https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an entire string of buses on fire was not even being charged at the time. The fire lit and spread so rapidly that it was essentially an explosion. They were lucky that they were WAITING to be useds to transport students and not actively transporting them, at the time.

On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 14:40:56 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55?AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
>The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an entire string of buses on fire was not even being charged at the time. The fire lit and spread so rapidly that it was essentially an explosion. They were lucky that they were WAITING to be useds to transport students and not actively transporting them, at the time.

Ah, you mean "Utah school bus driver arrested, accused of lighting
multiple buses on fire"
https://www.ksl.com/article/50770799/utah-school-bus-driver-arrested-accused-of-lighting-multiple-buses-on-fire
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 1/20/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an entire string of buses on fire was not even being charged at the time. The fire lit and spread so rapidly that it was essentially an explosion. They were lucky that they were WAITING to be useds to transport students and not actively transporting them, at the time.

People still find fun and exciting things to do with modern
battery systems. Yesterday for example:

https://nypost.com/2024/01/21/news/fourth-victim-idd-in-california-kit-built-plane-crash-as-son-of-zoom-exec

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/21/2024 10:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/20/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
>>> --
>>> Andrew Muzi
>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>
>> The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an entire string
>> of buses on fire was not even being charged at the time. The fire lit
>> and spread so rapidly that it was essentially an explosion. They were
>> lucky that they were WAITING to be useds to transport students and not
>> actively transporting them, at the time.
>
>
> People still find fun and exciting things to do with modern battery
> systems. Yesterday for example:
>
> https://nypost.com/2024/01/21/news/fourth-victim-idd-in-california-kit-built-plane-crash-as-son-of-zoom-exec

Based on other articles I've read, that plane was NOT electrically
driven. The owner and/or pilot had some connection with electic drive
aircraft projects, but the plane had a conventional engine.

Take a close look at the photo of the crash, about three seconds into
the video. That doesn't look like an electric motor to me. It looks like
an engine, which is the word used in several reports.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/21/2024 9:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/21/2024 10:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/20/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
>>> wrote:
>>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>
>>> The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an
>>> entire string of buses on fire was not even being charged
>>> at the time. The fire lit and spread so rapidly that it
>>> was essentially an explosion. They were lucky that they
>>> were WAITING to be useds to transport students and not
>>> actively transporting them, at the time.
>>
>>
>> People still find fun and exciting things to do with
>> modern battery systems. Yesterday for example:
>>
>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/21/news/fourth-victim-idd-in-california-kit-built-plane-crash-as-son-of-zoom-exec
>
> Based on other articles I've read, that plane was NOT
> electrically driven. The owner and/or pilot had some
> connection with electic drive aircraft projects, but the
> plane had a conventional engine.
>
> Take a close look at the photo of the crash, about three
> seconds into the video. That doesn't look like an electric
> motor to me. It looks like an engine, which is the word used
> in several reports.
>

Hmmmm. I don't know but the first line reads, "The fourth
victim who died when an electric plane built from a kit
crashed in California has been identified ..."

The 2d image:

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/wreckage-seen-small-plane-crashes-75041949_51853c.jpg

is captioned, "An electric plane built from a kit crashed in
California killed four friends. "

OTOH the newspaper business has of late (for understandable
reasons) shifted to concentrate more on immediacy than
accuracy. It's a real pressure in our short-attention-span age.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 8:04:15 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/21/2024 9:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 1/21/2024 10:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 1/20/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
> >>>> --
> >>>> Andrew Muzi
> >>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
> >>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >>>
> >>> The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an
> >>> entire string of buses on fire was not even being charged
> >>> at the time. The fire lit and spread so rapidly that it
> >>> was essentially an explosion. They were lucky that they
> >>> were WAITING to be useds to transport students and not
> >>> actively transporting them, at the time.
> >>
> >>
> >> People still find fun and exciting things to do with
> >> modern battery systems. Yesterday for example:
> >>
> >> https://nypost.com/2024/01/21/news/fourth-victim-idd-in-california-kit-built-plane-crash-as-son-of-zoom-exec
> >
> > Based on other articles I've read, that plane was NOT
> > electrically driven. The owner and/or pilot had some
> > connection with electic drive aircraft projects, but the
> > plane had a conventional engine.
> >
> > Take a close look at the photo of the crash, about three
> > seconds into the video. That doesn't look like an electric
> > motor to me. It looks like an engine, which is the word used
> > in several reports.
> >
> Hmmmm. I don't know but the first line reads, "The fourth
> victim who died when an electric plane built from a kit
> crashed in California has been identified ..."
>
> The 2d image:
>
> https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/wreckage-seen-small-plane-crashes-75041949_51853c.jpg
>
> is captioned, "An electric plane built from a kit crashed in
> California killed four friends. "
>
> OTOH the newspaper business has of late (for understandable
> reasons) shifted to concentrate more on immediacy than
> accuracy. It's a real pressure in our short-attention-span age.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was lucky to escape with his life.

https://www.visiontimes.com/2022/07/27/connecticut-electric-bus-fire-fleet-replaced-diesel.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWq-Mq1Uqpw
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1614242/London-bus-explosion-electric-bus-battery-pack-fire-latest-update

Krygowski keeps his in his garage and believes it to be 100% safe. While the failure rates aren't extraordinary, it does happen. All of the new houses are being built with the charging station on the outer wall of the garage where the EV can be charged at something of a distance from the house.

On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 10:04:11 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 1/21/2024 9:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/21/2024 10:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/20/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55?AM UTC-8, AMuzi
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
>>>>> --
>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>
>>>> The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an
>>>> entire string of buses on fire was not even being charged
>>>> at the time. The fire lit and spread so rapidly that it
>>>> was essentially an explosion. They were lucky that they
>>>> were WAITING to be useds to transport students and not
>>>> actively transporting them, at the time.
>>>
>>>
>>> People still find fun and exciting things to do with
>>> modern battery systems. Yesterday for example:
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/21/news/fourth-victim-idd-in-california-kit-built-plane-crash-as-son-of-zoom-exec
>>
>> Based on other articles I've read, that plane was NOT
>> electrically driven. The owner and/or pilot had some
>> connection with electic drive aircraft projects, but the
>> plane had a conventional engine.
>>
>> Take a close look at the photo of the crash, about three
>> seconds into the video. That doesn't look like an electric
>> motor to me. It looks like an engine, which is the word used
>> in several reports.
>>
>
>Hmmmm. I don't know but the first line reads, "The fourth
>victim who died when an electric plane built from a kit
>crashed in California has been identified ..."
>
>The 2d image:
>
>https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/wreckage-seen-small-plane-crashes-75041949_51853c.jpg
>
>is captioned, "An electric plane built from a kit crashed in
>California killed four friends. "
>
>OTOH the newspaper business has of late (for understandable
>reasons) shifted to concentrate more on immediacy than
>accuracy. It's a real pressure in our short-attention-span age.

A different crash but a good description of how an electric airplane
works.
https://www.flyingmag.com/lessons-learned-from-an-electric-airplane-accident/
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 1/21/2024 11:33 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 10:04:11 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/2024 9:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/21/2024 10:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 1/20/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55?AM UTC-8, AMuzi
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>>
>>>>> The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an
>>>>> entire string of buses on fire was not even being charged
>>>>> at the time. The fire lit and spread so rapidly that it
>>>>> was essentially an explosion. They were lucky that they
>>>>> were WAITING to be useds to transport students and not
>>>>> actively transporting them, at the time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> People still find fun and exciting things to do with
>>>> modern battery systems. Yesterday for example:
>>>>
>>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/21/news/fourth-victim-idd-in-california-kit-built-plane-crash-as-son-of-zoom-exec
>>>
>>> Based on other articles I've read, that plane was NOT
>>> electrically driven. The owner and/or pilot had some
>>> connection with electic drive aircraft projects, but the
>>> plane had a conventional engine.
>>>
>>> Take a close look at the photo of the crash, about three
>>> seconds into the video. That doesn't look like an electric
>>> motor to me. It looks like an engine, which is the word used
>>> in several reports.
>>>
>>
>> Hmmmm. I don't know but the first line reads, "The fourth
>> victim who died when an electric plane built from a kit
>> crashed in California has been identified ..."
>>
>> The 2d image:
>>
>> https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/wreckage-seen-small-plane-crashes-75041949_51853c.jpg
>>
>> is captioned, "An electric plane built from a kit crashed in
>> California killed four friends. "
>>
>> OTOH the newspaper business has of late (for understandable
>> reasons) shifted to concentrate more on immediacy than
>> accuracy. It's a real pressure in our short-attention-span age.
>
> A different crash but a good description of how an electric airplane
> works.
> https://www.flyingmag.com/lessons-learned-from-an-electric-airplane-accident/

Or, anecdotes of electric airplanes which "did not work".
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was lucky to escape with his life.

From the above article:

"Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."

"There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."

"Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
<https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
"Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."

If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
charged battery.

Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
"I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
2012 Taurus."
I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
your house?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was lucky to escape with his life.
>
> From the above article:
>
> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>
> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>
> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>
> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
> charged battery.
>
> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
> 2012 Taurus."
> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
> your house?
>
>

+1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.

That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 10:52:54 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/21/2024 10:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/20/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55?AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>
>>> The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an entire string
>>> of buses on fire was not even being charged at the time. The fire lit
>>> and spread so rapidly that it was essentially an explosion. They were
>>> lucky that they were WAITING to be useds to transport students and not
>>> actively transporting them, at the time.
>>
>>
>> People still find fun and exciting things to do with modern battery
>> systems. Yesterday for example:
>>
>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/21/news/fourth-victim-idd-in-california-kit-built-plane-crash-as-son-of-zoom-exec
>
>Based on other articles I've read, that plane was NOT electrically
>driven. The owner and/or pilot had some connection with electic drive
>aircraft projects, but the plane had a conventional engine.
>
>Take a close look at the photo of the crash, about three seconds into
>the video. That doesn't look like an electric motor to me. It looks like
>an engine, which is the word used in several reports.

The plane was a Cozy Mark IV.
<https://nypost.com/2024/01/17/news/4-dead-as-kit-built-plane-crashes-including-pilot-fiancee/>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cozy_MK_IV>
The power plant listed is a gasoline powered Lycoming O-360.
It's based on the Long-EZ, which does offer an electric powered
version:
<https://www.kitplanes.com/chip-yates-and-his-long-esa-4/>
I couldn't find anything on an electric engine for the Cozy Mark IV.
The NY Post article mentions:
"A 911 caller reported seeing it crashing toward the water after first
hearing the engine sputter"
Electric motors don't "sputter".

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 1/21/2024 1:03 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 10:52:54 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/2024 10:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/20/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55?AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
>>>>> --
>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>
>>>> The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an entire string
>>>> of buses on fire was not even being charged at the time. The fire lit
>>>> and spread so rapidly that it was essentially an explosion. They were
>>>> lucky that they were WAITING to be useds to transport students and not
>>>> actively transporting them, at the time.
>>>
>>>
>>> People still find fun and exciting things to do with modern battery
>>> systems. Yesterday for example:
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/21/news/fourth-victim-idd-in-california-kit-built-plane-crash-as-son-of-zoom-exec
>>
>> Based on other articles I've read, that plane was NOT electrically
>> driven. The owner and/or pilot had some connection with electic drive
>> aircraft projects, but the plane had a conventional engine.
>>
>> Take a close look at the photo of the crash, about three seconds into
>> the video. That doesn't look like an electric motor to me. It looks like
>> an engine, which is the word used in several reports.
>
> The plane was a Cozy Mark IV.
> <https://nypost.com/2024/01/17/news/4-dead-as-kit-built-plane-crashes-including-pilot-fiancee/>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cozy_MK_IV>
> The power plant listed is a gasoline powered Lycoming O-360.
> It's based on the Long-EZ, which does offer an electric powered
> version:
> <https://www.kitplanes.com/chip-yates-and-his-long-esa-4/>
> I couldn't find anything on an electric engine for the Cozy Mark IV.
> The NY Post article mentions:
> "A 911 caller reported seeing it crashing toward the water after first
> hearing the engine sputter"
> Electric motors don't "sputter".

+1

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/21/2024 11:04 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/21/2024 9:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/21/2024 10:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/20/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
>>>>> --
>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>
>>>> The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an entire string
>>>> of buses on fire was not even being charged at the time. The fire
>>>> lit and spread so rapidly that it was essentially an explosion. They
>>>> were lucky that they were WAITING to be useds to transport students
>>>> and not actively transporting them, at the time.
>>>
>>>
>>> People still find fun and exciting things to do with modern battery
>>> systems. Yesterday for example:
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/21/news/fourth-victim-idd-in-california-kit-built-plane-crash-as-son-of-zoom-exec
>>
>> Based on other articles I've read, that plane was NOT electrically
>> driven. The owner and/or pilot had some connection with electic drive
>> aircraft projects, but the plane had a conventional engine.
>>
>> Take a close look at the photo of the crash, about three seconds into
>> the video. That doesn't look like an electric motor to me. It looks
>> like an engine, which is the word used in several reports.
>>
>
> Hmmmm.  I don't know but the first line reads, "The fourth victim who
> died when an electric plane built from a kit crashed in California has
> been identified ..."
>
> The 2d image:
>
> https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/wreckage-seen-small-plane-crashes-75041949_51853c.jpg
>
> is captioned, "An electric plane built from a kit crashed in California
> killed four friends. "

Zoom in and look at the wrecked powerplant. Then look up Lycoming images.

--
- Frank Krygowski

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>
>> From the above article:
>>
>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>
>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>
>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>
>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>> charged battery.
>>
>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>> 2012 Taurus."
>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>> your house?
>>
>>
>
> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>
> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.

Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
both ICE vehicles.

With electrical you can’t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that’s less the
technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I’m
about to burst into flames!

Roger Merriman

On 1/21/2024 1:19 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/21/2024 11:04 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/21/2024 9:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/21/2024 10:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 1/20/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55 AM UTC-8,
>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>>
>>>>> The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an
>>>>> entire string of buses on fire was not even being
>>>>> charged at the time. The fire lit and spread so rapidly
>>>>> that it was essentially an explosion. They were lucky
>>>>> that they were WAITING to be useds to transport
>>>>> students and not actively transporting them, at the time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> People still find fun and exciting things to do with
>>>> modern battery systems. Yesterday for example:
>>>>
>>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/21/news/fourth-victim-idd-in-california-kit-built-plane-crash-as-son-of-zoom-exec
>>>
>>> Based on other articles I've read, that plane was NOT
>>> electrically driven. The owner and/or pilot had some
>>> connection with electic drive aircraft projects, but the
>>> plane had a conventional engine.
>>>
>>> Take a close look at the photo of the crash, about three
>>> seconds into the video. That doesn't look like an
>>> electric motor to me. It looks like an engine, which is
>>> the word used in several reports.
>>>
>>
>> Hmmmm.  I don't know but the first line reads, "The fourth
>> victim who died when an electric plane built from a kit
>> crashed in California has been identified ..."
>>
>> The 2d image:
>>
>> https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/wreckage-seen-small-plane-crashes-75041949_51853c.jpg
>>
>> is captioned, "An electric plane built from a kit crashed
>> in California killed four friends. "
>
> Zoom in and look at the wrecked powerplant. Then look up
> Lycoming images.
>

Yes I agree but the text (which I read) was misleading at
best. Thank you.

And I could not discern much detail from the images. Either
a Lycoming Porsche Four type or the Corvair Six format would
have normally caught my eye. Blowing up the image does show
the distinctive layout; thanks again.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/21/2024 12:52 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>
>>  From the above article:
>>
>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>
>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>
>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>
>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>> to happen to your vehicle?  At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>> burned out mess.  Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>> charged battery.
>>
>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>> 2012 Taurus."
>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>> your house?
>>
>>
>
> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever) generally. I
> have a healthy respect for gasoline after a direct experience.   Same
> crispy result as any other fire.
>
> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes), 'classic' meat
> powered not-electric bicycles are almost certainly not going to
> spontaneously immolate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_human_combustion

Here's proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW6W9iOjTKM

--
Add xx to reply

On 1/21/2024 1:03 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 10:52:54 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/2024 10:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/20/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 7:18:55?AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/20/metro/watch-how-an-e-bike-battery-starts-an-inferno-in-an-nyc-store/
>>>>> --
>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>
>>>> The Li-Ion school bus that ignited suddenly and lit an entire string
>>>> of buses on fire was not even being charged at the time. The fire lit
>>>> and spread so rapidly that it was essentially an explosion. They were
>>>> lucky that they were WAITING to be useds to transport students and not
>>>> actively transporting them, at the time.
>>>
>>>
>>> People still find fun and exciting things to do with modern battery
>>> systems. Yesterday for example:
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2024/01/21/news/fourth-victim-idd-in-california-kit-built-plane-crash-as-son-of-zoom-exec
>>
>> Based on other articles I've read, that plane was NOT electrically
>> driven. The owner and/or pilot had some connection with electic drive
>> aircraft projects, but the plane had a conventional engine.
>>
>> Take a close look at the photo of the crash, about three seconds into
>> the video. That doesn't look like an electric motor to me. It looks like
>> an engine, which is the word used in several reports.
>
> The plane was a Cozy Mark IV.
> <https://nypost.com/2024/01/17/news/4-dead-as-kit-built-plane-crashes-including-pilot-fiancee/>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cozy_MK_IV>
> The power plant listed is a gasoline powered Lycoming O-360.
> It's based on the Long-EZ, which does offer an electric powered
> version:
> <https://www.kitplanes.com/chip-yates-and-his-long-esa-4/>
> I couldn't find anything on an electric engine for the Cozy Mark IV.
> The NY Post article mentions:
> "A 911 caller reported seeing it crashing toward the water after first
> hearing the engine sputter"
> Electric motors don't "sputter".
>

Interesting that a Porsche 911 driver saw the crash of an aircraft
powered by a Lycoming Porsche Four type ;)

--
Add xx to reply

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
> >>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
> >>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
> >>> lucky to escape with his life.
> >>
> >> From the above article:
> >>
> >> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
> >> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
> >>
> >> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
> >> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
> >>
> >> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
> >> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
> >> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
> >> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
> >> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
> >>
> >> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
> >> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
> >> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
> >> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
> >> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
> >> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
> >> charged battery.
> >>
> >> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
> >> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
> >> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
> >> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
> >> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
> >> 2012 Taurus."
> >> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
> >> your house?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
> > generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
> > direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
> >
> > That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
> > 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
> > certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
> both ICE vehicles.
>
> With electrical you can’t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that’s less the
> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I’m
> about to burst into flames!
>
> Roger Merriman
Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.

On 1/22/2024 10:52 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>
>>>> From the above article:
>>>>
>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>
>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>
>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>
>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>> charged battery.
>>>>
>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>> your house?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>
>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>> both ICE vehicles.
>>
>> With electrical you can’t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that’s less the
>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I’m
>> about to burst into flames!
>>
>> Roger Merriman
> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.

[raises hand]

video of exactly that:
https://www.newsweek.com/lamborghini-fire-video-flames-rented-moscow-1817999

another:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/4751313/mclaren-p1-hypercar-fire-fuel-leak/

another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy_itaW9C1A

another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NojJ2a05Ifg

Gasoline is highly flammable and the more complex the
system, the more occasional anomalies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPVNFOrWgQo

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/22/2024 11:52 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.

Anybody else remember this?

https://carbuzz.com/news/famous-for-catching-fire-pontiac-fiero

"Now add to this the fact that some of the connecting rods being used
for the Fiero were found to be defective. An internal memo from Pontiac
reveled the problem to be with anywhere from 10 to 40 percent of the
connecting rods. This problem was only exacerbated by low engine oil
levels, and fires would result. At least, this is one of the causes. A
wiring harness mounted just above the exhaust manifold was also given to
melting and starting electrical fires, and improperly-tightened head
bolts would also sometimes crack the block and start a fire. Basically,
there were a lot of things that could go wrong.

"However, it was almost exclusively the 2.5-liter and the 1984 model
which caught fire. By mid-1987, the 1984 Fieros were catching fire at a
rate of about 20 per month."

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 08:52:53 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.

I've seen one. This was a gasoline burner, not an EV. I don't recall
the model or year, but can ask if anyone really wants the details.

A Honda something spontaneously caught fire while parked next to his
house. The engine was not running at the time. The Honda belonged to
the neighbors daughter how was visiting from college. I don't recall
the cause. I probably have some photos. I also have a recording of
the fire department getting lost trying to find the address. It
happened around Nov 12, 2016.

There are plenty more fire problems for Honda:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=honda+car+fires>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 1/22/2024 2:12 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/22/2024 11:52 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without
>> being in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>
> Anybody else remember this?
>
> https://carbuzz.com/news/famous-for-catching-fire-pontiac-fiero
>
> "Now add to this the fact that some of the connecting rods being used
> for the Fiero were found to be defective. An internal memo from Pontiac
> reveled the problem to be with anywhere from 10 to 40 percent of the
> connecting rods. This problem was only exacerbated by low engine oil
> levels, and fires would result. At least, this is one of the causes. A
> wiring harness mounted just above the exhaust manifold was also given to
> melting and starting electrical fires, and improperly-tightened head
> bolts would also sometimes crack the block and start a fire. Basically,
> there were a lot of things that could go wrong.
>
> "However, it was almost exclusively the 2.5-liter and the 1984 model
> which caught fire. By mid-1987, the 1984 Fieros were catching fire at a
> rate of about 20 per month."
>

I had a 1997 Bonneville I bought new. In 2001 it caught fire while I was
driving home at work on the highway. I remember the radio quit when I
accelerated to get on the highway, a few miles later a number of lights
on the dash started flashing, and I smelled something burning. I pulled
over and shut the car off with smoke continuing to build inside the car.
There were visible flames inside the vehicle by the time the fire
department got there.

That was the 4th time that particular car left me stranded. Obviously,
it was the last.

The NHTSA safety recall page has two vehicles on the first page that
have been recalled for engine fire risk, 2011 Kia Sorento and 2024
Hyundai Kona.
The second page has a recall for honda odysseys, ridgelines, and pilots
from 2016-2019 for fire risk. Page 3 has a recall for Toyota rav 4 for
fire risk. The first three pages date back to october of 2023.

Thats 4 recalls issued by NHTSA for fire risk since october of last year.

A quick search for vehicle fires in my local area shows a few
non-accident vehicle fires in the past year.
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/suv-bursts-into-flames-on-side-of-i-93-in-andover/3122074/
https://www.eagletribune.com/news/merrimack_valley/no-injuries-in-car-fire-on-i-93-in-andover/
https://whdh.com/news/state-police-car-fire-closes-several-lanes-on-i-93-northbound-in-woburn/

ICE vehicle electrical fires are _extremely_ common.

--
Add xx to reply

On 1/22/2024 2:28 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 1/22/2024 2:12 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/22/2024 11:52 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own
>>> fire without being in an accident? EV's light on fire
>>> seemingly of their own accord.
>>
>> Anybody else remember this?
>>
>> https://carbuzz.com/news/famous-for-catching-fire-pontiac-fiero
>>
>> "Now add to this the fact that some of the connecting rods
>> being used for the Fiero were found to be defective. An
>> internal memo from Pontiac reveled the problem to be with
>> anywhere from 10 to 40 percent of the connecting rods.
>> This problem was only exacerbated by low engine oil
>> levels, and fires would result. At least, this is one of
>> the causes. A wiring harness mounted just above the
>> exhaust manifold was also given to melting and starting
>> electrical fires, and improperly-tightened head bolts
>> would also sometimes crack the block and start a fire.
>> Basically, there were a lot of things that could go wrong.
>>
>> "However, it was almost exclusively the 2.5-liter and the
>> 1984 model which caught fire. By mid-1987, the 1984 Fieros
>> were catching fire at a rate of about 20 per month."
>>
>
> I had a 1997 Bonneville I bought new. In 2001 it caught fire
> while I was driving home at work on the highway. I remember
> the radio quit when I accelerated to get on the highway, a
> few miles later a number of lights on the dash started
> flashing, and I smelled something burning. I pulled over and
> shut the car off with smoke continuing to build inside the
> car. There were visible flames inside the vehicle by the
> time the fire department got there.
>
> That was the 4th time that particular car left me stranded.
> Obviously, it was the last.
>
> The NHTSA safety recall page has two vehicles on the first
> page that have been recalled for engine fire risk, 2011 Kia
> Sorento and 2024 Hyundai Kona.
> The second page has a recall for honda odysseys, ridgelines,
> and pilots from 2016-2019 for fire risk. Page 3 has a recall
> for Toyota rav 4 for fire risk. The first three pages date
> back to october of 2023.
>
> Thats 4 recalls issued by NHTSA for fire risk since october
> of last year.
>
> A quick search for vehicle fires in my local area shows a
> few non-accident vehicle fires in the past year.
> https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/suv-bursts-into-flames-on-side-of-i-93-in-andover/3122074/
> https://www.eagletribune.com/news/merrimack_valley/no-injuries-in-car-fire-on-i-93-in-andover/
> https://whdh.com/news/state-police-car-fire-closes-several-lanes-on-i-93-northbound-in-woburn/
>
> ICE vehicle electrical fires are _extremely_ common.
>

+1 to that; and usually not disastrous beyond replacing some
small or large amount of wiring. More often tedious and
annoying than life threatening. Gasoline fires are of a
different nature!
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>
>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>
>>>> From the above article:
>>>>
>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>
>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>
>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>
>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>> charged battery.
>>>>
>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>> your house?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>
>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>> both ICE vehicles.
>>
>> With electrical you can’t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that’s less the
>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I’m
>> about to burst into flames!
>>
>> Roger Merriman
> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>
Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
who’s cars have caught on fire haven’t been crashes.

Roger Merriman