On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
> >>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
> >>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
> >>>>
> >>>> From the above article:
> >>>>
> >>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
> >>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
> >>>>
> >>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
> >>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
> >>>>
> >>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
> >>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
> >>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
> >>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
> >>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
> >>>>
> >>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
> >>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
> >>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
> >>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
> >>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
> >>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
> >>>> charged battery.
> >>>>
> >>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
> >>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
> >>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
> >>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
> >>>> 2012 Taurus."
> >>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
> >>>> your house?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
> >>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
> >>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
> >>>
> >>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
> >>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
> >>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
> >> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
> >> both ICE vehicles.
> >>
> >> With electrical you can’t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
> >> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that’s less the
> >> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
> >> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
> >> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I’m
> >> about to burst into flames!
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> > Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
> > in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
> >
> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
> who’s cars have caught on fire haven’t been crashes.
>
> Roger Merriman

Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently, you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most dangerous things ever made by man-kind.

There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> With electrical you can’t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that’s less the
>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I’m
>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>
>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>> who’s cars have caught on fire haven’t been crashes.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.

Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.

For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV’s don’t have the motorway range
to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
with low charge remaining, it’s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.

All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
battery ages.
>
> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>
Doesn’t matter what American does or doesn’t do it’s a not the biggest
market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.

And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don’t
see any future that EV’s don’t dominate.

Roger Merriman

On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>
>>>>> With electrical you can’t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that’s less the
>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I’m
>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>
>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>> who’s cars have caught on fire haven’t been crashes.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>
>Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>
>For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV’s don’t have the motorway range
>to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>with low charge remaining, it’s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>
>All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>battery ages.
>>
>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>
>Doesn’t matter what American does or doesn’t do it’s a not the biggest
>market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>
>And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don’t
>see any future that EV’s don’t dominate.
>
>Roger Merriman
>

Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
which doesn't favor the EV market.

Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With electrical you can’t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that’s less the
>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I’m
>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>
>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>> who’s cars have caught on fire haven’t been crashes.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>
>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>
>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV’s don’t have the motorway range
>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>> with low charge remaining, it’s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>
>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>> battery ages.
>>>
>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>
>> Doesn’t matter what American does or doesn’t do it’s a not the biggest
>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>
>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don’t
>> see any future that EV’s don’t dominate.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
>
> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>
He can say what he likes, that’s not where the markets are heading, or what
the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
total chaos as it’s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.

But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!

That is the direction the industry’s moving too which will not change what
ever America does.

Roger Merriman

On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 23:02:34 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With electrical you can?t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that?s less the
>>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I?m
>>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>>> who?s cars have caught on fire haven?t been crashes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>>
>>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>>
>>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV?s don?t have the motorway range
>>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>>> with low charge remaining, it?s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>>
>>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>>> battery ages.
>>>>
>>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>>
>>> Doesn?t matter what American does or doesn?t do it?s a not the biggest
>>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>>
>>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don?t
>>> see any future that EV?s don?t dominate.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>
>>
>> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
>> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
>> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
>> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>>
>He can say what he likes, that’s not where the markets are heading, or what
>the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
>total chaos as it’s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
>record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.
>
>But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
>2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!
>
>That is the direction the industry’s moving too which will not change what
>ever America does.
>
>Roger Merriman

I suspect that the shorter travel distances in Europe will make the
EVs easier to own. On the other hand, Biden's pushing them as he has
done is part of the reluctance to buying them. There are many folks in
the USA who don't like being manipulated by the jackasses in the
government.

On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 2:42:00 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
> >>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
> >>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From the above article:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
> >>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
> >>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
> >>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
> >>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
> >>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
> >>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
> >>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
> >>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
> >>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
> >>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
> >>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
> >>>>>> charged battery.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
> >>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
> >>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
> >>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
> >>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
> >>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
> >>>>>> your house?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
> >>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
> >>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
> >>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
> >>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
> >>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
> >>>> both ICE vehicles.
> >>>>
> >>>> With electrical you can’t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
> >>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that’s less the
> >>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
> >>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
> >>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I’m
> >>>> about to burst into flames!
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Merriman
> >>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
> >>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
> >>>
> >> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
> >> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
> >> who’s cars have caught on fire haven’t been crashes.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >
> > Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
> > you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
> > dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>
> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV’s don’t have the motorway range
> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
> with low charge remaining, it’s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>
> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
> battery ages.
> >
> > There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
> > are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
> > will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
> > people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
> >
> Doesn’t matter what American does or doesn’t do it’s a not the biggest
> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>
> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don’t
> see any future that EV’s don’t dominate.
>
> Roger Merriman
That was not cherry picking. Why did Great Britain Brexit? They are taking American tax money and buying illegals NEW CARS, the next door neighbors have FIVE cars. And we have honest hard working homeless people that cannot afford a rental! Rent is now higher than house payments but no one can afford to save up a down payment!

Please stop your looney beliefs that everything is just fine! GB is having a million problems and you're telling me that we over here don't have it bad.

Anyone with grade school math education could tell you that Biden was elected with election fraud and was helped along with a majority of the Republicans in Congress who were having their gravy train threatened. If there was one thing they couldn't understand it was someone who wasn't on the take.

Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 23:02:34 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With electrical you can?t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that?s less the
>>>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I?m
>>>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>>>> who?s cars have caught on fire haven?t been crashes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>>>
>>>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>>>
>>>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>>>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>>>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>>>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV?s don?t have the motorway range
>>>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>>>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>>>> with low charge remaining, it?s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>>>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>>>
>>>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>>>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>>>> battery ages.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>>>
>>>> Doesn?t matter what American does or doesn?t do it?s a not the biggest
>>>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>>>
>>>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don?t
>>>> see any future that EV?s don?t dominate.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
>>> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
>>> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
>>> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>>>
>> He can say what he likes, that’s not where the markets are heading, or what
>> the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
>> total chaos as it’s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
>> record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.
>>
>> But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
>> 2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!
>>
>> That is the direction the industry’s moving too which will not change what
>> ever America does.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> I suspect that the shorter travel distances in Europe will make the
> EVs easier to own. On the other hand, Biden's pushing them as he has
> done is part of the reluctance to buying them. There are many folks in
> the USA who don't like being manipulated by the jackasses in the
> government.
>
It’s not the distances as after all number of large markets are
unsurprisingly large countries or areas most folks will not choose
routinely or at all to drive huge distances in one go, even for myself
where I have noted that most EV would add time on to my most common long
journey, the uk has chargers at all services at least on the motorways so
doable though slower, though by how much does depend on the car and
choices.

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:18:12 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 23:02:34 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With electrical you can?t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that?s less the
>>>>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I?m
>>>>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>>>>> who?s cars have caught on fire haven?t been crashes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>>>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>>>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>>>>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>>>>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>>>>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV?s don?t have the motorway range
>>>>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>>>>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>>>>> with low charge remaining, it?s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>>>>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>>>>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>>>>> battery ages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>>>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>>>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>>>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn?t matter what American does or doesn?t do it?s a not the biggest
>>>>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>>>>
>>>>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don?t
>>>>> see any future that EV?s don?t dominate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
>>>> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
>>>> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
>>>> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>>>>
>>> He can say what he likes, that?s not where the markets are heading, or what
>>> the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
>>> total chaos as it?s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
>>> record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.
>>>
>>> But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
>>> 2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!
>>>
>>> That is the direction the industry?s moving too which will not change what
>>> ever America does.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> I suspect that the shorter travel distances in Europe will make the
>> EVs easier to own. On the other hand, Biden's pushing them as he has
>> done is part of the reluctance to buying them. There are many folks in
>> the USA who don't like being manipulated by the jackasses in the
>> government.
>>
>It’s not the distances as after all number of large markets are
>unsurprisingly large countries or areas most folks will not choose
>routinely or at all to drive huge distances in one go, even for myself
>where I have noted that most EV would add time on to my most common long
>journey, the uk has chargers at all services at least on the motorways so
>doable though slower, though by how much does depend on the car and
>choices.
>
>Ie it’s not an insurmountable problem clearly still an evolving technology
>and so on.
>
>But America unless I’m mistaken doesn’t do passenger trains and certainly
>high speed stuff? Which most other big car markets do, China and Europe
>have plenty and sleepers which are very civilised way to travel.
>
>Roger Merriman

On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:50:54 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 2:42:00?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> >>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> >>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>> >>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>> >>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> From the above article:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>> >>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>> >>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>> >>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>> >>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>> >>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>> >>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>> >>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>> >>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>> >>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>> >>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>> >>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>> >>>>>> charged battery.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>> >>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>> >>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>> >>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>> >>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>> >>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>> >>>>>> your house?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>> >>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>> >>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>> >>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>> >>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>> >>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>> >>>> both ICE vehicles.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> With electrical you can’t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>> >>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that’s less the
>> >>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>> >>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>> >>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I’m
>> >>>> about to burst into flames!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Roger Merriman
>> >>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>> >>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>> >>>
>> >> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>> >> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>> >> who’s cars have caught on fire haven’t been crashes.
>> >>
>> >> Roger Merriman
>> >
>> > Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>> > you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>> > dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>
>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV’s don’t have the motorway range
>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>> with low charge remaining, it’s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>
>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>> battery ages.
>> >
>> > There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>> > are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>> > will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>> > people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>> >
>> Doesn’t matter what American does or doesn’t do it’s a not the biggest
>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>
>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don’t
>> see any future that EV’s don’t dominate.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>That was not cherry picking. Why did Great Britain Brexit? They are taking American tax money and buying illegals NEW CARS, the next door neighbors have FIVE cars. And we have honest hard working homeless people that cannot afford a rental! Rent is now higher than house payments but no one can afford to save up a down payment!
>
>Please stop your looney beliefs that everything is just fine! GB is having a million problems and you're telling me that we over here don't have it bad.
>
>Anyone with grade school math education could tell you that Biden was elected with election fraud and was helped along with a majority of the Republicans in Congress who were having their gravy train threatened. If there was one thing they couldn't understand it was someone who wasn't on the take.

"Why did Great Britain Brexit?
They are taking American tax money and buying illegal's NEW CARS, the
next door neighbors have FIVE cars."

Apparently the U.K. exited the E.U. in order to buy cars for
Americans...

Or has Tommy, once again, exhibited his vast stupidity.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:18:12 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 23:02:34 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With electrical you can?t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that?s less the
>>>>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I?m
>>>>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>>>>> who?s cars have caught on fire haven?t been crashes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>>>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>>>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>>>>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>>>>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>>>>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV?s don?t have the motorway range
>>>>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>>>>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>>>>> with low charge remaining, it?s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>>>>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>>>>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>>>>> battery ages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>>>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>>>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>>>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn?t matter what American does or doesn?t do it?s a not the biggest
>>>>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>>>>
>>>>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don?t
>>>>> see any future that EV?s don?t dominate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
>>>> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
>>>> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
>>>> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>>>>
>>> He can say what he likes, that?s not where the markets are heading, or what
>>> the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
>>> total chaos as it?s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
>>> record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.
>>>
>>> But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
>>> 2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!
>>>
>>> That is the direction the industry?s moving too which will not change what
>>> ever America does.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> I suspect that the shorter travel distances in Europe will make the
>> EVs easier to own. On the other hand, Biden's pushing them as he has
>> done is part of the reluctance to buying them. There are many folks in
>> the USA who don't like being manipulated by the jackasses in the
>> government.
>>
>It’s not the distances as after all number of large markets are
>unsurprisingly large countries or areas most folks will not choose
>routinely or at all to drive huge distances in one go, even for myself
>where I have noted that most EV would add time on to my most common long
>journey, the uk has chargers at all services at least on the motorways so
>doable though slower, though by how much does depend on the car and
>choices.
>
>Ie it’s not an insurmountable problem clearly still an evolving technology
>and so on.
>
>But America unless I’m mistaken doesn’t do passenger trains and certainly
>high speed stuff? Which most other big car markets do, China and Europe
>have plenty and sleepers which are very civilised way to travel.
>
>Roger Merriman

On 1/24/2024 6:41 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:18:12 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 23:02:34 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With electrical you can?t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that?s less the
>>>>>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I?m
>>>>>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>>>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>>>>>> who?s cars have caught on fire haven?t been crashes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>>>>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>>>>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>>>>>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>>>>>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>>>>>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV?s don?t have the motorway range
>>>>>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>>>>>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>>>>>> with low charge remaining, it?s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>>>>>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>>>>>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>>>>>> battery ages.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>>>>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>>>>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>>>>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn?t matter what American does or doesn?t do it?s a not the biggest
>>>>>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don?t
>>>>>> see any future that EV?s don?t dominate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
>>>>> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
>>>>> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
>>>>> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>>>>>
>>>> He can say what he likes, that?s not where the markets are heading, or what
>>>> the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
>>>> total chaos as it?s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
>>>> record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.
>>>>
>>>> But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
>>>> 2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!
>>>>
>>>> That is the direction the industry?s moving too which will not change what
>>>> ever America does.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> I suspect that the shorter travel distances in Europe will make the
>>> EVs easier to own. On the other hand, Biden's pushing them as he has
>>> done is part of the reluctance to buying them. There are many folks in
>>> the USA who don't like being manipulated by the jackasses in the
>>> government.
>>>
>> It’s not the distances as after all number of large markets are
>> unsurprisingly large countries or areas most folks will not choose
>> routinely or at all to drive huge distances in one go, even for myself
>> where I have noted that most EV would add time on to my most common long
>> journey, the uk has chargers at all services at least on the motorways so
>> doable though slower, though by how much does depend on the car and
>> choices.
>>
>> Ie it’s not an insurmountable problem clearly still an evolving technology
>> and so on.
>>
>> But America unless I’m mistaken doesn’t do passenger trains and certainly
>> high speed stuff? Which most other big car markets do, China and Europe
>> have plenty and sleepers which are very civilised way to travel.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> We do have a few passenger trains. Unfortunately they're run by the
> jackasses in the government and much of the travel is by bus.

On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 20:02:02 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 1/24/2024 6:41 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:18:12 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 23:02:34 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With electrical you can?t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that?s less the
>>>>>>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I?m
>>>>>>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>>>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>>>>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>>>>>>> who?s cars have caught on fire haven?t been crashes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>>>>>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>>>>>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>>>>>>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>>>>>>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>>>>>>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV?s don?t have the motorway range
>>>>>>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>>>>>>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>>>>>>> with low charge remaining, it?s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>>>>>>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>>>>>>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>>>>>>> battery ages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>>>>>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>>>>>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>>>>>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn?t matter what American does or doesn?t do it?s a not the biggest
>>>>>>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don?t
>>>>>>> see any future that EV?s don?t dominate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
>>>>>> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
>>>>>> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
>>>>>> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>>>>>>
>>>>> He can say what he likes, that?s not where the markets are heading, or what
>>>>> the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
>>>>> total chaos as it?s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
>>>>> record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.
>>>>>
>>>>> But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
>>>>> 2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!
>>>>>
>>>>> That is the direction the industry?s moving too which will not change what
>>>>> ever America does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that the shorter travel distances in Europe will make the
>>>> EVs easier to own. On the other hand, Biden's pushing them as he has
>>>> done is part of the reluctance to buying them. There are many folks in
>>>> the USA who don't like being manipulated by the jackasses in the
>>>> government.
>>>>
>>> It’s not the distances as after all number of large markets are
>>> unsurprisingly large countries or areas most folks will not choose
>>> routinely or at all to drive huge distances in one go, even for myself
>>> where I have noted that most EV would add time on to my most common long
>>> journey, the uk has chargers at all services at least on the motorways so
>>> doable though slower, though by how much does depend on the car and
>>> choices.
>>>
>>> Ie it’s not an insurmountable problem clearly still an evolving technology
>>> and so on.
>>>
>>> But America unless I’m mistaken doesn’t do passenger trains and certainly
>>> high speed stuff? Which most other big car markets do, China and Europe
>>> have plenty and sleepers which are very civilised way to travel.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> We do have a few passenger trains. Unfortunately they're run by the
>> jackasses in the government and much of the travel is by bus.
>
>That was once true.
>
>Intercity bus travel now is like camping out with the bums
>and addicts in a park. My most recent adventure was 10 years
>ago (to Memphis to pick up a car) and the systems have
>declined greatly since.
>
>https://dailyfriend.co.za/2024/01/07/greyhound-is-losing-its-iconic-bus-stations/
>
>https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/intercity-bus-terminals-are-closing-because-hedge-funds-are-scooping-them-up/ar-AA1lUieH
>
>They are out of revenue and out of ideas. The terminal
>properties are highly leveraged, many sold and leased back
>and now the bus operators can't even pay the rent.

Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:18:12 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 23:02:34 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With electrical you can?t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that?s less the
>>>>>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I?m
>>>>>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>>>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>>>>>> who?s cars have caught on fire haven?t been crashes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>>>>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>>>>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>>>>>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>>>>>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>>>>>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV?s don?t have the motorway range
>>>>>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>>>>>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>>>>>> with low charge remaining, it?s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>>>>>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>>>>>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>>>>>> battery ages.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>>>>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>>>>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>>>>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn?t matter what American does or doesn?t do it?s a not the biggest
>>>>>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don?t
>>>>>> see any future that EV?s don?t dominate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
>>>>> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
>>>>> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
>>>>> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>>>>>
>>>> He can say what he likes, that?s not where the markets are heading, or what
>>>> the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
>>>> total chaos as it?s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
>>>> record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.
>>>>
>>>> But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
>>>> 2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!
>>>>
>>>> That is the direction the industry?s moving too which will not change what
>>>> ever America does.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> I suspect that the shorter travel distances in Europe will make the
>>> EVs easier to own. On the other hand, Biden's pushing them as he has
>>> done is part of the reluctance to buying them. There are many folks in
>>> the USA who don't like being manipulated by the jackasses in the
>>> government.
>>>
>> It’s not the distances as after all number of large markets are
>> unsurprisingly large countries or areas most folks will not choose
>> routinely or at all to drive huge distances in one go, even for myself
>> where I have noted that most EV would add time on to my most common long
>> journey, the uk has chargers at all services at least on the motorways so
>> doable though slower, though by how much does depend on the car and
>> choices.
>>
>> Ie it’s not an insurmountable problem clearly still an evolving technology
>> and so on.
>>
>> But America unless I’m mistaken doesn’t do passenger trains and certainly
>> high speed stuff? Which most other big car markets do, China and Europe
>> have plenty and sleepers which are very civilised way to travel.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> We do have a few passenger trains. Unfortunately they're run by the
> jackasses in the government and much of the travel is by bus.
>
As ever isn’t a one fit solution but fast or High-Speed trains can do take
over short haul flights/cars etc.

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 11:17:14 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:18:12 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 23:02:34 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With electrical you can?t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that?s less the
>>>>>>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I?m
>>>>>>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>>>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>>>>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>>>>>>> who?s cars have caught on fire haven?t been crashes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>>>>>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>>>>>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>>>>>>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>>>>>>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>>>>>>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV?s don?t have the motorway range
>>>>>>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>>>>>>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>>>>>>> with low charge remaining, it?s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>>>>>>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>>>>>>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>>>>>>> battery ages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>>>>>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>>>>>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>>>>>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn?t matter what American does or doesn?t do it?s a not the biggest
>>>>>>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don?t
>>>>>>> see any future that EV?s don?t dominate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
>>>>>> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
>>>>>> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
>>>>>> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>>>>>>
>>>>> He can say what he likes, that?s not where the markets are heading, or what
>>>>> the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
>>>>> total chaos as it?s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
>>>>> record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.
>>>>>
>>>>> But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
>>>>> 2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!
>>>>>
>>>>> That is the direction the industry?s moving too which will not change what
>>>>> ever America does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that the shorter travel distances in Europe will make the
>>>> EVs easier to own. On the other hand, Biden's pushing them as he has
>>>> done is part of the reluctance to buying them. There are many folks in
>>>> the USA who don't like being manipulated by the jackasses in the
>>>> government.
>>>>
>>> It?s not the distances as after all number of large markets are
>>> unsurprisingly large countries or areas most folks will not choose
>>> routinely or at all to drive huge distances in one go, even for myself
>>> where I have noted that most EV would add time on to my most common long
>>> journey, the uk has chargers at all services at least on the motorways so
>>> doable though slower, though by how much does depend on the car and
>>> choices.
>>>
>>> Ie it?s not an insurmountable problem clearly still an evolving technology
>>> and so on.
>>>
>>> But America unless I?m mistaken doesn?t do passenger trains and certainly
>>> high speed stuff? Which most other big car markets do, China and Europe
>>> have plenty and sleepers which are very civilised way to travel.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> We do have a few passenger trains. Unfortunately they're run by the
>> jackasses in the government and much of the travel is by bus.
>>
>As ever isn’t a one fit solution but fast or High-Speed trains can do take
>over short haul flights/cars etc.

On 1/25/2024 3:35 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 20:02:02 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 1/24/2024 6:41 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:18:12 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 23:02:34 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>>>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With electrical you can?t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>>>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that?s less the
>>>>>>>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>>>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>>>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I?m
>>>>>>>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>>>>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>>>>>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>>>>>>>> who?s cars have caught on fire haven?t been crashes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>>>>>>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>>>>>>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>>>>>>>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>>>>>>>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>>>>>>>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV?s don?t have the motorway range
>>>>>>>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>>>>>>>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>>>>>>>> with low charge remaining, it?s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>>>>>>>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>>>>>>>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>>>>>>>> battery ages.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>>>>>>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>>>>>>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>>>>>>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doesn?t matter what American does or doesn?t do it?s a not the biggest
>>>>>>>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don?t
>>>>>>>> see any future that EV?s don?t dominate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
>>>>>>> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
>>>>>>> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
>>>>>>> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> He can say what he likes, that?s not where the markets are heading, or what
>>>>>> the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
>>>>>> total chaos as it?s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
>>>>>> record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
>>>>>> 2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is the direction the industry?s moving too which will not change what
>>>>>> ever America does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect that the shorter travel distances in Europe will make the
>>>>> EVs easier to own. On the other hand, Biden's pushing them as he has
>>>>> done is part of the reluctance to buying them. There are many folks in
>>>>> the USA who don't like being manipulated by the jackasses in the
>>>>> government.
>>>>>
>>>> It’s not the distances as after all number of large markets are
>>>> unsurprisingly large countries or areas most folks will not choose
>>>> routinely or at all to drive huge distances in one go, even for myself
>>>> where I have noted that most EV would add time on to my most common long
>>>> journey, the uk has chargers at all services at least on the motorways so
>>>> doable though slower, though by how much does depend on the car and
>>>> choices.
>>>>
>>>> Ie it’s not an insurmountable problem clearly still an evolving technology
>>>> and so on.
>>>>
>>>> But America unless I’m mistaken doesn’t do passenger trains and certainly
>>>> high speed stuff? Which most other big car markets do, China and Europe
>>>> have plenty and sleepers which are very civilised way to travel.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> We do have a few passenger trains. Unfortunately they're run by the
>>> jackasses in the government and much of the travel is by bus.
>>
>> That was once true.
>>
>> Intercity bus travel now is like camping out with the bums
>> and addicts in a park. My most recent adventure was 10 years
>> ago (to Memphis to pick up a car) and the systems have
>> declined greatly since.
>>
>> https://dailyfriend.co.za/2024/01/07/greyhound-is-losing-its-iconic-bus-stations/
>>
>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/intercity-bus-terminals-are-closing-because-hedge-funds-are-scooping-them-up/ar-AA1lUieH
>>
>> They are out of revenue and out of ideas. The terminal
>> properties are highly leveraged, many sold and leased back
>> and now the bus operators can't even pay the rent.
>
> I didn't know it had gotten so bad. The last time I rode a bus was in
> Mexico, many years ago. The bus was a smelly old wreck. The seats were
> broken and worn, but my riding companions were a delight. There was
> singing and even dancing in the aisle. Down-home Mexican culture at
> it's best.

On 1/25/2024 6:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 11:17:14 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:18:12 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 23:02:34 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>>>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With electrical you can?t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>>>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that?s less the
>>>>>>>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>>>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>>>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I?m
>>>>>>>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>>>>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>>>>>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>>>>>>>> who?s cars have caught on fire haven?t been crashes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>>>>>>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>>>>>>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>>>>>>>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>>>>>>>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>>>>>>>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV?s don?t have the motorway range
>>>>>>>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>>>>>>>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>>>>>>>> with low charge remaining, it?s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>>>>>>>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>>>>>>>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>>>>>>>> battery ages.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>>>>>>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>>>>>>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>>>>>>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doesn?t matter what American does or doesn?t do it?s a not the biggest
>>>>>>>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don?t
>>>>>>>> see any future that EV?s don?t dominate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
>>>>>>> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
>>>>>>> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
>>>>>>> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> He can say what he likes, that?s not where the markets are heading, or what
>>>>>> the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
>>>>>> total chaos as it?s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
>>>>>> record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
>>>>>> 2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is the direction the industry?s moving too which will not change what
>>>>>> ever America does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect that the shorter travel distances in Europe will make the
>>>>> EVs easier to own. On the other hand, Biden's pushing them as he has
>>>>> done is part of the reluctance to buying them. There are many folks in
>>>>> the USA who don't like being manipulated by the jackasses in the
>>>>> government.
>>>>>
>>>> It?s not the distances as after all number of large markets are
>>>> unsurprisingly large countries or areas most folks will not choose
>>>> routinely or at all to drive huge distances in one go, even for myself
>>>> where I have noted that most EV would add time on to my most common long
>>>> journey, the uk has chargers at all services at least on the motorways so
>>>> doable though slower, though by how much does depend on the car and
>>>> choices.
>>>>
>>>> Ie it?s not an insurmountable problem clearly still an evolving technology
>>>> and so on.
>>>>
>>>> But America unless I?m mistaken doesn?t do passenger trains and certainly
>>>> high speed stuff? Which most other big car markets do, China and Europe
>>>> have plenty and sleepers which are very civilised way to travel.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> We do have a few passenger trains. Unfortunately they're run by the
>>> jackasses in the government and much of the travel is by bus.
>>>
>> As ever isn’t a one fit solution but fast or High-Speed trains can do take
>> over short haul flights/cars etc.
>
> ...and I wish they would, however when the jackasses in the government
> get involved, they generally turn to sh*t.
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/us/california-high-speed-rail-politics.html
>
>> As ever has to be done right and so on, ie not on the cheap!
>
> There is a *privately owned* high speed passenger train in Florida
> running from Orlando to Miami. although it's average speed is only
> 70/80 MPH. I haven't seen any reviews of it.
>
> There's plans for extending to Orlando > Tampa, which, if succesfull,
> could lesson the current massive vehicle traffic on that 6 lane
> highway route.
>
> *
> https://www.gobrightline.com/train-stations
>
>> Roger Merriman
>>

Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 11:17:14 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:18:12 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 23:02:34 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>>>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With electrical you can?t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>>>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that?s less the
>>>>>>>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>>>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>>>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I?m
>>>>>>>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>>>>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>>>>>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>>>>>>>> who?s cars have caught on fire haven?t been crashes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>>>>>>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>>>>>>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>>>>>>>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>>>>>>>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>>>>>>>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV?s don?t have the motorway range
>>>>>>>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>>>>>>>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>>>>>>>> with low charge remaining, it?s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>>>>>>>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>>>>>>>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>>>>>>>> battery ages.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>>>>>>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>>>>>>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>>>>>>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doesn?t matter what American does or doesn?t do it?s a not the biggest
>>>>>>>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don?t
>>>>>>>> see any future that EV?s don?t dominate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
>>>>>>> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
>>>>>>> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
>>>>>>> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> He can say what he likes, that?s not where the markets are heading, or what
>>>>>> the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
>>>>>> total chaos as it?s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
>>>>>> record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
>>>>>> 2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is the direction the industry?s moving too which will not change what
>>>>>> ever America does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect that the shorter travel distances in Europe will make the
>>>>> EVs easier to own. On the other hand, Biden's pushing them as he has
>>>>> done is part of the reluctance to buying them. There are many folks in
>>>>> the USA who don't like being manipulated by the jackasses in the
>>>>> government.
>>>>>
>>>> It?s not the distances as after all number of large markets are
>>>> unsurprisingly large countries or areas most folks will not choose
>>>> routinely or at all to drive huge distances in one go, even for myself
>>>> where I have noted that most EV would add time on to my most common long
>>>> journey, the uk has chargers at all services at least on the motorways so
>>>> doable though slower, though by how much does depend on the car and
>>>> choices.
>>>>
>>>> Ie it?s not an insurmountable problem clearly still an evolving technology
>>>> and so on.
>>>>
>>>> But America unless I?m mistaken doesn?t do passenger trains and certainly
>>>> high speed stuff? Which most other big car markets do, China and Europe
>>>> have plenty and sleepers which are very civilised way to travel.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> We do have a few passenger trains. Unfortunately they're run by the
>>> jackasses in the government and much of the travel is by bus.
>>>
>> As ever isn’t a one fit solution but fast or High-Speed trains can do take
>> over short haul flights/cars etc.
>
> ...and I wish they would, however when the jackasses in the government
> get involved, they generally turn to sh*t.
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/us/california-high-speed-rail-politics.html
>
>> As ever has to be done right and so on, ie not on the cheap!
>
> There is a *privately owned* high speed passenger train in Florida
> running from Orlando to Miami. although it's average speed is only
> 70/80 MPH. I haven't seen any reviews of it.
>
Seems to be 120 ish mph so cutting edge for the 1970’s it’s what your
fairly standard intercity express train does, 120/140 depending on the
exact train, are slower shorter distance or not non express that are about
half the speed but they stop at every stop so high speed will not make much
difference for that sort of use.

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 1/25/2024 3:35 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 20:02:02 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/24/2024 6:41 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:18:12 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 23:02:34 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:41:56 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:34:44?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:19:06?PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/21/2024 11:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:47:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-lucid-air-dream-edition-burns-down-during-transport-cause-unknown
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can hardly wait to Frank's cover-up. Obviously being transported it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't charging and yet it burned down and the carrier operator was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky to escape with his life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From the above article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Right now, the cause of the fire is unverified; however, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believed to have originated in the tow vehicle's engine bay."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "There's a proven misconception that electric vehicles are more prone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to catching fire than their gas or diesel counterparts."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings]"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100K sales. Gas vehicles are second, and electric vehicles place
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you decided to move your alleged Ford Taurus X vehicle on a car
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carrier, and the carrier gas tank catches fire, what would you expect
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to happen to your vehicle? At best, the resulting gasoline fire would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be less destructive than an EV fire, but you would still end up with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned out mess. Granted, much depends on how much gasoline you were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carrying, as it would if the EV was being transported with a fully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charged battery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, you've previously claimed to be driving a (2007, 2008,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2009 or 2012) Ford Taurus or Taurus X.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/AakEwPY_PTw/m/SkzXdWPDAQAJ>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't see how he could drive the 2012 Taurus in 2017 and in 2022 (5
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years later) be driving a 2008 Taurus X, unless he first destroyed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Taurus."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe you. Could you post a photo of the vehicle in front of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your house?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to fuel dangers(gasoline, LiIon batteries, whatever)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generally. I have a healthy respect for gasoline after a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> direct experience. Same crispy result as any other fire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said about autos (and tangentially airplanes),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'classic' meat powered not-electric bicycles are almost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly not going to spontaneously immolate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed if one friend I know has had two cars ignite on her over a few years
>>>>>>>>>>>>> both ICE vehicles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With electrical you can?t take the unregulated E scooters and like on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> london Buses/trains etc as they had one to many fires, but that?s less the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> technology more the shoddy kit that folks are using, I have seen a bike
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a small petrol engine attached near work it looks so dodgy, unlike the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> old mopeds like my mum used to ride to school! Which look old but not I?m
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about to burst into flames!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roger, when did you EVER see an ICE vehicle catch own fire without being
>>>>>>>>>>>> in an accident? EV's light on fire seemingly of their own accord.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Passed one recently on the way to Heathrow no sign of crash but burning
>>>>>>>>>>> away, and diverting flights to the north runway, all of the folks I know
>>>>>>>>>>> who?s cars have caught on fire haven?t been crashes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well then I suggest that you should get an EV by all means. Apparently,
>>>>>>>>>> you and Flunky believe that EV's are safe and ICE vehicles are the most
>>>>>>>>>> dangerous things ever made by man-kind.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hardly your as ever cherry picking/using click bate articles and so on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For myself personally a car is quite low down in things I spend large
>>>>>>>>> amounts of money on, and so be a decade or more before I consider them, let
>>>>>>>>> alone nothing on the market that ticks my boxes ie want a estate so I can
>>>>>>>>> put bikes or stuff and just go. And most EV?s don?t have the motorway range
>>>>>>>>> to not be annoying driving to Wales in that would need to charge up, or
>>>>>>>>> risk driving though the Welsh hills which are a bit of desert for chargers
>>>>>>>>> with low charge remaining, it?s not a deal breaker but it would make a sub
>>>>>>>>> 3hr drive knocking on for 4 hours.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All of which will get solved both capacity and charging speed are
>>>>>>>>> increasing though older models do get slower charge speeds that new as the
>>>>>>>>> battery ages.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are 100,000,000 gas vehicles on the roads in the USA alone. There
>>>>>>>>>> are 3,000,000 EV's or plug in hybrids Statistica says that by 2030 there
>>>>>>>>>> will be an additional 75 million ICE vehicles on the roads here. Somehow
>>>>>>>>>> people don't believe Biden's belief in EV's.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doesn?t matter what American does or doesn?t do it?s a not the biggest
>>>>>>>>> market and the other big markets that is the direction they are going in.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And Elon Musk who is far from Woke, is quite friendly to Trump so I don?t
>>>>>>>>> see any future that EV?s don?t dominate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Trump does not have a history of promoting individual businesses over
>>>>>>>> their competition unless it's a US business and the competition is
>>>>>>>> foriegn. At any rate, he say's he intends to drill, drill, drill,
>>>>>>>> which doesn't favor the EV market.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He can say what he likes, that?s not where the markets are heading, or what
>>>>>>> the car industry wants, one of the plans by the uk government which is in
>>>>>>> total chaos as it?s managed to squander a huger majority to a probable
>>>>>>> record breaking loss they have to call a election this year.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But they mooted moving the date for all new cars sold being EV back from
>>>>>>> 2030 and the push back from the industry was clear!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is the direction the industry?s moving too which will not change what
>>>>>>> ever America does.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect that the shorter travel distances in Europe will make the
>>>>>> EVs easier to own. On the other hand, Biden's pushing them as he has
>>>>>> done is part of the reluctance to buying them. There are many folks in
>>>>>> the USA who don't like being manipulated by the jackasses in the
>>>>>> government.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It’s not the distances as after all number of large markets are
>>>>> unsurprisingly large countries or areas most folks will not choose
>>>>> routinely or at all to drive huge distances in one go, even for myself
>>>>> where I have noted that most EV would add time on to my most common long
>>>>> journey, the uk has chargers at all services at least on the motorways so
>>>>> doable though slower, though by how much does depend on the car and
>>>>> choices.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ie it’s not an insurmountable problem clearly still an evolving technology
>>>>> and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> But America unless I’m mistaken doesn’t do passenger trains and certainly
>>>>> high speed stuff? Which most other big car markets do, China and Europe
>>>>> have plenty and sleepers which are very civilised way to travel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> We do have a few passenger trains. Unfortunately they're run by the
>>>> jackasses in the government and much of the travel is by bus.
>>>
>>> That was once true.
>>>
>>> Intercity bus travel now is like camping out with the bums
>>> and addicts in a park. My most recent adventure was 10 years
>>> ago (to Memphis to pick up a car) and the systems have
>>> declined greatly since.
>>>
>>> https://dailyfriend.co.za/2024/01/07/greyhound-is-losing-its-iconic-bus-stations/
>>>
>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/intercity-bus-terminals-are-closing-because-hedge-funds-are-scooping-them-up/ar-AA1lUieH
>>>
>>> They are out of revenue and out of ideas. The terminal
>>> properties are highly leveraged, many sold and leased back
>>> and now the bus operators can't even pay the rent.
>>
>> I didn't know it had gotten so bad. The last time I rode a bus was in
>> Mexico, many years ago. The bus was a smelly old wreck. The seats were
>> broken and worn, but my riding companions were a delight. There was
>> singing and even dancing in the aisle. Down-home Mexican culture at
>> it's best.
>
> Agreed about buses in Mexico. Here, there's smell, noise,
> vomit, periodic screaming matches and general filth. And
> that was a decade ago.

On 1/25/2024 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Agreed about buses in Mexico. Here, there's smell, noise, vomit,
> periodic screaming matches and general filth. And that was a decade ago.

That must vary greatly by location. I vary rarely use buses, but I
haven't seen nor heard of those problems on our local system. I have
friends who are big fans of the system.

I recall a bus ride in New Mexico (maybe Taos?) some years ago. We rode
from a campground into the center of town. Not only was the bus very
clean and precisely on time, but it became a social occasion. People on
board were very friendly and conversation was lively and pleasant.

Just thought I'd throw in a word for the _good_ tail of the normal
curve! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/25/2024 9:07 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Bright Line review:
> https://onemileatatime.com/brightline-train-review/
>
> But that's a privately funded/managed system so measured on a different
> scale from public transport...

We've used trains in Europe many times. Our only difficulties were
minor, and had to do with the fact we were taking bicycles with us, and
sometimes bicycle trailers.

The French TGV was especially nice.

Those governments are able to make mass transit work. For better or
worse, U.S. government is ~100% about subsidizing cars.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/25/2024 9:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/25/2024 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> Agreed about buses in Mexico. Here, there's smell, noise,
>> vomit, periodic screaming matches and general filth. And
>> that was a decade ago.
>
> That must vary greatly by location. I vary rarely use buses,
> but I haven't seen nor heard of those problems on our local
> system. I have friends who are big fans of the system.
>
> I recall a bus ride in New Mexico (maybe Taos?) some years
> ago. We rode from a campground into the center of town. Not
> only was the bus very clean and precisely on time, but it
> became a social occasion. People on board were very friendly
> and conversation was lively and pleasant.
>
> Just thought I'd throw in a word for the _good_ tail of the
> normal curve!  ;-)
>

That comports with my experiences in the late 1960s and
early 1970s but a lot has changed and not only on intercity
buses.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/25/2024 9:37 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/25/2024 9:07 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> Bright Line review:
>> https://onemileatatime.com/brightline-train-review/
>>
>> But that's a privately funded/managed system so measured
>> on a different scale from public transport...
>
> We've used trains in Europe many times. Our only
> difficulties were minor, and had to do with the fact we were
> taking bicycles with us, and sometimes bicycle trailers.
>
> The French TGV was especially nice.
>
> Those governments are able to make mass transit work. For
> better or worse, U.S. government is ~100% about subsidizing
> cars.
>

Our Federal government took over the auto industry with
regulatory impediments, tax and tariff policy, labor
influence and so on more than direct subsidies.

Mass transit is but a niggling dysfunctional afterthought
for Federal budgets, a mere $22 billion or so:

https://www.masstransitmag.com/management/article/21262106/presidents-fy23-budget-requests-211-billion-for-transit-179-billion-for-rail

Enough to grease the proper palms (politically allied
Governors, Mayors, various functionaries and factota) but
not enough to actually change anything. This is BTW not
unique to any one administration and hasn't been logical or
defensible for decades, even before ConRail and Amtrack.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 10:21:30 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 1/25/2024 9:37 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/25/2024 9:07 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> Bright Line review:
>>> https://onemileatatime.com/brightline-train-review/
>>>
>>> But that's a privately funded/managed system so measured
>>> on a different scale from public transport...
>>
>> We've used trains in Europe many times. Our only
>> difficulties were minor, and had to do with the fact we were
>> taking bicycles with us, and sometimes bicycle trailers.
>>
>> The French TGV was especially nice.
>>
>> Those governments are able to make mass transit work. For
>> better or worse, U.S. government is ~100% about subsidizing
>> cars.
>>
>
>Our Federal government took over the auto industry with
>regulatory impediments, tax and tariff policy, labor
>influence and so on more than direct subsidies.
>
>Mass transit is but a niggling dysfunctional afterthought
>for Federal budgets, a mere $22 billion or so:
>
>https://www.masstransitmag.com/management/article/21262106/presidents-fy23-budget-requests-211-billion-for-transit-179-billion-for-rail
>
>Enough to grease the proper palms (politically allied
>Governors, Mayors, various functionaries and factota) but
>not enough to actually change anything. This is BTW not
>unique to any one administration and hasn't been logical or
>defensible for decades, even before ConRail and Amtrack.

Air travel is the most heavily subsidized travel. It was what ran
private passenger rail out of business. Florida's hi speed rail is
about too far to drive and to short to fly.

https://www.transportenvironment.org/challenges/planes/subsidies-in-aviation/

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 10:14:47 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 1/25/2024 9:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/25/2024 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> Agreed about buses in Mexico. Here, there's smell, noise,
>>> vomit, periodic screaming matches and general filth. And
>>> that was a decade ago.
>>
>> That must vary greatly by location. I vary rarely use buses,
>> but I haven't seen nor heard of those problems on our local
>> system. I have friends who are big fans of the system.
>>
>> I recall a bus ride in New Mexico (maybe Taos?) some years
>> ago. We rode from a campground into the center of town. Not
>> only was the bus very clean and precisely on time, but it
>> became a social occasion. People on board were very friendly
>> and conversation was lively and pleasant.
>>
>> Just thought I'd throw in a word for the _good_ tail of the
>> normal curve!  ;-)
>>
>
>That comports with my experiences in the late 1960s and
>early 1970s but a lot has changed and not only on intercity
>buses.

Mass transit today is like wandering around among the cattle in a
stock yard.

On 1/25/2024 11:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/25/2024 9:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/25/2024 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> Agreed about buses in Mexico. Here, there's smell, noise, vomit,
>>> periodic screaming matches and general filth. And that was a decade ago.
>>
>> That must vary greatly by location. I vary rarely use buses, but I
>> haven't seen nor heard of those problems on our local system. I have
>> friends who are big fans of the system.
>>
>> I recall a bus ride in New Mexico (maybe Taos?) some years ago. We
>> rode from a campground into the center of town. Not only was the bus
>> very clean and precisely on time, but it became a social occasion.
>> People on board were very friendly and conversation was lively and
>> pleasant.
>>
>> Just thought I'd throw in a word for the _good_ tail of the normal
>> curve!  ;-)
>>
>
> That comports with my experiences in the late 1960s and early 1970s but
> a lot has changed and not only on intercity buses.

My visits to Portland, Oregon were mostly between 1995 and 2010. Buses,
trolleys and light rail there all worked well for us. No problems with
cleanliness or anything else except sometimes the light rail was pretty
crowded.

--
- Frank Krygowski