On 1/25/2024 12:20 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 10:14:47 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 1/25/2024 9:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/25/2024 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Agreed about buses in Mexico. Here, there's smell, noise,
>>>> vomit, periodic screaming matches and general filth. And
>>>> that was a decade ago.
>>>
>>> That must vary greatly by location. I vary rarely use buses,
>>> but I haven't seen nor heard of those problems on our local
>>> system. I have friends who are big fans of the system.
>>>
>>> I recall a bus ride in New Mexico (maybe Taos?) some years
>>> ago. We rode from a campground into the center of town. Not
>>> only was the bus very clean and precisely on time, but it
>>> became a social occasion. People on board were very friendly
>>> and conversation was lively and pleasant.
>>>
>>> Just thought I'd throw in a word for the _good_ tail of the
>>> normal curve!  ;-)
>>>
>>
>> That comports with my experiences in the late 1960s and
>> early 1970s but a lot has changed and not only on intercity
>> buses.
>
> Mass transit today is like wandering around among the cattle in a
> stock yard.

As with many devolutions, it's the population, not the train
system or bus system or airline system etc.

'Mass transit' encompasses a lot more than intercity buses.
Urban trains, for example, are extremely dangerous on some
routes at some times, while other routes and times are
merely dirty, loud, slow and obnoxious:

https://abc7chicago.com/mijawon-johnson-cta-red-line-train-south-loop/14298612/
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/25/2024 11:21 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/25/2024 9:37 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/25/2024 9:07 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> Bright Line review:
>>> https://onemileatatime.com/brightline-train-review/
>>>
>>> But that's a privately funded/managed system so measured on a
>>> different scale from public transport...
>>
>> We've used trains in Europe many times. Our only difficulties were
>> minor, and had to do with the fact we were taking bicycles with us,
>> and sometimes bicycle trailers.
>>
>> The French TGV was especially nice.
>>
>> Those governments are able to make mass transit work. For better or
>> worse, U.S. government is ~100% about subsidizing cars.
>>
>
> Our Federal government took over the auto industry with regulatory
> impediments, tax and tariff policy, labor influence and so on more than
> direct subsidies.

U.S. subsidies for car travel aren't direct to the manufacturers. They
are in the form of immense expenses on road construction and
improvements, including land acquisition costs, design costs,
enforcement costs, etc. It's very well known that gas tax pays only a
small fraction of highway costs.

U.S. transportation philosophy is to give extremely high priority to
moving automobiles. Any other method of surface transport gets crumbs,
whether walking, bicycling, buses, rail, whatever. Note that in most
city's shopping areas, simply walking is difficult to impossible.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/25/2024 12:27 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/25/2024 11:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/25/2024 9:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/25/2024 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Agreed about buses in Mexico. Here, there's smell,
>>>> noise, vomit, periodic screaming matches and general
>>>> filth. And that was a decade ago.
>>>
>>> That must vary greatly by location. I vary rarely use
>>> buses, but I haven't seen nor heard of those problems on
>>> our local system. I have friends who are big fans of the
>>> system.
>>>
>>> I recall a bus ride in New Mexico (maybe Taos?) some
>>> years ago. We rode from a campground into the center of
>>> town. Not only was the bus very clean and precisely on
>>> time, but it became a social occasion. People on board
>>> were very friendly and conversation was lively and pleasant.
>>>
>>> Just thought I'd throw in a word for the _good_ tail of
>>> the normal curve!  ;-)
>>>
>>
>> That comports with my experiences in the late 1960s and
>> early 1970s but a lot has changed and not only on
>> intercity buses.
>
> My visits to Portland, Oregon were mostly between 1995 and
> 2010. Buses, trolleys and light rail there all worked well
> for us. No problems with cleanliness or anything else except
> sometimes the light rail was pretty crowded.
>

As noted, a lot has changed:
https://www.kgw.com/article/news/crime/dead-stabbing-max-train-goose-hollow-sw-jefferson-street/283-86b99353-ef0a-44b0-8367-d9da384328d1

https://www.kptv.com/2023/09/12/family-friends-max-stabbing-victim-give-update-his-condition/
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/25/2024 1:57 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/25/2024 12:27 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/25/2024 11:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/25/2024 9:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 1/25/2024 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed about buses in Mexico. Here, there's smell, noise, vomit,
>>>>> periodic screaming matches and general filth. And that was a decade
>>>>> ago.
>>>>
>>>> That must vary greatly by location. I vary rarely use buses, but I
>>>> haven't seen nor heard of those problems on our local system. I have
>>>> friends who are big fans of the system.
>>>>
>>>> I recall a bus ride in New Mexico (maybe Taos?) some years ago. We
>>>> rode from a campground into the center of town. Not only was the bus
>>>> very clean and precisely on time, but it became a social occasion.
>>>> People on board were very friendly and conversation was lively and
>>>> pleasant.
>>>>
>>>> Just thought I'd throw in a word for the _good_ tail of the normal
>>>> curve!  ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> That comports with my experiences in the late 1960s and early 1970s
>>> but a lot has changed and not only on intercity buses.
>>
>> My visits to Portland, Oregon were mostly between 1995 and 2010.
>> Buses, trolleys and light rail there all worked well for us. No
>> problems with cleanliness or anything else except sometimes the light
>> rail was pretty crowded.
>>
>
> As noted, a lot has changed:
> https://www.kgw.com/article/news/crime/dead-stabbing-max-train-goose-hollow-sw-jefferson-street/283-86b99353-ef0a-44b0-8367-d9da384328d1
>
> https://www.kptv.com/2023/09/12/family-friends-max-stabbing-victim-give-update-his-condition/

Well, every normal curve does have two tails. What I'm finding online
says that it's almost always safe. Kind of like riding a bike.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/25/2024 3:26 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/25/2024 1:57 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/25/2024 12:27 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/25/2024 11:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 1/25/2024 9:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 1/25/2024 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed about buses in Mexico. Here, there's smell,
>>>>>> noise, vomit, periodic screaming matches and general
>>>>>> filth. And that was a decade ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> That must vary greatly by location. I vary rarely use
>>>>> buses, but I haven't seen nor heard of those problems
>>>>> on our local system. I have friends who are big fans of
>>>>> the system.
>>>>>
>>>>> I recall a bus ride in New Mexico (maybe Taos?) some
>>>>> years ago. We rode from a campground into the center of
>>>>> town. Not only was the bus very clean and precisely on
>>>>> time, but it became a social occasion. People on board
>>>>> were very friendly and conversation was lively and
>>>>> pleasant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just thought I'd throw in a word for the _good_ tail of
>>>>> the normal curve!  ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That comports with my experiences in the late 1960s and
>>>> early 1970s but a lot has changed and not only on
>>>> intercity buses.
>>>
>>> My visits to Portland, Oregon were mostly between 1995
>>> and 2010. Buses, trolleys and light rail there all worked
>>> well for us. No problems with cleanliness or anything
>>> else except sometimes the light rail was pretty crowded.
>>>
>>
>> As noted, a lot has changed:
>> https://www.kgw.com/article/news/crime/dead-stabbing-max-train-goose-hollow-sw-jefferson-street/283-86b99353-ef0a-44b0-8367-d9da384328d1
>>
>> https://www.kptv.com/2023/09/12/family-friends-max-stabbing-victim-give-update-his-condition/
>
> Well, every normal curve does have two tails. What I'm
> finding online says that it's almost always safe. Kind of
> like riding a bike.
>

Yes that's true.

I don't know about Portland mass transit (items linked were
aired on Seattle radio where I heard them) but in Chicago,
the various train lines are color coded and there's a
distinct risk differential from one to another,

https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/interactive-map-see-how-safe-or-dangerous-your-cta-station-ranks/2218313/

between segments on the same route and across time of day.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/25/2024 4:48 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/25/2024 3:26 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>> Well, every normal curve does have two tails. What I'm finding online
>> says that it's almost always safe. Kind of like riding a bike.
>>
>
> Yes that's true.
>
> I don't know about Portland mass transit (items linked were aired on
> Seattle radio where I heard them) but in Chicago, the various train
> lines are color coded and there's a distinct risk differential from one
> to another,
>
> https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/interactive-map-see-how-safe-or-dangerous-your-cta-station-ranks/2218313/
>
> between segments on the same route and across time of day.

I was part of a team that produced local area bike maps. These were to
give some guidance about which streets were more amenable or less
amenable to bicycling. Part of the motivation was that in many
instances, there were very pleasant but less known streets that were
excellent alternatives to busier arterials. Streets were color coded by
recommended level of rider expertise, red for expert, green for easy, etc.

The question came up: What should be done about "bad neighborhoods"?
Should they be marked red? The answer we agreed on was that we were
rating bicycling, not crime. So there are green-rated streets passing
through neighborhoods I'd prefer to avoid at 1 AM on a Friday or Saturday.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 16:56:49 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/25/2024 4:48 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/25/2024 3:26 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, every normal curve does have two tails. What I'm finding online
>>> says that it's almost always safe. Kind of like riding a bike.
>>>
>>
>> Yes that's true.
>>
>> I don't know about Portland mass transit (items linked were aired on
>> Seattle radio where I heard them) but in Chicago, the various train
>> lines are color coded and there's a distinct risk differential from one
>> to another,
>>
>> https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/interactive-map-see-how-safe-or-dangerous-your-cta-station-ranks/2218313/
>>
>> between segments on the same route and across time of day.
>
>I was part of a team that produced local area bike maps. These were to
>give some guidance about which streets were more amenable or less
>amenable to bicycling. Part of the motivation was that in many
>instances, there were very pleasant but less known streets that were
>excellent alternatives to busier arterials. Streets were color coded by
>recommended level of rider expertise, red for expert, green for easy, etc.
>
>The question came up: What should be done about "bad neighborhoods"?
>Should they be marked red? The answer we agreed on was that we were
>rating bicycling, not crime. So there are green-rated streets passing
>through neighborhoods I'd prefer to avoid at 1 AM on a Friday or Saturday.

Some streets were designated by this ridiculous "team" as only for
expert bicyclists? I suspect Krygowski's"team" was just him and
perhaps a few group thinking members of his bike club.

I wonder how many pathetic morons accepted his "guidance" instead of
judging for themselves. I'll bet the fools that did were also group
thinking members of his bike club.

Some people just beg to be led around by the nose.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 1/25/2024 4:48 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/25/2024 3:26 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, every normal curve does have two tails. What I'm finding online
>>> says that it's almost always safe. Kind of like riding a bike.
>>>
>>
>> Yes that's true.
>>
>> I don't know about Portland mass transit (items linked were aired on
>> Seattle radio where I heard them) but in Chicago, the various train
>> lines are color coded and there's a distinct risk differential from one
>> to another,
>>
>> https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/interactive-map-see-how-safe-or-dangerous-your-cta-station-ranks/2218313/
>>
>> between segments on the same route and across time of day.
>
> I was part of a team that produced local area bike maps. These were to
> give some guidance about which streets were more amenable or less
> amenable to bicycling. Part of the motivation was that in many
> instances, there were very pleasant but less known streets that were
> excellent alternatives to busier arterials. Streets were color coded by
> recommended level of rider expertise, red for expert, green for easy, etc.
>
> The question came up: What should be done about "bad neighborhoods"?
> Should they be marked red? The answer we agreed on was that we were
> rating bicycling, not crime. So there are green-rated streets passing
> through neighborhoods I'd prefer to avoid at 1 AM on a Friday or Saturday.
>
Related is a discussion certainly in places like London that has a lot of
green spaces be they parks/canals and so on that can be used to bypass
roads that are less friendly or simply they are a more direct route, but
they also tend not to be lit and are quiet which puts folks off from using
them after dark particularly women.

Has to say mass transit in America which doesn’t have a good reputation
anyway sounds to be accurate, doesn’t have to be this way other places do
manage to have well functioning transport even London which is self funding
hence expensive to travel compared to other cities. Clearly cheaper than
the car, where just parking costs more!

Roger Merriman

On Thu Jan 25 13:33:20 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/25/2024 11:21 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 1/25/2024 9:37 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 1/25/2024 9:07 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Bright Line review:
> >>> https://onemileatatime.com/brightline-train-review/
> >>>
> >>> But that's a privately funded/managed system so measured on a
> >>> different scale from public transport...
> >>
> >> We've used trains in Europe many times. Our only difficulties were
> >> minor, and had to do with the fact we were taking bicycles with us,
> >> and sometimes bicycle trailers.
> >>
> >> The French TGV was especially nice.
> >>
> >> Those governments are able to make mass transit work. For better or
> >> worse, U.S. government is ~100% about subsidizing cars.
> >>
> >
> > Our Federal government took over the auto industry with regulatory
> > impediments, tax and tariff policy, labor influence and so on more than
> > direct subsidies.
>
> U.S. subsidies for car travel aren't direct to the manufacturers. They
> are in the form of immense expenses on road construction and
> improvements, including land acquisition costs, design costs,
> enforcement costs, etc. It's very well known that gas tax pays only a
> small fraction of highway costs.
>
> U.S. transportation philosophy is to give extremely high priority to
> moving automobiles. Any other method of surface transport gets crumbs,
> whether walking, bicycling, buses, rail, whatever. Note that in most
> city's shopping areas, simply walking is difficult to impossible.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force private people to change their means of transportation by punishing them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business. I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent for buying an electric car but the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not intelligent in anyone's book. Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without environmental damage.

On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force private people to change their means of transportation by punishing them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business. I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...

Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.

> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not intelligent in anyone's book.

We'll see, Tom.

> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without environmental damage.

https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/

"Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn’t be farther from the truth..."

You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
sources!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force private people to change their means of transportation by punishing them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business. I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>
>Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>
>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not intelligent in anyone's book.
>
>We'll see, Tom.
>
>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without environmental damage.
>
>https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>
>"Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn’t be farther from the truth..."
>
>You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>sources!

These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
researchers say.

https://news.mit.edu/2023/minimizing-electric-vehicles-impact-grid-0315

Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>
>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>
>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>
>> We'll see, Tom.
>>
>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without environmental damage.
>>
>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>
>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn’t be farther from the truth..."
>>
>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>> sources!
>
> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
> researchers say.
>
> https://news.mit.edu/2023/minimizing-electric-vehicles-impact-grid-0315
>
Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
help balance the grid and so on.

While EV are still cars and all that, the they are going to crash our grid
doesn’t seem probable, and there are countries with high EV % share which
seem to cope just fine.

Clearly this is developing technology and all that.

Roger Merriman

On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:26:44 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>>
>>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>>
>>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>>
>>> We'll see, Tom.
>>>
>>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without environmental damage.
>>>
>>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>>
>>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn?t be farther from the truth..."
>>>
>>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>>> sources!
>>
>> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
>> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
>> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
>> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
>> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
>> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
>> researchers say.
>>
>> https://news.mit.edu/2023/minimizing-electric-vehicles-impact-grid-0315
>>
>Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
>unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
>around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
>help balance the grid and so on.
>
>While EV are still cars and all that, the they are going to crash our grid
>doesn’t seem probable, and there are countries with high EV % share which
>seem to cope just fine.
>
>Clearly this is developing technology and all that.
>
>Roger Merriman

I'm not a fan of studies done by colleges, but this one doesn't (MIT)
seem to have an aganda.

Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:26:44 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>>>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>>>
>>>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>>>
>>>> We'll see, Tom.
>>>>
>>>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without
>>>>> environmental damage.
>>>>
>>>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>>>
>>>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>>>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn?t be farther from the truth..."
>>>>
>>>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>>>> sources!
>>>
>>> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
>>> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
>>> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
>>> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
>>> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
>>> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
>>> researchers say.
>>>
>>> https://news.mit.edu/2023/minimizing-electric-vehicles-impact-grid-0315
>>>
>> Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
>> unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
>> around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
>> help balance the grid and so on.
>>
>> While EV are still cars and all that, the they are going to crash our grid
>> doesn’t seem probable, and there are countries with high EV % share which
>> seem to cope just fine.
>>
>> Clearly this is developing technology and all that.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> I'm not a fan of studies done by colleges, but this one doesn't (MIT)
> seem to have an aganda.
>

The suppliers seem to be un phased by it and not so worried, such as the Uk
National Grid.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

Which is broadly what I’ve read and even seen interviews that the folks
doing the work, and planning aren’t worried.

Roger Merriman

On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:56:42 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:26:44 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>>>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>>>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>>>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>>>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>>>>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>>>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>>>>
>>>>> We'll see, Tom.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>>>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without
>>>>>> environmental damage.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>>>>
>>>>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>>>>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn?t be farther from the truth..."
>>>>>
>>>>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>>>>> sources!
>>>>
>>>> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
>>>> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
>>>> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
>>>> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
>>>> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
>>>> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
>>>> researchers say.
>>>>
>>>> https://news.mit.edu/2023/minimizing-electric-vehicles-impact-grid-0315
>>>>
>>> Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
>>> unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
>>> around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
>>> help balance the grid and so on.
>>>
>>> While EV are still cars and all that, the they are going to crash our grid
>>> doesn?t seem probable, and there are countries with high EV % share which
>>> seem to cope just fine.
>>>
>>> Clearly this is developing technology and all that.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> I'm not a fan of studies done by colleges, but this one doesn't (MIT)
>> seem to have an aganda.
>>
>
>The suppliers seem to be un phased by it and not so worried, such as the Uk
>National Grid.

The suppliers don't care, as long as they sell, but actually, the
sales have been going down.

>https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars
>
>Which is broadly what I’ve read and even seen interviews that the folks
>doing the work, and planning aren’t worried.
>
>Roger Merriman
>

Lack of foresight is a common problem.

On 2/23/2024 5:32 PM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:26:44 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>>>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>>>
>>>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>>>
>>>> We'll see, Tom.
>>>>
>>>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without environmental damage.
>>>>
>>>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>>>
>>>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>>>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn?t be farther from the truth..."
>>>>
>>>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>>>> sources!
>>>
>>> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
>>> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
>>> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
>>> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
>>> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
>>> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
>>> researchers say.
>>>
>>> https://news.mit.edu/2023/minimizing-electric-vehicles-impact-grid-0315
>>>
>> Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
>> unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
>> around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
>> help balance the grid and so on.
>>
>> While EV are still cars and all that, the they are going to crash our grid
>> doesn’t seem probable, and there are countries with high EV % share which
>> seem to cope just fine.
>>
>> Clearly this is developing technology and all that.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> I'm not a fan of studies done by colleges, but this one doesn't (MIT)
> seem to have an aganda.

Only because it aligns with your

--
Add xx to reply

Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:56:42 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:26:44 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>>>>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>>>>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>>>>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>>>>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>>>>>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>>>>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We'll see, Tom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>>>>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without
>>>>>>> environmental damage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>>>>>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn?t be farther from the truth..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>>>>>> sources!
>>>>>
>>>>> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
>>>>> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
>>>>> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
>>>>> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
>>>>> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
>>>>> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
>>>>> researchers say.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://news.mit.edu/2023/minimizing-electric-vehicles-impact-grid-0315
>>>>>
>>>> Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
>>>> unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
>>>> around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
>>>> help balance the grid and so on.
>>>>
>>>> While EV are still cars and all that, the they are going to crash our grid
>>>> doesn?t seem probable, and there are countries with high EV % share which
>>>> seem to cope just fine.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly this is developing technology and all that.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> I'm not a fan of studies done by colleges, but this one doesn't (MIT)
>>> seem to have an aganda.
>>>
>>
>> The suppliers seem to be un phased by it and not so worried, such as the Uk
>> National Grid.
>
> The suppliers don't care, as long as they sell, but actually, the
> sales have been going down.
>
>> https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars
>>
>> Which is broadly what I’ve read and even seen interviews that the folks
>> doing the work, and planning aren’t worried.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
> Lack of foresight is a common problem.
>
Prediction of the future is never easy but remember certainty for Europe
there are places like Norway outlier that they might be, but with getting
on for 90% new car sales ie there are places with large numbers of EV on
the grid now.

Roger Merriman

Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/23/2024 5:32 PM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:26:44 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>>>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>>>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>>>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>>>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>>>>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>>>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>>>>
>>>>> We'll see, Tom.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>>>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without
>>>>>> environmental damage.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>>>>
>>>>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>>>>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn?t be farther from the truth..."
>>>>>
>>>>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>>>>> sources!
>>>>
>>>> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
>>>> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
>>>> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
>>>> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
>>>> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
>>>> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
>>>> researchers say.
>>>>
>>>> https://news.mit.edu/2023/minimizing-electric-vehicles-impact-grid-0315
>>>>
>>> Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
>>> unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
>>> around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
>>> help balance the grid and so on.
>>>
>>> While EV are still cars and all that, the they are going to crash our grid
>>> doesn’t seem probable, and there are countries with high EV % share which
>>> seem to cope just fine.
>>>
>>> Clearly this is developing technology and all that.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> I'm not a fan of studies done by colleges, but this one doesn't (MIT)
>> seem to have an aganda.
>
> Only because it aligns with your
>
To be fair he’s not the only one that does this! Particularly in this
group! A fair bit of rigidity in thought and so on.

Roger Merriman

On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 23:20:39 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:56:42 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:26:44 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>>>>>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>>>>>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>>>>>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>>>>>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>>>>>>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>>>>>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We'll see, Tom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>>>>>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without
>>>>>>>> environmental damage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>>>>>>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn?t be farther from the truth..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>>>>>>> sources!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
>>>>>> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
>>>>>> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
>>>>>> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
>>>>>> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
>>>>>> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
>>>>>> researchers say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://news.mit.edu/2023/minimizing-electric-vehicles-impact-grid-0315
>>>>>>
>>>>> Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
>>>>> unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
>>>>> around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
>>>>> help balance the grid and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> While EV are still cars and all that, the they are going to crash our grid
>>>>> doesn?t seem probable, and there are countries with high EV % share which
>>>>> seem to cope just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly this is developing technology and all that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> I'm not a fan of studies done by colleges, but this one doesn't (MIT)
>>>> seem to have an aganda.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The suppliers seem to be un phased by it and not so worried, such as the Uk
>>> National Grid.
>>
>> The suppliers don't care, as long as they sell, but actually, the
>> sales have been going down.
>>
>>> https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars
>>>
>>> Which is broadly what I?ve read and even seen interviews that the folks
>>> doing the work, and planning aren?t worried.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>
>> Lack of foresight is a common problem.
>>
>Prediction of the future is never easy but remember certainty for Europe
>there are places like Norway outlier that they might be, but with getting
>on for 90% new car sales ie there are places with large numbers of EV on
>the grid now.
>
>Roger Merriman

Take it up with MIT - Massachusetts Institute of Technology. I'm not
going to argue.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 23:29:42 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2/23/2024 5:32 PM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:26:44 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>>>>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>>>>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>>>>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>>>>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>>>>>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>>>>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We'll see, Tom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>>>>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without
>>>>>>> environmental damage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>>>>>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn?t be farther from the truth..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>>>>>> sources!
>>>>>
>>>>> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
>>>>> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
>>>>> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
>>>>> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
>>>>> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
>>>>> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
>>>>> researchers say.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://news.mit.edu/2023/minimizing-electric-vehicles-impact-grid-0315
>>>>>
>>>> Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
>>>> unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
>>>> around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
>>>> help balance the grid and so on.
>>>>
>>>> While EV are still cars and all that, the they are going to crash our grid
>>>> doesn’t seem probable, and there are countries with high EV % share which
>>>> seem to cope just fine.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly this is developing technology and all that.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> I'm not a fan of studies done by colleges, but this one doesn't (MIT)
>>> seem to have an aganda.
>>
>> Only because it aligns with your
>>
>To be fair he’s not the only one that does this! Particularly in this
>group! A fair bit of rigidity in thought and so on.
>
>Roger Merriman

Don't be misled by junior's rheeteroc. Actually, he thinks very highy
of me. Follows me around like a puppy dog.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 23:20:39 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:56:42 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:26:44 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>>>>>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>>>>>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>>>>>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>>>>>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>>>>>>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>>>>>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We'll see, Tom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>>>>>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without
>>>>>>>> environmental damage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>>>>>>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn?t be farther from the truth..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>>>>>>> sources!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
>>>>>> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
>>>>>> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
>>>>>> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
>>>>>> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
>>>>>> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
>>>>>> researchers say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://news.mit.edu/2023/minimizing-electric-vehicles-impact-grid-0315
>>>>>>
>>>>> Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
>>>>> unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
>>>>> around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
>>>>> help balance the grid and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> While EV are still cars and all that, the they are going to crash our grid
>>>>> doesn?t seem probable, and there are countries with high EV % share which
>>>>> seem to cope just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly this is developing technology and all that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> I'm not a fan of studies done by colleges, but this one doesn't (MIT)
>>>> seem to have an aganda.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The suppliers seem to be un phased by it and not so worried, such as the Uk
>>> National Grid.
>>
>> The suppliers don't care, as long as they sell, but actually, the
>> sales have been going down.
>>
>>> https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars
>>>
>>> Which is broadly what I?ve read and even seen interviews that the folks
>>> doing the work, and planning aren?t worried.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>
>> Lack of foresight is a common problem.
>>
>Prediction of the future is never easy but remember certainty for Europe
>there are places like Norway outlier that they might be, but with getting
>on for 90% new car sales ie there are places with large numbers of EV on
>the grid now.
>
>Roger Merriman

California has existing laws that in a few more years all trucks and
autos used in the state must be electric.
"California's zero-emission rules will cut smog-causing pollution from
light-duty vehicles by 25% by 2037. The rules mandate 35% of the new
cars sold be plug-in hybrid electric (PHEV), EVs or hydrogen fuel cell
by 2026. That proportion will rise to 68% by 2030 and 100% by 2035."
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2/23/2024 5:26 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>>
>>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>>
>>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>>
>>> We'll see, Tom.
>>>
>>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without environmental damage.
>>>
>>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>>
>>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn’t be farther from the truth..."
>>>
>>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>>> sources!
>>
>> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
>> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
>> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
>> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
>> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
>> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
>> researchers say.
>>
>>
>>
> Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
> unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
> around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
> help balance the grid and so on.

Back in about 1915, I'm sure there were people saying "Motorcars will
never work! How could they get gasoline way out in the country?"

And I wonder if all those skeptics voted for the same political party
back then?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 2/23/2024 5:26 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>>>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>>>
>>>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>>>
>>>> We'll see, Tom.
>>>>
>>>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without
>>>>> environmental damage.
>>>>
>>>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>>>
>>>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>>>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn’t be farther from the truth..."
>>>>
>>>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>>>> sources!
>>>
>>> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
>>> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
>>> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
>>> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
>>> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
>>> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
>>> researchers say.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
>> unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
>> around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
>> help balance the grid and so on.
>
> Back in about 1915, I'm sure there were people saying "Motorcars will
> never work! How could they get gasoline way out in the country?"
>
> And I wonder if all those skeptics voted for the same political party
> back then?
>

Absolutely there was hence the first boom of electric cars. Plus the
maintenance or lack of it. I think New York had a lot of electric taxis?

Roger Merriman

On 2/23/2024 7:07 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 23:29:42 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2/23/2024 5:32 PM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 22:26:44 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/23/2024 11:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frank, the major means of transportation of the public in the US and
>>>>>>>> pretty much in Europe, and certainly Great Britain. You cannot force
>>>>>>>> private people to change their means of transportation by punishing
>>>>>>>> them via taxation or putting the automotive companies out of business.
>>>>>>>> I know you believe yourself infinitely intelligent...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. Not infinitely intelligent. But intelligent enough to know how to
>>>>>>> write complete sentences, unlike your leading sentence above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ... the idea of selling vehicvles with a VERY limited lifespan is not
>>>>>>>> intelligent in anyone's book.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We'll see, Tom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not to mention that we absolutely CANNOT charge a large number of EV's
>>>>>>>> because it is impossible to generate that much electricity without
>>>>>>>> environmental damage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://electrifynews.com/featured/myth-busting-the-grid-can-our-infrastructure-support-electric-vehicles/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Myth 1: The electric charging grid cannot support the upcoming lineups
>>>>>>> of new electric vehicles. This myth couldn?t be farther from the truth..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You really need to read _something_ besides your far right conspiracy
>>>>>>> sources!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These effects on the electric power system are considerable,
>>>>>> especially if the system must meet charging demands for a fully
>>>>>> electrified personal vehicle fleet alongside the peaks in other demand
>>>>>> for electricity, for example on the hottest days of the year. If
>>>>>> unmitigated, the evening peaks in EV charging demand could require
>>>>>> installing upwards of 20 percent more power-generation capacity, the
>>>>>> researchers say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://news.mit.edu/2023/minimizing-electric-vehicles-impact-grid-0315
>>>>>>
>>>>> Seems unlikely unless they are all used at peak times, which again seems
>>>>> unlikely really as chargers that can wait til off peak or the car have been
>>>>> around for good decade or more, even technology so the car can be used to
>>>>> help balance the grid and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> While EV are still cars and all that, the they are going to crash our grid
>>>>> doesn’t seem probable, and there are countries with high EV % share which
>>>>> seem to cope just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly this is developing technology and all that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> I'm not a fan of studies done by colleges, but this one doesn't (MIT)
>>>> seem to have an aganda.
>>>
>>> Only because it aligns with your
>>>
>> To be fair he’s not the only one that does this! Particularly in this
>> group! A fair bit of rigidity in thought and so on.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> Don't be misled by junior's rheeteroc. Actually, he thinks very highy
> of me. Follows me around like a puppy dog.

lol....spoken like a true narcissist (and interesting how you're so
deluded you can't see what you just posted is exactly a reflection of
your constant obsessing over Frank, but hey, we shouldn't be surprised
that a willfully ignorant dumbass is proud of his wilful ignorance and
displays it with every opportunity.)

On 2/24/2024 8:13 AM, zen cycle wrote:
>
> lol....spoken like a true narcissist (and interesting how you're so
> deluded you can't see what you just posted is exactly a reflection of
> your constant obsessing over Frank...

:-) Imagine him pedaling along his bicycle path, gun at the ready (in
case that lady pushing her baby buggy suddenly attacks him!) and
grinding his teeth!

"Grrr, when I get back to my computer I'm going to REALLY tell those
guys off!"

What a way to live!

--
- Frank Krygowski