On 1/18/2024 5:41 AM, Ian Goddard wrote:
> Darrell Larocque wrote:
>> On 1/16/2024 2:32 PM, Denis Beauregard wrote:
> %><
>>
>> I just set up my Thunderbird with eternal-september access, and I am
>> testing the application. Anyone see this? Thank you!
>>
>> Darrell
>>
>
> Yes, but for some reason you're getting a double posting.  I wonder if
> gmail has something to do with it because the postings have two
> different message IDs from gmail.com.
>
> Ian

I just saw this. Thank you, I think it is all sorted now!

Darrell

Darrell Larocque wrote:
> On 1/18/2024 5:41 AM, Ian Goddard wrote:
>> Darrell Larocque wrote:
>>> On 1/16/2024 2:32 PM, Denis Beauregard wrote:
>> %><
>>>
>>> I just set up my Thunderbird with eternal-september access, and I am
>>> testing the application. Anyone see this? Thank you!
>>>
>>> Darrell
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but for some reason you're getting a double posting.  I wonder if
>> gmail has something to do with it because the postings have two
>> different message IDs from gmail.com.
>>
>> Ian
>
> I just saw this. Thank you, I think it is all sorted now!
>
> Darrell
>
>
It seems to be.

Ian

Le Wed, 17 Jan 2024 19:57:41 -0500, Darrell Larocque
<frenchconnection1973@gmail.com> écrivait dans soc.genealogy.medieval:

>I just set up my Thunderbird with eternal-september access, and I am
>testing the application. Anyone see this? Thank you!

I see it ! And if you upload from this server, you should too !

Denis

--
Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/
French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/
Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790

Denis Beauregard wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:05:53 +0000, Ian Goddard
> <ian_ng@austonley.org.uk> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
>
>> Of the Commercial group I've seen Forté Agent recommended in posts in
>> the past but have no experience. In the FOSS selection SeaMonkey is
>
> I use Forte Agent for a while. My version is dated 2002 and is still
> working !
>
> There were/is 2 versions : Free Agent and Forté Agent. Free Agent will
> support only newsgroups and Forté Agent is also an email reader.
>
> You can filter Usenet by the address or subject line but not by the
> content but the new versions may (I don't know but be sure I should
> give it a try !). Messages are kept on the computer so you can
> archive them yourself.
>
> My only problem is that I don't know if I can switch to a new version
> and still keep my 10,000s perhaps 100,000s emails and usenet messages
> I have !
>
>
> Denis
>

They have a support page so you could ask them. But back everything up
before you update!

Ian

Denis Beauregard wrote:

> Le Wed, 17 Jan 2024 19:57:41 -0500, Darrell Larocque
> <frenchconnection1973@gmail.com> écrivait dans soc.genealogy.medieval:

>>I just set up my Thunderbird with eternal-september access, and I am
>>testing the application. Anyone see this? Thank you!

> I see it ! And if you upload from this server, you should too !

I see it too. Where did you download Thunderbird from? Does installing it
add anything else to your computer or alter stuff like corporate freeware
often does?

I'm thinking of using it as a backup option too. I fear that if those
behind this ongoing attack were able to overwhelm google, how can these
smaller public servers survive, even if after feb deadline they can no longer
post from google groups. They or their bots are probably signing upto
other servers right now to continue their campaign of disruption.

mike

On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 9:10:52 AM UTC-8, miked wrote:
> I see it too. Where did you download Thunderbird from? Does installing it
> add anything else to your computer or alter stuff like corporate freeware
> often does?

It can be downloaded from https://www.thunderbird.net/

"Thunderbird is funded by user donations. We don’t collect personal data, sell ads in your inbox, or secretly train AI with your private conversations. Thunderbird is open source. As part of the Mozilla family you can be confident we always put your privacy and security first."

Thunderbird, along with its sister-program Firefox, were first developed by volunteers as donation-funded freeware more than 3 decades ago, and have never played the types of games you are concerned about. I never got around to installing it on my current system, but with a Firefox install, the only potential modification was to ask - and they did ask rather than just doing it by default - whether I wanted it set as default browser, and whether I wanted to import bookmarks from the browser I was then using. Installation of Thunderbird should be equally innocuous.

taf

On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 16:56:53 +0000
Ian Goddard <ian_ng@austonley.org.uk> wrote:

> Denis Beauregard wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:05:53 +0000, Ian Goddard
> > <ian_ng@austonley.org.uk> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
> >
> >> Of the Commercial group I've seen Forté Agent recommended in posts
> >> in the past but have no experience. In the FOSS selection
> >> SeaMonkey is
> >
> > I use Forte Agent for a while. My version is dated 2002 and is still
> > working !
> >
> > There were/is 2 versions : Free Agent and Forté Agent. Free Agent
> > will support only newsgroups and Forté Agent is also an email
> > reader.
> >
> > You can filter Usenet by the address or subject line but not by the
> > content but the new versions may (I don't know but be sure I should
> > give it a try !). Messages are kept on the computer so you can
> > archive them yourself.
> >
> > My only problem is that I don't know if I can switch to a new
> > version and still keep my 10,000s perhaps 100,000s emails and
> > usenet messages I have !
> >
> >
> > Denis
> >
>
> They have a support page so you could ask them. But back everything
> up before you update!
>
> Ian

Once you download an article from the server using most news readers,
they'll stay on your computer. Most of these were created in the time
of dialup, you would download a list of newsgroups. Disconnect. Select
all the groups you are interested in, connect, and download headers.
You can then choose messages to download based on the header, or you
can download all messages in a group. these days you might as well grab
all the articles in a group. I think Free Agent is still only valid for
30 days before you have to buy a copy. There are free options like PAM,
Claws-mail and a few others but Free Agent or Agent are worth the money
if you're a serious usenet user.

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

In message <20240119183120.26a4f05b@wibble.sysadmininc.com> at Fri, 19
Jan 2024 18:31:20, Nigel Reed <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> writes
[]
>Once you download an article from the server using most news readers,
>they'll stay on your computer. Most of these were created in the time

Yes and no. Several newsreaders implement "expiry", same as the news
servers - i. e. they discard posts a predefined time after downloading
(or over a defined age based on the posting date); most (I think all)
allow you to mark a post as "keep", i. e. to be kept not expired. The
one I use allows me to set expiry per 'group.

>of dialup, you would download a list of newsgroups. Disconnect. Select
>all the groups you are interested in, connect, and download headers.

I think downloading the list of 'groups available isn't done every
connect, but only from time to time. Some - I think earlier versions of
Thunderbird were like this - you had to manually trigger it to get a new
list, which usually came to light when someone posted that they couldn't
see a certain 'group, at which point others reminded them to ask for a
new list. I think some server/client combinations had a way of finding
out which new groups had been added recently (it's coming back to me: I
now remember using one where it told me of each new 'group, and asked me
if I wanted to take it. Became impractical when huge numbers of 'groups
were being added, but would work again nowadays).

>You can then choose messages to download based on the header, or you
>can download all messages in a group. these days you might as well grab

Some newsreader clients could download headers only or headers and
bodies; the one I use lets me choose that on a per 'group basis. It was
mainly to cut down on online time and storage; nowadays, as Nigel says,
I can't see any advantage in a header-only approach.

>all the articles in a group. I think Free Agent is still only valid for
>30 days before you have to buy a copy. There are free options like PAM,
>Claws-mail and a few others but Free Agent or Agent are worth the money
>if you're a serious usenet user.
>
I'm pretty certain Free Agent - some versions, anyway - operates
indefinitely, as a newsreader at least; Agent just offers more features
(might have been mail). Maybe Free Agent offers you full Agent features
for a short period then falls back.
>
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

live your dash. ... On your tombstone, there's the date you're born and the
date you die - and in between there's a dash. - a friend quoted by Dustin
Hoffman in Radio Times, 5-11 January 2013

J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> Some newsreader clients could download headers only or headers and
> bodies; the one I use lets me choose that on a per 'group basis. It was
> mainly to cut down on online time and storage; nowadays, as Nigel says,
> I can't see any advantage in a header-only approach.

I doubt that anyone who has been using Google Groups will have been
saving message bodies anyway. Basically there are 3 approaches:

- download & save the whole post for which you need something like Forte

- download the whole, save headers only and reload the body if you want
to view it again later for which a combined email/newsreader such as
Thunderbird will be satisfactory*

- read online, saving nothing without manual cut and paste for which
easyNews appears to be the solution

Different approaches for different user preferences.

Ian

* SeaMonkey, based on the same codebase and Thunderbird, had an option
on the Servers and storage dialog for saving messages but it seems to be
a common dialog used with mail configuration and the setting isn't
implemented for news. I'd have thought it would be possible to have
done so and may have been omitted for storage reasons. Perhaps it could
be restored if a feature request were to be made to the TB development team.

Nigel Reed wrote:
> That said, I'm trying to find a half decent web based news client to
> interface with my news server. I thought there were a few but they seem
> few and far between and not updated.

The protocol s for the web (HTTP) and news (NNTP) are very different.
It would be up to the server to choose one or the other and for the
first a web-browser is the appropriate client and for the second a
newsreader. I can't imagine how you'd provide an HTTP interface to and
NNTP server other than by some add-in to a web server providing a
translation layer.

Ian

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 6:57:59 PM UTC-5, taf wrote:
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 2:04:48 PM UTC-8, Brotherly Lover wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 11:20:26 AM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
> > > A domingo, 14 de janeiro de 2024 à(s) 01:50:09 UTC, Brotherly Lover escreveu:
> > > > Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout.
> > > You can access the newsgroup through another Usenet client.
> > Google Groups says that I can continue to access the historical files here. Will posts continue elsewhere? And, if so, where?
> The groups itself will continue in its original form, as the Usenet group soc.genealogy.medieval. It's just that Google Groups will no longer archive it or serve as a platform to post to it. To participate, one will need to use a Usenet news server, which some ISPs still provide, or there are free services (a post here in November suggested news.eternal-september.org). Newer posts will likely be archived at narkive.com.
>
> taf
taf, I thought I'd try Thunderbird. Do you have experience with it? You've never steered me wrong with anything.

Another quick question, which might repeat something I asked about a good ways back: when foeffees were named/cited, for example in a marriage contract, were these often friends or (at least roughly) social equals of the person initiating the contract, and/or could they also be trusted social superiors in the region? If the latter, might an area's "pillars" be weighed down with foeffment responsibilities, if many people of both equal and lower status wanted them to take that role?

I assume that foeffees had to agree to serve in that role (much like the executor of an estate) before any contract was executed, i.e., you couldn't just name them, as any necessary action that arose would require their time and possibly legal entanglements?

On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 8:49:29 AM UTC-8, Jinny Wallerstedt wrote:
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 6:57:59 PM UTC-5, taf wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 2:04:48 PM UTC-8, Brotherly Lover wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 11:20:26 AM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
> > > > A domingo, 14 de janeiro de 2024 à(s) 01:50:09 UTC, Brotherly Lover escreveu:
> > > > > Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout.
> > > > You can access the newsgroup through another Usenet client.
> > > Google Groups says that I can continue to access the historical files here. Will posts continue elsewhere? And, if so, where?
> > The groups itself will continue in its original form, as the Usenet group soc.genealogy.medieval. It's just that Google Groups will no longer archive it or serve as a platform to post to it. To participate, one will need to use a Usenet news server, which some ISPs still provide, or there are free services (a post here in November suggested news.eternal-september.org). Newer posts will likely be archived at narkive.com.
> >
> > taf
> taf, I thought I'd try Thunderbird. Do you have experience with it? You've never steered me wrong with anything.

I used T-bird back in the 90s, and had no problems with it at the time. I ended up switching to Google Groups primarily because of the utility of archive searching and posting from the same platform, even though GG posting had several aspects that I found very annoying. I will likely go back to T-bird.

> Another quick question, which might repeat something I asked about a good ways back: when foeffees were named/cited, for example in a marriage contract, were these often friends or (at least roughly) social equals of the person initiating the contract, and/or could they also be trusted social superiors in the region? If the latter, might an area's "pillars" be weighed down with foeffment responsibilities, if many people of both equal and lower status wanted them to take that role?
>
> I assume that foeffees had to agree to serve in that role (much like the executor of an estate) before any contract was executed, i.e., you couldn't just name them, as any necessary action that arose would require their time and possibly legal entanglements?

I assume you are talking only about a specific type of enfeoffment, whereby land was enfeoffed to a person or persons who were to act in trust for the landholder or his designated heir(s), for a set period of time. In this case, one would absolutely only do so with the agreement of the person/people involved, and only those one trusted, - friend, relative, respected lawyer, local lord - because you always ran the risk that they would simply take all the profits for themselves. The primary reason for such enfeoffment was to shield the person it was actually intended to benefit from some sort of exposure (royal oversight, confiscation, ownership dispute, etc) or simply from the burden of management (common with widows and children). There could be some compensation built in (payment or direct enfeoffment of a small portion of the property) for the service. From the perspective of the feoffees, they wouldn't take on the responsibility if they weren't getting something in return, which could range from direct payment, to the opportunity to siphon off some of the profits, to more subtle benefits - social networking, exchange of favors, reinforcing family ties, or even optimizing economies of scale with their own neighboring property, etc. And specifically with regard to social betters, they might take on these responsibilities to reinforce their status as patrons of the local gentry, even if it overextended them at times, because one must maintain appearances.

taf

In message <SOScnTa9TczVdzb4nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk> at Sat,
20 Jan 2024 15:44:07, Ian Goddard <ian_ng@austonley.org.uk> writes
>J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> Some newsreader clients could download headers only or headers and
>>bodies; the one I use lets me choose that on a per 'group basis. It
>>was mainly to cut down on online time and storage; nowadays, as Nigel
>>says, I can't see any advantage in a header-only approach.
>
>I doubt that anyone who has been using Google Groups will have been
>saving message bodies anyway. Basically there are 3 approaches:

I imagine any web-based interface like Google Groups doesn't save
anything on the user's machine, other than possibly MIDs. (Well, it does
as long as they keep the "webpage" open, but webpage contents aren't
normally thought of as "saved", though they're obviously on the user's
machine for him/her to read them.)
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

By the very definition of "news," we hear very little about the dominant
threats to our lives, and the most about the rarest, including terror.
"LibertyMcG" alias Brian P. McGlinchey, 2013-7-23

On 20/01/2024 16:44, Ian Goddard wrote:
>
> * SeaMonkey, based on the same codebase and Thunderbird, had an option
> on the Servers and storage dialog for saving messages but it seems to be
> a common dialog used with mail configuration and the setting isn't
> implemented for news.  I'd have thought it would be possible to have
> done so and may have been omitted for storage reasons.  Perhaps it could
> be restored if a feature request were to be made to the TB development
> team.
The ImportExportToolsNG extension for Thunderbird has the option to
export selected newsgroup messages in several different formats; some of
which (mbox, EML) can be imported.
The ImportExportTools extension works with SeaMonkey
It is possible to forward newsgroup messages to an e-mail address
https://narkive.com is a newsgroup archive (starting from late 2009)

On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 07:30:18 +0000
"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> In message <20240119183120.26a4f05b@wibble.sysadmininc.com> at Fri,
> 19 Jan 2024 18:31:20, Nigel Reed <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> writes
> []
> >Once you download an article from the server using most news readers,
> >they'll stay on your computer. Most of these were created in the
> >time
>
> Yes and no. Several newsreaders implement "expiry", same as the news
> servers - i. e. they discard posts a predefined time after
> downloading (or over a defined age based on the posting date); most
> (I think all) allow you to mark a post as "keep", i. e. to be kept
> not expired. The one I use allows me to set expiry per 'group.

While most newsreaders can expire articles, I'm pretty sure you can
configure them not to if you wish.

> >of dialup, you would download a list of newsgroups. Disconnect.
> >Select all the groups you are interested in, connect, and download
> >headers.
>
> I think downloading the list of 'groups available isn't done every
> connect, but only from time to time. Some - I think earlier versions
> of Thunderbird were like this - you had to manually trigger it to get
> a new list, which usually came to light when someone posted that they
> couldn't see a certain 'group, at which point others reminded them to
> ask for a new list. I think some server/client combinations had a way
> of finding out which new groups had been added recently (it's coming
> back to me: I now remember using one where it told me of each new
> 'group, and asked me if I wanted to take it. Became impractical when
> huge numbers of 'groups were being added, but would work again
> nowadays).

You can use NEWGROUPS and it will fetch a list of new newsgroup since a
given date. Most newsreaders will keep a note internally of the last
newsgroup or newgroups fetch.

>
> >You can then choose messages to download based on the header, or you
> >can download all messages in a group. these days you might as well
> >grab
>
> Some newsreader clients could download headers only or headers and
> bodies; the one I use lets me choose that on a per 'group basis. It
> was mainly to cut down on online time and storage; nowadays, as Nigel
> says, I can't see any advantage in a header-only approach.

Yeah, it was just dialup users who would take advantage of that. These
days the amount of time to download news is negligible.

> >all the articles in a group. I think Free Agent is still only valid
> >for 30 days before you have to buy a copy. There are free options
> >like PAM, Claws-mail and a few others but Free Agent or Agent are
> >worth the money if you're a serious usenet user.
> >
> I'm pretty certain Free Agent - some versions, anyway - operates
> indefinitely, as a newsreader at least; Agent just offers more
> features (might have been mail). Maybe Free Agent offers you full
> Agent features for a short period then falls back.

I think you have to go back a long long way to get a version that works
without expiry, or maybe even the old versions did and left you with a
limited but useful client.

I finally convinced a fellow sysop to work on a usenet client for the
BBS that'll have a limited but useful set of features for accessing
newsgroups. Web access is still a bit of a mystery, unfortunately.

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 18:21:21 +0000
"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> In message <SOScnTa9TczVdzb4nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk> at
> Sat, 20 Jan 2024 15:44:07, Ian Goddard <ian_ng@austonley.org.uk>
> writes
> >J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> >> Some newsreader clients could download headers only or headers and
> >>bodies; the one I use lets me choose that on a per 'group basis. It
> >>was mainly to cut down on online time and storage; nowadays, as
> >>Nigel says, I can't see any advantage in a header-only approach.
> >
> >I doubt that anyone who has been using Google Groups will have been
> >saving message bodies anyway. Basically there are 3 approaches:
>
> I imagine any web-based interface like Google Groups doesn't save
> anything on the user's machine, other than possibly MIDs. (Well, it
> does as long as they keep the "webpage" open, but webpage contents
> aren't normally thought of as "saved", though they're obviously on
> the user's machine for him/her to read them.)
> []

This is one downside to using a web interface. There's no real way to
keep what you've seen unless you save the webpage and all it's
wonderful HTML junk as well.

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

In message <20240121041126.75987620@wibble.sysadmininc.com> at Sun, 21
Jan 2024 04:11:26, Nigel Reed <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> writes
>On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 18:21:21 +0000
>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
[]
>> I imagine any web-based interface like Google Groups doesn't save
>> anything on the user's machine, other than possibly MIDs. (Well, it
>> does as long as they keep the "webpage" open, but webpage contents
>> aren't normally thought of as "saved", though they're obviously on
>> the user's machine for him/her to read them.)
>> []
>
>This is one downside to using a web interface. There's no real way to
>keep what you've seen unless you save the webpage and all it's
>wonderful HTML junk as well.
>
Browsers used to have an option to save as just text; the Chrome I have
(last version that works with W7) no longer has that option. I've just
checked and Firefox (still being updated, I think; I certainly let it
"up"grade itself recently) still does have that option. Not that it's
anywhere near ideal - you'd still get all the framing junk - but at
least (I hope) it'd remove the HTML tags. But a non-web client is of
course far superior.

What to use if you're out with only a 'phone, though, I don't know:
apparently newstap works on an iPad, but I don't know how easy it'd be
to use on a iPhone.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"This situation absolutely requires a really futile and stoopid gesture be done
on somebody's part." "We're just the guys to do it." Eric "Otter" Stratton (Tim
Matheson) and John "Bluto" Blutarsky (John Belushi) - N. L's Animal House
(1978)

In message <20240121041015.4f6d1a15@wibble.sysadmininc.com> at Sun, 21
Jan 2024 04:10:15, Nigel Reed <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> writes
>On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 07:30:18 +0000
>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <20240119183120.26a4f05b@wibble.sysadmininc.com> at Fri,
>> 19 Jan 2024 18:31:20, Nigel Reed <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> writes
>> []
>> >Once you download an article from the server using most news readers,
>> >they'll stay on your computer. Most of these were created in the
>> >time
>>
>> Yes and no. Several newsreaders implement "expiry", same as the news
>> servers - i. e. they discard posts a predefined time after
>> downloading (or over a defined age based on the posting date); most
>> (I think all) allow you to mark a post as "keep", i. e. to be kept
>> not expired. The one I use allows me to set expiry per 'group.
>
>While most newsreaders can expire articles, I'm pretty sure you can
>configure them not to if you wish.

I get the impression from what I've seen discussed recently (meaning in
the last decade or two!), that _not_ expiring is the default setting.
Personally, I like expiry (as long as I have the option to mark a post
"keep"): not from a storage capacity viewpoint, but just that I find it
easier to find "kept" articles - lots of old ones would just clutter
things up. But, everyone's mileage will vary, as they say (originally in
USA).
[]
>You can use NEWGROUPS and it will fetch a list of new newsgroup since a
>given date. Most newsreaders will keep a note internally of the last
>newsgroup or newgroups fetch.
>
Makes sense.
>>
>> >You can then choose messages to download based on the header, or you
>> >can download all messages in a group. these days you might as well
>> >grab
>>
>> Some newsreader clients could download headers only or headers and
>> bodies; the one I use lets me choose that on a per 'group basis. It
>> was mainly to cut down on online time and storage; nowadays, as Nigel
>> says, I can't see any advantage in a header-only approach.
>
>Yeah, it was just dialup users who would take advantage of that. These
>days the amount of time to download news is negligible.

I suppose if you take binary 'groups, it - and/or the storage capacity
requirements - might not, but most things that used to be distributed
that way (mostly pirated videos and software, I think!) are available by
more efficient means.
>
>> >all the articles in a group. I think Free Agent is still only valid
>> >for 30 days before you have to buy a copy. There are free options
>> >like PAM, Claws-mail and a few others but Free Agent or Agent are
>> >worth the money if you're a serious usenet user.
>> >
>> I'm pretty certain Free Agent - some versions, anyway - operates
>> indefinitely, as a newsreader at least; Agent just offers more
>> features (might have been mail). Maybe Free Agent offers you full
>> Agent features for a short period then falls back.
>
>I think you have to go back a long long way to get a version that works
>without expiry, or maybe even the old versions did and left you with a
>limited but useful client.

Ah, you're probably right. When I was paying attention to what others
were using, I got the strong impression that Free Agent as a newsreader
lasted indefinitely, though paying for Agent got you something extra (I
forget what). But that was probably decades ago! (I didn't realise Agent
or Free Agent were still being updated; I thought they froze ages ago.)
>
>I finally convinced a fellow sysop to work on a usenet client for the
>BBS that'll have a limited but useful set of features for accessing
>newsgroups. Web access is still a bit of a mystery, unfortunately.
>
Ray who runs eternal-september is working on a web interface. Is that
the person you mean? Though I still think a proper client is a better
way to access news. But I do take the point that - unless a proper
client exists for 'phones - it doesn't help you if you're out with only
a 'phone. (Though I can't think of many times when I'd need that rapid
access to usenet.)
>
>
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"This situation absolutely requires a really futile and stoopid gesture be done
on somebody's part." "We're just the guys to do it." Eric "Otter" Stratton (Tim
Matheson) and John "Bluto" Blutarsky (John Belushi) - N. L's Animal House
(1978)

On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 5:50:09 PM UTC-8, Brotherly Lover wrote:
> Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout.

test

The impression I get is that *new* postings here, through Google Groups will still be allowed.

Does someone get the impression that other then severing the link to usenet, this group will be archived such that new postings will no longer be allowed?

On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 10:55:32 AM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> The impression I get is that *new* postings here, through Google Groups will still be allowed.
>
> Does someone get the impression that other then severing the link to usenet, this group will be archived such that new postings will no longer be allowed?

Since this has never been a Google group, just a Usenet gateway disguised as a Google group, I interpret the change as preventing all posting to the forum currently hosted on Google Groups under the name soc.genealogy.medieval. I don't envision them retasking the existing namespace to become a stand-alone Google Group, disconnected from the Usenet group of the same name. That is my interpretation.

On 23/01/2024 7:50 pm, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 5:50:09 PM UTC-8, Brotherly Lover wrote:
>> Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout.
>
> test

I can read it, and this is my test. Using Eternal September

On 1/20/2024 10:24 AM, taf wrote:
> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 8:49:29 AM UTC-8, Jinny Wallerstedt wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 6:57:59 PM UTC-5, taf wrote:
>>> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 2:04:48 PM UTC-8, Brotherly Lover wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 11:20:26 AM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
>>>>> A domingo, 14 de janeiro de 2024 à(s) 01:50:09 UTC, Brotherly Lover escreveu:
>>>>>> Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have found a new hangout.
>>>>> You can access the newsgroup through another Usenet client.
>>>> Google Groups says that I can continue to access the historical files here. Will posts continue elsewhere? And, if so, where?
>>> The groups itself will continue in its original form, as the Usenet group soc.genealogy.medieval. It's just that Google Groups will no longer archive it or serve as a platform to post to it. To participate, one will need to use a Usenet news server, which some ISPs still provide, or there are free services (a post here in November suggested news.eternal-september.org). Newer posts will likely be archived at narkive.com.
>>>
>>> taf
>> taf, I thought I'd try Thunderbird. Do you have experience with it? You've never steered me wrong with anything.
>
> I used T-bird back in the 90s, and had no problems with it at the time. I ended up switching to Google Groups primarily because of the utility of archive searching and posting from the same platform, even though GG posting had several aspects that I found very annoying. I will likely go back to T-bird.

For those interested in going down this Thunderbird/Eternal September
road, someone has prepared a step-by-step walk-through of the setup,
once you have Thunderbird installed on your computer:
https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_Usenet

I will just add that it was necessary for me to make a test post to one
of the Eternal September private groups before it would populate the
newsgroup choices with Usenet groups. Your results may vary.

taf

taf wrote:
%><
>
> For those interested in going down this Thunderbird/Eternal September
> road, someone has prepared a step-by-step walk-through of the setup,
> once you have Thunderbird installed on your computer:
> https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_Usenet

Can I emphasise to everyone the last sentence in Task 1.3:

Always use a new password when signing up to a new website so it can’t
be used elsewhere if it is found.

You have no control over how well some random website you sign up for
will guard their user ID and password combination. Sometimes they get
stolen end up being circulated by criminals and used to take over
accounts on sites where the same ID/password combination has been used.
It's reported this is how 23andMe was broken into.

What you can control is using a different password on each site so that
if the credentials are stolen from one site they won't work elsewhere.
So let me repeat that advice again:

Always use a new password when signing up to a new website so it can’t
be used elsewhere if it is found.

Ian

On 28/01/2024 07:46, taf wrote:
> On 1/20/2024 10:24 AM, taf wrote:
>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 8:49:29 AM UTC-8, Jinny Wallerstedt
>> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 6:57:59 PM UTC-5, taf wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 2:04:48 PM UTC-8, Brotherly Lover wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 11:20:26 AM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo
>>>>> Canedo wrote:
>>>>>> A domingo, 14 de janeiro de 2024 à(s) 01:50:09 UTC, Brotherly
>>>>>> Lover escreveu:
>>>>>>> Since Google Groups' death warrant has been signed, I wonder
>>>>>>> whether the smart people who follow soc.genealogy.medieval have
>>>>>>> found a new hangout.
>>>>>> You can access the newsgroup through another Usenet client.
>>>>> Google Groups says that I can continue to access the historical
>>>>> files here. Will posts continue elsewhere? And, if so, where?
>>>> The groups itself will continue in its original form, as the Usenet
>>>> group soc.genealogy.medieval. It's just that Google Groups will no
>>>> longer archive it or serve as a platform to post to it. To
>>>> participate, one will need to use a Usenet news server, which some
>>>> ISPs still provide, or there are free services (a post here in
>>>> November suggested news.eternal-september.org). Newer posts will
>>>> likely be archived at narkive.com.
>>>>
>>>> taf
>>> taf, I thought I'd try Thunderbird. Do you have experience with it?
>>> You've never steered me wrong with anything.
>>
>> I used T-bird back in the 90s, and had no problems with it at the
>> time. I ended up switching to Google Groups primarily because of the
>> utility of archive searching and posting from the same platform, even
>> though GG posting had several aspects that I found very annoying. I
>> will likely go back to T-bird.
>
> For those interested in going down this Thunderbird/Eternal September
> road, someone has prepared a step-by-step walk-through of the setup,
> once you have Thunderbird installed on your computer:
> https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_Usenet
>
> I will just add that it was necessary for me to make a test post to one
> of the Eternal September private groups before it would populate the
> newsgroup choices with Usenet groups. Your results may vary.
>
> taf

Thanks for explaining this taf. With Eternal September and Thunderbird I
found I had to tick a box "Always request authentication when connecting
to the server" in TB Tools > Account Settings > Server Settings to
populate the available newsgroup choices.