On 2023-10-09, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-10-09, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 11:23:12 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Looking at some recent stuff on Bitsavers I just realized that my career
>>>> has witnessed the birth and death of video terminals. I started in the
>>>> punched-card era, but my first terminals were hardcopy: IBM 2741, TTY,
>>>
>>> The terminals I used at university were Dec VT-102 vacuum tube/valve
>>> terminals we used with a DEC VAX 11/730 and wrote our homework in VAX
>>> PASCAL. About 1987-89.
>>>
>>> I used an amber terminal somewhere back then, but I don't remember
>>> where. I think it was an Ampex. No idea on the model number.
>>
>> In one place I worked, we had two Qume QVT-102 terminals.
>> One was green, the other amber. Remember the term "ergonomics"?
>
> We had amber VT-220s on our /730. Great terminals.

Except for the keyboards, which were polluted by the IBM PC.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They offer a huge range of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | world-class vulnerabilities
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | that only Microsoft can provide.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- druck <news@druck.org.uk>

On 2023-10-10, Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 21:07:01 +0100
> snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:
>
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> I did, however, manage to port the original 350-point Adventure
>>> (and later, Zork, once I got my hands on the source code) to our
>>> Univac 90/30. It was a lot of work, but being able to lay the
>>> game at all was a strong incentive.
>
> Attack Bear

With your bare hands? Against *HIS* bear hands?

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They offer a huge range of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | world-class vulnerabilities
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | that only Microsoft can provide.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- druck <news@druck.org.uk>

On 2023-10-10, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 23:29:52 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In one place I worked, we had two Qume QVT-102 terminals.
>> One was green, the other amber. Remember the term "ergonomics"?
>
> Yeah, the split keyboards. One half for each hand. My hands refused to
> use them.

Ditto. Even worse, they split the top row between the 6 and the 7,
and I was taught to hit the 6 with my right index finger. Grrrr...

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They offer a huge range of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | world-class vulnerabilities
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | that only Microsoft can provide.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- druck <news@druck.org.uk>

On 2023-10-10,
scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:

> Then again, I have some 12-13 TB to back up and multiple schemes in place to
> handle it (BD-R for things like media files, cloud storage (via Duplicity)
> for things like documents). This way, everything is backed up off-site.
> Doing the same with hard drives would require either a second server offsite
> to receive copies via rsync or hauling drives back and forth.

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon
full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
-- Andrew S. Tanenbaum

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They offer a huge range of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | world-class vulnerabilities
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | that only Microsoft can provide.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- druck <news@druck.org.uk>

If pure cost per GB is your metric, then nothing beats tape. LTO Tape is
available on Newegg for less than 3/10 of a penny per GB.

On 10/10/2023 21:09, rdh wrote:
> If pure cost per GB is your metric, then nothing beats tape. LTO Tape is
> available on Newegg for less than 3/10 of a penny per GB.

Is that a new penny or a pre-decimalisation penny?

(or a US cent?)

Andy

rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> writes:
>If pure cost per GB is your metric, then nothing beats tape. LTO Tape is
>available on Newegg for less than 3/10 of a penny per GB.

However, an LTO tape drive costs USD4,000 and upwards.

That will buy four or five hundred NVME USB-C 1TB solid state drives.

On 10/10/2023 21:09, rdh wrote:
> If pure cost per GB is your metric, then nothing beats tape. LTO Tape is
> available on Newegg for less than 3/10 of a penny per GB.

Is that a new penny or a pre-decimalisation penny?

(or a US cent?)

Andy

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:09:02 -0500, rdh wrote:

> If pure cost per GB is your metric, then nothing beats tape. LTO Tape is
> available on Newegg for less than 3/10 of a penny per GB.

Try Amazon S3 Deep Archive. OK, retrievla time in hours, but...

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-10-10,
> scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
>
>> Then again, I have some 12-13 TB to back up and multiple schemes in place to
>> handle it (BD-R for things like media files, cloud storage (via Duplicity)
>> for things like documents). This way, everything is backed up off-site.
>> Doing the same with hard drives would require either a second server offsite
>> to receive copies via rsync or hauling drives back and forth.
>
> Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon
> full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
> -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum

True...and it's definitely faster to bring a stack of BD-Rs into the office
with me than to transfer changed files to a backup server. I suppose hard
drives being moved would put up even higher bandwidth numbers. :)

--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
> The university had 2741s and TTYs (mostly model 33, but the occasional
> 35 and even a few 37s). They did have a few 2260s (wow, 12x80 screen!).
>
> Once out in the real world, it was all cards. No terminals of any sort
> for several years, then Univac's Uniscope 100 and 200 terminals (block
> mode, synchronous, polled protocol - programming was a nightmare).
> Our foray into terminal emulators consisted of an ISA-bus card with
> a synchronous port, plus software that emulated the Uniscope on an
> MS-DOS box. I envied those DEC shops and their character-mode
> asynchronous terminals - they were so simple by comparison.
> I did, however, manage to port the original 350-point Adventure
> (and later, Zork, once I got my hands on the source code) to our
> Univac 90/30. It was a lot of work, but being able to lay the
> game at all was a strong incentive.
>
> As for terminal emulators, I always have at least one open,
> on both Linux and Windows boxes. Call me strange, but I find
> that most of the time a command-line interface is so much simpler
> than that gooey stuff, and I can do things in a dozen keystrokes
> while J. Random Luser spends five minutes pointing and clicking
> and dragging and dropp... oh damn, where did I drop that thing...

I took two credit hr intro to fortran/computers and end of semester was
hired to rewrite 1401 MPIO for 360/30. Univ had been sold 360/67 for
tss/360 to replace 709 (tape->tape) / 1401 (unit record front end, card
reader->tape, tape->printer/punch). Pending arrival 360/67, the 1401 was
replaced with 360/30 which had 1401 emulation ... and could run MPIO,
360/30 was to gain 360 experience ... so my job to re-implement MPIO.

I was given a bunch of hardware & software manuals and got to design &
implement my own monitor, device drivers, interrupt handlers, error
recovery, storage management, etc. The univ. shutdown datacenter on
weekends and I would have the place dedicated (although monday morning
classes were a little hard with 48hrs w/o sleep). Within a few weeks, I
had 2000 card assembler program. Within a year of taking intro class,
the 360/67 had arrived and I was hired fulltime responsible for os/360
(tss/360 never came to production fruition, so ran as 360/65).

The univ. had some number of 2741s (originally for tss/360) ... but then
got some tty/ascii terminals (tty/ascii port scanner for the IBM
telecommunication controller arrived in Heathkit box).

Then some people from science center came out to install (virtual
machine) CP67 ... which was pretty much me playing with it on my weekend
dedicated time. It had 1052&2741 terminal support and some tricks to
dynamically recognize line terminal type and switch the line port
scanner type. I added TTY/ASCCI support (including being able to
dynamically switch terminal scanner type). I then wanted to have single
dail-up number for all terminal types (hunt group):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_hunting

I could dynamically switch port scanner terminal type for each line but
IBM had taken short-cut and hardwired the line speed (so didn't quite
work). Univ. starts a project to implement clone controller; build a
channel interface board for Interdata/3 programmed to emulate IBM
terminal control unit, with the addition it can do dynamic line
speed. It was later enhanced to be a Interdata/4 for channel interface
and cluster of Interdata/3s for port interfaces; Interdata and later
Perkin-Elmer sell it as IBM clone controller) ... four of us get written
up as responsible for (some part of) clone controller business
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkin-Elmer

other trivia: 360 was originally suppose to be ASCII machine ... but
ASCII unit record gear wasn't ready, so they were going to (temporarily)
extend BCD (refs gone 404, but lives on at wayback machine)
https://web.archive.org/web/20180513184025/http://www.bobbemer.com/P-BIT.HTM
other
https://web.archive.org/web/20180513184025/http://www.bobbemer.com/FATHEROF.HTM
https://web.archive.org/web/20180513184025/http://www.bobbemer.com/HISTORY.HTM
https://web.archive.org/web/20180513184025/http://www.bobbemer.com/ASCII.HTM

after graduating and joining IBM at cambridge science center (i got 2741
at home) ... and then transferring to san jose research (home 2741
replaced 1st with cdi miniterm, then a IBM 3101 glass tty) ... I also
got to wander around lots of IBM & customer datacenters in silicon
valley ... including tymshare
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tymshare
provided their (vm370) CMS-based online computer conferencing system,
"free" to (mainframe user group) SHARE in Aug1976 as VMSHARE
.... archives here
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare

I had cut a deal with TYMSHARE to get a monthly tape dump of all VMSHARE
files for internal network&systems ... biggest problem was lawyers
concerned about internal employees being directly exposed to
(unfiltered) customer information. (after M/D bought TYMSHARE in 84,
vmshare was moved to different platform)

One TYMSHARE visit, they demo'ed ADVENTURE somebody had found on
Stanford AI PDP10 and ported to CMS and I got a copy ... which I made
available inside IBM (people that got all points, I would send a copy of
source).

TYMSHARE also told story that executive learning that customers were
playing games, directed that TYMSHARE was for business and all games had
to be removed. He changed his mind after being told that game playing
had grown to something like 30% of revenue.

trivia: I had ordered IBM/PC on announce through employee plan (with
employee discount). However, by the time it arrived, IBM/PC street price
had dropped below the employee discount. IBM provided 2400 baud Hayes
compatible modem that supported hardware encryption (for the home
terminal emuplation progam). Terminal emulator did software compression
and both sides kept cache of couple thousand recently transmitted
characters ... and could send index into string cache (rather than
compressed string).

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 19:25:40 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> On 2023-10-10, Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 21:07:01 +0100
> > snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:
> >
> >> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>> I did, however, manage to port the original 350-point Adventure
> >>> (and later, Zork, once I got my hands on the source code) to our
> >>> Univac 90/30. It was a lot of work, but being able to lay the
> >>> game at all was a strong incentive.
> >
> > Attack Bear
>
> With your bare hands? Against *HIS* bear hands?
>
Glad someone remembers!

Throw Axe At Troll

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 09:01:58 +0100
"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 19:25:40 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
> > >>> I did, however, manage to port the original 350-point Adventure
> > >>> (and later, Zork, once I got my hands on the source code) to our
> > >>> Univac 90/30. It was a lot of work, but being able to lay the
> > >>> game at all was a strong incentive.
> > >
> > > Attack Bear
> >
> > With your bare hands? Against *HIS* bear hands?
> >
> Glad someone remembers!

The original in Adventure was

> Kill dragon
What with ? Your bare hands ?
> Yes

All in uppercase when I first met it.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:50:11 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 09:01:58 +0100
> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 19:25:40 GMT
> > Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > >>> I did, however, manage to port the original 350-point Adventure
> > > >>> (and later, Zork, once I got my hands on the source code) to our
> > > >>> Univac 90/30. It was a lot of work, but being able to lay the
> > > >>> game at all was a strong incentive.
> > > >
> > > > Attack Bear
> > >
> > > With your bare hands? Against *HIS* bear hands?
> > >
> > Glad someone remembers!
>
> The original in Adventure was
>
> > Kill dragon
> What with ? Your bare hands ?
> > Yes
>
> All in uppercase when I first met it.
>
Yup that's earlier:

IIRC:

Snake - fail
Dragon - works
Bear - as reported above

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 16:42:07 +0100
"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:50:11 +0100
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> > The original in Adventure was
> >
> > > Kill dragon
> > What with ? Your bare hands ?
> > > Yes
> >
> > All in uppercase when I first met it.
> >
> Yup that's earlier:
>
> IIRC:
>
> Snake - fail

In Adventure the snake is dealt with by freeing the bird.

> Dragon - works

Yep as above.

> Bear - as reported above

Not in the classic Crowther/Woods Adventure - there you have to feed
the bear then take it and finally throw it so that it attacks the troll.

Is it in Zork you kill the bear with bare hands ?

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 10/9/2023 12:00 PM, Peter Flass wrote:
> Carl Claunch’s Blog http://rescue1130.blogspot.com has had a few posts
> about his attempts to fix an IBM 1053 (same mechanism as a selectric) used
> as an 1130 console. I never realized there was so much to those things.

A few years ago, I bought a Selectric typewriter at a garage sale. It
sat in my garage for a couple of years, until my wife made me throw it
out. Having read these blog posts, I see that I would never have been
able to get it working.

On 2023-10-11 18:36, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 16:42:07 +0100
> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:50:11 +0100
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> The original in Adventure was
>>>
>>>> Kill dragon
>>> What with ? Your bare hands ?
>>>> Yes
>>>
>>> All in uppercase when I first met it.
>>>
>> Yup that's earlier:
>>
>> IIRC:
>>
>> Snake - fail
>
> In Adventure the snake is dealt with by freeing the bird.

Spoiler alert. :-D

>> Dragon - works
>
> Yep as above.

Also. ;-)

>> Bear - as reported above
>
> Not in the classic Crowther/Woods Adventure - there you have to feed
> the bear then take it and finally throw it so that it attacks the troll.
>
> Is it in Zork you kill the bear with bare hands ?

There is no bear in Zork.
But the bare hands/bear hands comment is in Adventure. Which obviously
is just a silly comment and don't result in anything else/more. You
should feed it, yes.

(Another spoiler alert...)

Johnny

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:31:58 +0200
Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:

> But the bare hands/bear hands comment is in Adventure. Which obviously
> is just a silly comment and don't result in anything else/more.

Oh wow - I never saw that one despite fart ooh many hours playing
it on the 370 and covering vast amounts of line printer paper with hand
drawn maps.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 2023-10-12 14:15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:31:58 +0200
> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
>
>> But the bare hands/bear hands comment is in Adventure. Which obviously
>> is just a silly comment and don't result in anything else/more.
>
> Oh wow - I never saw that one despite fart ooh many hours playing
> it on the 370 and covering vast amounts of line printer paper with hand
> drawn maps.

I went and checked in the 350 point version (looking at the code and
database). Now, I wouldn't swear that maybe the original, original
Adventure didn't have the comment, but then again, I think the original,
original Adventure didn't have the bear, snake or dragon either.

Johnny

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:17:43 +0200
Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:

> On 2023-10-12 14:15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:31:58 +0200
> > Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
> >
> >> But the bare hands/bear hands comment is in Adventure. Which obviously
> >> is just a silly comment and don't result in anything else/more.
> >
> > Oh wow - I never saw that one despite fart ooh many hours
> > playing it on the 370 and covering vast amounts of line printer paper
> > with hand drawn maps.
>
> I went and checked in the 350 point version (looking at the code and

That's the version I first met on the 370.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:17:43 +0200
>Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-10-12 14:15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> > On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:31:58 +0200
>> > Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
>> >
>> >> But the bare hands/bear hands comment is in Adventure. Which obviously
>> >> is just a silly comment and don't result in anything else/more.
>> >
>> > Oh wow - I never saw that one despite fart ooh many hours
>> > playing it on the 370 and covering vast amounts of line printer paper
>> > with hand drawn maps.
>>
>> I went and checked in the 350 point version (looking at the code and
>
> That's the version I first met on the 370.

I have two versions, one in fortran dated march 11, 1977. No bear.

The other is in C, called open-adventure, and does have a bear.

$ grep -i bear /work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/*.c
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: if (HERE(BEAR) && game.prop[BEAR] == UNTAMED_BEAR) {
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: obj = BEAR;
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: if (obj == BEAR) {
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: switch (game.prop[BEAR]) {
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: case UNTAMED_BEAR:
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: rspeak(BEAR_HANDS);
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: case SITTING_BEAR:
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: rspeak(BEAR_CONFUSED);
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: case CONTENTED_BEAR:
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: rspeak(BEAR_CONFUSED);
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: case BEAR_DEAD:
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: case BEAR:
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: rspeak( game.prop[BEAR] == SITTING_BEAR ? BEAR_CHAINED : YOU_JOKING);
/work/opensource/adventure/open-adventure/actions.c: rspeak( game.prop[BEAR] != UNTAMED_BEAR ? STILL_LOCKED : YOU_JOKING);

....

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:13:56 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:17:43 +0200
>Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-10-12 14:15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> > On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:31:58 +0200
>> > Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
>> >
>> >> But the bare hands/bear hands comment is in Adventure. Which obviously
>> >> is just a silly comment and don't result in anything else/more.
>> >
>> > Oh wow - I never saw that one despite fart ooh many hours
>> > playing it on the 370 and covering vast amounts of line printer paper
>> > with hand drawn maps.
>>
>> I went and checked in the 350 point version (looking at the code and
>
> That's the version I first met on the 370.

The one I had on my Amiga A1000, named ADVEN, had none of the animals
mentioned. Did have a grue in the house's chimney. The text, I had a
binary reader program, that it was converted from fortran source. I
forget the max score and the machine they said it had been converted
from. The score was probably 350. I think it came on a Fred Fish disk.

--
Jim

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:15:45 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:31:58 +0200
> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
>
> > But the bare hands/bear hands comment is in Adventure. Which obviously
> > is just a silly comment and don't result in anything else/more.
>
> Oh wow - I never saw that one despite fart ooh many hours playing
> it on the 370 and covering vast amounts of line printer paper with hand
> drawn maps.
>
I gave mine to a works colleague; I found out a few years back (from his
widow, as the surname was memorable) that he's no longer around to
ask for the maps back - but others have done better ones.

He told me that he got the Last Point only by examining the source.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:06:40 -0500
D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:13:56 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> >On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:17:43 +0200
> >Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2023-10-12 14:15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> >> > On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:31:58 +0200
> >> > Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> But the bare hands/bear hands comment is in Adventure. Which obviously
> >> >> is just a silly comment and don't result in anything else/more.
> >> >
> >> > Oh wow - I never saw that one despite fart ooh many hours
> >> > playing it on the 370 and covering vast amounts of line printer paper
> >> > with hand drawn maps.
> >>
> >> I went and checked in the 350 point version (looking at the code and
> >
> > That's the version I first met on the 370.
>
> The one I had on my Amiga A1000, named ADVEN, had none of the animals
> mentioned. Did have a grue in the house's chimney. The text, I had a

The 350 adventure (and possibly many others) had no chimney; it was just a
wellhouse with a spring.

I feel sure 'grues' were a feature of Zork.

> binary reader program, that it was converted from fortran source. I
> forget the max score and the machine they said it had been converted
> from. The score was probably 350. I think it came on a Fred Fish disk.
>
> --
> Jim

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 17:02:16 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> >On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:17:43 +0200
> >Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2023-10-12 14:15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> >> > On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:31:58 +0200
> >> > Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> But the bare hands/bear hands comment is in Adventure. Which obviously
> >> >> is just a silly comment and don't result in anything else/more.
> >> >
> >> > Oh wow - I never saw that one despite fart ooh many hours
> >> > playing it on the 370 and covering vast amounts of line printer paper
> >> > with hand drawn maps.
> >>
> >> I went and checked in the 350 point version (looking at the code and
> >
> > That's the version I first met on the 370.
>
> I have two versions, one in fortran dated march 11, 1977. No bear.
>

Well (SWIDT?)

https://mipmip.org/IFrescue/ajf/Universal350.html

says it's "universal" for the 350 pt version. You must be very fortunate to
have earlier code.

Must be Crowthers (pre Woods) 1975 version then.
https://mipmip.org/IFrescue/ajf/#CROW0000

[snipped C BEAR code]

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.