According to johnson <root@example.net>:
>>>>I did acquire a taste for Abbot Ale when I was last in
>>>>Milton Keynes, but that's much harder to find on this side
>>>>of the pond.

Agreed, it's pretty good. But any cask ale from the cask is pretty good.

>>> Yuck indeed. I prefer rum.
>>
>> Good rum, well watered. Bacardi.
>>
>Bacardi is cooking rum; for me it's Mount Gay or Vat 19.

They're OK, but not as good as French agricutural rum. It's hard but
not impossible to find in the U.S.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 2:17:09 PM UTC-5, John Levine wrote:
> According to johnson <ro...@example.net>:
> >>>>I did acquire a taste for Abbot Ale when I was last in
> >>>>Milton Keynes, but that's much harder to find on this side
> >>>>of the pond.
> Agreed, it's pretty good. But any cask ale from the cask is pretty good.
> >>> Yuck indeed. I prefer rum.
> >>
> >> Good rum, well watered. Bacardi.
> >>
> >Bacardi is cooking rum; for me it's Mount Gay or Vat 19.
> They're OK, but not as good as French agricutural rum. It's hard but
> not impossible to find in the U.S.
>
> --
> Regards,
> John Levine, jo...@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Ron de Barrilito has a French backhistory; during the years when I frequently worked in Puerto Rico, I would carry home a six-pack of their three-star bottles.

According to TrailingEdgeTechnologies <bbreynolds@aol.com>:
>> >Bacardi is cooking rum; for me it's Mount Gay or Vat 19.
>> They're OK, but not as good as French agricutural rum. It's hard but
>> not impossible to find in the U.S.

>Ron de Barrilito has a French backhistory; during the years when I frequently worked in Puerto Rico, I would carry home a six-pack of their three-star bottles.

I'll take a look.

Agricultural rum is made directly from sugar cane, while regular rum
is made from molasses. The cane has to be pressed and fermented
shortly after picking so it's only made in a few places where cane is
grown. Most of it is from France, a little from other places in the
Caribbean and apparently a few places in Lousiana and South Carolina.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
>
> Good rum, well watered. Bacardi.

Gosling's Black Seal.

On 2023-02-25, maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2023-02-25, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 16:17:21 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>>>
>>>I did acquire a taste for Abbot Ale when I was last in
>>>Milton Keynes, but that's much harder to find on this side
>>>of the pond.
>>
>> Yuck indeed. I prefer rum.
>
> Good rum, well watered. Bacardi.

I am partial to Plantation Grande Reserve, from Barbados, myself. Tastes
kind of like butterscotch.

Niklas
--
New, from IKEA: DARCKENSE, the chair. Available in white only.
All-natural materials!

On 2023-02-27 03:35, John Levine wrote:
> According to TrailingEdgeTechnologies <bbreynolds@aol.com>:
>>>> Bacardi is cooking rum; for me it's Mount Gay or Vat 19.
>>> They're OK, but not as good as French agricutural rum. It's hard but
>>> not impossible to find in the U.S.
>
>> Ron de Barrilito has a French backhistory; during the years when I frequently worked in Puerto Rico, I would carry home a six-pack of their three-star bottles.
>
> I'll take a look.
>
> Agricultural rum is made directly from sugar cane, while regular rum
> is made from molasses. The cane has to be pressed and fermented
> shortly after picking so it's only made in a few places where cane is
> grown. Most of it is from France, a little from other places in the
> Caribbean and apparently a few places in Lousiana and South Carolina.

It was also made in or near Granada, Spain. At Motril, perhaps. In the
80's my friends from there were lamenting that the production was lost.
No idea about now.

There is also "Ron miel" made at the Canary islands.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_miel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_miel

https://www.bodecall.com/blog/ron-montero-un-delicioso-ron-granadino/

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 24/02/2023 15:34, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>
>> "why not juststore and use the electricity directly then?"
>>
>> The main current "green" power systems are solar (doesn't work at night)
>> wind (only works when it's windy, and sometimes there are windless
>> patches hundreds of miles across) and hydro (we've used all the good
>> sites already). None of these will provide the power we want at the
>> times we want it.
>>
>> If you have a system that will store electricity at grid scales we're
>> all ears. The world really will beat a path to your door.
>
> Do a google search on utility-scale storage. There are several systems
> currently in operation, and a bunch more in various phases of investigation
> from battery systems (li-ion and various flow batteries) to molten salt
> systems and of course the standby pumped storage). There is plenty of
> room for innovation in this segment.
>
>>
>> Storing hydrogen is one of the possible methods, but as we've discussed
>> it has all sorts of problems.
>
> You don't necessarily have to store it as molecular hydrogen.
>
> https://www.iea.org/reports/grid-scale-storage

That's an interesting report, but I get the impression that the author
isn't really that clear about the difference between a joule and a watt.
Mostly it talks about GW, and only occasionally mentions GWh.

That says that globally there were 16GW of capacity at the end of 2021.

Wikipedia tells me that world production us around 25PWh/year.
Annoyingly different units.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_generation

That's 25E15Wh, spread over 8760 hours, so 1.7E12W. So global storage is
capable of about 1% of mean output, and I have no idea how long for. It
needs to be weeks :(

Pumped storage isn't going to be it. We don't have enough mountain lakes
above lowland lakes, or sites we could build them.

Andy

On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 21:46:46 +0000
Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 24/02/2023 15:34, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
> >>
> >> "why not juststore and use the electricity directly then?"
> >>
> >> The main current "green" power systems are solar (doesn't work at night)
> >> wind (only works when it's windy, and sometimes there are windless
> >> patches hundreds of miles across) and hydro (we've used all the good
> >> sites already). None of these will provide the power we want at the
> >> times we want it.
> >>
> >> If you have a system that will store electricity at grid scales we're
> >> all ears. The world really will beat a path to your door.
[]
>
> That's 25E15Wh, spread over 8760 hours, so 1.7E12W. So global storage is
> capable of about 1% of mean output, and I have no idea how long for. It
> needs to be weeks :(
>
> Pumped storage isn't going to be it. We don't have enough mountain lakes
> above lowland lakes, or sites we could build them.
>
I have a cunning plan: mercury tubs at the top of skyscrapers.
Or just fill the lifts with lead!
</daft ideas>

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> writes:
>On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 21:46:46 +0000
>Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 24/02/2023 15:34, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> > Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> >>
>> >> "why not juststore and use the electricity directly then?"
>> >>
>> >> The main current "green" power systems are solar (doesn't work at night)
>> >> wind (only works when it's windy, and sometimes there are windless
>> >> patches hundreds of miles across) and hydro (we've used all the good
>> >> sites already). None of these will provide the power we want at the
>> >> times we want it.
>> >>
>> >> If you have a system that will store electricity at grid scales we're
>> >> all ears. The world really will beat a path to your door.
>[]
>>
>> That's 25E15Wh, spread over 8760 hours, so 1.7E12W. So global storage is
>> capable of about 1% of mean output, and I have no idea how long for. It
>> needs to be weeks :(
>>
>> Pumped storage isn't going to be it. We don't have enough mountain lakes
>> above lowland lakes, or sites we could build them.
>>
>I have a cunning plan: mercury tubs at the top of skyscrapers.

https://onezero.medium.com/the-new-super-battery-made-of-concrete-aeee436ecc67

On 2023-02-28, Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> I have a cunning plan: mercury tubs at the top of skyscrapers.
> Or just fill the lifts with lead!

This could be a modern update of the vats of boiling oil
or molten lead to pour onto the masses storming the walls.
The more things change, the more they remain the same.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 22:31:39 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> writes:
> >On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 21:46:46 +0000
> >Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 24/02/2023 15:34, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> > Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
> >> >>
> >> >> "why not juststore and use the electricity directly then?"
> >> >>
> >> >> The main current "green" power systems are solar (doesn't work at night)
> >> >> wind (only works when it's windy, and sometimes there are windless
> >> >> patches hundreds of miles across) and hydro (we've used all the good
> >> >> sites already). None of these will provide the power we want at the
> >> >> times we want it.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you have a system that will store electricity at grid scales we're
> >> >> all ears. The world really will beat a path to your door.
> >[]
> >>
> >> That's 25E15Wh, spread over 8760 hours, so 1.7E12W. So global storage is
> >> capable of about 1% of mean output, and I have no idea how long for. It
> >> needs to be weeks :(
> >>
> >> Pumped storage isn't going to be it. We don't have enough mountain lakes
> >> above lowland lakes, or sites we could build them.
> >>
> >I have a cunning plan: mercury tubs at the top of skyscrapers.
>
> https://onezero.medium.com/the-new-super-battery-made-of-concrete-aeee436ecc67
>
Possibly 'cos I live in a cookie-questioning Europe, I'm denied access to
that; is it the same technology as this?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/05/210518114247.htm

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> writes:
>On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 22:31:39 GMT
>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> writes:
>> >On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 21:46:46 +0000
>> >Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 24/02/2023 15:34, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> >> > Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "why not juststore and use the electricity directly then?"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The main current "green" power systems are solar (doesn't work at night)
>> >> >> wind (only works when it's windy, and sometimes there are windless
>> >> >> patches hundreds of miles across) and hydro (we've used all the good
>> >> >> sites already). None of these will provide the power we want at the
>> >> >> times we want it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you have a system that will store electricity at grid scales we're
>> >> >> all ears. The world really will beat a path to your door.
>> >[]
>> >>
>> >> That's 25E15Wh, spread over 8760 hours, so 1.7E12W. So global storage is
>> >> capable of about 1% of mean output, and I have no idea how long for. It
>> >> needs to be weeks :(
>> >>
>> >> Pumped storage isn't going to be it. We don't have enough mountain lakes
>> >> above lowland lakes, or sites we could build them.
>> >>
>> >I have a cunning plan: mercury tubs at the top of skyscrapers.
>>
>> https://onezero.medium.com/the-new-super-battery-made-of-concrete-aeee436ecc67
>>
>Possibly 'cos I live in a cookie-questioning Europe, I'm denied access to
>that; is it the same technology as this?
>https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/05/210518114247.htm

No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Vault
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/energy-vault-gravity-storage
https://www.energyvault.com/ldes

On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 14:41:23 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> writes:
> >On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 22:31:39 GMT
> >scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> >
> >> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> writes:
> >> >On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 21:46:46 +0000
> >> >Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 24/02/2023 15:34, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> >> > Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "why not juststore and use the electricity directly then?"
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The main current "green" power systems are solar (doesn't work at night)
> >> >> >> wind (only works when it's windy, and sometimes there are windless
> >> >> >> patches hundreds of miles across) and hydro (we've used all the good
> >> >> >> sites already). None of these will provide the power we want at the
> >> >> >> times we want it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If you have a system that will store electricity at grid scales we're
> >> >> >> all ears. The world really will beat a path to your door.
> >> >[]
> >> >>
> >> >> That's 25E15Wh, spread over 8760 hours, so 1.7E12W. So global storage is
> >> >> capable of about 1% of mean output, and I have no idea how long for. It
> >> >> needs to be weeks :(
> >> >>
> >> >> Pumped storage isn't going to be it. We don't have enough mountain lakes
> >> >> above lowland lakes, or sites we could build them.
> >> >>
> >> >I have a cunning plan: mercury tubs at the top of skyscrapers.
> >>
> >> https://onezero.medium.com/the-new-super-battery-made-of-concrete-aeee436ecc67
> >>
> >Possibly 'cos I live in a cookie-questioning Europe, I'm denied access to
> >that; is it the same technology as this?
> >https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/05/210518114247.htm
>
> No.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Vault
> https://www.wired.co.uk/article/energy-vault-gravity-storage
> https://www.energyvault.com/ldes

Ta. 1 Megawatt! (small print: for 30s)
I guess Concrete has a better lobbiest then Lead. And I was so close!

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 14:41:23 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Vault
> https://www.wired.co.uk/article/energy-vault-gravity-storage
> https://www.energyvault.com/ldes

Hmmm 35 tonnes holding 8.3kWh each if my sums are right - not too
impressed with the energy density. It could do with being a few hundred
metres taller.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2023-02-04, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Caesar adsum jam forte?

I'd eat some jam at forty, too.

According to Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1>:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Vault
>> https://www.wired.co.uk/article/energy-vault-gravity-storage
>> https://www.energyvault.com/ldes
>
>Ta. 1 Megawatt! (small print: for 30s)
>I guess Concrete has a better lobbiest then Lead. And I was so close!

The video on their web site says each module is 10MWh and it looks
like they expect most installations to be multiple modules. The
picture shows four.

I thought I read of someone doing the same thing down a disused
mine shaft, but I can't find it now.

Ares have sort of the same idea, rolling railcars full of rocks up and
down the side of a large gravel pit in Nevada. Each track stores 5MW
(I assume they mean 5MWh) and the number of tracks depends on how big
your site is.

https://aresnorthamerica.com/nevada-project/

On the other hand, I see there is a 400MWh flow battery
in China.

https://www.energy-storage.news/first-phase-of-800mwh-world-biggest-flow-battery-commissioned-in-china/

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 14:41:23 GMT
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Vault
>> https://www.wired.co.uk/article/energy-vault-gravity-storage
>> https://www.energyvault.com/ldes
>
> Hmmm 35 tonnes holding 8.3kWh each if my sums are right - not too
> impressed with the energy density. It could do with being a few hundred
> metres taller.

I suspect the cranes/winches will have fun avoiding the blocks catching
the wind

On Wed, 1 Mar 2023 20:30:49 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 14:41:23 GMT
> > scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> >
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Vault
> >> https://www.wired.co.uk/article/energy-vault-gravity-storage
> >> https://www.energyvault.com/ldes
> >
> > Hmmm 35 tonnes holding 8.3kWh each if my sums are right - not
> > too impressed with the energy density. It could do with being a few
> > hundred metres taller.
>
> I suspect the cranes/winches will have fun avoiding the blocks catching
> the wind

Ouch! Clocked by the pendulum!

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
> On the other hand, I see there is a 400MWh flow battery
> in China.
> https://www.energy-storage.news/first-phase-of-800mwh-world-biggest-flow-battery-commissioned-in-china/

GCD Reversible Pumps
https://www.usbr.gov/pn/grandcoulee/cbp/johnkeys/index.html
The Pump-Generating Plant at Grand Coulee Dam was completed in 1951 and
expanded through the 1970s. It contains 12 pumps that lift water from
the Columbia River up the hillside to a canal that flows into Banks
Lake, which provides irrigation water to over 670,000 acres in the
Columbia Basin Project. Six of the pumps can be reversed to generate
hydroelectricity when demand exists.

Grand Coulee Dam: History and purpose
https://www.nwcouncil.org/reports/columbia-river-history/grandcouleehistory/
Individual penstocks carry water to each generator at Grand Coulee. The
largest of these, at the Third Power Plant, are 40 feet in diameter and
carry up to 35,000 cubic feet per second of water, or more than twice
the average annual flow of the Colorado River. The dam complex includes
three switchyards to transmit electricity into the regional power grid.

pump/generator plant
http://npshistory.com/brochures/laro/grand-coulee-dam-pump.pdf
American Hydro upgrades pumps at Grand Coulee Dam power complex
https://www.worldpumps.com/content/news/american-hydro-upgrades-pumps-at-grand-coulee-dam-power-complex/

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

According to Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>:
>John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
>> On the other hand, I see there is a 400MWh flow battery in China.
>> https://www.energy-storage.news/first-phase-of-800mwh-world-biggest-flow-battery-commissioned-in-china/
>
>GCD Reversible Pumps
>https://www.usbr.gov/pn/grandcoulee/cbp/johnkeys/index.html
>The Pump-Generating Plant at Grand Coulee Dam was completed in 1951 and
>expanded through the 1970s. ...

A flow battery is an electrical battery. It's not pumped storage. It's
not as efficient as Li ion but can be a lot bigger since it uses an
arbitrarily large tank of liquid electrolyte.

We have lots of pumped storage around here. The power plants on both
sides of the Niagara river pump water at night and use it for power
generation during the day so the falls have enough flow during the day
to look suitably scenic.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
> Rail Unions Warned Us: Greed is Dangerous
> https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/02/21/rail-unions-warned-us-greed-is-dangerous/
> In contract negotiations last year, they denounced a business model
> known as "precision scheduled railroading," which aims to boost profits
> by running bigger and faster trains with smaller crews. The practice has
> even earned a nickname among rail workers: "positive shareholder
> reaction." Combined with a lack of guaranteed sick pay, this created
> dangerous conditions for overworked rail employees.
>
> ... but didn't mention the track maintenance issue ... which has been
> around for at least decades ... and then going back to mid-1800s
> http://phys.org/news/2012-01-railroad-hyperbole-echoes-dot-com-frenzy.html
> https://www.amazon.com/Railroaded-Transcontinentals-Making-America-ebook/dp/B0051GST1U

Corporate Greed Is a Root Cause of Rail Disasters Around the World
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2023/04/corporate-greed-is-a-root-cause-of-rail-disasters-around-the-world.html

one of the comments: Why we can't have nice things: private equity,
hedge funds, high frequency trading, ... the financialization of
America.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Is anyone still here? Some pinhead posted a huge binary
to the group, which is a pretty effective DOS attack.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On 2023-02-02, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> Is anyone still here? Some pinhead posted a huge binary
> to the group, which is a pretty effective DOS attack.
>

I remain at my post

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> Is anyone still here? Some pinhead posted a huge binary
> to the group, which is a pretty effective DOS attack.
>

present

--
Pete

On Thu, 02 Feb 2023 18:10:46 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> Is anyone still here? Some pinhead posted a huge binary
> to the group, which is a pretty effective DOS attack.
>
Back up & running. (I hadn't noticed actually).

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.