Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?

On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?

Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).

Tom 2G

It really is a shame how much of this forum is about stoking this argument again and again, as if there wasn't enough other stuff to talk about

The launch is a small fraction of the flight, however it happens, and most flights do not end in any form of retrieve

I don't have one, but I'm not opposed to the possibility of it happening in future, though unlikely. I doubt this is a rare opinion. I understand a large proportion of new gliders are so equipped, but we aren't all in for new gliders.

On Monday, 15 May 2023 at 03:08:09 UTC+1, 2G wrote:
> Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
>
> On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
>
> Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
>
> Tom 2G

On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 4:25:39 AM UTC-7, andy l wrote:
> It really is a shame how much of this forum is about stoking this argument again and again, as if there wasn't enough other stuff to talk about
>
> The launch is a small fraction of the flight, however it happens, and most flights do not end in any form of retrieve
>
> I don't have one, but I'm not opposed to the possibility of it happening in future, though unlikely. I doubt this is a rare opinion. I understand a large proportion of new gliders are so equipped, but we aren't all in for new gliders.
> On Monday, 15 May 2023 at 03:08:09 UTC+1, 2G wrote:
> > Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
> >
> > On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
> >
> > Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
> >
> > Tom 2G
In Old Bob's case, it's not the launch part that bothers him, it's the ability to self-retrieve. For him, it's a personal and emotional decision, not a practical or logical reasons that will sway other pilots. That's not a bad way to make the choice; after all, "personal and emotional" is how most of us decided to fly gliders. Pilots using practical reasons for the towed/motor choice will be looking at the purchase costs, complexity, and operating expenses that come with increased freedom of operation, are not "purity-seekers", and won't pay any attention to Old Bob.

I've treated him as a useful foil to spread information about the value and costs of motorgliders. So, I suspect Old Bob has drawn additional attention to motorgliders, and this has, perhaps, increased the number of pilots interested in them.

Their discussion doesn't sway me at all and, I suspect, it doesn't sway
anyone else, either.

I bought a motorglider for the simple reason of convenience:

no waiting in line on the really good days,
not missing a good day because there's no tow available,
ability to self retrieve after a land out on a paved airport.

On the other hand:

engine might break, burn, not start,
higher empty weight a disadvantage on weak days,
the land where I fly is too rough for a takeoff so I must have a decent
airport within range at all times,
higher maintenance,
steeper learning curve
no trailer.

In balance, the motor glider (in my opinion) is more of a hassle than a
pure glider but, for me, it allows me to fly whenever I want and take my
wife with me. She loves flying it, too!

Dan
5J

On 5/15/23 05:25, andy l wrote:
> It really is a shame how much of this forum is about stoking this argument again and again, as if there wasn't enough other stuff to talk about
>
> The launch is a small fraction of the flight, however it happens, and most flights do not end in any form of retrieve
>
> I don't have one, but I'm not opposed to the possibility of it happening in future, though unlikely. I doubt this is a rare opinion. I understand a large proportion of new gliders are so equipped, but we aren't all in for new gliders.
>
> On Monday, 15 May 2023 at 03:08:09 UTC+1, 2G wrote:
>> Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
>>
>> On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
>>
>> Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
>>
>> Tom 2G

On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 11:09:48 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 4:25:39 AM UTC-7, andy l wrote:
> > It really is a shame how much of this forum is about stoking this argument again and again, as if there wasn't enough other stuff to talk about
> >
> > The launch is a small fraction of the flight, however it happens, and most flights do not end in any form of retrieve
> >
> > I don't have one, but I'm not opposed to the possibility of it happening in future, though unlikely. I doubt this is a rare opinion. I understand a large proportion of new gliders are so equipped, but we aren't all in for new gliders.
> > On Monday, 15 May 2023 at 03:08:09 UTC+1, 2G wrote:
> > > Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
> > >
> > > On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
> > >
> > > Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
> > >
> > > Tom 2G
> In Old Bob's case, it's not the launch part that bothers him, it's the ability to self-retrieve. For him, it's a personal and emotional decision, not a practical or logical reasons that will sway other pilots. That's not a bad way to make the choice; after all, "personal and emotional" is how most of us decided to fly gliders. Pilots using practical reasons for the towed/motor choice will be looking at the purchase costs, complexity, and operating expenses that come with increased freedom of operation, are not "purity-seekers", and won't pay any attention to Old Bob.
>
> I've treated him as a useful foil to spread information about the value and costs of motorgliders. So, I suspect Old Bob has drawn additional attention to motorgliders, and this has, perhaps, increased the number of pilots interested in them.

Eric, perhaps you have finally figured out that my opinions are exactly what they should be, MY OPINION, and should not nor intended to sway any individual from enjoying their choice of sailplane. I have even stated that someday when I cannot get a tow I might strongly consider a self launch. I could not see myself with a sustainer type, although they certainly are popular and just as beautiful as a pure glider as long as it has the get me home gadget hidden within the fuselage.
My basic contention is that the pure glider presents the pilot with much more and better decision making opportunities. I also think that the scoring system should reflect the difference between a pure glider and a motorglider. What I have been very successful at is bringing out the insecurities of pilots like Tommy, and I fly with many motorglider pilots and contrary to what most people think we all get a few laughs out of the whole RAS venue. The conclusion that I offer is that most of the MG guys are would much too tight, they are about as weak as the crankshaft on those Jurassic Solo engines, the Wankel engine guys are much better except for Terrible Tommy.
Now most of the MG guys think that landing out is a terrible thing, I have never had that belief, landing out is part of the game, it builds character and keeps your skills at a higher level that pushing the GMH button. I always leave the keys to my truck on the console when I fly, there is cash for fuel if needed and my trailer is stored inside and everything needed for the return home, Eileen is very capable of driving the truck and trailer. OBTP

On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 9:08:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
>
> On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
>
> Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
>
> Tom 2G
I used to really enjoy the comaraderie and accepting attitudes of RAS.
I always felt that if I needed advice that the group would be gentle and
truly helpful. I now feel alienated from RAS and I am going to discontinue
reading and sometimes posting on this group due to the divisiveness
and negative attitudes of many recent people posting here. Goodbye.

When I flew single-seat pure gliders, I always found land outs to be
exciting adventures. I met new people, drank home made beer, got bitten
by a dog once, had dinner out... What's the down side, except getting
bitten?

A few days ago my buddy was on a declared 300 km flight and was getting
low about 2/3 of the way around. I radioed that I would land, hook up
his trailer, and be on the road within a half hour. As I blew off my
altitude, he made a low save and was back on course.

I'd used up my altitude but I had stuff to do in the hangar so I landed
anyway, and got to work. A couple of hours later he texted me that he'd
landed out just 12 miles short of the finish (on a small air park) and
he got a ride in a Kitfox back to Moriarty. He retrieved himself, but
bought me dinner, anyway.

The adventure of landing out is not to be taken lightly!

Dan
5J

On 5/15/23 13:16, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:

> Eric, perhaps you have finally figured out that my opinions are exactly what they should be, MY OPINION, and should not nor intended to sway any individual from enjoying their choice of sailplane. I have even stated that someday when I cannot get a tow I might strongly consider a self launch. I could not see myself with a sustainer type, although they certainly are popular and just as beautiful as a pure glider as long as it has the get me home gadget hidden within the fuselage.
> My basic contention is that the pure glider presents the pilot with much more and better decision making opportunities. I also think that the scoring system should reflect the difference between a pure glider and a motorglider. What I have been very successful at is bringing out the insecurities of pilots like Tommy, and I fly with many motorglider pilots and contrary to what most people think we all get a few laughs out of the whole RAS venue. The conclusion that I offer is that most of the MG guys are would much too tight, they are about as weak as the crankshaft on those Jurassic Solo engines, the Wankel engine guys are much better except for Terrible Tommy.
> Now most of the MG guys think that landing out is a terrible thing, I have never had that belief, landing out is part of the game, it builds character and keeps your skills at a higher level that pushing the GMH button. I always leave the keys to my truck on the console when I fly, there is cash for fuel if needed and my trailer is stored inside and everything needed for the return home, Eileen is very capable of driving the truck and trailer. OBTP

On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, robert holliday wrote:
> On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 9:08:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> > Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
> >
> > On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
> >
> > Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
> >
> > Tom 2G
> I used to really enjoy the comaraderie and accepting attitudes of RAS.
> I always felt that if I needed advice that the group would be gentle and
> truly helpful. I now feel alienated from RAS and I am going to discontinue
> reading and sometimes posting on this group due to the divisiveness
> and negative attitudes of many recent people posting here. Goodbye.

Mr Holliday, apparently some are more easily "triggered' or offended than others. I find most of the repartee here very amusing. However if you want to see some attacks and offensive comments, find my post about getting the FAA involved in prohibiting the Schweizer type hook on tow planes. I take life with a grain of salt and a root beer float, I suggest you do the same.. People are a$$holes most of the time and the rest of the time too.

Walt Connelly
Former tow pilot
Now happy helicopter pilot

On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:01:55 AM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, robert holliday wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 9:08:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> > > Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
> > >
> > > On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
> > >
> > > Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
> > >
> > > Tom 2G
> > I used to really enjoy the comaraderie and accepting attitudes of RAS.
> > I always felt that if I needed advice that the group would be gentle and
> > truly helpful. I now feel alienated from RAS and I am going to discontinue
> > reading and sometimes posting on this group due to the divisiveness
> > and negative attitudes of many recent people posting here. Goodbye.
> Mr Holliday, apparently some are more easily "triggered' or offended than others. I find most of the repartee here very amusing. However if you want to see some attacks and offensive comments, find my post about getting the FAA involved in prohibiting the Schweizer type hook on tow planes. I take life with a grain of salt and a root beer float, I suggest you do the same. People are a$$holes most of the time and the rest of the time too.
>
> Walt Connelly
> Former tow pilot
> Now happy helicopter pilot

To be honest I find OBTP amusing most of the time.
2G not so much. He seem to take OBTP way too seriously, which I think is why OBTP keep trolling him…
To answer 2G poll, as I am aging and may start finding landouts less desiring I am actually getting closer to putting my first order for a motorglider.

Ramy

On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:01:55 AM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, robert holliday wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 9:08:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> > > Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
> > >
> > > On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
> > >
> > > Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
> > >
> > > Tom 2G
> > I used to really enjoy the comaraderie and accepting attitudes of RAS.
> > I always felt that if I needed advice that the group would be gentle and
> > truly helpful. I now feel alienated from RAS and I am going to discontinue
> > reading and sometimes posting on this group due to the divisiveness
> > and negative attitudes of many recent people posting here. Goodbye.
> Mr Holliday, apparently some are more easily "triggered' or offended than others. I find most of the repartee here very amusing. However if you want to see some attacks and offensive comments, find my post about getting the FAA involved in prohibiting the Schweizer type hook on tow planes. I take life with a grain of salt and a root beer float, I suggest you do the same. People are a$$holes most of the time and the rest of the time too.
>
> Walt Connelly
> Former tow pilot
> Now happy helicopter pilot

On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 4:09:07 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
> To be honest I find OBTP amusing most of the time.
> 2G not so much. He seem to take OBTP way too seriously, which I think is why OBTP keep trolling him…
> To answer 2G poll, as I am aging and may start finding landouts less desiring I am actually getting closer to putting my first order for a motorglider.
What took you so long, Ramy? Get that self-launch motorglider, don't look back. The '29 is a fantastic glider but you can do even better.
Herb

On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 5:09:07 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> To be honest I find OBTP amusing most of the time.
> 2G not so much. He seem to take OBTP way too seriously, which I think is why OBTP keep trolling him…
> To answer 2G poll, as I am aging and may start finding landouts less desiring I am actually getting closer to putting my first order for a motorglider.
>
> Ramy
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:01:55 AM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> > On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, robert holliday wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 9:08:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> > > > Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
> > > >
> > > > On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
> > > >
> > > > Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
> > > >
> > > > Tom 2G
> > > I used to really enjoy the comaraderie and accepting attitudes of RAS..
> > > I always felt that if I needed advice that the group would be gentle and
> > > truly helpful. I now feel alienated from RAS and I am going to discontinue
> > > reading and sometimes posting on this group due to the divisiveness
> > > and negative attitudes of many recent people posting here. Goodbye.
> > Mr Holliday, apparently some are more easily "triggered' or offended than others. I find most of the repartee here very amusing. However if you want to see some attacks and offensive comments, find my post about getting the FAA involved in prohibiting the Schweizer type hook on tow planes. I take life with a grain of salt and a root beer float, I suggest you do the same. People are a$$holes most of the time and the rest of the time too.
> >
> > Walt Connelly
> > Former tow pilot
> > Now happy helicopter pilot
I spent most of the day getting stuck with needles and the nurse asking me, "Did That Hurt"??? hell yes it hurt, that is why I came back for more!
Now let me make this loud and clear, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SELF LAUNCH SAILPLANES, but please do not expose yourself after the launch!!! I promise all of you that if and when I have a self launch sailplane I will NEVER expose myself to get home, perverts do that in the parking lot at Wal Mart, I had rather land in the swamp than start that smelly engine. Now let the facts confirm what I have always said about my problem with motorgliders . We all or most of us look at OLC as a reference to how well we do compared to others when we fly, I certainly do, I look at myself compared to others flights within the same area and region. I have always stated that the scoring between motorgliders and PURE gliders is skewed, not only is it skewed, but there is a huge difference in decision making between the two. Let me give you a good example, just yesterday I looked at the OLC flights and noticed a motorglider in my neck of the woods scoring well and I immediately had to dissect the flight on OLC. The Motorglider climbed to over 9K AGL shut the engine down and was awarded points from that point being a pure glider, I had rather drink a case of BUD LIGHT that get those kind of points. So my point once again is that there is a difference in skills between the moto glide pilot and the PURIST, I would be embarrassed to take points for something like that, it is like kissing your sister, you could do better or you could do worse!
Yes, like Ramy once said, "OBTP Is Like A Train Wreck, You Gotta Stop And Look".
Guys, loosen up, life is short, have fun and stir the pot, but don't let your friends fly those damn motorgliders. OBTP

Herb I think it took you a little longer than me…
I am still looking for an electric solution which is good enough for me.

Ramy

On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 2:21:37 PM UTC-7, Herbert Kilian wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 4:09:07 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
> > To be honest I find OBTP amusing most of the time.
> > 2G not so much. He seem to take OBTP way too seriously, which I think is why OBTP keep trolling him…
> > To answer 2G poll, as I am aging and may start finding landouts less desiring I am actually getting closer to putting my first order for a motorglider.
> What took you so long, Ramy? Get that self-launch motorglider, don't look back. The '29 is a fantastic glider but you can do even better.
> Herb

On 5/16/23 3:09 PM, Ramy wrote:
> To be honest I find OBTP amusing most of the time.

You and about three other people.

> 2G not so much. He seem to take OBTP way too seriously, which I think is why OBTP keep trolling him…

Exactly. His(?) postings aren't about motorgliders, they're just
endless flamebbaiting, to get attention. It's not just Tom, it's Eric
and a few others that constantly take the bait, which keeps him going.

People have learned not to respond to Daryl Kabatoff, you'd think they
would figure out OBTP eventually. The only difference is Daryl actually
makes sense.

> To answer 2G poll, as I am aging and may start finding landouts less desiring I am actually getting closer to putting my first order for a motorglider.

Excellent! Can we assume it's going to be the vaunted Jeta you've often
posted about? Get yourself a Honda generator and save the planet! One
more coal-fired glider would probably bring down the grid.

- Dave

P.S. Don't go for the "49 State" Honda, those are banned in the great
state of California!

>
> Ramy
>
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:01:55 AM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, robert holliday wrote:
>>> On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 9:08:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
>>>> Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
>>>>
>>>> Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
>>>>
>>>> Tom 2G
>>> I used to really enjoy the comaraderie and accepting attitudes of RAS.
>>> I always felt that if I needed advice that the group would be gentle and
>>> truly helpful. I now feel alienated from RAS and I am going to discontinue
>>> reading and sometimes posting on this group due to the divisiveness
>>> and negative attitudes of many recent people posting here. Goodbye.
>> Mr Holliday, apparently some are more easily "triggered' or offended than others. I find most of the repartee here very amusing. However if you want to see some attacks and offensive comments, find my post about getting the FAA involved in prohibiting the Schweizer type hook on tow planes. I take life with a grain of salt and a root beer float, I suggest you do the same. People are a$$holes most of the time and the rest of the time too.
>>
>> Walt Connelly
>> Former tow pilot
>> Now happy helicopter pilot

LOL, I never thought of it in terms of exposing oneself. I will never look at an exposed motor the same again.
As for OLC point you wrong obtp, you don’t get the whole 9000 feet climb, the scoring stops 3300 feet below start altitude at the end of the flight. The extra climb only give you extra range to get to lift, but in the west we sometime take nearly that high of a tow from the same reason.

Ramy

On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 3:07:08 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 5:09:07 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> > To be honest I find OBTP amusing most of the time.
> > 2G not so much. He seem to take OBTP way too seriously, which I think is why OBTP keep trolling him…
> > To answer 2G poll, as I am aging and may start finding landouts less desiring I am actually getting closer to putting my first order for a motorglider.
> >
> > Ramy
> > On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:01:55 AM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, robert holliday wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 9:08:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> > > > > Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
> > > > >
> > > > > On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
> > > > >
> > > > > Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom 2G
> > > > I used to really enjoy the comaraderie and accepting attitudes of RAS.
> > > > I always felt that if I needed advice that the group would be gentle and
> > > > truly helpful. I now feel alienated from RAS and I am going to discontinue
> > > > reading and sometimes posting on this group due to the divisiveness
> > > > and negative attitudes of many recent people posting here. Goodbye.
> > > Mr Holliday, apparently some are more easily "triggered' or offended than others. I find most of the repartee here very amusing. However if you want to see some attacks and offensive comments, find my post about getting the FAA involved in prohibiting the Schweizer type hook on tow planes. I take life with a grain of salt and a root beer float, I suggest you do the same. People are a$$holes most of the time and the rest of the time too.
> > >
> > > Walt Connelly
> > > Former tow pilot
> > > Now happy helicopter pilot
> I spent most of the day getting stuck with needles and the nurse asking me, "Did That Hurt"??? hell yes it hurt, that is why I came back for more!
> Now let me make this loud and clear, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SELF LAUNCH SAILPLANES, but please do not expose yourself after the launch!!! I promise all of you that if and when I have a self launch sailplane I will NEVER expose myself to get home, perverts do that in the parking lot at Wal Mart, I had rather land in the swamp than start that smelly engine. Now let the facts confirm what I have always said about my problem with motorgliders . We all or most of us look at OLC as a reference to how well we do compared to others when we fly, I certainly do, I look at myself compared to others flights within the same area and region. I have always stated that the scoring between motorgliders and PURE gliders is skewed, not only is it skewed, but there is a huge difference in decision making between the two. Let me give you a good example, just yesterday I looked at the OLC flights and noticed a motorglider in my neck of the woods scoring well and I immediately had to dissect the flight on OLC. The Motorglider climbed to over 9K AGL shut the engine down and was awarded points from that point being a pure glider, I had rather drink a case of BUD LIGHT that get those kind of points. So my point once again is that there is a difference in skills between the moto glide pilot and the PURIST, I would be embarrassed to take points for something like that, it is like kissing your sister, you could do better or you could do worse!
> Yes, like Ramy once said, "OBTP Is Like A Train Wreck, You Gotta Stop And Look".
> Guys, loosen up, life is short, have fun and stir the pot, but don't let your friends fly those damn motorgliders. OBTP

Dave, I never considered nor even mentioned the Jeta.
Maybe a JS3 RES or AS33ME. or FES?

Ramy

On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 5:36:24 PM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
> On 5/16/23 3:09 PM, Ramy wrote:
> > To be honest I find OBTP amusing most of the time.
> You and about three other people.
> > 2G not so much. He seem to take OBTP way too seriously, which I think is why OBTP keep trolling him…
> Exactly. His(?) postings aren't about motorgliders, they're just
> endless flamebbaiting, to get attention. It's not just Tom, it's Eric
> and a few others that constantly take the bait, which keeps him going.
>
> People have learned not to respond to Daryl Kabatoff, you'd think they
> would figure out OBTP eventually. The only difference is Daryl actually
> makes sense.
> > To answer 2G poll, as I am aging and may start finding landouts less desiring I am actually getting closer to putting my first order for a motorglider.
> Excellent! Can we assume it's going to be the vaunted Jeta you've often
> posted about? Get yourself a Honda generator and save the planet! One
> more coal-fired glider would probably bring down the grid.
>
> - Dave
>
> P.S. Don't go for the "49 State" Honda, those are banned in the great
> state of California!
> >
> > Ramy
> >
> > On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:01:55 AM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> >> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, robert holliday wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 9:08:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> >>>> Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
> >>>>
> >>>> On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
> >>>>
> >>>> Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom 2G
> >>> I used to really enjoy the comaraderie and accepting attitudes of RAS..
> >>> I always felt that if I needed advice that the group would be gentle and
> >>> truly helpful. I now feel alienated from RAS and I am going to discontinue
> >>> reading and sometimes posting on this group due to the divisiveness
> >>> and negative attitudes of many recent people posting here. Goodbye.
> >> Mr Holliday, apparently some are more easily "triggered' or offended than others. I find most of the repartee here very amusing. However if you want to see some attacks and offensive comments, find my post about getting the FAA involved in prohibiting the Schweizer type hook on tow planes. I take life with a grain of salt and a root beer float, I suggest you do the same. People are a$$holes most of the time and the rest of the time too.
> >>
> >> Walt Connelly
> >> Former tow pilot
> >> Now happy helicopter pilot

On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 3:07:08 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 5:09:07 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> > To be honest I find OBTP amusing most of the time.
> > 2G not so much. He seem to take OBTP way too seriously, which I think is why OBTP keep trolling him…
> > To answer 2G poll, as I am aging and may start finding landouts less desiring I am actually getting closer to putting my first order for a motorglider.
> >
> > Ramy
> > On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:01:55 AM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, robert holliday wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 9:08:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> > > > > Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
> > > > >
> > > > > On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
> > > > >
> > > > > Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom 2G
> > > > I used to really enjoy the comaraderie and accepting attitudes of RAS.
> > > > I always felt that if I needed advice that the group would be gentle and
> > > > truly helpful. I now feel alienated from RAS and I am going to discontinue
> > > > reading and sometimes posting on this group due to the divisiveness
> > > > and negative attitudes of many recent people posting here. Goodbye.
> > > Mr Holliday, apparently some are more easily "triggered' or offended than others. I find most of the repartee here very amusing. However if you want to see some attacks and offensive comments, find my post about getting the FAA involved in prohibiting the Schweizer type hook on tow planes. I take life with a grain of salt and a root beer float, I suggest you do the same. People are a$$holes most of the time and the rest of the time too.
> > >
> > > Walt Connelly
> > > Former tow pilot
> > > Now happy helicopter pilot
> I spent most of the day getting stuck with needles and the nurse asking me, "Did That Hurt"??? hell yes it hurt, that is why I came back for more!
> Now let me make this loud and clear, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SELF LAUNCH SAILPLANES, but please do not expose yourself after the launch!!! I promise all of you that if and when I have a self launch sailplane I will NEVER expose myself to get home, perverts do that in the parking lot at Wal Mart, I had rather land in the swamp than start that smelly engine. Now let the facts confirm what I have always said about my problem with motorgliders . We all or most of us look at OLC as a reference to how well we do compared to others when we fly, I certainly do, I look at myself compared to others flights within the same area and region. I have always stated that the scoring between motorgliders and PURE gliders is skewed, not only is it skewed, but there is a huge difference in decision making between the two. Let me give you a good example, just yesterday I looked at the OLC flights and noticed a motorglider in my neck of the woods scoring well and I immediately had to dissect the flight on OLC. The Motorglider climbed to over 9K AGL shut the engine down and was awarded points from that point being a pure glider, I had rather drink a case of BUD LIGHT that get those kind of points. So my point once again is that there is a difference in skills between the moto glide pilot and the PURIST, I would be embarrassed to take points for something like that, it is like kissing your sister, you could do better or you could do worse!
> Yes, like Ramy once said, "OBTP Is Like A Train Wreck, You Gotta Stop And Look".
> Guys, loosen up, life is short, have fun and stir the pot, but don't let your friends fly those damn motorgliders. OBTP

On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 3:07:08 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 5:09:07 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> > To be honest I find OBTP amusing most of the time.
> > 2G not so much. He seem to take OBTP way too seriously, which I think is why OBTP keep trolling him…
> > To answer 2G poll, as I am aging and may start finding landouts less desiring I am actually getting closer to putting my first order for a motorglider.
> >
> > Ramy
> > On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:01:55 AM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, robert holliday wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 9:08:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> > > > > Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
> > > > >
> > > > > On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
> > > > >
> > > > > Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom 2G
> > > > I used to really enjoy the comaraderie and accepting attitudes of RAS.
> > > > I always felt that if I needed advice that the group would be gentle and
> > > > truly helpful. I now feel alienated from RAS and I am going to discontinue
> > > > reading and sometimes posting on this group due to the divisiveness
> > > > and negative attitudes of many recent people posting here. Goodbye.
> > > Mr Holliday, apparently some are more easily "triggered' or offended than others. I find most of the repartee here very amusing. However if you want to see some attacks and offensive comments, find my post about getting the FAA involved in prohibiting the Schweizer type hook on tow planes. I take life with a grain of salt and a root beer float, I suggest you do the same. People are a$$holes most of the time and the rest of the time too.
> > >
> > > Walt Connelly
> > > Former tow pilot
> > > Now happy helicopter pilot
> I spent most of the day getting stuck with needles and the nurse asking me, "Did That Hurt"??? hell yes it hurt, that is why I came back for more!
> Now let me make this loud and clear, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SELF LAUNCH SAILPLANES, but please do not expose yourself after the launch!!! I promise all of you that if and when I have a self launch sailplane I will NEVER expose myself to get home, perverts do that in the parking lot at Wal Mart, I had rather land in the swamp than start that smelly engine. Now let the facts confirm what I have always said about my problem with motorgliders . We all or most of us look at OLC as a reference to how well we do compared to others when we fly, I certainly do, I look at myself compared to others flights within the same area and region. I have always stated that the scoring between motorgliders and PURE gliders is skewed, not only is it skewed, but there is a huge difference in decision making between the two. Let me give you a good example, just yesterday I looked at the OLC flights and noticed a motorglider in my neck of the woods scoring well and I immediately had to dissect the flight on OLC. The Motorglider climbed to over 9K AGL shut the engine down and was awarded points from that point being a pure glider, I had rather drink a case of BUD LIGHT that get those kind of points. So my point once again is that there is a difference in skills between the moto glide pilot and the PURIST, I would be embarrassed to take points for something like that, it is like kissing your sister, you could do better or you could do worse!
> Yes, like Ramy once said, "OBTP Is Like A Train Wreck, You Gotta Stop And Look".
> Guys, loosen up, life is short, have fun and stir the pot, but don't let your friends fly those damn motorgliders. OBTP
As Ramy points out, OLC/FAI scoring requires the finish be no more than 1000M below the start of scoring, which may or may not be where the engine is stopped. Note that a towed glider can also be towed to 9000' to start a soaring flight, and is scored the same way as a motorglider that has self-launched to 9000'. It is surprising that someone who claims to have so much experience over so many years of flying with so many different pilots didn't know one of the most basic FAI scoring rules.

I suggest you consider an electric self-launch glider with it's simplicity and reduced maintenance compared to a combustion glider. It's smaller self-retrieve range would not be an impediment to someone determined to never self-retrieve.

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:26:29 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 3:07:08 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 5:09:07 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> > > To be honest I find OBTP amusing most of the time.
> > > 2G not so much. He seem to take OBTP way too seriously, which I think is why OBTP keep trolling him…
> > > To answer 2G poll, as I am aging and may start finding landouts less desiring I am actually getting closer to putting my first order for a motorglider.
> > >
> > > Ramy
> > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:01:55 AM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, robert holliday wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 9:08:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> > > > > > Boobie has been posting much derogatory, mostly false, opinions on motorgliders for some time now. Have ANY of you canceled your MG order and switched to a motorless glider because of this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the other hand, have ANY of you canceled your motorless glider order and switched to an MG?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please, I am interested ONLY in serious replies (hint: Boobie, DON'T reply!).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom 2G
> > > > > I used to really enjoy the comaraderie and accepting attitudes of RAS.
> > > > > I always felt that if I needed advice that the group would be gentle and
> > > > > truly helpful. I now feel alienated from RAS and I am going to discontinue
> > > > > reading and sometimes posting on this group due to the divisiveness
> > > > > and negative attitudes of many recent people posting here. Goodbye.
> > > > Mr Holliday, apparently some are more easily "triggered' or offended than others. I find most of the repartee here very amusing. However if you want to see some attacks and offensive comments, find my post about getting the FAA involved in prohibiting the Schweizer type hook on tow planes. I take life with a grain of salt and a root beer float, I suggest you do the same. People are a$$holes most of the time and the rest of the time too.
> > > >
> > > > Walt Connelly
> > > > Former tow pilot
> > > > Now happy helicopter pilot
> > I spent most of the day getting stuck with needles and the nurse asking me, "Did That Hurt"??? hell yes it hurt, that is why I came back for more!
> > Now let me make this loud and clear, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SELF LAUNCH SAILPLANES, but please do not expose yourself after the launch!!! I promise all of you that if and when I have a self launch sailplane I will NEVER expose myself to get home, perverts do that in the parking lot at Wal Mart, I had rather land in the swamp than start that smelly engine. Now let the facts confirm what I have always said about my problem with motorgliders . We all or most of us look at OLC as a reference to how well we do compared to others when we fly, I certainly do, I look at myself compared to others flights within the same area and region. I have always stated that the scoring between motorgliders and PURE gliders is skewed, not only is it skewed, but there is a huge difference in decision making between the two. Let me give you a good example, just yesterday I looked at the OLC flights and noticed a motorglider in my neck of the woods scoring well and I immediately had to dissect the flight on OLC. The Motorglider climbed to over 9K AGL shut the engine down and was awarded points from that point being a pure glider, I had rather drink a case of BUD LIGHT that get those kind of points. So my point once again is that there is a difference in skills between the moto glide pilot and the PURIST, I would be embarrassed to take points for something like that, it is like kissing your sister, you could do better or you could do worse!
> > Yes, like Ramy once said, "OBTP Is Like A Train Wreck, You Gotta Stop And Look".
> > Guys, loosen up, life is short, have fun and stir the pot, but don't let your friends fly those damn motorgliders. OBTP
> As Ramy points out, OLC/FAI scoring requires the finish be no more than 1000M below the start of scoring, which may or may not be where the engine is stopped. Note that a towed glider can also be towed to 9000' to start a soaring flight, and is scored the same way as a motorglider that has self-launched to 9000'. It is surprising that someone who claims to have so much experience over so many years of flying with so many different pilots didn't know one of the most basic FAI scoring rules.
>
> I suggest you consider an electric self-launch glider with it's simplicity and reduced maintenance compared to a combustion glider. It's smaller self-retrieve range would not be an impediment to someone determined to never self-retrieve.
Eric, did I mention FAI? OBTP

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 4:12:06 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:26:29 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > As Ramy points out, OLC/FAI scoring requires the finish be no more than 1000M below the start of scoring, which may or may not be where the engine is stopped. Note that a towed glider can also be towed to 9000' to start a soaring flight, and is scored the same way as a motorglider that has self-launched to 9000'. It is surprising that someone who claims to have so much experience over so many years of flying with so many different pilots didn't know one of the most basic FAI scoring rules.
> >
> > I suggest you consider an electric self-launch glider with it's simplicity and reduced maintenance compared to a combustion glider. It's smaller self-retrieve range would not be an impediment to someone determined to never self-retrieve.
> Eric, did I mention FAI? OBTP
That is irrelevant, as the issue Ramy and I addressed was something you specifically discussed: the "unfair" points obtained by taking a 9000' tow. Do you still think a high tow like that gives you 9000' to glide off and get lots of extra points, compared to a pilot that takes a 3000' tow? Try "dissecting" that flight again, and note carefully the scoring start height and scoring finish height. The finish point should be less than 1000M lower than the start point.

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 3:59:25 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 4:12:06 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:26:29 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > As Ramy points out, OLC/FAI scoring requires the finish be no more than 1000M below the start of scoring, which may or may not be where the engine is stopped. Note that a towed glider can also be towed to 9000' to start a soaring flight, and is scored the same way as a motorglider that has self-launched to 9000'. It is surprising that someone who claims to have so much experience over so many years of flying with so many different pilots didn't know one of the most basic FAI scoring rules.
> > >
> > > I suggest you consider an electric self-launch glider with it's simplicity and reduced maintenance compared to a combustion glider. It's smaller self-retrieve range would not be an impediment to someone determined to never self-retrieve.
> > Eric, did I mention FAI? OBTP
> That is irrelevant, as the issue Ramy and I addressed was something you specifically discussed: the "unfair" points obtained by taking a 9000' tow. Do you still think a high tow like that gives you 9000' to glide off and get lots of extra points, compared to a pilot that takes a 3000' tow? Try "dissecting" that flight again, and note carefully the scoring start height and scoring finish height. The finish point should be less than 1000M lower than the start point.
Glad you mentioned that , the start point was almost 4K above what any normal PURIST would have taken. Look at the the graph yourself. Bob

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 4:00:59 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 3:59:25 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 4:12:06 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:26:29 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > As Ramy points out, OLC/FAI scoring requires the finish be no more than 1000M below the start of scoring, which may or may not be where the engine is stopped. Note that a towed glider can also be towed to 9000' to start a soaring flight, and is scored the same way as a motorglider that has self-launched to 9000'. It is surprising that someone who claims to have so much experience over so many years of flying with so many different pilots didn't know one of the most basic FAI scoring rules.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest you consider an electric self-launch glider with it's simplicity and reduced maintenance compared to a combustion glider. It's smaller self-retrieve range would not be an impediment to someone determined to never self-retrieve.
> > > Eric, did I mention FAI? OBTP
> > That is irrelevant, as the issue Ramy and I addressed was something you specifically discussed: the "unfair" points obtained by taking a 9000' tow.. Do you still think a high tow like that gives you 9000' to glide off and get lots of extra points, compared to a pilot that takes a 3000' tow? Try "dissecting" that flight again, and note carefully the scoring start height and scoring finish height. The finish point should be less than 1000M lower than the start point.
> Glad you mentioned that , the start point was almost 4K above what any normal PURIST would have taken. Look at the the graph yourself. Bob
The May 15, 2023 flight by Todd Tracy, was in a Pipestrel Sinus, a high wing, fixed gear "touring" motorglider of modest performance. He obviously climbed high enough to safely cross the Everglades, then shut down the motor when within gliding distance of airport near to where to soaring was likely to start. Most of his flights are like that. He flew the flight according to the rules, and was scored according to the rules. What rule changes do you propose to prevent this "unfair" kind of flying? Note that an unpowered glider could do the exact same flight by being towed to 9000'. This flight is not one only a motorglider could do.

On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 9:49:25 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 4:00:59 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 3:59:25 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 4:12:06 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:26:29 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > > As Ramy points out, OLC/FAI scoring requires the finish be no more than 1000M below the start of scoring, which may or may not be where the engine is stopped. Note that a towed glider can also be towed to 9000' to start a soaring flight, and is scored the same way as a motorglider that has self-launched to 9000'. It is surprising that someone who claims to have so much experience over so many years of flying with so many different pilots didn't know one of the most basic FAI scoring rules.
> > > > >
> > > > > I suggest you consider an electric self-launch glider with it's simplicity and reduced maintenance compared to a combustion glider. It's smaller self-retrieve range would not be an impediment to someone determined to never self-retrieve.
> > > > Eric, did I mention FAI? OBTP
> > > That is irrelevant, as the issue Ramy and I addressed was something you specifically discussed: the "unfair" points obtained by taking a 9000' tow. Do you still think a high tow like that gives you 9000' to glide off and get lots of extra points, compared to a pilot that takes a 3000' tow? Try "dissecting" that flight again, and note carefully the scoring start height and scoring finish height. The finish point should be less than 1000M lower than the start point.
> > Glad you mentioned that , the start point was almost 4K above what any normal PURIST would have taken. Look at the the graph yourself. Bob
> The May 15, 2023 flight by Todd Tracy, was in a Pipestrel Sinus, a high wing, fixed gear "touring" motorglider of modest performance. He obviously climbed high enough to safely cross the Everglades, then shut down the motor when within gliding distance of airport near to where to soaring was likely to start. Most of his flights are like that. He flew the flight according to the rules, and was scored according to the rules. What rule changes do you propose to prevent this "unfair" kind of flying? Note that an unpowered glider could do the exact same flight by being towed to 9000'. This flight is not one only a motorglider could do.

Both you and I would be ashamed to claim a flight like that, maybe I am giving you too much credit. OBTP

On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 12:48:37 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 9:49:25 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 4:00:59 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 3:59:25 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 4:12:06 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:26:29 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > > > As Ramy points out, OLC/FAI scoring requires the finish be no more than 1000M below the start of scoring, which may or may not be where the engine is stopped. Note that a towed glider can also be towed to 9000' to start a soaring flight, and is scored the same way as a motorglider that has self-launched to 9000'. It is surprising that someone who claims to have so much experience over so many years of flying with so many different pilots didn't know one of the most basic FAI scoring rules.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I suggest you consider an electric self-launch glider with it's simplicity and reduced maintenance compared to a combustion glider. It's smaller self-retrieve range would not be an impediment to someone determined to never self-retrieve.
> > > > > Eric, did I mention FAI? OBTP
> > > > That is irrelevant, as the issue Ramy and I addressed was something you specifically discussed: the "unfair" points obtained by taking a 9000' tow. Do you still think a high tow like that gives you 9000' to glide off and get lots of extra points, compared to a pilot that takes a 3000' tow? Try "dissecting" that flight again, and note carefully the scoring start height and scoring finish height. The finish point should be less than 1000M lower than the start point.
> > > Glad you mentioned that , the start point was almost 4K above what any normal PURIST would have taken. Look at the the graph yourself. Bob
> > The May 15, 2023 flight by Todd Tracy, was in a Pipestrel Sinus, a high wing, fixed gear "touring" motorglider of modest performance. He obviously climbed high enough to safely cross the Everglades, then shut down the motor when within gliding distance of airport near to where to soaring was likely to start. Most of his flights are like that. He flew the flight according to the rules, and was scored according to the rules. What rule changes do you propose to prevent this "unfair" kind of flying? Note that an unpowered glider could do the exact same flight by being towed to 9000'. This flight is not one only a motorglider could do.
> Both you and I would be ashamed to claim a flight like that, maybe I am giving you too much credit. OBTP
I have claimed flights like that, as there is no shame in following the rules, and this rule that bothers you so much was in use before you began soaring; in fact, the rule was developed when everyone flew towed gliders, as motorgliders were unavailable 50+ years ago.

On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 4:03:42 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 12:48:37 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 9:49:25 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 4:00:59 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 3:59:25 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 4:12:06 AM UTC-7, youngbl....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:26:29 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > > > > As Ramy points out, OLC/FAI scoring requires the finish be no more than 1000M below the start of scoring, which may or may not be where the engine is stopped. Note that a towed glider can also be towed to 9000' to start a soaring flight, and is scored the same way as a motorglider that has self-launched to 9000'. It is surprising that someone who claims to have so much experience over so many years of flying with so many different pilots didn't know one of the most basic FAI scoring rules.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I suggest you consider an electric self-launch glider with it's simplicity and reduced maintenance compared to a combustion glider. It's smaller self-retrieve range would not be an impediment to someone determined to never self-retrieve.
> > > > > > Eric, did I mention FAI? OBTP
> > > > > That is irrelevant, as the issue Ramy and I addressed was something you specifically discussed: the "unfair" points obtained by taking a 9000' tow. Do you still think a high tow like that gives you 9000' to glide off and get lots of extra points, compared to a pilot that takes a 3000' tow? Try "dissecting" that flight again, and note carefully the scoring start height and scoring finish height. The finish point should be less than 1000M lower than the start point.
> > > > Glad you mentioned that , the start point was almost 4K above what any normal PURIST would have taken. Look at the the graph yourself. Bob
> > > The May 15, 2023 flight by Todd Tracy, was in a Pipestrel Sinus, a high wing, fixed gear "touring" motorglider of modest performance. He obviously climbed high enough to safely cross the Everglades, then shut down the motor when within gliding distance of airport near to where to soaring was likely to start. Most of his flights are like that. He flew the flight according to the rules, and was scored according to the rules. What rule changes do you propose to prevent this "unfair" kind of flying? Note that an unpowered glider could do the exact same flight by being towed to 9000'. This flight is not one only a motorglider could do.
> > Both you and I would be ashamed to claim a flight like that, maybe I am giving you too much credit. OBTP
> I have claimed flights like that, as there is no shame in following the rules, and this rule that bothers you so much was in use before you began soaring; in fact, the rule was developed when everyone flew towed gliders, as motorgliders were unavailable 50+ years ago.
Maybe that is the way you guys and gals out West claim points, but us Floridians seem to have a bit more class. OBTP