuse for crossposting to unrelated groups.

> >By doing that, they/you turn it
> >into a troll group,
>
> No, it's a general discussion group. The whole idea that *every* group
> has to be limited to one topic is silly in the first place.

Opinion noted and ignored.

> It made and
> makes sense to have topics, as specified in the group name, so that
> people who want to discuss a given topic can choose where to go to find
> people of like interests, but the idea that everyone has only one
> interest is false.

Indeed, people might have multiple areas of interest, that's *why*
there are multiple groups. What was your point again!?

> What's true, and the advantage of discussing other
> topics in addition to the named one, is that when you read posts and
> replies by a given set of people, regular posters on a given group, you
> learn who is smart and who is an idiot, whose opinion, by dint of prior
> posts, you should respect and whose you should not, Then when they
> write about other topics, you can apply that same standard.

Still no reason/excuse to crosspost to unrelated groups.

> > a group polluted/ruined by trolls.
>
> And you're not even using the right definition of troll. Trolls are
> those who post false or outrageous posts in order to get a reaction.
> Like some fishermen troll for fish, they troll for startled or angry
> replies. We've had a few of those for a decade or more, maybe always,
> but afaict no more now than over the years. They are easy to ignore.

Please don't give me/'us' any lessons on Usenet parlance. Crossposting
to unrelated groups is a common troll(ish) tactic. Can't do the time,
....

> What tends to ruin home.repair is the lack of young people using Usenet.
> Older people have solved most of their home repair problems already.
> Young people who just bought houses have the most problems and the least
> knowledge, but like the rest of Usenet, we have few or zero people like
> that. They use the web, despite its inferiority. But the off-topic
> posts keep a moderate number of people reading who are there to talk
> about home repair when someone comes up with a topic.

Again, off-topic posts are 'fine'/acceptable, crossposting to
unrelated groups is not. End of story.

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> On 2/17/24 11:41 AM, micky wrote:
> >In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> ><this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
> >>> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
> >>> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
> >>> Windows repairs.
> >>
> >> It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
> >>crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
> >>with home repair - to alt.home.repair.
> >
> >Almost all of mine and most of the others threads are marked OT, off
> >topic. Anyone can make a filter so they don't see off-topic posts. Even
> >when they are not marked OT, people can quickly see when they are off
> >topic.
> >
> >Usenet use is decreasing and there aren't enough home repair posts to
> >keep the ng interesting.
>
>
> I agree. I prefer most any traffic to a dead group which the Android group I
> monitor is much of the time.

Please note that my citicism is *not* about off-topic posts, but about
*crossposting* to totally unrelated groups.

> But I'll use this post to test out a new
> Samsung Galaxy S9FE Android tablet (toy) for the first time on Usenet so I
> hope the OT cops will find it acceptable on the Android group anyway.
> Unfortunately I don't think this Android newsreader crossposts (bug or
> perhaps on purpose?) so you folks in the other non-Android groups may miss
> this (gasp) OT post anyway...

AFAICT, there are no "OT cops" (in comp.mobile.android)! At most
there's *one*, but he shouts "off topic" to everything, mostly stuff
which is perfectly on topic.

BTW, you broke the crossposting (to alt.comp.os.windows-10), which is
bad, because we now have seperate discussions in the two groups. I have
re-added alt.comp.os.windows-10 in attempt to undo part of the damage.

[...]

[Re-added alt.comp.os.windows-10]

AJL <noemail@none.org> wrote:
> On 2/17/24 4:49 PM, Patrick wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 19:34:47 -0000 (UTC), AJL wrote:
> >>>What tends to ruin home.repair is the lack of young people using Usenet.
>
> >Many news servers have put a.h.r into the "poisoned" newsgroup category.
> >Due to constant off topic posts which have nothing to do with home repair.
>
> 3 problems:
>
> 1. I didn't write that quote.
>
> 2. The OT police are going to get you for posting non-Android stuff in this
> Android group.

See my earlier response. No such thing as "The OT police".

> 3. And the bad guy group A.H.R. won't see it cause it wasn't cross posted.
>
> Course that's kinda my fault cause this Android newsreader deleted it last
> time. Probably just doesn't like 'poisoned' newsgroups?

Your Android newsreader didn't delete A.H.R., because the thread was
never crossposted to that group, it deleted alt.comp.os.windows-10.

> And again for the OT police Im posting this time with my trusty Chrome
> Tablet which also speaks Android...

See 2..

AJL <noemail@none.org> wrote:
> On 2/18/24 8:15 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> >> In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> >> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
[...]
> Gosh Frank, your current many-post, cross-posted, non-OT marked, non-Android
> subject mattered (in this Android group), Usenet correct use sermons are a
> great example of what you seem to despise. Do as I say and not as I do?
> Anyway, keep up the good work cause it makes the place interesting. You too
> Micky... ;-)

When you get cocky, it's best to actually know what did and did not
happen.

This thread was *originally* crossposted to the two groups
(comp.mobile.android,alt.comp.os.windows-10) and, as the Subject: header
indicates ("What!? Are we supposed to pay attention to the Subject:!?
Get real!"), for some good/reasonable reason.

Then there was thread drift. ("What!? 'thread drift'!? Can't happen on
Usenet!") The thread drift was not related to either group, so there
was, and is, no reason to cut the crossposts.

> Again, this Android newsreader will probably sever the other group so
> apologies. On the other hand does it make my post more legal? Mentioning
> Android in a (gasp) Windows group? And I did mention the word Android here
> several times. Sure hope so... 8-O

Now you know that your Android newsreader cuts off groups, you
shouldn't use it to respond to crossposted article.

AJL <noemail@none.org> wrote:
> On 2/18/24 9:10 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> >> On 2/17/24 11:41 AM, micky wrote:
> >> >In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> >> ><this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
> >> >>> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
> >> >>> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
> >> >>> Windows repairs.
> >> >>
> >> >> It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
> >> >>crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
> >> >>with home repair - to alt.home.repair.
> >> >
> >> >Almost all of mine and most of the others threads are marked OT, off
> >> >topic. Anyone can make a filter so they don't see off-topic posts. Even
> >> >when they are not marked OT, people can quickly see when they are off
> >> >topic.
> >> >
> >> >Usenet use is decreasing and there aren't enough home repair posts to
> >> >keep the ng interesting.
> >>
> >>
> >> I agree. I prefer most any traffic to a dead group which the Android group I
> >> monitor is much of the time.
> >
> > Please note that my citicism is *not* about off-topic posts, but about
> >*crossposting* to totally unrelated groups.
> >
> >> But I'll use this post to test out a new
> >> Samsung Galaxy S9FE Android tablet (toy) for the first time on Usenet so I
> >> hope the OT cops will find it acceptable on the Android group anyway.
> >> Unfortunately I don't think this Android newsreader crossposts (bug or
> >> perhaps on purpose?) so you folks in the other non-Android groups may miss
> >> this (gasp) OT post anyway...
> >
> > AFAICT, there are no "OT cops" (in comp.mobile.android)! At most
> >there's *one*, but he shouts "off topic" to everything, mostly stuff
> >which is perfectly on topic.
> >
> > BTW, you broke the crossposting (to alt.comp.os.windows-10), which is
> >bad, because we now have seperate discussions in the two groups. I have
> >re-added alt.comp.os.windows-10 in attempt to undo part of the damage.
>
> I didn't break the crosspost, my newsreader did, and since I paid 2 bucks
> for it 5 years ago I'm not gonna stop using it until I get my money's
> worth. Besides what's more appropriate than an Android newsreader in an
> Android group? Unfortunately I no longer have any Android 9 or below
> devices (given to greatgrandkids) so my favorite (and only) Android
> multi-group newsreader Groundhog is now read only on my current devices...

Duh! Of course I know that your newsreader broke the crossposting, but
because you *know* it does that, you shouldn't use it to respond to
crossposted postings, because it creates seperate, duplicate discussions
is the affected groups.

AJL <noemail@none.org> wrote:
> On 2/18/24 9:45 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >AJL <noemail@none.org> wrote:
> >> On 2/18/24 8:15 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >> >micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> >> >> In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> >> >> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >[...]
> >> Gosh Frank, your current many-post, cross-posted, non-OT marked, non-Android
> >> subject mattered (in this Android group), Usenet correct use sermons are a
> >> great example of what you seem to despise. Do as I say and not as I do?
> >> Anyway, keep up the good work cause it makes the place interesting. You too
> >> Micky... ;-)
> >
> > When you get cocky, it's best to actually know what did and did not
> >happen.
> >
> > This thread was *originally* crossposted to the two groups
> >(comp.mobile.android,alt.comp.os.windows-10) and, as the Subject: header
> >indicates ("What!? Are we supposed to pay attention to the Subject:!?
> >Get real!"), for some good/reasonable reason.
> >
> > Then there was thread drift. ("What!? 'thread drift'!? Can't happen on
> >Usenet!") The thread drift was not related to either group, so there
> >was, and is, no reason to cut the crossposts.

Non response duly noted.

> >> Again, this Android newsreader will probably sever the other group so
> >> apologies. On the other hand does it make my post more legal? Mentioning
> >> Android in a (gasp) Windows group? And I did mention the word Android here
> >> several times. Sure hope so... 8-O
> >
> > Now you know that your Android newsreader cuts off groups, you
> >shouldn't use it to respond to crossposted article.
>
> Aye aye sir...

I don't know why - this time - you behave the way you behave, but it's
clear you've not been following the (sub)thread(s), yet apparently still
feel the need to criticize me with bogus and rather offensive
(non-)arguments.

So no, saying "Aye aye sir..." only adds to the offense.

On 2024-02-18 17:10, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> BTW, you broke the crossposting (to alt.comp.os.windows-10), which is
> bad, because we now have seperate discussions in the two groups. I have
> re-added alt.comp.os.windows-10 in attempt to undo part of the damage.

Thanks.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In comp.mobile.android, on 18 Feb 2024 16:10:08 GMT, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>> On 2/17/24 11:41 AM, micky wrote:
>> >In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
>> ><this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
>> >>> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
>> >>> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
>> >>> Windows repairs.
>> >>
>> >> It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
>> >>crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
>> >>with home repair - to alt.home.repair.
>> >
>> >Almost all of mine and most of the others threads are marked OT, off
>> >topic. Anyone can make a filter so they don't see off-topic posts. Even
>> >when they are not marked OT, people can quickly see when they are off
>> >topic.
>> >
>> >Usenet use is decreasing and there aren't enough home repair posts to
>> >keep the ng interesting.
>>
>>
>> I agree. I prefer most any traffic to a dead group which the Android group I
>> monitor is much of the time.
>
> Please note that my citicism is *not* about off-topic posts, but about
>*crossposting* to totally unrelated groups.

I'm glad you brought that up. I have never started a thread that went
to any group I didn't think was related. In practice, they were not
just related but clearly related.

I may have once accidentally added a group in a reply a week or two ago.
I have trouble remembering the names of many groups, including both
groups to which this is posted, the android and windows group. What I
normally do rather than guess at the spelling is visit the group,
display headers, and copy the name, then go back to the unfinished post
and put the name in. A week or two ago I had 3 or maybe 4 posts almost
ready to go, and to each I added one ng name and sent them. One of them
might have been waiting for something else, not the ng name I put in, so
that would have been an unrelated posting. I figured it was no big deal
but now I apologize.

What I don't do is trim groups off a reply post in an existing thread,
because people may be reading any ng I might trim, and they will want to
see all the replies, even if they have drifted off-topic.

Also, when someone trims groups, and he trims the one I've posted from,
the one I'm reading every day, it means if I want to see his answer and
those who reply to him, I have to open and go read, in practice, all the
other, up to 3, other groups to which the post had been sent. That is a
real inconvenience, and I'm sure there are times I don't see them all or
reply even to ones that call out for a reply.

I was told by someone 20 or 30 years ago that it was improper, a
violation of netiquette, to remove groups, for these very reasons. Since
then I've occasionally complained when others do this, and I was told
it's not a violation of netiquette, so I googled, couldn't find that
rule, and stopped complaining, though I didn't change what I do or don't
do. And later I've realized that those who post via google groups can
only post to the ng they are reading, so that's also made me feel
better, and I've probably stopped noticing when it happens.

>> But I'll use this post to test out a new
>> Samsung Galaxy S9FE Android tablet (toy) for the first time on Usenet so I

AJL, don't have a tablet, not likely to do Usenet from my phone, but
what app are you using? All the formatting has been correct so it seems
to work well.

>> hope the OT cops will find it acceptable on the Android group anyway.
>> Unfortunately I don't think this Android newsreader crossposts (bug or
>> perhaps on purpose?) so you folks in the other non-Android groups may miss
>> this (gasp) OT post anyway...
>
> AFAICT, there are no "OT cops" (in comp.mobile.android)! At most
>there's *one*, but he shouts "off topic" to everything, mostly stuff
>which is perfectly on topic.
>
> BTW, you broke the crossposting (to alt.comp.os.windows-10), which is
>bad, because we now have seperate discussions in the two groups. I have
>re-added alt.comp.os.windows-10 in attempt to undo part of the damage.

Yes, good, that's for the same reason I don't trim groups. So maybe
trimming is a violation of netiquette, at least sometimes?

>
>[...]

On 2024-02-18 23:00, AJL wrote:
> On 2/18/24 2:33 PM, micky wrote:
>> In comp.mobile.android, on 18 Feb 2024 16:10:08 GMT, Frank Slootweg
>> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

....

>> Yes, good, that's for the same reason I don't trim groups.   So maybe
>> trimming is a violation of netiquette, at least sometimes?
>
> If you missed it PhoNews doesn't crosspost which annoys some here. Since I
> only monitor this one group it has never really bothered me all that much.
> At least not enough to dig out my old (yuk) Windows LT...

It bothers those of us who are reading the thread on a different group
than you.

--
Cheers, Carlos.