On 10/7/2023 4:11 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 23:01:19 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
>

>>>
>>
>> I figured that since that part of the axle is the inner race for that
>> needle bearing mild steel weldment wasn't going to last long . This was
>> the second go-round , he'd worn out both the original bearing and an
>> offset bearing . IMO a needle bearing in that location on a truck isn't
>> a very good idea .
> GM doesn't think so either which is why they used a ROLLER bearing -
> - - -- - It DID make pulling axles and changing grease seals pretty
> simple though compared to using ball bearings. - and if they were not
> runlow on oil or half filled with water they DID last almost forever.
> The bearing contact surface was something like 10 times the contact
> surface of a ball bearing
>

I didn't get to see the bearing , just the axle and the dude called
it a needle bearing . I just knew that I'm not equipped to repair a
hardened bearing surface properly .
--
Snag
Men don't protect women because they're weak .
We protect them because they're important .

On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 19:38:55 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

>On 10/7/2023 4:22 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 08:46:40 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 22:48:57 -0500
>>> Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> A 700R4 trans question . Any idea which wire coming out of the
>>>> converter lock vacuum switch energizes the lockup ? I don't think mine
>>>> is locking up , the RPM's should hold steady with minor throttle
>>>> variations and it doesn't . I want to put a voltmeter or a light bulb
>>>> on it while driving on level road at a steady speed to check it .
>>>
>>> Converter lock is done via oil pressure being switched to it by solenoid
>>> in the tranny. There is a throttle position switch (was on right side
>>> of my injector pump) somewhere on your carb/injector body that tracks
>>> throttle position. Take your foot off the gas it unlocks. It also goes
>>> through the brake pedal switch. Step on the brake, it unlocks. Another
>>> switch in tranny that won't allow it to lock till its in at least 2nd
>>> gear.
>>>
>>> You probably need the wiring diagram to track it down effectively.
>>
>> On a gas truck it has a vac switch inplace of the throttle position
>> switch. Most common problem with no lockup was a cracked vac hose
>> IIRC.
>
> Yes I have the vacuum switch . I'm trying to figure out which wire
>"goes hot" when the converter is supposed to lock . I know for a fact it
>was working before the rebuild . The solenoid was bad , it's wired on
>the same fuse as the radio (odd , ennit?) and every time it would try to
>lock it'd blow the fuse and kill the radio . The trans has been rebuilt
>with a new solenoid and many other parts including a shift kit . I'll be
>checking that hose ... But not tomorrow . Tomorrow I'll be replacing the
>bearing on the other front wheel . Should be easier than the first ,
>I've gotten some better press blocks now .
>
>>>
>>> Don't I remember you installing a different intake/carb setup on this?
>>> Did you transfer over the throttle position sensor for it?
>>>
>>> Dealership thought it would run hot without the torque locking up on
>>> long drives...
>> An extra heavy duty tranny fluid converter is ALWAYS a good idea on a
>> truck with an automatic - especially if it has a lockup converter that
>> may or may not be locking optimally.
>>
>
> I don't know if the converter is a heavy duty unit , I do know it's
>been rebuilt . I needed to add .125" spacers between it and the flywheel
>to get proper pump drive engagement .

Correction - that was supposed to read "extra heavy duty tranny fluid
COOLER"!!!!!

On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 19:54:26 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

>On 10/7/2023 7:13 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:ufql6f$25n8q$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>>   I figured that since that part of the axle is the inner race for that
>> needle bearing mild steel weldment wasn't going to last long . This was
>> the second go-round , he'd worn out both the original bearing and an
>> offset bearing . IMO a needle bearing in that location on a truck isn't
>> a very good idea .
>> Snag
>>
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> The Navy had a metal spraying rig meant to repair worn shaft journals on
>> ships at sea. I think it deposited nickel that wasn't as durable as the
>> original.
>>
>> I rebuilt the battered tip of a splitting maul with weld, either MIG or
>> hardface stick, I considered both and have forgotten which I used, and
>> it's held up well. Unlike an axle it was easy to grind to acceptable
>> shape. My grandmother had asked my uncle to remove a bothersome high
>> lump on their granite entry step and he decided that wrecking a tool was
>> safer and better than displeasing his strict mother. Granite rejects
>> were common and cheap or free there, the quarry was visible from the house.
>>
>> Needle bearings made from pipe and welding rod have worked well for me
>> on low speed yard equipment and my sawmill. The races for DIY ball
>> thrust bearings can be turned with the sharpened back end of a carbide
>> drill bit held slightly off vertical. HSS bits are soft in that area.
>>
>
> In this case the axle itself was the inner race . Those shafts y'all
>spray welded up probably carried an inner race as part of the bearing .
The "race" portion of Chevy axles were what I've seen welded and
reground - 1950-54 chevy cars, 1947 to '61 or '62 1/2 tons.

The one really good thing about that style if axle is it was unluiky
some hamfisted mechanic would nick it with the torch trying to cut the
inner race off - - -

On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 20:01:20 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

>On 10/7/2023 4:11 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 23:01:19 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I figured that since that part of the axle is the inner race for that
>>> needle bearing mild steel weldment wasn't going to last long . This was
>>> the second go-round , he'd worn out both the original bearing and an
>>> offset bearing . IMO a needle bearing in that location on a truck isn't
>>> a very good idea .
>> GM doesn't think so either which is why they used a ROLLER bearing -
>> - - -- - It DID make pulling axles and changing grease seals pretty
>> simple though compared to using ball bearings. - and if they were not
>> runlow on oil or half filled with water they DID last almost forever.
>> The bearing contact surface was something like 10 times the contact
>> surface of a ball bearing
>>
>
> I didn't get to see the bearing , just the axle and the dude called
>it a needle bearing . I just knew that I'm not equipped to repair a
>hardened bearing surface properly .
I have an old (1957) lawn mower and an old toy "express" wagon that
use headless nails as bearings running on about 3/8" rod for axles
inside a peice of tubing as the wheel hub center. At that speed they
don't need to be hard -
Not saying YOU should have repaired the axle - a man needs to know his
limits - heck "I" wouldn't have done it - but if it was un-obtainium I
would have found someone who COULD - at least up until 10 years agp.
Most of the guys I knew who COULD to that back then are dead already
and the rest of them are likely to shaky or frail or blind to attempt
it - the shops they worked in are long gone and the machinery may no
longer exist. They used to do crankshafts and camshafts too - and
nitride all kinds of parts (TuffTride) - still a place here in
Kitchener that does that - Plasma nitriding.

On 10/7/2023 9:32 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 19:38:55 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/7/2023 4:22 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>>> On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 08:46:40 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 22:48:57 -0500
>>>> Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>> A 700R4 trans question . Any idea which wire coming out of the
>>>>> converter lock vacuum switch energizes the lockup ? I don't think mine
>>>>> is locking up , the RPM's should hold steady with minor throttle
>>>>> variations and it doesn't . I want to put a voltmeter or a light bulb
>>>>> on it while driving on level road at a steady speed to check it .
>>>>
>>>> Converter lock is done via oil pressure being switched to it by solenoid
>>>> in the tranny. There is a throttle position switch (was on right side
>>>> of my injector pump) somewhere on your carb/injector body that tracks
>>>> throttle position. Take your foot off the gas it unlocks. It also goes
>>>> through the brake pedal switch. Step on the brake, it unlocks. Another
>>>> switch in tranny that won't allow it to lock till its in at least 2nd
>>>> gear.
>>>>
>>>> You probably need the wiring diagram to track it down effectively.
>>>
>>> On a gas truck it has a vac switch inplace of the throttle position
>>> switch. Most common problem with no lockup was a cracked vac hose
>>> IIRC.
>>
>> Yes I have the vacuum switch . I'm trying to figure out which wire
>> "goes hot" when the converter is supposed to lock . I know for a fact it
>> was working before the rebuild . The solenoid was bad , it's wired on
>> the same fuse as the radio (odd , ennit?) and every time it would try to
>> lock it'd blow the fuse and kill the radio . The trans has been rebuilt
>> with a new solenoid and many other parts including a shift kit . I'll be
>> checking that hose ... But not tomorrow . Tomorrow I'll be replacing the
>> bearing on the other front wheel . Should be easier than the first ,
>> I've gotten some better press blocks now .
>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't I remember you installing a different intake/carb setup on this?
>>>> Did you transfer over the throttle position sensor for it?
>>>>
>>>> Dealership thought it would run hot without the torque locking up on
>>>> long drives...
>>> An extra heavy duty tranny fluid converter is ALWAYS a good idea on a
>>> truck with an automatic - especially if it has a lockup converter that
>>> may or may not be locking optimally.
>>>
>>
>> I don't know if the converter is a heavy duty unit , I do know it's
>> been rebuilt . I needed to add .125" spacers between it and the flywheel
>> to get proper pump drive engagement .
>
>
> Correction - that was supposed to read "extra heavy duty tranny fluid
> COOLER"!!!!!
>

That makes sense . All mine has is the one in the radiator . But then
I'm not planning on using it to haul heavy loads or pull heavy trailers
for a living though it may do both occasionally . This truck is a toy
for me now - and I've been very up front about that to my wife . She
crabs a bit about the money I'm spending on it ... but then if it wasn't
the truck it'd be something else . Every once in a while I'll spend some
on the guns to give her a different subject .
--
Snag
Men don't protect women because they're weak .
We protect them because they're important .

On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 19:38:55 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

>On 10/7/2023 4:22 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 08:46:40 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 22:48:57 -0500
>>> Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> A 700R4 trans question . Any idea which wire coming out of the
>>>> converter lock vacuum switch energizes the lockup ? I don't think mine
>>>> is locking up , the RPM's should hold steady with minor throttle
>>>> variations and it doesn't . I want to put a voltmeter or a light bulb
>>>> on it while driving on level road at a steady speed to check it .
>>>
>>> Converter lock is done via oil pressure being switched to it by solenoid
>>> in the tranny. There is a throttle position switch (was on right side
>>> of my injector pump) somewhere on your carb/injector body that tracks
>>> throttle position. Take your foot off the gas it unlocks. It also goes
>>> through the brake pedal switch. Step on the brake, it unlocks. Another
>>> switch in tranny that won't allow it to lock till its in at least 2nd
>>> gear.
>>>
>>> You probably need the wiring diagram to track it down effectively.
>>
>> On a gas truck it has a vac switch inplace of the throttle position
>> switch. Most common problem with no lockup was a cracked vac hose
>> IIRC.
>
> Yes I have the vacuum switch . I'm trying to figure out which wire
>"goes hot" when the converter is supposed to lock . I know for a fact it
>was working before the rebuild . The solenoid was bad , it's wired on
>the same fuse as the radio (odd , ennit?) and every time it would try to
>lock it'd blow the fuse and kill the radio . The trans has been rebuilt
>with a new solenoid and many other parts including a shift kit . I'll be
>checking that hose ... But not tomorrow . Tomorrow I'll be replacing the
>bearing on the other front wheel . Should be easier than the first ,
>I've gotten some better press blocks now .
>
>>>
>>> Don't I remember you installing a different intake/carb setup on this?
>>> Did you transfer over the throttle position sensor for it?
>>>
>>> Dealership thought it would run hot without the torque locking up on
>>> long drives...
>> An extra heavy duty tranny fluid converter is ALWAYS a good idea on a
>> truck with an automatic - especially if it has a lockup converter that
>> may or may not be locking optimally.
>>
>
> I don't know if the converter is a heavy duty unit , I do know it's
>been rebuilt . I needed to add .125" spacers between it and the flywheel
>to get proper pump drive engagement .
Get your ohm meter. Disconnect the plug from the vac switch. Check
harness continuity to ground. Whichever one has ground continuity is
the switched side - the other is the powered side - assuming the
solenoid is grouinded through the harness. Ir does the switch GROUND
the solenoid - with power supplied to the solenoid? That has a 4 wire
connector on the tranny???

If it hasn't been screwed with get the factory wiring diagram and
check wire colors.

"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
news:h264iipjkaterirlli3fijhctstdvg1vba@4ax.com...

>- the shops they worked in are long gone and the machinery may no
>longer exist. They used to do crankshafts and camshafts too - and
>nitride all kinds of parts (TuffTride) - still a place here in
>Kitchener that does that - Plasma nitriding.

Speaking of gone, there was a shop near here that could rebuild worn
hydraulic cylinder shafts, IIRC it involved nitriding or hard chrome as
appropriate. They were my source for short rod and tubing cutoffs as lathe
stock. If a classic vehicle axle can't be replaced a hydraulic shop might be
an alternative to an automotive one.

On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 17:18:58 -0400
Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

>On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 08:35:14 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 22:56:25 -0400
>>Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
>>
>><snip>
> [...]
>>
>>It's can't hold 60mph in overdrive (4th) on just a moderate incline. It
>>won't hold in 3rd gear on a substantial highway incline. I just got
>>used to speeding up before hills and letting it fall back to 40-45mph at
>>the crest to keep it in overdrive. Top speed was maybe 90mph in 3rd.
>>
>>It's only rated at 130hp, badly made torque converters in my opinion...
> Forgot which oil burner you were laking about, The 387 Detroit was
>pretty anemic, particularly in stock form - and the highway geare they
>put on them for fuel economy didn't help ANYTHING. They WERE part of
>the problem with the torque converters though. Steeper gears unload
>the converter making them last a lot longer.
>
> Those things were "flatlanders"

I had mine in for warranty head gasket leaking coolant three times. It
was only like the second year the 6.2 was out, maybe first.

The torque converter on mine had 6 mounting pads to the transfer plate.
Most 700R4 transmissions use a 3 pad plate hook-up from what I
understand. Was recently talking to a knowledgeable neighbor about it
and he said it sounded like the 400 turbo pad arrangement. When I had
to replace it in the late 1980's the transmission shop had never seen
anything like it before and they worked on lots of 700R4's. The recent
repair for it was the same per the new owner. Transmission shop had
never seen it before nor could they find a new replacement. Had it sent
out to a place in Kansas? that rebuilt it and sent it back.

Not being able to look inside... we (tranny mechanic and me) thought it
had broke a weld where one of the "fans" was fastened to a coupling
hub. It slipped really bad but I could still move the truck by using
low range in the transfer case. Would have really liked to see
the failure, could better guess then why it had failed. It was
maybe first year production for the 700R4 too. Lots of failure points
still being determined🤷

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI