On 2023-02-22, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>>On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> So you stop and have lunch for 25 minutes along the way. Various
> Tesla variants can reach 405 miles (Model S), as a google search
> will confirm.
>
> In any case, choosing a vehicle based upon a one-time might-happen seems
> counterintuitive - like someone is reaching for a reason to dislike
> battery-electric vehicles.
>
Damn right I am opposed to battery-electric vehicles. When I think of
all the unrenewable batteries that are going to have to dumped in the
years to come, and the useless remainders of those vehicles. The whole
plan to replace fossil fuels with renewables is fantasy, tosh.

The only road forwards is heavy tax on fossil fuels to eke out what is
remaining in the ground. Won't go down well with Bill Gates, with his
four private jets, or that ilk

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
>On 2023-02-22, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>>>On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> So you stop and have lunch for 25 minutes along the way. Various
>> Tesla variants can reach 405 miles (Model S), as a google search
>> will confirm.
>>
>> In any case, choosing a vehicle based upon a one-time might-happen seems
>> counterintuitive - like someone is reaching for a reason to dislike
>> battery-electric vehicles.
>>
>Damn right I am opposed to battery-electric vehicles. When I think of
>all the unrenewable batteries

Stop there. Where do you get the impression that Li-ion batteries
cannot be recycled? The rest of your rant is elided as irrelevent.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/recycled-lithium-ion-batteries-can-perform-better-than-new-ones/

On 22 Feb 2023 18:54:06 GMT
maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:

> Damn right I am opposed to battery-electric vehicles. When I think of
> all the unrenewable batteries that are going to have to dumped in the
> years to come, and the useless remainders of those vehicles. The whole
> plan to replace fossil fuels with renewables is fantasy, tosh.

In that case we are doomed. It may not be possible but we have no
choice but to try or die.

> The only road forwards is heavy tax on fossil fuels to eke out what is
> remaining in the ground.

Then what, abandon technology and starve ?

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 19/02/2023 17:54, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Planning ahead. Don’t you know that isn’t allowed! Actually I’m thinking of
>> all the twisted pair I pulled in my old house that was made obsolete by
>> wi-fi.
>
> You must have a small house, or one made out of exactly the right
> materials. WiFi is dodgy in parts of our house, and I made damn sure I
> had a duct run to my garden office. Twisted pair gives me a reliable
> gigabit; one day I'll run a fibre when that isn't enough.
>
> WiFi won't give you those speeds reliably at any distance.
>
> Andy
>

You can buy wi-fi signal boosters to put in appropriate places.

--
Pete

Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>> On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-02-19 21:28, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 45 minutes would be perfect, considering that if my battery is that
>>>>>>> depleted I am doing a long trip, and I absolutely must take a rest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But if it's 45 minutes, there'll be a queue to even get plugged in ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Today, yes. Eventually, no. Stations are mandated here to evolve and
>>>>> grow charging spots.
>>>>>
>>>> Eventually, yes.
>>>>
>>>> We get away with not having quite enough fuel pumps, and queues at peak
>>>> times. The queues are only a few minutes. Say three cars' worth.
>>>>
>>>> Three cars' worth at 45 minutes each hurts.
>>>>
>>>> I've pointed out to my wife that an EV would be great for her. There's a
>>>> spare slot in the breaker box in the garage waiting for a charger, we
>>>> have private parking, and she never goes more than a few miles - the
>>>> longest day she's ever likely to do is under 150 miles.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand my mother is 150 miles away, and her sister 400 miles
>>>> away, and there's no guarantee that we could get a charge at the end of
>>>> that journey. So we need a car with the ability to do a quick refill.
>>>> Which means dino juice.
>>>
>>> Are y'all incapable of a simple google search?
>>>
>>> The Model 3, today, charges to 80% in 25 minutes with
>>> the current high-speed chargers.
>>>
>>> As battery and charger technology improves, so will the charge
>>> time become shorter.
>>
>> Another simple search: tesla model 3 range
>>
>> gives 272 miles as some kind of official number. Seems a bit short if
>> you want to drive 400 miles...
>
> So you stop and have lunch for 25 minutes along the way. Various
> Tesla variants can reach 405 miles (Model S), as a google search
> will confirm.
>
> In any case, choosing a vehicle based upon a one-time might-happen seems
> counterintuitive - like someone is reaching for a reason to dislike
> battery-electric vehicles.
>
>

No. If I’m going to make a major lifestyle change, like from ICs to EVs, I
would want the new thing to be better than the old, not “almost as good”,
even with “look at all the new nifty features you get.” Especially with
the price differential. For me an auto is just a way to get from here to
there, as quickly and painlessly as possible. When an EV gives me that I’ll
happily change.

I keep bringing up lightbulbs. I thought trying to change from
incandescents to fluorescents was a major PITA, even disregarding the
warning not to throw them in the trash. (I wasn’t about to drive a dead
bulb to a recycling center that accepted hazardous waste!). On the other
hand, LED’s seem better than incandescents in most ways, except giving off
heat to keep the pipes from freezing, and I’m happy to use them all over,
especially given the price these days.

--
Pete

maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2023-02-22, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>>> On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> So you stop and have lunch for 25 minutes along the way. Various
>> Tesla variants can reach 405 miles (Model S), as a google search
>> will confirm.
>>
>> In any case, choosing a vehicle based upon a one-time might-happen seems
>> counterintuitive - like someone is reaching for a reason to dislike
>> battery-electric vehicles.
>>
> Damn right I am opposed to battery-electric vehicles. When I think of
> all the unrenewable batteries that are going to have to dumped in the
> years to come, and the useless remainders of those vehicles. The whole
> plan to replace fossil fuels with renewables is fantasy, tosh.
>
> The only road forwards is heavy tax on fossil fuels to eke out what is
> remaining in the ground. Won't go down well with Bill Gates, with his
> four private jets, or that ilk
>

Hydrogen is the only logical way to go. The problems with hydrogen are
slowly being solved, but the people pushing plug-in EVs are going to be
getting in the way of adoption.

--
Pete

Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
>> On 2023-02-22, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>>>> On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> So you stop and have lunch for 25 minutes along the way. Various
>>> Tesla variants can reach 405 miles (Model S), as a google search
>>> will confirm.
>>>
>>> In any case, choosing a vehicle based upon a one-time might-happen seems
>>> counterintuitive - like someone is reaching for a reason to dislike
>>> battery-electric vehicles.
>>>
>> Damn right I am opposed to battery-electric vehicles. When I think of
>> all the unrenewable batteries
>
> Stop there. Where do you get the impression that Li-ion batteries
> cannot be recycled? The rest of your rant is elided as irrelevent.
>
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/recycled-lithium-ion-batteries-can-perform-better-than-new-ones/
>

Interesting.

--
Pete

Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-02-22, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>>>> On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> So you stop and have lunch for 25 minutes along the way. Various
>>> Tesla variants can reach 405 miles (Model S), as a google search
>>> will confirm.
>>>
>>> In any case, choosing a vehicle based upon a one-time might-happen seems
>>> counterintuitive - like someone is reaching for a reason to dislike
>>> battery-electric vehicles.
>>>
>> Damn right I am opposed to battery-electric vehicles. When I think of
>> all the unrenewable batteries that are going to have to dumped in the
>> years to come, and the useless remainders of those vehicles. The whole
>> plan to replace fossil fuels with renewables is fantasy, tosh.
>>
>> The only road forwards is heavy tax on fossil fuels to eke out what is
>> remaining in the ground. Won't go down well with Bill Gates, with his
>> four private jets, or that ilk
>
> Hydrogen is the only logical way to go. The problems with hydrogen are
> slowly being solved, but the people pushing plug-in EVs are going to be
> getting in the way of adoption.

It degrades the container you store it in.
It's highly explosive. If you think we have problems with mass
shootings, start making H2 available in bulk. Accidents where
the tank gets cracked will be heard for miles.

Possibly someone will come up with practical chemistry to store the H2 in
a fuel cell but I doubt it.

It does burn cleanly and energetically.

--
Dan Espen

Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2023-02-22, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>>>>> On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>>> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> So you stop and have lunch for 25 minutes along the way. Various
>>>> Tesla variants can reach 405 miles (Model S), as a google search
>>>> will confirm.
>>>>
>>>> In any case, choosing a vehicle based upon a one-time might-happen seems
>>>> counterintuitive - like someone is reaching for a reason to dislike
>>>> battery-electric vehicles.
>>>>
>>> Damn right I am opposed to battery-electric vehicles. When I think of
>>> all the unrenewable batteries that are going to have to dumped in the
>>> years to come, and the useless remainders of those vehicles. The whole
>>> plan to replace fossil fuels with renewables is fantasy, tosh.
>>>
>>> The only road forwards is heavy tax on fossil fuels to eke out what is
>>> remaining in the ground. Won't go down well with Bill Gates, with his
>>> four private jets, or that ilk
>>
>> Hydrogen is the only logical way to go. The problems with hydrogen are
>> slowly being solved, but the people pushing plug-in EVs are going to be
>> getting in the way of adoption.
>
> It degrades the container you store it in.

This is an are where they’re making decent progress.

> It's highly explosive. If you think we have problems with mass
> shootings, start making H2 available in bulk. Accidents where
> the tank gets cracked will be heard for miles.
>
> Possibly someone will come up with practical chemistry to store the H2 in
> a fuel cell but I doubt it.

I think they’re developing a system that stores the H2 in a crystal lattice
of some sort that eliminates a lot of the problems. That’s what I mean
about not rushing to push everyone into some sort of half-assed battery
system that has problems of its own when a better system is on its way.

>
> It does burn cleanly and energetically.
>

--
Pete

Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-02-22, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>>> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>>>>>> On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>>>> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> So you stop and have lunch for 25 minutes along the way. Various
>>>>> Tesla variants can reach 405 miles (Model S), as a google search
>>>>> will confirm.
>>>>>
>>>>> In any case, choosing a vehicle based upon a one-time might-happen seems
>>>>> counterintuitive - like someone is reaching for a reason to dislike
>>>>> battery-electric vehicles.
>>>>>
>>>> Damn right I am opposed to battery-electric vehicles. When I think of
>>>> all the unrenewable batteries that are going to have to dumped in the
>>>> years to come, and the useless remainders of those vehicles. The whole
>>>> plan to replace fossil fuels with renewables is fantasy, tosh.
>>>>
>>>> The only road forwards is heavy tax on fossil fuels to eke out what is
>>>> remaining in the ground. Won't go down well with Bill Gates, with his
>>>> four private jets, or that ilk
>>>
>>> Hydrogen is the only logical way to go. The problems with hydrogen are
>>> slowly being solved, but the people pushing plug-in EVs are going to be
>>> getting in the way of adoption.
>>
>> It degrades the container you store it in.
>
> This is an are where they’re making decent progress.

They're fighting the laws of nature.

>> It's highly explosive. If you think we have problems with mass
>> shootings, start making H2 available in bulk. Accidents where
>> the tank gets cracked will be heard for miles.
>>
>> Possibly someone will come up with practical chemistry to store the H2 in
>> a fuel cell but I doubt it.
>
> I think they’re developing a system that stores the H2 in a crystal lattice
> of some sort that eliminates a lot of the problems. That’s what I mean
> about not rushing to push everyone into some sort of half-assed battery
> system that has problems of its own when a better system is on its
> way.

I can't see how you can squeeze a tank of H2 into another tank with a
solid in it without needing more space.

--
Dan Espen

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 15:55:22 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hydrogen is the only logical way to go. The problems with hydrogen are
> slowly being solved, but the people pushing plug-in EVs are going to be
> getting in the way of adoption.

Hydrogen is a *terrible* option. Just consider the charge (extract
hydrogen from some compound) discharge (burn hydrogen in a fuel cell or IC
engine) cycle efficiency compared to that of a decent battery. Then consider
the (unsolved as yet) storage problems and the hazards.

If I had the choice today at the same price as an IC car of a
hydrogen burner (with filling stations everywhere) and the range of an IC or
a 2023 plug in EV with a charge point at home I'd take the latter. The plug
in EV would be get in and drive with never a thought about fuel - the
hydrogen burner would force me to spend time filling it in a hazardous
place just like an oil burner.

However I don't have that choice battery EVs are ready to go NOW,
hydrogen fuel vehicles are a bucket load of research and infrastructure
development away from being a distant second best.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2023-02-22, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> No. If I’m going to make a major lifestyle change, like from ICs to EVs, I
> would want the new thing to be better than the old, not “almost as good”,
> even with “look at all the new nifty features you get.” Especially with
> the price differential. For me an auto is just a way to get from here to
> there, as quickly and painlessly as possible. When an EV gives me that I’ll
> happily change.

I'm with you 100% on this one. I'll change when it benefits _me_,
not some corporation.

> I keep bringing up lightbulbs. I thought trying to change from
> incandescents to fluorescents was a major PITA, even disregarding the
> warning not to throw them in the trash. (I wasn’t about to drive a dead
> bulb to a recycling center that accepted hazardous waste!). On the other
> hand, LED’s seem better than incandescents in most ways, except giving off
> heat to keep the pipes from freezing, and I’m happy to use them all over,
> especially given the price these days.

Hmmm, this automobile argument is starting to sound like lighting options.
What if the current crop of EVs turns out to be like CFLs?

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 11:04:56 +0000
Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On the other hand my mother is 150 miles away, and her sister 400 miles
> away, and there's no guarantee that we could get a charge at the end of
> that journey. So we need a car with the ability to do a quick refill.
> Which means dino juice.

There are several EVs on the market that would make the first round
trip, and some that would make the second one way. If you can plug into a
wall socket at the end then you can charge at 3kW which will take a while
to fill but would let you get to a fast charger for the return.

This rather clever dodge might one day lead to liquid fillable
batteries for portable use (currently the discharge rate is far too low).

<https://www.science.org/content/article/new-type-flow-battery-can-store-10-times-energy-next-best-device>

I bumped into it checking on the current state of domestic flow
battery development - the startups are popping up like mushrooms all over
the world. Pretty soon we'll have a choice of cheap domestic flow
batteries, mostly vanadium but at least one is going for a lithium sulphur
mix. The early competition is going to be bloody!

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 06:15:48 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> I'm with you 100% on this one. I'll change when it benefits _me_,
> not some corporation.

I see benefits to me - just not enough to make me buy a new car to
replace my second hand diesel. Especially as I'd have to find cash for it,
nobody does car loans to people my age.

> > I keep bringing up lightbulbs. I thought trying to change from
> > incandescents to fluorescents was a major PITA, even disregarding the
> > warning not to throw them in the trash.

Why was it a PITA - a simple process of when bulb failsl replace
with CFL worked for me and was no hassle.

> > bulb to a recycling center that accepted hazardous waste!).

Shops that sold them would accept dead ones here.

> On the other
> > hand, LED’s seem better than incandescents in most ways, except giving
> > off heat to keep the pipes from freezing,

Being more efficient is better too - if you want a heater install a
heater it will last longer than a light bulb. All the water pipes in this
place are either inside the insulation or under the ground apart from a
service box by the back door and the outside tap, I don't need to waste
energy keeping them from freezing. So many houses are badly designed.

> Hmmm, this automobile argument is starting to sound like lighting options.
> What if the current crop of EVs turns out to be like CFLs?

They probably will - sooner or later someone will probably improve
on lithium batteries, there is a lot of research going on into battery
design and chemistry. Like CFLs they're better than their predecessors in
many ways, available now and there might not be a successor. Unlike light
bulbs most people sell their car and replace it every few years.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 22/02/2023 14:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> Eventually, yes.
>>
>> We get away with not having quite enough fuel pumps, and queues at peak
>> times. The queues are only a few minutes. Say three cars' worth.
>>
>> Three cars' worth at 45 minutes each hurts.
>>
>> I've pointed out to my wife that an EV would be great for her. There's a
>> spare slot in the breaker box in the garage waiting for a charger, we
>> have private parking, and she never goes more than a few miles - the
>> longest day she's ever likely to do is under 150 miles.
>>
>> On the other hand my mother is 150 miles away, and her sister 400 miles
>> away, and there's no guarantee that we could get a charge at the end of
>> that journey. So we need a car with the ability to do a quick refill.
>> Which means dino juice.
>
> Are y'all incapable of a simple google search?
>
> The Model 3, today, charges to 80% in 25 minutes with
> the current high-speed chargers.
>
> As battery and charger technology improves, so will the charge
> time become shorter.
>

OK, so it's not 45 minutes, it's only 25 minutes.

I don't mind a 25 minute break on the occasional long journey that I do.

I do object a long queue for the charger.

Three cars worth at 25 minutes is better than three at 45, but it still
hurts.

Incidentally a friend of mine has recently gone from Cambs to Northern
Ireland in a petrol car. Local knowledge has told him he'll be unlikely
to get his Tesla charged over there.

Andy

On 2023-02-23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 06:15:48 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I'm with you 100% on this one. I'll change when it benefits _me_,
>> not some corporation.
>
> energy keeping them from freezing. So many houses are badly designed.
>
>> Hmmm, this automobile argument is starting to sound like lighting options.
>> What if the current crop of EVs turns out to be like CFLs?
>
> They probably will - sooner or later someone will probably improve
> on lithium batteries, there is a lot of research going on into battery
> design and chemistry. Like CFLs they're better than their predecessors in
> many ways, available now and there might not be a successor. Unlike light
> bulbs most people sell their car and replace it every few years.
>

I rememeber once that there was a TLA, "RealSoonNow"
about things, Seems to be getting popular again.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-02-23, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 22/02/2023 14:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>> Eventually, yes.
>>>
>>> We get away with not having quite enough fuel pumps, and queues at peak
>>> times. The queues are only a few minutes. Say three cars' worth.
>>>
>>> Three cars' worth at 45 minutes each hurts.
>>>
>>> I've pointed out to my wife that an EV would be great for her. There's a
>>> spare slot in the breaker box in the garage waiting for a charger, we
>>> have private parking, and she never goes more than a few miles - the
>>> longest day she's ever likely to do is under 150 miles.
>>>
>>> On the other hand my mother is 150 miles away, and her sister 400 miles
>>> away, and there's no guarantee that we could get a charge at the end of
>>> that journey. So we need a car with the ability to do a quick refill.
>>> Which means dino juice.
>>
>> Are y'all incapable of a simple google search?
>>
>> The Model 3, today, charges to 80% in 25 minutes with
>> the current high-speed chargers.
>>
>> As battery and charger technology improves, so will the charge
>> time become shorter.
>>
>
> OK, so it's not 45 minutes, it's only 25 minutes.
>

It will be shorter in future, actually, when you think of plugging it
in, it is already recharged :):}

RSN

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-02-23 00:23, Dan Espen wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2023-02-22, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>>>>> On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>>> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> So you stop and have lunch for 25 minutes along the way. Various
>>>> Tesla variants can reach 405 miles (Model S), as a google search
>>>> will confirm.
>>>>
>>>> In any case, choosing a vehicle based upon a one-time might-happen seems
>>>> counterintuitive - like someone is reaching for a reason to dislike
>>>> battery-electric vehicles.
>>>>
>>> Damn right I am opposed to battery-electric vehicles. When I think of
>>> all the unrenewable batteries that are going to have to dumped in the
>>> years to come, and the useless remainders of those vehicles. The whole
>>> plan to replace fossil fuels with renewables is fantasy, tosh.
>>>
>>> The only road forwards is heavy tax on fossil fuels to eke out what is
>>> remaining in the ground. Won't go down well with Bill Gates, with his
>>> four private jets, or that ilk
>>
>> Hydrogen is the only logical way to go. The problems with hydrogen are
>> slowly being solved, but the people pushing plug-in EVs are going to be
>> getting in the way of adoption.
>
> It degrades the container you store it in.
> It's highly explosive. If you think we have problems with mass
> shootings, start making H2 available in bulk. Accidents where
> the tank gets cracked will be heard for miles.
>
> Possibly someone will come up with practical chemistry to store the H2 in
> a fuel cell but I doubt it.

ammonia...

>
> It does burn cleanly and energetically.

Not in an ICE. You still get nitrogen compounds, some of them dangerous,
and some oil burning (lubricants). Yes, far cleaner than gasoline, but
not clean.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 22/02/2023 22:55, Peter Flass wrote:
> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 19/02/2023 17:54, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Planning ahead. Don’t you know that isn’t allowed! Actually I’m thinking of
>>> all the twisted pair I pulled in my old house that was made obsolete by
>>> wi-fi.
>>
>> You must have a small house, or one made out of exactly the right
>> materials. WiFi is dodgy in parts of our house, and I made damn sure I
>> had a duct run to my garden office. Twisted pair gives me a reliable
>> gigabit; one day I'll run a fibre when that isn't enough.
>>
>> WiFi won't give you those speeds reliably at any distance.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>
> You can buy wi-fi signal boosters to put in appropriate places.
>
I've got one upstairs. It's not as good as a wire.

Andy

On 23/02/2023 11:05, maus wrote:
> On 2023-02-23, Vir Campestris<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>> OK, so it's not 45 minutes, it's only 25 minutes.
>>
> It will be shorter in future, actually, when you think of plugging it
> in, it is already recharged :):}

The smallest Tesla battery is 50kWh.

Assume I want a 1-minute recharge and that will require 50*60 = 3000kW.

Equivalent to a thousand electric fires.

What kind of plug will I need for that?

Andy

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2023-02-22, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> No. If I’m going to make a major lifestyle change, like from ICs to EVs, I
>> would want the new thing to be better than the old, not “almost as good”,
>> even with “look at all the new nifty features you get.” Especially with
>> the price differential. For me an auto is just a way to get from here to
>> there, as quickly and painlessly as possible. When an EV gives me that I’ll
>> happily change.
>
> I'm with you 100% on this one. I'll change when it benefits _me_,
> not some corporation.
>
>> I keep bringing up lightbulbs. I thought trying to change from
>> incandescents to fluorescents was a major PITA, even disregarding the
>> warning not to throw them in the trash. (I wasn’t about to drive a dead
>> bulb to a recycling center that accepted hazardous waste!). On the other
>> hand, LED’s seem better than incandescents in most ways, except giving off
>> heat to keep the pipes from freezing, and I’m happy to use them all over,
>> especially given the price these days.
>
> Hmmm, this automobile argument is starting to sound like lighting options.
> What if the current crop of EVs turns out to be like CFLs?

I think that's very likely.

Many of the CFLs I bought are still working. They may have been
disliked by some people, but for me they are working fine.

--
Dan Espen

On 2023-02-23, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 22/02/2023 22:55, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2023 17:54, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> Planning ahead. Don’t you know that isn’t allowed! Actually I’m thinking of
>>>> all the twisted pair I pulled in my old house that was made obsolete by
>>>> wi-fi.
>>>
>>> You must have a small house, or one made out of exactly the right
>>> materials. WiFi is dodgy in parts of our house, and I made damn sure I
>>> had a duct run to my garden office. Twisted pair gives me a reliable
>>> gigabit; one day I'll run a fibre when that isn't enough.
>>>
>>> WiFi won't give you those speeds reliably at any distance.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>
>> You can buy wi-fi signal boosters to put in appropriate places.

The mind boggles.

>>
> I've got one upstairs. It's not as good as a wire.
>
> Andy

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 22/02/2023 14:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>> Eventually, yes.
>>>
>>> We get away with not having quite enough fuel pumps, and queues at peak
>>> times. The queues are only a few minutes. Say three cars' worth.
>>>
>>> Three cars' worth at 45 minutes each hurts.
>>>
>>> I've pointed out to my wife that an EV would be great for her. There's a
>>> spare slot in the breaker box in the garage waiting for a charger, we
>>> have private parking, and she never goes more than a few miles - the
>>> longest day she's ever likely to do is under 150 miles.
>>>
>>> On the other hand my mother is 150 miles away, and her sister 400 miles
>>> away, and there's no guarantee that we could get a charge at the end of
>>> that journey. So we need a car with the ability to do a quick refill.
>>> Which means dino juice.
>>
>> Are y'all incapable of a simple google search?
>>
>> The Model 3, today, charges to 80% in 25 minutes with
>> the current high-speed chargers.
>>
>> As battery and charger technology improves, so will the charge
>> time become shorter.
>>
>
> OK, so it's not 45 minutes, it's only 25 minutes.
>
> I don't mind a 25 minute break on the occasional long journey that I do.
>
> I do object a long queue for the charger.
>
> Three cars worth at 25 minutes is better than three at 45, but it still
> hurts.
>
> Incidentally a friend of mine has recently gone from Cambs to Northern
> Ireland in a petrol car. Local knowledge has told him he'll be unlikely
> to get his Tesla charged over there.
>
> Andy
>

I have driven cross-country three of four times (I lost count). There is no
way I’d want to take any of the current crop of EVs on a road trip. Often
our “stops” consisted of filling the tank while wife and I took turns going
to the bathroom, and maybe grab a fast-food sandwich and a candy bar. Total
time - about 15 min. Also did about 700 miles per day with one or two of
those quick stops. How much time would an EV add? Make that three stops at
1/2 hour or 45 min each. Adds an hour and a half to each day’s drive to
make the same milage. i

--
Pete

To: Vir Campestris
-=> Vir Campestris wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=-

VC> I've pointed out to my wife that an EV would be great for her. There's
VC> a spare slot in the breaker box in the garage waiting for a charger, we
VC> have private parking, and she never goes more than a few miles - the
VC> longest day she's ever likely to do is under 150 miles.

I'm with you so far...

VC> On the other hand my mother is 150 miles away, and her sister 400 miles
VC> away, and there's no guarantee that we could get a charge at the end of
VC> that journey. So we need a car with the ability to do a quick refill.
VC> Which means dino juice.

A plug-in Hybrid like the Prius might be a good fit. Mine's a 2014, only
has about 10 miles of pure electric range, and has the gas engine for
long trips. The new ones are thought to have 25 miles of pure electric -
great for trips around town, while you have the gas engine for long
trips.

I love being able to go to the store and back, take my kids to school,
etc on electric. It helps with the combined MPG as well.

Aside: We lost power in my neighborhood for 3 days this winter. I bought
an 1100 watt inverter for the Prius and ran a long extension cord to my
refrigerator. The Prius used about 1/8 tank of gas to keep the
refrigerator going, turning the engine over once every 15 minutes or so
to keep the batteries topped off.

kurt weiske | kweiske at realitycheckbbs dot org
| http://realitycheckbbs.org
| 1:218/700@fidonet

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To: Vir Campestris
-=> Vir Campestris wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=-

VC> You must have a small house, or one made out of exactly the right
VC> materials. WiFi is dodgy in parts of our house, and I made damn sure I
VC> had a duct run to my garden office. Twisted pair gives me a reliable
VC> gigabit; one day I'll run a fibre when that isn't enough.

VC> WiFi won't give you those speeds reliably at any distance.

I have a 2 story wood-frame house with soundproofing on the floors and
cable modem downstairs. I tried everything to get reliable wifi upstairs
- routers running WPS, wireless extenders, and finally powerline
adapters.

When I started working from home I hired a home cable installer to take
a look, and he found a path I would have never thought of to run Cat6
from my bedroom upstairs to my home office. Now I have gigabit ethernet
for my upstairs home office and an ethernet-connected AP upstairs for
the rest of the house. I should have done this *much* sooner.

kurt weiske | kweiske at realitycheckbbs dot org
| http://realitycheckbbs.org
| 1:218/700@fidonet

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