Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout.

A domingo, 14 de janeiro de 2024 à(s) 01:50:09 UTC, Brotherly Lover escreveu:
> Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout.
You can access the newsgroup through another Usenet client.

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 11:20:26 AM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
> A domingo, 14 de janeiro de 2024 à(s) 01:50:09 UTC, Brotherly Lover escreveu:
> > Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout.
> You can access the newsgroup through another Usenet client.

Google Groups says that I can continue to access the historical files here. Will posts continue elsewhere? And, if so, where?

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 2:04:48 PM UTC-8, Brotherly Lover wrote:
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 11:20:26 AM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
> > A domingo, 14 de janeiro de 2024 à(s) 01:50:09 UTC, Brotherly Lover escreveu:
> > > Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout..
> > You can access the newsgroup through another Usenet client.
> Google Groups says that I can continue to access the historical files here. Will posts continue elsewhere? And, if so, where?

The groups itself will continue in its original form, as the Usenet group soc.genealogy.medieval. It's just that Google Groups will no longer archive it or serve as a platform to post to it. To participate, one will need to use a Usenet news server, which some ISPs still provide, or there are free services (a post here in November suggested news.eternal-september.org). Newer posts will likely be archived at narkive.com.

taf

Brotherly Lover wrote:
> Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout.
>
No, we just have the old one. Usenet
..
Read and understand this carefully:
You do not need Google Groups.

Op maandag 15 januari 2024 om 18:21:19 UTC+1 schreef Ian Goddard:
> Brotherly Lover wrote:
> > Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout.
> >
> No, we just have the old one. Usenet
> .
> Read and understand this carefully:
> You do not need Google Groups.

Hello Ian,

I understand the concern of the original poster as it touched my feeling aswell.
Ever since I first found SGM in 2003 I have used Google (or something before that) to follow and read SGM.
I connected it through a bookmark.
Being a Dutchman the name Usenet does not ring a bell or custom.

Can you explain a dummy how to connect to Usenet to get to SGM?

Hans Vogels

Hans Vogels wrote:
> Op maandag 15 januari 2024 om 18:21:19 UTC+1 schreef Ian Goddard:
>> Brotherly Lover wrote:
>>> Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout.
>>>
>> No, we just have the old one. Usenet
>> .
>> Read and understand this carefully:
>> You do not need Google Groups.
>
> Hello Ian,
>
> I understand the concern of the original poster as it touched my feeling aswell.
> Ever since I first found SGM in 2003 I have used Google (or something before that) to follow and read SGM.
> I connected it through a bookmark.
> Being a Dutchman the name Usenet does not ring a bell or custom.
>
> Can you explain a dummy how to connect to Usenet to get to SGM?
>

A fair question, Hans. I'll come back to it tomorrow but basically you
need two things, a server or feed and a client or newsreader. SGM - and
various other SGs - are all text based so you don't need to worry about
a feed or client that doesn't offer binaries. Text only will do just fine.

There are a number of servers. As it happens my current ISP provides a
feed as part of my service bundle. There are a number of other service
providers based in Europe. I have personal experience of
eternal-september.org \nd individual.net both of which are based in
Germany. They have been around for a long time. You'll need to
register with one of those or with some other.

As for a client there is so much overlap between News and Mail that the
best alternatives are usually combined. Being doggedly old-fashioned I
use SeaMonkey, to continuation of the old Netscape, browser and mail &
usnet client combined. The stand-alone client related to that is
Thunderbird. Claws Mail also has a good reputation.

Wikipedia has a listing of newsreaders. Just one word of warning -
those it lists as Text-based (Alpine etc) are to run from the command line.

I'll leave it there tonight. Select a feed and sign up for that and
I'll work through setting up a connection tomorrow (it's so long ago I
last did that I'll need to remindmyself what prompts to follow!)

Ian

A terça-feira, 16 de janeiro de 2024 à(s) 00:32:22 UTC, Ian Goddard escreveu:
> Hans Vogels wrote:
> > Op maandag 15 januari 2024 om 18:21:19 UTC+1 schreef Ian Goddard:
> >> Brotherly Lover wrote:
> >>> Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout..
> >>>
> >> No, we just have the old one. Usenet
> >> .
> >> Read and understand this carefully:
> >> You do not need Google Groups.
> >
> > Hello Ian,
> >
> > I understand the concern of the original poster as it touched my feeling aswell.
> > Ever since I first found SGM in 2003 I have used Google (or something before that) to follow and read SGM.
> > I connected it through a bookmark.
> > Being a Dutchman the name Usenet does not ring a bell or custom.
> >
> > Can you explain a dummy how to connect to Usenet to get to SGM?
> >
> A fair question, Hans. I'll come back to it tomorrow but basically you
> need two things, a server or feed and a client or newsreader. SGM - and
> various other SGs - are all text based so you don't need to worry about
> a feed or client that doesn't offer binaries. Text only will do just fine..
>
> There are a number of servers. As it happens my current ISP provides a
> feed as part of my service bundle. There are a number of other service
> providers based in Europe. I have personal experience of
> eternal-september.org \nd individual.net both of which are based in
> Germany. They have been around for a long time. You'll need to
> register with one of those or with some other.
>
> As for a client there is so much overlap between News and Mail that the
> best alternatives are usually combined. Being doggedly old-fashioned I
> use SeaMonkey, to continuation of the old Netscape, browser and mail &
> usnet client combined. The stand-alone client related to that is
> Thunderbird. Claws Mail also has a good reputation.
>
> Wikipedia has a listing of newsreaders. Just one word of warning -
> those it lists as Text-based (Alpine etc) are to run from the command line.
>
> I'll leave it there tonight. Select a feed and sign up for that and
> I'll work through setting up a connection tomorrow (it's so long ago I
> last did that I'll need to remindmyself what prompts to follow!)
>
> Ian
Is there a way to access that on mobile?

Hans Vogels wrote:
> Op maandag 15 januari 2024 om 18:21:19 UTC+1 schreef Ian Goddard:
>> Brotherly Lover wrote:
>>> Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout.
>>>
>> No, we just have the old one. Usenet
>> .
>> Read and understand this carefully:
>> You do not need Google Groups.
>
> Hello Ian,
>
> I understand the concern of the original poster as it touched my feeling aswell.
> Ever since I first found SGM in 2003 I have used Google (or something before that) to follow and read SGM.
> I connected it through a bookmark.
> Being a Dutchman the name Usenet does not ring a bell or custom.
>
> Can you explain a dummy how to connect to Usenet to get to SGM?

That's a good question. I'll cross-post it to other groups as there
will be others who want to know that.

You will need two things, a service provider (or server or feed) and a
Usenet client (or newsreader).

First the server.

One thing to know is that there isn't and never was some master news
server controlling the rest. No, Not even Google. The system started
with US university server operators arranging to link with each other,
neighbour to neighbour by modem on phone line. This was even before
they had Internet or its predecessor, DARPANet let alone before Google
existed*. They would connect at intervals and pass batches of files,
including mail and news. to each other. News files were passed from
server to server so that a news item starting out on one server would
permeate to the rest. Once it became available the internet replaced
dial-up lines. All servers were equal except possibly in the variety of
groups they would support and the length of time they would retain
messages for their users to read. That is still the situation today -
whichever one you choose has no more and no less status than any other.

Another thing to know is that the original news consised of text
messages. That's what the original servers handled. Eventually binary
news came into being. AFAICS they are largely used to shunt around
media files, very likely pirated or worse. Soc.genealogy groups are
still text only so there's no value in using a server which supports
binary groups. Text only is good enough and, given that binary files
are larger, text only groups are likely to be cheaper, even supported by
donations only.

Nowadays if you go to a search engine for usenet servers the hits are
dominated by typical articles of the form /N best whatever of whenever/.
For Usenet server searches these lists seem to be on sites whose
garish decorations hint at their audiences; I think we can be sure
there's unlikely to be a text-only so where to look?

First try your ISP. It used to be fairly common, at least in the UK,
that a news feed would be included in the bundle. It's less common now
but my ISP, PlusNet still provides it so that's what I use. In the past
I've used Eternal September at www.eternal-september.org and
Individual.Net at news.individual.net The first is supported by
donations and the second by a subscription which, AFAICR was about a
tenner a year, probably Euro but maybe from the UK GBP but not
expensive. Perhaps other group members can add further recommendations.

Let me add that I have seen at least one service for accessing groups
via a web interface: Easynews. It's listed in Wikipedia's article on
internet newsreaders but I have no experience of it.

This is getting long enough for one post so I'll start writing a new one
for readers and connection. Your first step is to select a service and
register.

* So where did Google enter? Once Usenet was on the internet a site
called Deja News was set up as an archive. It started as read-only but
eventually made posting available. Soon after that Google bought it and
used it as a foundation for Google Groups. In my view the original Deja
interface was better than what it became under Google.

Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
> A terça-feira, 16 de janeiro de 2024 à(s) 00:32:22 UTC, Ian Goddard escreveu:
%><
>>
>> Ian
> Is there a way to access that on mobile?
>

I've just posted the first of a series of longer replies to Hans' post.
In it I mention Easynews being listed by wikipedia as a web-base
newsreader alongside GG. Possibly a hunt around the net might locate others.

Presumably that would work on mobile as well or as badly as any other
website (despite spending about 10 years in the mobile phone industry
just after cellular was introduced I have no great love for smartphone
browsers nor for the user interfaces of most other apps.).

I think it likely that it's probably the only option unless someone has
set up a news <> SMS gateway. Internet works by having a series of
numbered ports available on a server and having protocols associated
with the port to deliver a specific type of service. The web is at port
80 by default and news is at port 119. Unless your mobile operator
makes port 119 available to you it would never get through to the phone,
even if someone wrote a mobile client for it. It's not something I've
ever looked into.

Having written that I've just remembered that the Thunderbird mail
client is, I think, now available on mobile. On a PC it's one of the
clients I'll mention. Iif the service is available on mobile at all it
might well provide a client.

Ian

Let's pick up with the client. This is a piece of software which you'll
have to install if you don't have it already. As a news-client is often
a component of email clients you might already have it installed in the
form of Thunderbird or some of the lesser known email clients. (I'm not
sure about Outlook but I doubt it will provide news. I'll look later.)

Wikipedia has a list of internet newsreaders. To repeat the point I
made in the previous post, binary groups are of no interest to us so
there's no advantage in selecting one which features binary capabilities.

Of the Commercial group I've seen Forté Agent recommended in posts in
the past but have no experience. In the FOSS selection SeaMonkey is
what I use. It's the continuation of the old Netscape as a combined
browser and mail/news/RSS client. It continued in development after
Firefox was split out as a stand-alone browser. Thunderbird was also
split out as a stand-alone email/news/rss client. SM and TB share a lot
of their code but recently TB has changed its user interface to a
tab-oriented version. Sylpheed and its successor Claws present the
classic Netscape interface so although I haven't looked at them my
expectation is that they'll be similar in setting up a news feed.

I'll leave you to select and install your own choice. You've already
signed up with a service as per my previous post, haven't you? If you
haven't we'll not get much further until you have.

The next section is a blow-by-blow account of setting up a newly
installed TBird.

Firstly it's rather pushy about setting up as an email client and when
first run displays a tab to set up an email address. I close all the
tabs to start fresh and then click on the cog wheel icon, next to the
bottom of the left hand column to go to the account settings tab.

Click on the Account Actions control in the second column and choose to
add a newsgroup account. This pops up a dialog to enter your name and
an email address which you'll have set up with your server. Enter these
and click Next.

The next dialog is to the server name. You'll have obtained this from
the service you registered with so enter it and click Next.

The next dialog is to enter how you want this to be shown in your list
of services. It defaults to the server name you just entered. it's
probably as good as any but if you want something different just change
it - it's just a label for your convenience and doesn't affect anything
else. Click Next to move on.

It will then display a summary of what you've just entered, check it
(oops, I mistyped the server name), go back and fix whatever needs
fixing and click on Finish when it's correct.

It will then go to a page showing what you've set up which you can still
correct.

That page also contains an area for the outbound server. If you've
already set up TB for mail you'll have a default SMPT (email) server so
you can use that.

If this is a new TB installation you'll need to set up a server which
your chosen service provider will have provided. Click on Outbound
server in the second column and on the Outgoing Server page click Add.

In the next dialog provide your own description - something like "Usenet
service" and add the information your service provider gave you and
click OK.

If you now close the tabs you'll find the second column has an entry for
your service - it's what I described above as "just a label". Right
click on this and select Subscribe form the pop-up menu.

If all has gone well it will pop up a dialog with a text box labelled
"Show items that contain" and start typing soc.genealogy.medieval (or
anything else if you wandered in here from some other newsgroup!). As
you type the list of newsgroups in the box below will become more ond
more focussed on what you want. Select the one you're interested in and
then click the Subscribe button to . It's probably easiest to choose
one group at a time. Click OK.

You should initially get a dialog box about the number of headers on the
server. Currently mine, for s.g.medieval, stands at over 163,000.
There is an option to download all of them and another, preselected, to
download the last N where N defaults to 500 but can be changed. Think
very carefully whether you want to download the full collection. If
you're moving over from GG you'll have seen recent messages. The last
500 will probably be more than enough so tick mark the reast as read and
click OK.

SeaMonkey and anything using the classic interface, including older
versions of TB goes through much the same process except that setup is
accessed via the Edit option on the main menu, taking the Mail &
Newsgroup settings from the dropdown menu. It beings up a new windown
with an Add Account button which throws up a dialog to select the type
of account to be added.

In message <IUCdnYIJhsJj8zv4nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@brightview.co.uk> at Tue,
16 Jan 2024 11:56:45, Ian Goddard <ian_ng@austonley.org.uk> writes
>Hans Vogels wrote:
[]
>> I connected it through a bookmark.
>> Being a Dutchman the name Usenet does not ring a bell or custom.
>> Can you explain a dummy how to connect to Usenet to get to SGM?

Yes, the term "usenet" isn't necessarily known even by many of those who
use it; they tend to talk about "news" or "newsgroups".
[]
>You will need two things, a service provider (or server or feed) and a
>Usenet client (or newsreader).
>
>First the server.
[]
>First try your ISP. It used to be fairly common, at least in the UK,
>that a news feed would be included in the bundle. It's less common now
>but my ISP, PlusNet still provides it so that's what I use. In the

Ditto ...

>past I've used Eternal September at www.eternal-september.org and
>Individual.Net at news.individual.net The first is supported by

.... though I use E-S as a backup and for when I'm connecting other than
via a PlusNet connection (such as at friends' houses), as the PlusNet
news server won't talk to me then.

E-S is free (though donations are welcomed); I think it's entirely
text-only, which is fine for most genealogy purposes. NIN - alias "the
Berlin server", I think because it's at the university of Berlin, or at
least started there - was, indeed, only ten euros a year last I heard.

>donations and the second by a subscription which, AFAICR was about a
>tenner a year, probably Euro but maybe from the UK GBP but not
>expensive. Perhaps other group members can add further recommendations.

Add at this point that more or less any server will carry many genealogy
newsgroups, not just SGM (I'm reading this in SGB, for example).

Also note not to be worried if you come across the word "subscribe";
people often talk about "subscribing" to newsgroups, but all that means
is that you tell (via your client software) the server that you want to
take such-and-such a newsgroup - no money is involved (beyond the single
annual sub to the server if any), you can "subscribe" to as many 'groups
as you like.

"Client" means the software (or "newsreader") you use to access the news
server. There are several free ones, some of them of considerable
antiquity! But they still work fine. (_Some_ of the older ones won't
work with _some_ news servers because they - the servers - implement a
new[ish] form of security; there are utilities - the best-known being
stunnel [free] - that work as "man in the middle" and implement this.
PlusNet and E-S do not require this.) Probably the best-known of the
very old clients is Agent (in full, Forte Free Agent).

Using a client, once you've set it up with the server(s) you've chosen,
is rather like using mail software; many in fact are combined mail/news
softwares, which is handy if you want to send a personal reply to a
poster (assuming the poster has revealed a valid email address, which of
course many don't), rather than a followup to the 'group. (Doing so is
frowned upon if your reply is something that would be of general
interest to the 'group, but there are often situations where it's
appropriate.)

I'd probably recommend Thunderbird: not because it's the best newsreader
(though it seems quite usable to me), but because (a) it's up-to-date
enough to not need stunnel, and (b) it's widely-enough used that you're
probably more likely to find someone to help you with problems than some
of the others. Most news servers will have a TB-specific page telling
you how to set it up with them; I'm pretty sure E-S does, for example.
Plus, if by any chance you're already using TB for email, you'll already
be familiar with how it works, so won't have much new to learn.
[]
Once you get over the initial learning, you'll find using a ("proper" as
many of us say!) news client is far better than using Google Groups -
certainly, those reading your posts will like your posts more.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too
dark to read." - Groucho Marx

In message <n4ScnSCzJurcEDv4nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@brightview.co.uk> at Tue,
16 Jan 2024 14:05:53, Ian Goddard <ian_ng@austonley.org.uk> writes
>Let's pick up with the client. This is a piece of software which
>you'll have to install if you don't have it already. As a news-client
>is often a component of email clients you might already have it
>installed in the form of Thunderbird or some of the lesser known email
>clients. (I'm not sure about Outlook but I doubt it will provide news.
>I'll look later.)

There's Outlook, the fully-fledged email (and calendar, and lots else)
part of Office, and Outlook Express, Microsoft's news and email client
that used to be supplied as part of Windows - I think maybe up to XP.
Outlook did not do news, though (up to about 2000 I think) in some cases
(I used it at work) _appeared_ to, by using the Outlook Express
newsreader that was already on most Windows PCs. Outlook Express was
much criticised, but IMO was quite a reasonable mail and news client
(its main disadvantage, IMO, being that it encouraged top-posting, but
that's become the norm these days anyway). The executable file is IIRR
called msimn.exe (Microsoft integrated mail and news); if it runs on
your system at all (I don't know if it won't play with 64-bit Windows),
it may still be usable - it won't have the security capability some
servers may require, but stunnel (etc.) would cure that. But if you
haven't used a news client at all before, I'd probably not recommend it.
>
>Wikipedia has a list of internet newsreaders. To repeat the point I
>made in the previous post, binary groups are of no interest to us so
>there's no advantage in selecting one which features binary capabilities.

(I thought of that as mainly a matter of _server_ choice; it hadn't
occurred to me that there might be newsreader _client_ softwares that
didn't do binaries. I wouldn't eliminate ones that do do binaries - you
don't have to _use_ that capability, and it might be useful in the
future.)
>
>Of the Commercial group I've seen Forté Agent recommended in posts in
>the past but have no experience. In the FOSS selection SeaMonkey is
>what I use. It's the continuation of the old Netscape as a combined
>browser and mail/news/RSS client. It continued in development after
>Firefox was split out as a stand-alone browser. Thunderbird was also
>split out as a stand-alone email/news/rss client. SM and TB share a
>lot of their code but recently TB has changed its user interface to a
>tab-oriented version. Sylpheed and its successor Claws present the
>classic Netscape interface so although I haven't looked at them my
>expectation is that they'll be similar in setting up a news feed.
>
>I'll leave you to select and install your own choice. You've already
>signed up with a service as per my previous post, haven't you? If you
>haven't we'll not get much further until you have.

I think some servers terminate your account if inactive for a while; on
the whole the "while" is probably long enough for it not to be
important, but in view of the closing of GG, there are going to be a lot
of new signups, so I fear some of the server operators may - at least
temporarily - shorten the inactivity timeout, for the next month or
three at least.

Arguably, it's a lot easier to set up access to a news server if you
have a news client software ready to enter things (mainly username and
password) into. So it _might_ be better to select and install one first.
There are advantages both ways round.
>
>The next section is a blow-by-blow account of setting up a newly
>installed TBird.

[Snipped as it looks great and I haven't done one recently.]
[]
>You should initially get a dialog box about the number of headers on
>the server. Currently mine, for s.g.medieval, stands at over 163,000.
>There is an option to download all of them and another, preselected, to
>download the last N where N defaults to 500 but can be changed. Think
>very carefully whether you want to download the full collection. If
>you're moving over from GG you'll have seen recent messages. The last
>500 will probably be more than enough so tick mark the reast as read
>and click OK.

There will also be settings on whether it just shows you unread posts,
shows you all but puts unread in bold, whether it shows them as a list
or threaded, and many other features. Thunderbird also has the ability
to incorporate add-ons written by other people that give you various
features; many of these seem very desirable, but be wary (in particular,
you can come to rely on something that is really an add-on but you
forget that it is, and may or may not continue to work after a TB
update. Though you can always turn off TB updates [I think - you
certainly used to be able to]).
[]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too
dark to read." - Groucho Marx

J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> Yes, the term "usenet" isn't necessarily known even by many of those who
> use it; they tend to talk about "news" or "newsgroups".

As you use PlusNet you'll probably be aware that it's really GigaNews
being resold by them. You'll probably also be aware that every couple
of years or so they seem to forget about each other and authentication
fails. When that happens those who haven't heard any of the terms
usually include the PlusNet helpdesk although they then manage to find
someone who has. :)

J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> Outlook Express was much criticised, but IMO was quite a reasonable mail
> and news client (its main disadvantage, IMO, being that it encouraged
> top-posting, but that's become the norm these days anyway)
Its encouragement of top-posting is probably responsible for it becoming
the norm in which case it has a lot to answer for. But its main
disadvantage from my PoV was that it didn't run on Linux. Or maybe that
was an advantage.

Ian

On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 11:56:45 +0000
Ian Goddard <ian_ng@austonley.org.uk> wrote:

> Hans Vogels wrote:
> > Op maandag 15 januari 2024 om 18:21:19 UTC+1 schreef Ian Goddard:
> >> Brotherly Lover wrote:
> >>> Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder
> >>> whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have
> >>> found a new hangout.
> >> No, we just have the old one. Usenet
> >> .
> >> Read and understand this carefully:
> >> You do not need Google Groups.
> >
> > Hello Ian,
> >
> > I understand the concern of the original poster as it touched my
> > feeling aswell. Ever since I first found SGM in 2003 I have used
> > Google (or something before that) to follow and read SGM. I
> > connected it through a bookmark. Being a Dutchman the name Usenet
> > does not ring a bell or custom.
> >
> > Can you explain a dummy how to connect to Usenet to get to SGM?
>
> That's a good question. I'll cross-post it to other groups as there
> will be others who want to know that.
>
> You will need two things, a service provider (or server or feed) and
> a Usenet client (or newsreader).
>
> First the server.
>
> One thing to know is that there isn't and never was some master news
> server controlling the rest. No, Not even Google. The system
> started with US university server operators arranging to link with
> each other, neighbour to neighbour by modem on phone line. This was
> even before they had Internet or its predecessor, DARPANet let alone
> before Google existed*. They would connect at intervals and pass
> batches of files, including mail and news. to each other. News files
> were passed from server to server so that a news item starting out on
> one server would permeate to the rest. Once it became available the
> internet replaced dial-up lines. All servers were equal except
> possibly in the variety of groups they would support and the length
> of time they would retain messages for their users to read. That is
> still the situation today - whichever one you choose has no more and
> no less status than any other.
>
> Another thing to know is that the original news consised of text
> messages. That's what the original servers handled. Eventually binary
> news came into being. AFAICS they are largely used to shunt around
> media files, very likely pirated or worse. Soc.genealogy groups are
> still text only so there's no value in using a server which supports
> binary groups. Text only is good enough and, given that binary files
> are larger, text only groups are likely to be cheaper, even supported
> by donations only.

Eternal September is a good option, though if you're used to using a
web interface then paying for Easynews might be the better option.

That said, I'm trying to find a half decent web based news client to
interface with my news server. I thought there were a few but they seem
few and far between and not updated.

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:05:53 +0000, Ian Goddard
<ian_ng@austonley.org.uk> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:

>Of the Commercial group I've seen Forté Agent recommended in posts in
>the past but have no experience. In the FOSS selection SeaMonkey is

I use Forte Agent for a while. My version is dated 2002 and is still
working !

There were/is 2 versions : Free Agent and Forté Agent. Free Agent will
support only newsgroups and Forté Agent is also an email reader.

You can filter Usenet by the address or subject line but not by the
content but the new versions may (I don't know but be sure I should
give it a try !). Messages are kept on the computer so you can
archive them yourself.

My only problem is that I don't know if I can switch to a new version
and still keep my 10,000s perhaps 100,000s emails and usenet messages
I have !

Denis

--
Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/
French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/
Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790

On 01/16/2024 10:27 AM, Ian Goddard wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> Yes, the term "usenet" isn't necessarily known even by many of those
>> who use it; they tend to talk about "news" or "newsgroups".
>
> As you use PlusNet you'll probably be aware that it's really GigaNews
> being resold by them.  You'll probably also be aware that every couple
> of years or so they seem to forget about each other and authentication
> fails.  When that happens those who haven't heard any of the terms
> usually include the PlusNet helpdesk although they then manage to find
> someone who has. :)
I use Thunderbird as I can subscribe to multiple newsgroups. If one has
problems I can easily switch to another.
Thunderbird in someways is equivalent to the major time management
programs. You it gives you a calendar that you can schedule task and
events. You can send invitations to other users including outlook and
similar programs.
You have a full email and newsgroups services. Because it is email
based, you subscribe to the newsgroups that provide text only services
and text and image.
It can be modified easily with scripts and plugins to do different task.
With all of this, Thunderbird it is easily to learn and use and FREE.
While news.eternal-September.org is my primary news server, I have
paganini.bofh.team set up news.solani.org.
Here are more possibilities
https://www.reddit.com/r/usenet/wiki/providers/

On 16/01/2024 15:30, Ian Goddard wrote:
> Its encouragement of top-posting is probably responsible for it becoming
> the norm in which case it has a lot to answer for.  But its main
> disadvantage from my PoV was that it didn't run on Linux.  Or maybe that
> was an advantage.

At one time half the posts on USENET seemed to be people complaining
about others 'top posting'.

In message <uo6lmt$1j5ej$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:33:49,
knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> writes
[]
>I use Thunderbird as I can subscribe to multiple newsgroups. If one
>has problems I can easily switch to another.
[]
Did you mean news _servers_? (Many newsreader can use multiple
news_groups_; many can use multiple news_servers_ too, though may show
the same 'group when drawn from two or more servers in different ways.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...

On 16 Jan 2024 in soc.genealogy.britain, Ian Goddard wrote:

> I'm not sure about Outlook but I doubt it will provide news.

Outlook WILL NOT provide news. The mercifully end-of-lifed Outlook
Express used to. (Outlook and Outlook Express, in spite of the similarity
of names, never were the same program.)

Nice writeup, by the way.

--
Joe Makowiec
http://makowiec.org/
Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

In message <XnsB0FC5BC9029BmakowiecatnycapdotrE@95.217.65.137> at Wed,
17 Jan 2024 14:01:20, Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> writes
>On 16 Jan 2024 in soc.genealogy.britain, Ian Goddard wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure about Outlook but I doubt it will provide news.
>
>Outlook WILL NOT provide news. The mercifully end-of-lifed Outlook
>Express used to. (Outlook and Outlook Express, in spite of the similarity
>of names, never were the same program.)
>
>Nice writeup, by the way.
>
Outlook, at least in the form I used it at work, _appeared_ to provide
news; I think it did so by using OE, which was on the machine anyway.
(We learnt not to mention news when talking to the - in-house, corporate
- helpdesk.)

OE wasn't as bad as many painted it - especially if used with
OE-quotefix, by IIRR Dominic Jain. (He also created an Outlook Quotefix,
which sadly stopped working with Outlook after some point - about 2000,
IIRR.)

Sorry, this is getting OT for genealogy. Back to original question - no,
this group (not sure which - this thread is now in three 'groups) will
stay where it is, just Google Groups will stop carrying it; it will
remain on the servers that were carrying it before - you'll just need to
sign up with a newsserver and install a newsreader to access it on them
(for reasons I've already given, I'd recommend Thunderbird - especially
if you're already using it for mail).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I'm too lazy to have a bigger ego. - James May, RT 2016/1/23-29

On 1/16/2024 2:32 PM, Denis Beauregard wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:05:53 +0000, Ian Goddard
> <ian_ng@austonley.org.uk> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
>
>> Of the Commercial group I've seen Forté Agent recommended in posts in
>> the past but have no experience. In the FOSS selection SeaMonkey is
>
> I use Forte Agent for a while. My version is dated 2002 and is still
> working !
>
> There were/is 2 versions : Free Agent and Forté Agent. Free Agent will
> support only newsgroups and Forté Agent is also an email reader.
>
> You can filter Usenet by the address or subject line but not by the
> content but the new versions may (I don't know but be sure I should
> give it a try !). Messages are kept on the computer so you can
> archive them yourself.
>
> My only problem is that I don't know if I can switch to a new version
> and still keep my 10,000s perhaps 100,000s emails and usenet messages
> I have !
>
>
> Denis
>

I just set up my Thunderbird with eternal-september access, and I am
testing the application. Anyone see this? Thank you!

Darrell

On 1/16/2024 2:32 PM, Denis Beauregard wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:05:53 +0000, Ian Goddard
> <ian_ng@austonley.org.uk> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
>
>> Of the Commercial group I've seen Forté Agent recommended in posts in
>> the past but have no experience. In the FOSS selection SeaMonkey is
>
> I use Forte Agent for a while. My version is dated 2002 and is still
> working !
>
> There were/is 2 versions : Free Agent and Forté Agent. Free Agent will
> support only newsgroups and Forté Agent is also an email reader.
>
> You can filter Usenet by the address or subject line but not by the
> content but the new versions may (I don't know but be sure I should
> give it a try !). Messages are kept on the computer so you can
> archive them yourself.
>
> My only problem is that I don't know if I can switch to a new version
> and still keep my 10,000s perhaps 100,000s emails and usenet messages
> I have !
>
>
> Denis
>

I just set up my Thunderbird with eternal-september access, and I am
testing the application. Anyone see this? Thank you!

Darrell

Darrell Larocque wrote:
> On 1/16/2024 2:32 PM, Denis Beauregard wrote:
%><
>
> I just set up my Thunderbird with eternal-september access, and I am
> testing the application. Anyone see this? Thank you!
>
> Darrell
>

Yes, but for some reason you're getting a double posting. I wonder if
gmail has something to do with it because the postings have two
different message IDs from gmail.com.

Ian