"Snag" wrote in message news:ucapao$4nql$1@dont-email.me...

The portable base is made from lengths of c channel that was made for
steel building roof members . They extend past the circle of the jib in
2 directions . A 3rd piece is at a 45° angle opposite , and is shorter .
All 3 have square tube angle braces with doubler pads at the bottom . I
can get about 180° rotation with a load - and yes I've tipped it over a
few times . I also have a pocket for a pivot pin in the front drivers
side corner of my 5x8 utility trailer . With both a hand crank and an
electric winch top section it makes for a pretty flexible setup .

[[ That sounds like a very good solution on fairly level ground. I was
logging on rocky slopes that had never been cleared for farming, they left
small rock piles where they gave up. My own property is about the same, thus
the hoisting tripods with freely swinging legs to dodge rocks. In some steep
areas the uphill leg would be nearly horizontal and I had to cut the logs to
firewood length where they fell and send them tumbling end over end down the
hill. That was the only way they'd continue straight after hitting a
rock. ]]

I couldn't pick up my 5x8 by hand on my best day ...

[[ But you can carry much more, which is what cargo trailers are meant for.
My 3' x 8' bed trailer was originally for a single snowmobile and appears to
have a 1000# axle rating. It's a good match to the Sears garden tractor and
about the same narrow width to pass between live trees to reach the dead
ones, but I can't fill it completely with firewood and still have enough
traction, even with herringbone ag tires, wheel weights and chains. ]]

I have never needed to bring long stuff out of the woods . If I need
to I'd probably get one of the neighbors to drag it out with their 4X4 .
Rusty the Tractor would just bury the back tires , got plenty of power
but not much traction - especially with the blade up front mounted .
My wood lot is a bunch of re-purposed steel 5 rib roofing panels 12
feet long . I have a stack of new and nearly new roof panels 8' long to
make a roof over it ... if I ever get a round tuit . And all the steel
roofing was free .
Snag

[[ I mentioned long logs to complete the description, for reference if this
is archived like some other r.c.m. postings. The cost, or lack of it, was
helpful when the town noticed the sheds and considered taxing their value.
NH has no general sales or income tax (with some exceptions) and depends on
high property taxes.
https://www.propertyshark.com/info/property-taxes-by-state/
We get to amend and vote on the yearly budget at Town Meeting so there's
little or no self-serving frivolity left in it (*), but we can't avoid
rising prices for everything and competitive salaries for qualified teachers
and officials.
]]

*don't try that in a small town

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:ucavbi$5suc$1@dont-email.me...

You guys must have that "cold" fire. When we used to have desert
parties there wasn't much left of cans tossed in the fire. I knew
ironwood tended to burn hotter than most woods, but most of our bonfires
were dead fall mesquite.
Bob La Londe

----------------------

Damp wood doesn't burn very hot.

On 8/25/2023 3:18 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:ucavbi$5suc$1@dont-email.me...
> You guys must have that "cold" fire.  When we used to have desert
> parties there wasn't much left of cans tossed in the fire.  I knew
> ironwood tended to burn hotter than most woods, but most of our bonfires
> were dead fall mesquite.
> Bob La Londe
>
> ----------------------
>
> Damp wood doesn't burn very hot.

And I'll be damned if I'll burn up my seasoned firewood for a bunch
of lushes !
Actually I have a couple of piles of branches that I could drag to a
spot where we could burn them . I usually leave the small stuff piled up
as shelter for small critters . The semi-feral cats appreciate it .
--
Snag
Men don't protect women because they're weak .
We protect them because they're important .

On 8/25/2023 1:33 PM, Snag wrote:
> On 8/25/2023 3:18 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:ucavbi$5suc$1@dont-email.me...
>> You guys must have that "cold" fire.  When we used to have desert
>> parties there wasn't much left of cans tossed in the fire.  I knew
>> ironwood tended to burn hotter than most woods, but most of our
>> bonfires were dead fall mesquite.
>> Bob La Londe
>>
>> ----------------------
>>
>> Damp wood doesn't burn very hot.
>
>   And I'll be damned if I'll burn up my seasoned firewood for a bunch
> of lushes !
Ha! That's about all we ever had a fire for. Okay, when I ran traps
there were a few times my fire was legitimately for warmth, and a shovel
full of coals for cooking breakfast is cheaper than a few cents worth of
gas to start the stove... These days about the only time I start a fire
is to grill steaks, lobsters, or chicken. I actually don't care for
lobster, but my wife says she likes the way I grill them for her. I
think that mostly means she likes when I'm cooking and she isn't.

>   Actually I have a couple of piles of branches that I could drag to a
> spot where we could burn them . I usually leave the small stuff piled up
> as shelter for small critters . The semi-feral cats appreciate it .

So you kiss up to the cats to control the pests, and then you create
habitat for the pests to appease the cats. Makes perfect sense to me.
I actually like cats, maybe scraping half a flattened lizard off my boot
not so much... and wondering where the other half is.

Seasoning firewood is not a big deal around here. We get about a month
of humid weather all year.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 8/25/2023 4:33 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 8/25/2023 1:33 PM, Snag wrote:
>> On 8/25/2023 3:18 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:ucavbi$5suc$1@dont-email.me...
>>> You guys must have that "cold" fire.  When we used to have desert
>>> parties there wasn't much left of cans tossed in the fire.  I knew
>>> ironwood tended to burn hotter than most woods, but most of our
>>> bonfires were dead fall mesquite.
>>> Bob La Londe
>>>
>>> ----------------------
>>>
>>> Damp wood doesn't burn very hot.
>>
>>    And I'll be damned if I'll burn up my seasoned firewood for a bunch
>> of lushes !
> Ha!  That's about all we ever had a fire for.  Okay, when I ran traps
> there were a few times my fire was legitimately for warmth, and a shovel
> full of coals for cooking breakfast is cheaper than a few cents worth of
> gas to start the stove...  These days about the only time I start a fire
> is to grill steaks, lobsters, or chicken.  I actually don't care for
> lobster, but my wife says she likes the way I grill them for her.  I
> think that mostly means she likes when I'm cooking and she isn't.
>
>>    Actually I have a couple of piles of branches that I could drag to
>> a spot where we could burn them . I usually leave the small stuff
>> piled up as shelter for small critters . The semi-feral cats
>> appreciate it .
>
> So you kiss up to the cats to control the pests, and then you create
> habitat for the pests to appease the cats.  Makes perfect sense to me. I
> actually like cats, maybe scraping half a flattened lizard off my boot
> not so much... and wondering where the other half is.
>
> Seasoning firewood is not a big deal around here.  We get about a month
> of humid weather all year.
>
>
>

I'm familiar with that climate . I grew up in Box Elder County Utah ,
very similar . Maybe not quite as dry as where you are , but the av
annual rainfall is IIRC 18"-24" . We've had like 15 inches in the last
month here .
--
Snag
Men don't protect women because they're weak .
We protect them because they're important .

On 8/25/2023 3:30 PM, Snag wrote:
> On 8/25/2023 4:33 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 8/25/2023 1:33 PM, Snag wrote:
>>> On 8/25/2023 3:18 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:ucavbi$5suc$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> You guys must have that "cold" fire.  When we used to have desert
>>>> parties there wasn't much left of cans tossed in the fire.  I knew
>>>> ironwood tended to burn hotter than most woods, but most of our
>>>> bonfires were dead fall mesquite.
>>>> Bob La Londe
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------
>>>>
>>>> Damp wood doesn't burn very hot.
>>>
>>>    And I'll be damned if I'll burn up my seasoned firewood for a
>>> bunch of lushes !
>> Ha!  That's about all we ever had a fire for.  Okay, when I ran traps
>> there were a few times my fire was legitimately for warmth, and a
>> shovel full of coals for cooking breakfast is cheaper than a few cents
>> worth of gas to start the stove...  These days about the only time I
>> start a fire is to grill steaks, lobsters, or chicken.  I actually
>> don't care for lobster, but my wife says she likes the way I grill
>> them for her.  I think that mostly means she likes when I'm cooking
>> and she isn't.
>>
>>>    Actually I have a couple of piles of branches that I could drag to
>>> a spot where we could burn them . I usually leave the small stuff
>>> piled up as shelter for small critters . The semi-feral cats
>>> appreciate it .
>>
>> So you kiss up to the cats to control the pests, and then you create
>> habitat for the pests to appease the cats.  Makes perfect sense to me.
>> I actually like cats, maybe scraping half a flattened lizard off my
>> boot not so much... and wondering where the other half is.
>>
>> Seasoning firewood is not a big deal around here.  We get about a
>> month of humid weather all year.
>>
>>
>>
>
>   I'm familiar with that climate . I grew up in Box Elder County Utah ,
> very similar . Maybe not quite as dry as where you are , but the av
> annual rainfall is IIRC 18"-24" . We've had like 15 inches in the last
> month here .

The singles wettest year on record for Yuma Arizona was 1905 with 11.41
inches. Average annual rainfall is about 3.5. Most of it is late
summer. We get lucky enough to get late winter or early spring rain the
desert turns green and the wild gambel quail start popping out babies
like crazy.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> writes:

> Wood - the only home heating fuel that heats twice

More than twice. I figure every piece of firewood is moved 9 times
between the pile of 8' logs and being on fire in the stove. And that
doesn't count felling or getting it out of the woods as in recent
decades I've had 8' wood delivered to the yard. Don't have the
endurance for woods work any lomger but I do still split 8 cord a year
with a 7# maul or, when absolutely needed, the occasional gnarly bolt
with wedges.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message
news:87ledybce6.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere...
Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> writes:

> Wood - the only home heating fuel that heats twice

More than twice. I figure every piece of firewood is moved 9 times
between the pile of 8' logs and being on fire in the stove. And that
doesn't count felling or getting it out of the woods as in recent
decades I've had 8' wood delivered to the yard. Don't have the
endurance for woods work any lomger but I do still split 8 cord a year
with a 7# maul or, when absolutely needed, the occasional gnarly bolt
with wedges.
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

---------------------

I counted at least 12 handlings, sometimes more.
1. Lift log with chain hoist to cut to lengths.
2. Pick up 16" lengths, Into wheelbarrow.
3. From wheelbarrow into trailer or truck.
4. From trailer into open-sided drying shed.
5. From drying shed into trailer or wheelbarrow.
6. Into rain-tight storage shed.
7. Into wheelbarrow, to splitter.
8. Split to palm size, into another wheelbarrow.
9. From wheelbarrow into ready-use shed behind house.
10. Into wheelbarrow.
11. Through wall hatch Into metal chute.
12. From chute into stove.
(13) screen charcoal from ashes.

1 requires bending down to chain it, standing to hoist. On rocky ground I
slice it at waist height while standing upright, though usually cut it where
it lies in the yard or driveway or on the roof. (*)
2 requires bending down to pick it up, the only back strain. Cutting to fall
into the wheelbarrow risks it tipping onto my feet while I'm holding a
running chainsaw. If the tree falls close to the trail and is light enough I
cut it to fall into the trailer, but that's rare. I think it's best to do
all the felling and sawing while I'm fresh and careful, then get tired
lifting and moving the wood.
8 is standing, with the splitter wheels on ramps and an Atwood 82302 folding
& telescoping stabilizer supporting the beam. The off side wood rolls onto
the table. As-is the splitter beam sits low enough to roll heavy wet pieces
onto it. I've weighed them at up to 150 Lbs, more than I probably should
have been lifting into the truck.
12 is seated on a rolling stool, the rest are standing and bending only
slightly, not enough for back strain. My bad back and knees were high school
sports injuries that never completely healed and are easily aggravated. I
claim I feel like a teen-ager because I still hurt in the same places.

I rigged the chimney so that pulling one cord tilts the rain/snow/birds cap
open, another operates a weighted brush to clean it, while standing on the
ground instead of the icy roof. The all-metal added structure up there is
minimal and painted to blend into the background of trees.

(*) The morning after an ice storm I woke up to no electricity and a branch
poking through the bedroom ceiling.

On 8/26/2023 8:52 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Mike Spencer"  wrote in message
> news:87ledybce6.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere...
> Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> writes:
>
>>   Wood - the only home heating fuel that heats twice
>
> More than twice.  I figure every piece of firewood is moved 9 times
> between the pile of 8' logs and being on fire in the stove.  And that
> doesn't count felling or getting it out of the woods as in recent
> decades I've had 8' wood delivered to the yard.  Don't have the
> endurance for woods work any lomger but I do still split 8 cord a year
> with a 7# maul or, when absolutely needed, the occasional gnarly bolt
> with wedges.
> Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada
>
> ---------------------
>
> I counted at least 12 handlings, sometimes more.
> 1. Lift log with chain hoist to cut to lengths.
> 2. Pick up 16" lengths, Into wheelbarrow.
> 3. From wheelbarrow into trailer or truck.
> 4. From trailer into open-sided drying shed.
> 5. From drying shed into trailer or wheelbarrow.
> 6. Into rain-tight storage shed.
> 7. Into wheelbarrow, to splitter.
> 8. Split to palm size, into another wheelbarrow.
> 9. From wheelbarrow into ready-use shed behind house.
> 10. Into wheelbarrow.
> 11. Through wall hatch Into metal chute.
> 12. From chute into stove.
> (13) screen charcoal from ashes.
>
> 1 requires bending down to chain it, standing to hoist. On rocky ground
> I slice it at waist height while standing upright, though usually cut it
> where it lies in the yard or driveway or on the roof. (*)
> 2 requires bending down to pick it up, the only back strain. Cutting to
> fall into the wheelbarrow risks it tipping onto my feet while I'm
> holding a running chainsaw. If the tree falls close to the trail and is
> light enough I cut it to fall into the trailer, but that's rare. I think
> it's best to do all the felling and sawing while I'm fresh and careful,
> then get tired lifting and moving the wood.
> 8 is standing, with the splitter wheels on ramps and an Atwood 82302
> folding & telescoping stabilizer supporting the beam. The off side wood
> rolls onto the table. As-is the splitter beam sits low enough to roll
> heavy wet pieces onto it. I've weighed them at up to 150 Lbs, more than
> I probably should have been lifting into the truck.
> 12 is seated on a rolling stool, the rest are standing and bending only
> slightly, not enough for back strain. My bad back and knees were high
> school sports injuries that never completely healed and are easily
> aggravated. I claim I feel like a teen-ager because I still hurt in the
> same places.
>
> I rigged the chimney so that pulling one cord tilts the rain/snow/birds
> cap open, another operates a weighted brush to clean it, while standing
> on the ground instead of the icy roof. The all-metal added structure up
> there is minimal and painted to blend into the background of trees.
>
> (*) The morning after an ice storm I woke up to no electricity and a
> branch poking through the bedroom ceiling.

My procedure :
Fell a tree , cut to stove lengths where it falls .
Load into small yard trailer pulled by Rusty .
Depending on how far from the woodlot , might transfer to larger trailer
.. If accessible (and there's enough to justify) straight to larger
trailer , big pieces get loaded with the electric winch crane. I
sometimes drag large rounds out of the woods with Rusty the Tractor then
load with the electric crane into the 5X8 trailer .
From trailer to splitter , by hand or crane depending on size .
Pile up next to stacks or straight to stack , depending on "stuff" .
Wheelbarrow to deck , pass thru window to wood box next to stove .
Into stove , ashes (not screened) out to compost .
This procedure can be modified if for instance a nice neighbor dumps
2 cords of firewood on me with the proviso it needs to be gone from
their place as soon as is reasonable . I just yesterday finished
splitting that 2 cords my neighbor gave me a month ago ...
My woodlot is open , I cover the stacks with a tarp on top , leaving
the sides open for air circulation .
--
Snag
Men don't protect women because they're weak .
We protect them because they're important .

"Snag" wrote in message news:ucdnk0$okcm$1@dont-email.me...

My woodlot is open , I cover the stacks with a tarp on top , leaving
the sides open for air circulation .
Snag

------------------------

Maybe some day I'll find a bigger tractor with a bucket. The reasonable load
limit for my garden tractor bucket attachment is only 200 Lbs, good to
scrape up all but the wettest snow but not enough to excavate.

I tried tarps among many other cheap/free woodpile covers but they don't
survive falling branches or our heavy snow + ice load, and my airtight
Jotul-clone stove insists on thoroughly dried wood, so I built the pole
sheds from tree trunks and a nearby contractor's scrap heap.

There's a noticeable difference between wood freshly brought in and wood
that's been in the warm dry basement for several days. If the wood is dry
enough it smokes a little on startup, then the chimney exhaust becomes as
clear as a gas stove's, smells nice and doesn't sting my eyes. There's a
camera watching it and a stove box temperature monitor in the kitchen to be
sure it stays clear and inoffensive. It used to have a thermocouple at the
chimney top and a draft (vacuum) gauge but the above is good enough. The
draft gauge showed that the stove + chimney vibrates like an organ pipe at
subaudible frequencies with the door slightly open.

"Snag" wrote in message news:ucapao$4nql$1@dont-email.me...
....
Rusty the Tractor would just bury the back tires , got plenty of power
but not much traction - especially with the blade up front mounted .

-------------------------

The turf tires on my garden tractor gave too little traction on snow and ice
so I made up a set of tire chains from some rusty chain I got at a yard
sale. It wasn't difficult to cut some of it to the length that reached half
way around the tire and join their ends to longer lengths with split end
chain repair links. The closure is with screw Quick Links. They aren't as
tight as car tire chains with pelican hooks but the wheels doesn't spin fast
enough for that to be a problem. They gave the snow traction though I still
needed ag tires for springtime mud.

I saved some discarded links from log skidder tire chain for disposable
weights to throw lines over high branches. On it the links were simply
welded together at a right angle.

On 8/26/2023 9:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Snag"  wrote in message news:ucapao$4nql$1@dont-email.me...
> ...
> Rusty the Tractor would just bury the back tires , got plenty of power
> but not much traction - especially with the blade up front mounted .
>
> -------------------------
>
> The turf tires on my garden tractor gave too little traction on snow and
> ice so I made up a set of tire chains from some rusty chain I got at a
> yard sale. It wasn't difficult to cut some of it to the length that
> reached half way around the tire and join their ends to longer lengths
> with split end chain repair links. The closure is with screw Quick
> Links. They aren't as tight as car tire chains with pelican hooks but
> the wheels doesn't spin fast enough for that to be a problem. They gave
> the snow traction though I still needed ag tires for springtime mud.
>
> I saved some discarded links from log skidder tire chain for disposable
> weights to throw lines over high branches. On it the links were simply
> welded together at a right angle.
>

The turf tires on mine were totally shot when I got it , I went straight
to ag tires and the chains stay on pretty much year round . Not much
help in the woods but every little bit helps . I use a bow and arrow to
get lines over higher branches I can't otherwise reach .
--
Snag
Men don't protect women because they're weak .
We protect them because they're important .

"Snag" wrote in message news:ucfdum$15d1d$1@dont-email.me...

I use a bow and arrow to
get lines over higher branches I can't otherwise reach .

--------------------

An arrow is likely the most accurate but I don't want to puncture a roof,
mine or a nearby neighbor's. Where roofs aren't a problem I use a pneumatic
line throwing gun similar to this, which has been accurate enough and can be
regulated for power/distance so it doesn't tangle in the tree beyond.
http://www.antennalaunchers.com/antlaunching.html

On 8/27/2023 12:29 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Snag"  wrote in message news:ucfdum$15d1d$1@dont-email.me...
>
> I use a bow and arrow to
> get lines over higher branches I can't otherwise reach .
>
> --------------------
>
> An arrow is likely the most accurate but I don't want to puncture a
> roof, mine or a nearby neighbor's. Where roofs aren't a problem I use a
> pneumatic line throwing gun similar to this, which has been accurate
> enough and can be regulated for power/distance so it doesn't tangle in
> the tree beyond.
> http://www.antennalaunchers.com/antlaunching.html
>

As a general rule there are no roofs in range ... and with a recurve bow
it's pretty easy to regulate how far your arrow is going to go .
--
Snag
Men don't protect women because they're weak .
We protect them because they're important .

Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> writes:

> My procedure :
>
> Fell a tree , cut to stove lengths where it falls .

When I was still cutting firewood from the woods myself, I tried to
fell the trees in mid-summer and leave them lay with the tops on for a
fortnight or two. The notion being that the leaves remained alive and
drew a lot of water out of the wood before drying up themselves,
presumably hastening the seasoning of the wood. Never did a
high-tech evaluation by measururing wood water content in those trees
versus controls cut up immediatly as you do.

Not always possible as summer demands put woods work off into winter
as often as not. Now I guarantee well-seasoned wood by staying a year
ahead. I'm about to put this coming winter's wood, all split and in
a pile, into a closed shed. Wood for the next winter is in the yard
already; I'll start bucking it up and splitting it in November.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

"Snag" wrote in message news:ucg7fs$19vmh$1@dont-email.me...

As a general rule there are no roofs in range ... and with a recurve bow
it's pretty easy to regulate how far your arrow is going to go .
Snag

---------------------------

We've adapted to different conditions. I have roofed sheds all over the lot,
separated to keep a fire in one from spreading.

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message
news:87cyz8b5sr.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere...

When I was still cutting firewood from the woods myself, I tried to
fell the trees in mid-summer and leave them lay with the tops on for a
fortnight or two. The notion being that the leaves remained alive and
drew a lot of water out of the wood before drying up themselves,
presumably hastening the seasoning of the wood. Never did a
high-tech evaluation by measururing wood water content in those trees
versus controls cut up immediatly as you do.

Not always possible as summer demands put woods work off into winter
as often as not. Now I guarantee well-seasoned wood by staying a year
ahead. I'm about to put this coming winter's wood, all split and in
a pile, into a closed shed. Wood for the next winter is in the yard
already; I'll start bucking it up and splitting it in November.

Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

----------------

I've taken a while to clean up a live tree that blew down, and didn't notice
much change in how wet the ends felt. Normally I weigh the heaviest logs
only once as I am concerned about overloading my equipment, the weights of
the green log and cut lumber are what matter, i.e how much can/should I lift
by hand. I have weighed and marked a few logs when green and then when fully
seasoned, going onto the sawmill, about half the weight was water. The rapid
change occurs when they are cut to length and exposed to sun and wind, then
the ends feel drier after 3 days. I cut and stacked a recently deceased tree
a few weeks ago and have been checking on it. A dark streak from embedded
metal was initially black and has turned green, perhaps it's brass.

On Sun, 27 Aug 2023 07:01:27 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

>On 8/26/2023 9:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:ucapao$4nql$1@dont-email.me...
>> ...
>> Rusty the Tractor would just bury the back tires , got plenty of power
>> but not much traction - especially with the blade up front mounted .
>>
>> -------------------------
>>
>> The turf tires on my garden tractor gave too little traction on snow and
>> ice so I made up a set of tire chains from some rusty chain I got at a
>> yard sale. It wasn't difficult to cut some of it to the length that
>> reached half way around the tire and join their ends to longer lengths
>> with split end chain repair links. The closure is with screw Quick
>> Links. They aren't as tight as car tire chains with pelican hooks but
>> the wheels doesn't spin fast enough for that to be a problem. They gave
>> the snow traction though I still needed ag tires for springtime mud.
>>
>> I saved some discarded links from log skidder tire chain for disposable
>> weights to throw lines over high branches. On it the links were simply
>> welded together at a right angle.
>>
>
>The turf tires on mine were totally shot when I got it , I went straight
>to ag tires and the chains stay on pretty much year round . Not much
>help in the woods but every little bit helps . I use a bow and arrow to
>get lines over higher branches I can't otherwise reach .
A hex nut on a spin casting rod works well for me to get baler twine
up there which is usually suficient.

On 8/27/2023 7:50 PM, Gerry wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Aug 2023 07:01:27 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/26/2023 9:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:ucapao$4nql$1@dont-email.me...
>>> ...
>>> Rusty the Tractor would just bury the back tires , got plenty of power
>>> but not much traction - especially with the blade up front mounted .
>>>
>>> -------------------------
>>>
>>> The turf tires on my garden tractor gave too little traction on snow and
>>> ice so I made up a set of tire chains from some rusty chain I got at a
>>> yard sale. It wasn't difficult to cut some of it to the length that
>>> reached half way around the tire and join their ends to longer lengths
>>> with split end chain repair links. The closure is with screw Quick
>>> Links. They aren't as tight as car tire chains with pelican hooks but
>>> the wheels doesn't spin fast enough for that to be a problem. They gave
>>> the snow traction though I still needed ag tires for springtime mud.
>>>
>>> I saved some discarded links from log skidder tire chain for disposable
>>> weights to throw lines over high branches. On it the links were simply
>>> welded together at a right angle.
>>>
>>
>> The turf tires on mine were totally shot when I got it , I went straight
>> to ag tires and the chains stay on pretty much year round . Not much
>> help in the woods but every little bit helps . I use a bow and arrow to
>> get lines over higher branches I can't otherwise reach .
> A hex nut on a spin casting rod works well for me to get baler twine
> up there which is usually suficient.

Back when I ran a lot of wire one of the tools they sold was a spring
gun with a spin cast reel on it. I could run wire faster, further, and
more accurately with push pull rods.

Might have been good for throwing a line over a branch though. LOL.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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On Sun, 27 Aug 2023 20:18:48 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:

>On 8/27/2023 7:50 PM, Gerry wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Aug 2023 07:01:27 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/26/2023 9:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:ucapao$4nql$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> ...
>>>> Rusty the Tractor would just bury the back tires , got plenty of power
>>>> but not much traction - especially with the blade up front mounted .
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------
>>>>
>>>> The turf tires on my garden tractor gave too little traction on snow and
>>>> ice so I made up a set of tire chains from some rusty chain I got at a
>>>> yard sale. It wasn't difficult to cut some of it to the length that
>>>> reached half way around the tire and join their ends to longer lengths
>>>> with split end chain repair links. The closure is with screw Quick
>>>> Links. They aren't as tight as car tire chains with pelican hooks but
>>>> the wheels doesn't spin fast enough for that to be a problem. They gave
>>>> the snow traction though I still needed ag tires for springtime mud.
>>>>
>>>> I saved some discarded links from log skidder tire chain for disposable
>>>> weights to throw lines over high branches. On it the links were simply
>>>> welded together at a right angle.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The turf tires on mine were totally shot when I got it , I went straight
>>> to ag tires and the chains stay on pretty much year round . Not much
>>> help in the woods but every little bit helps . I use a bow and arrow to
>>> get lines over higher branches I can't otherwise reach .
>> A hex nut on a spin casting rod works well for me to get baler twine
>> up there which is usually suficient.
>
>
>Back when I ran a lot of wire one of the tools they sold was a spring
>gun with a spin cast reel on it. I could run wire faster, further, and
>more accurately with push pull rods.
>
>Might have been good for throwing a line over a branch though. LOL.
>
>
>--
>Bob La Londe
>CNC Molds N Stuff
For pulling wires across T-Bar ceilings I used a RC buggy running in
reverse (so the driven wheels hit the T Bar first) pulling a pull
string. pulled over 200 feet across a 35 foot ceiling and dropped the
buggy through a single lifted tile hole to the POS terminal below to
run Cat5 network connection (from an upper mezzanine at one end of the
building)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uch3mo$1hqgf$1@dont-email.me...

Back when I ran a lot of wire one of the tools they sold was a spring
gun with a spin cast reel on it. I could run wire faster, further, and
more accurately with push pull rods.

Might have been good for throwing a line over a branch though. LOL.

Bob La Londe

----------------------

I started with a casting reel and a slingshot, which worked well on isolated
trees without a lot of foliage. The problem here is when the line passes
through the upper branches of the target's and adjacent trees and the extra
drag slows and stops the weight. 6" of 3/4" steel rod from an air cannon is
usually enough to bring the line down anyway, I just have to be careful of
what it could fall onto, near the house I use a soft arborist throw bag. The
trees are mature red oaks around 100' high, most without branches below
40-50' so unless rotted or excessively curved they make good clear lumber.

Shortly after buying the house I found two broken chainsaws in a basket at a
yard sale and combined them into one that worked. Looking for trees to
practice on, I decided that three large oaks behind the house and leaning
toward it were good candidates. I tossed lines through high forks and pulled
them back to cut. Two were solid but the third snapped off and fell toward
me when just past vertical, the base had rotted out except for an inch or so
of wood under the bark. It could have fallen through the roof at any moment.

On 8/27/2023 8:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Aug 2023 20:18:48 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
> wrote:
>
>> On 8/27/2023 7:50 PM, Gerry wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 Aug 2023 07:01:27 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/26/2023 9:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:ucapao$4nql$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>> ...
>>>>> Rusty the Tractor would just bury the back tires , got plenty of power
>>>>> but not much traction - especially with the blade up front mounted .
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> The turf tires on my garden tractor gave too little traction on snow and
>>>>> ice so I made up a set of tire chains from some rusty chain I got at a
>>>>> yard sale. It wasn't difficult to cut some of it to the length that
>>>>> reached half way around the tire and join their ends to longer lengths
>>>>> with split end chain repair links. The closure is with screw Quick
>>>>> Links. They aren't as tight as car tire chains with pelican hooks but
>>>>> the wheels doesn't spin fast enough for that to be a problem. They gave
>>>>> the snow traction though I still needed ag tires for springtime mud.
>>>>>
>>>>> I saved some discarded links from log skidder tire chain for disposable
>>>>> weights to throw lines over high branches. On it the links were simply
>>>>> welded together at a right angle.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The turf tires on mine were totally shot when I got it , I went straight
>>>> to ag tires and the chains stay on pretty much year round . Not much
>>>> help in the woods but every little bit helps . I use a bow and arrow to
>>>> get lines over higher branches I can't otherwise reach .
>>> A hex nut on a spin casting rod works well for me to get baler twine
>>> up there which is usually suficient.
>>
>>
>> Back when I ran a lot of wire one of the tools they sold was a spring
>> gun with a spin cast reel on it. I could run wire faster, further, and
>> more accurately with push pull rods.
>>
>> Might have been good for throwing a line over a branch though. LOL.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bob La Londe
>> CNC Molds N Stuff
> For pulling wires across T-Bar ceilings I used a RC buggy running in
> reverse (so the driven wheels hit the T Bar first) pulling a pull
> string. pulled over 200 feet across a 35 foot ceiling and dropped the
> buggy through a single lifted tile hole to the POS terminal below to
> run Cat5 network connection (from an upper mezzanine at one end of the
> building)

You are not supposed to lay wire on the grid most places, even if you do
there are plenty of installations with glass insulation laying on the
grid, and if you go into really old buildings you may find one of a few
reasons why you are not supposed to lay wire on the grid. A mat of
wires installed over generations of new technology upgrades. I've lifted
panels in old schools where I had to get high enough on the ladder to
lift with the flat of my back.

Its been a few years since I retired from being a licensed communication
contractor, but I seem to recall that Cat5e certification also specifies
that the wire not be laid on the grid or ceiling, but is run in wide
j-hooks or similar supported every 48 inches. One of the reasons is of
course the strength of the grid (individual support wires if installed
properly are much stronger), but another is potential for noise from
devices mounted in the grid like florescent light cans if wires run
close by.

I have seen guys run a buggy (nobody who worked for me) and its
relatively fast if you can see it for a single wire pull. The strain of
a single wire being pulled across the grid isn't likely to damage the
grid, but 40-100 pf them being pulled to a bullpen in an office or to a
classroom will absolutely break grid if you don't hang a roller, or at
least a hook (*not the old round cast hooks, d-rings, or bent wire
bridle rings) so it doesn't run over the edge of the cross T.

If your local codes & job specs allow laying the wire on the grid, there
is no insulation or mass of old wiring laying on the grid, and you are
only pulling one or two wires I can see I can see an RC buggy being very
fast.

(*not the old round cast hooks, d-rings, or bent wire bridle rings)
They do not support the wire over a wide enough area to prevent a sub
minimum radius kink from forming and causing your wire to broadcast like
an antenna loosing signal strength.

P.S. My uncle Paul La Londe (rip) invented and shared the patent (among
others) for the locking tabs on the most popular ceiling grid made by
DONN Products, and later purchased by USG.

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

--
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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:ucikk4$1por4$1@dont-email.me...

You are not supposed to lay wire on the grid most places, ...

------------------

Are there Do's and Don't for routing single pair thermocouple wires over
suspended ceilings or through walls? The ceiling tiles are fire retardant
around the wood stove. I have a spool of the shielded extension wire but
haven't seen (detected?) a serious problem with the regular J and K
unshielded pairs. The readout shows water boiling on the basement stove at
213F, within the tolerance.

The scrap dealer wanted $1 a foot but I talked him into the per-pound price
because it wasn't selling. From $100 to $5.

On 8/28/2023 12:58 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:ucikk4$1por4$1@dont-email.me...
>
> You are not supposed to lay wire on the grid most places, ...
>
> ------------------
>
> Are there Do's and Don't for routing single pair thermocouple wires over
> suspended ceilings or through walls? The ceiling tiles are fire
> retardant around the wood stove. I have a spool of the shielded
> extension wire but haven't seen (detected?) a serious problem with the
> regular J and K unshielded pairs. The readout shows water boiling on the
> basement stove at 213F, within the tolerance.
>
> The scrap dealer wanted $1 a foot but I talked him into the per-pound
> price because it wasn't selling. From $100 to $5.
>

It always best to maintain minimum 12" separation between low voltage
and high voltage wire. When they must cross do so as close to
perpendicular as possible. Avoid long parallel runs. Avoid running
near noise sources such as fans, ballasts, motors, PA speakers,
transformers, amplifiers, radio equipment etc. Always avoid locations
that can damage wire and avoid sharp bends or excessive coils.

Coils are a choke. I have seen Cat5e fail a test (I still have a Penta
Scanner + around here somewhere), because somebody had coiled up a huge
service loop above the ceiling. Cat 5e actually specifies a short
service loop above the jack (in the ceiling), but that just means one
1-1/2 to 2 10-12 inch loops. Not a 30 turns of excess wire piled up
because the tech didn't feel like cutting it off and hauling the excess
to the dumpster. On long runs it can also cause a test fail due to
length for obvious reasons.

Plenums generally require plenum rated wire, and fire stop sealant when
making penetrations through plenums or through firewalls (garage to
house in residential). (Older homes may not have a fire wall between
the house and garage). Generally you are not supposed to run wire in an
air duct or air return (with some limited exceptions), but sometimes
plenums, like a pressurized grid ceiling, are unavoidable.

If its low voltage most places will not even look twice at it (except as
noted above) regardless of what the code might say. Fire alarm being
the exception often getting rigorous inspections, and local AHJs making
demands beyond what it says in the NFPA code book.

I don't know if noise would be an issue on a thermo couple wire. Would
induced noise/voltage affect the reading of the thermister?

Yes, I know "technically" PA speakers are considered low voltage, but
they can be 25V, 70V, or 100V line to the speakers with 70V being the
most common. If you happen to be holding the wires when somebody makes
an announcement you will notice it. Amplified analog voice is noise for
electrical purposes. If you are tracing with an inductive amplifier you
only have to be sorta close to hear a voice announcement made over
unshielded PA wire. Shield and grounded at the amp is best for PA wire.
You can still get noise near the speaker/transformer.

I specifically said low voltage, because there are some old line voltage
thermostats out there. I didn't know that the first time I blew up a
low voltage thermostat. Yes, I had an electrical explosion. I was
stunned (not literally) when I double checked it with a meter and it
read 230V. I replaced it with a power supply, two relays, and a
"modern" thermostat. LOL.

Its generally bad form to lay wire on top of a ceiling, but its done all
the time and usually nobody says anything. In an unfinished non storage
attic it may not be a huge deal.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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