On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 05:04:49 -0400, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 22:27:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 10/27/2023 3:18 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 17:32:36 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
>>> <doug.landau@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 4:34:04?PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I know all to well that happens. Which is another reason why I don't
>>>>> depend on the red light to stop traffic while I cross.
>>>>>> Assume that all road users will stop
>>>>>> and look?
>>>>
>>>> That's "all too well" you dork
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh my, I've been grammer flamed. I plead "guilty as charged," and
>>> throw myself at the mercy of the court as I await entencing.
>>
>>It was a spelling mistake, not a grammer [sic] mistake. And it's not
>>unusual, as the subsequent sentence proved.
>>
>>Poor spelling correlates with low intelligence.
>
>Nonsense
>
>https://leelofland.com/15-famous-thinkers-who-couldnt-spell/
>
>>Sadly, many of those
>>with low intelligence don't know what "correlate" means.
>
>Some low intelligence people don't know that correlation does not
>imply causation
>
>>> Foe what it's worth, this is not my first offense and I doubt it will
>>> be my last.
>>
>>The tricycle guy is SO proud of his ignorance!
>
>Yep, I don't bother with spell checking where it does matter. I'm very
>unlike the people who seek to influence others by falsly presenting
>themselves as superior.

Have you noticed how Frank and Tom both spend considerable time
hurling insults and seldom, if ever, provide any evidence that their
"facts" are real. Apparently the mere fact they open their mouth is to
be accepted as evidence of the validity of their statements.
And when others provide evidence that their "facts" are simply
figments on their imagination they "run away and hide" rather then
admit their short comings.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 10/28/2023 3:36 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Am Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:50:00 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
>
>> On 10/26/2023 10:33 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>
> [I wrote]
>
>>>
>>>> It's difficult, though. For some early birthday party, I organized a
>>>> bicycle ride. Some guests had absysmal bikes, other couldn't barely
>>>> balance their bike or shift gears and brake.
>>
>> For many years I volunteered at various "bike rodeos." In the U.S.,
>> that's an occasional attempt at teaching kids _something_ about riding
>> bikes.
>
> It was a _birthday party_, no teaching was intended. That's exactly how
> our kids learned to ride a bike. Playfully at first, when they switched
> from a tiny tricycle they had ridden to kindergarten. We bought a
> second-hand children's bike with 12-inch tires, walked to a large
> parking lot of a company building that was not used but was accessible
> on weekends, and let the boy play with the bike, sometimes explaining
> what he might try and how to do it. Learning how to brake was funny.
> There was a large pile of sand in one edge, a leftover from construction
> work, ideal as an obstacle for failed braking attempts. :-)
>
> It only took a few days, spread over a few weeks to get from "can't do
> that!" to some impressive bike handling skills. Children learn the
> necessary motorics fast, if you let them. Of course, that's just the
> first step. They learned the rules of the road later, first on joint
> bike rides in the neighborhood, then on longer rides during vacations,
> mostly by watching us and sometimes by explaining strict rules. For
> example: don't cross an intersection on the bike, when riding on the
> sidewalk. Children _must_ ride on the sidewalk up to an age of eight, in
> Germany. Unfortunately, a somewhat recent change in the StVO allowed
> adults to use the sidelwalk too, when accompanying a child, but didn't
> allow a child to accompany a parent when using the road.
>
> Of course, we ignored that rule sometimes. There are sidewalks where it
> is life-threatening to ride a bike on. I still remember the snide remark
> of an acquaintance: "Do you think I pay attention to cyclists on the
> sidewalk when I drive out of my driveway? They are not allowed to ride
> there!".

The youngest kids in the extended family learned bicycling by running
about on "balance bikes," special little things with no pedals,
propelled by scooting. It seems by far the fastest way to learn.

And when they were very, very young they were confined to sidewalks or
parks. On one super-busy road in their town they still use one sidewalk
or sidepath.

But! On a "Bike to School" special day, one of the kids was nearly hit
by a driver zooming through a turn without checking for bikes. And about
a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was killed while riding
"contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly make a right
turn out of a parking lot.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 10/27/2023 12:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 10/27/2023 4:36 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It would be funny if it wasn't so concerning. Every time you list a few
>>>> disadvantages of traffic separation, which is to restrict bicycle
>>>> traffic to the roadsides, someone comes around and tells you about the
>>>> advantages of riding along railroad tracks, boardwalks, or towpaths
>>>> along canals amd rivers, i.e., where there are no intersections and
>>>> junctions only on the opposite side.
>>>>
>>>> I live in a medium-sized city with the Rhine flowing through it. I can
>>>> walk from my home to the Rhine promenade in ten minutes, but just two
>>>> kilometers from that point a climb to a plateau 100 meters higher
>>>> begins. Even further up it becomes somewhat hilly. However, the
>>>> discussion about bicycle infrastructure is dominated by people who never
>>>> leave the Rhine plain, at least not by bicycle.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, the concept of fenced special routes, from which you can
>>>> only rarely switch to the real road network and where crossing and
>>>> turning are not even provided for, has also been tried to be implemented
>>>> in areas where the prerequisite - an extensive geographical obstacle on
>>>> one side, a river, a railway, a canal, a highway is not given. The
>>>> consequences are terrible.
>>>>
>>>> It has been many years since I cycled along the Rhine promenade instead
>>>> walking there, but I have often cycled 50-100 km roundtrip, from 60
>>>> meters above sea level up to 500 or 600 meters and back again, since I
>>>> retired. The only way to do this quickly and safely was to avoid areas
>>>> with cycling infrastructure. My commute to my workplace on the other
>>>> side of the Rhine was similar, only 12 km each way, but about 150 meters
>>>> of elevation gain, through former villages and a meandering network of
>>>> roads, small and large - no river or railway in sight. By avoiding
>>>> bicycling infrastructure and and by switching to a real racing bike I
>>>> was able to reduce the time required from two to one hour. It was more
>>>> fun too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> That reflects my experience as well.
>>
>> London Embankment is and still is at times near gridlock so and pulsing ie
>> stop go and so on. So while it’s possible to reach higher speeds on road
>> the time from Westminster to tower seems broadly similar, and since you can
>> hold high speeds, some folks will average 20mph over the few miles, helped
>> by the cycleways width and that it has relatively few traffic lights if
>> going directly on, which isn’t the case on the road.
>>
>> I do suspect can reach higher speeds on road as well draft effect from
>> traffic and some of the tunnel dips, but you will hit both more traffic and
>> traffic lights, looking at my times both pre and post the cycleway it’s a
>> fairly tight cluster, ie nothing in it speed wise for a fast ish road bike.
>
> I think most bike commuters are not trying to average 20 mph, so the
> ability to do that, if it exists, is not a very important advantage. I
> also think that very few segregated bike facilities confer that
> advantage. It's certainly not part of the promotion spiel.

Pre Installation it was used heavily by folks even myself if I had business
in town, so it’s a bare minimum 15 mile commute with plenty like myself at
20+ one way, so it always needed to be able to be ridden at speed folks
holding 20mph give or take. Which it can and is ridden as not by everyone
but certainly at commuting times a sizeable number will be doing that.

Yes absolutely not all or many cycle commuters will be doing that, but in a
self selecting way if your fit enough to cycle a 40 mile round trip you can
probably ride fast, and the embankment always was fast, and remains so,
it’s flat good surface with relatively few junctions comparatively, and so
on.

So it needed to work for fast roadie and tourists on Boris bikes, and
everything in between, it was a flag ship project so if the roadies had
just ignored it well this would of been hugely embarrassing to put it
mildly!
>
> The promotion spiel is "This will finally make bicycling SAFE!" or
> worse, "Riding cannot be safe without this!" But lacking a shoreline,
> freeway or railroad at one side, almost all sidepaths subject cyclists
> to crossing conflicts, often exacerbated by weird intersection geometry.
> I mentioned the woman yesterday, looking at her cellphone as she pulled
> out across our path. She obviously didn't think "I'm crossing a
> bi-directional bike path. People could be coming from my right."
>
> Those people who have been taught about such dangers probably will be on
> the alert for such facility-generated complications. Those who believe
> "It's a bike path! I'm safe!" will not be on the alert.
>
> But how weird to have to get extra knowledge to avoid special dangers on
> a "finally be SAFE!" facility.
>
Roger Merriman

On 10/28/2023 11:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/28/2023 3:36 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>> Am Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:50:00 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
>>
>>> On 10/26/2023 10:33 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>
>> [I wrote]
>>
>>>>
>>>>> It's difficult, though. For some early birthday party,
>>>>> I organized a
>>>>> bicycle ride. Some guests had absysmal bikes, other
>>>>> couldn't barely
>>>>> balance their bike or shift gears and brake.
>>>
>>> For many years I volunteered at various "bike rodeos." In
>>> the U.S.,
>>> that's an occasional attempt at teaching kids _something_
>>> about riding
>>> bikes.
>>
>> It was a _birthday party_, no teaching was intended.
>> That's exactly how
>> our kids learned to ride a bike. Playfully at first, when
>> they switched
>> from a tiny tricycle they had ridden to kindergarten. We
>> bought a
>> second-hand children's bike with 12-inch tires, walked to
>> a large
>> parking lot of a company building that was not used but
>> was accessible
>> on weekends, and let the boy play with the bike, sometimes
>> explaining
>> what he might try and how to do it. Learning how to brake
>> was funny.
>> There was a large pile of sand in one edge, a leftover
>> from construction
>> work, ideal as an obstacle for failed braking attempts. :-)
>>
>> It only took a few days, spread over a few weeks to get
>> from "can't do
>> that!" to some impressive bike handling skills. Children
>> learn the
>> necessary motorics fast, if you let them. Of course,
>> that's just the
>> first step. They learned the rules of the road later,
>> first on joint
>> bike rides in the neighborhood, then on longer rides
>> during vacations,
>> mostly by watching us and sometimes by explaining strict
>> rules. For
>> example: don't cross an intersection on the bike, when
>> riding on the
>> sidewalk. Children _must_ ride on the sidewalk up to an
>> age of eight, in
>> Germany. Unfortunately, a somewhat recent change in the
>> StVO allowed
>> adults to use the sidelwalk too, when accompanying a
>> child, but didn't
>> allow a child to accompany a parent when using the road.
>>
>> Of course, we ignored that rule sometimes. There are
>> sidewalks where it
>> is life-threatening to ride a bike on. I still remember
>> the snide remark
>> of an acquaintance: "Do you think I pay attention to
>> cyclists on the
>> sidewalk when I drive out of my driveway? They are not
>> allowed to ride
>> there!".
>
> The youngest kids in the extended family learned bicycling
> by running about on "balance bikes," special little things
> with no pedals, propelled by scooting. It seems by far the
> fastest way to learn.
>
> And when they were very, very young they were confined to
> sidewalks or parks. On one super-busy road in their town
> they still use one sidewalk or sidepath.
>
> But! On a "Bike to School" special day, one of the kids was
> nearly hit by a driver zooming through a turn without
> checking for bikes. And about a quarter mile away, one of
> their classmates was killed while riding "contraflow" on a
> sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly make a right turn out
> of a parking lot.
>

Sad and tragic but see my comments the other day about The
Planners and humans' natural instinct to thwart plans.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 17:46:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 05:04:49 -0400, Catrike Rider
><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 22:27:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 10/27/2023 3:18 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 17:32:36 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
>>>> <doug.landau@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 4:34:04?PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know all to well that happens. Which is another reason why I don't
>>>>>> depend on the red light to stop traffic while I cross.
>>>>>>> Assume that all road users will stop
>>>>>>> and look?
>>>>>
>>>>> That's "all too well" you dork
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh my, I've been grammer flamed. I plead "guilty as charged," and
>>>> throw myself at the mercy of the court as I await entencing.
>>>
>>>It was a spelling mistake, not a grammer [sic] mistake. And it's not
>>>unusual, as the subsequent sentence proved.
>>>
>>>Poor spelling correlates with low intelligence.
>>
>>Nonsense
>>
>>https://leelofland.com/15-famous-thinkers-who-couldnt-spell/
>>
>>>Sadly, many of those
>>>with low intelligence don't know what "correlate" means.
>>
>>Some low intelligence people don't know that correlation does not
>>imply causation
>>
>>>> Foe what it's worth, this is not my first offense and I doubt it will
>>>> be my last.
>>>
>>>The tricycle guy is SO proud of his ignorance!
>>
>>Yep, I don't bother with spell checking where it does matter. I'm very
>>unlike the people who seek to influence others by falsly presenting
>>themselves as superior.
>
>Have you noticed how Frank and Tom both spend considerable time
>hurling insults and seldom, if ever, provide any evidence that their
>"facts" are real. Apparently the mere fact they open their mouth is to
>be accepted as evidence of the validity of their statements.
>And when others provide evidence that their "facts" are simply
>figments on their imagination they "run away and hide" rather then
>admit their short comings.

Some people will never acknowledge their shortcomings. That kind of
person seems to believe that admitting a mistake tarnishes their
image.

Of course the opposite is true.
Attempts to polish a turd has never ended up well

On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 2:04:55 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 22:27:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 10/27/2023 3:18 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 17:32:36 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
> >> <doug....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 4:34:04?PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I know all to well that happens. Which is another reason why I don't
> >>>> depend on the red light to stop traffic while I cross.
> >>>>> Assume that all road users will stop
> >>>>> and look?
> >>>
> >>> That's "all too well" you dork
> >>
> >>
> >> Oh my, I've been grammer flamed. I plead "guilty as charged," and
> >> throw myself at the mercy of the court as I await entencing.
> >
> >It was a spelling mistake, not a grammer [sic] mistake. And it's not
> >unusual, as the subsequent sentence proved.
> >
> >Poor spelling correlates with low intelligence.
> Nonsense
>
> https://leelofland.com/15-famous-thinkers-who-couldnt-spell/
> >Sadly, many of those
> >with low intelligence don't know what "correlate" means.
> Some low intelligence people don't know that correlation does not
> imply causation
> >> Foe what it's worth, this is not my first offense and I doubt it will
> >> be my last.
> >
> >The tricycle guy is SO proud of his ignorance!
> Yep, I don't bother with spell checking where it does matter. I'm very
> unlike the people who seek to influence others by falsly presenting
> themselves as superior.
Without a spelling checker, Krygowski could not make himself understood and he has the gall to criticize the spelling of others.

On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 2:20:01 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 17:46:45 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 05:04:49 -0400, Catrike Rider
> ><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >
> >>On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 22:27:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On 10/27/2023 3:18 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 17:32:36 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
> >>>> <doug....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 4:34:04?PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I know all to well that happens. Which is another reason why I don't
> >>>>>> depend on the red light to stop traffic while I cross.
> >>>>>>> Assume that all road users will stop
> >>>>>>> and look?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That's "all too well" you dork
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh my, I've been grammer flamed. I plead "guilty as charged," and
> >>>> throw myself at the mercy of the court as I await entencing.
> >>>
> >>>It was a spelling mistake, not a grammer [sic] mistake. And it's not
> >>>unusual, as the subsequent sentence proved.
> >>>
> >>>Poor spelling correlates with low intelligence.
> >>
> >>Nonsense
> >>
> >>https://leelofland.com/15-famous-thinkers-who-couldnt-spell/
> >>
> >>>Sadly, many of those
> >>>with low intelligence don't know what "correlate" means.
> >>
> >>Some low intelligence people don't know that correlation does not
> >>imply causation
> >>
> >>>> Foe what it's worth, this is not my first offense and I doubt it will
> >>>> be my last.
> >>>
> >>>The tricycle guy is SO proud of his ignorance!
> >>
> >>Yep, I don't bother with spell checking where it does matter. I'm very
> >>unlike the people who seek to influence others by falsly presenting
> >>themselves as superior.
> >
> >Have you noticed how Frank and Tom both spend considerable time
> >hurling insults and seldom, if ever, provide any evidence that their
> >"facts" are real. Apparently the mere fact they open their mouth is to
> >be accepted as evidence of the validity of their statements.
> >And when others provide evidence that their "facts" are simply
> >figments on their imagination they "run away and hide" rather then
> >admit their short comings.
> Some people will never acknowledge their shortcomings. That kind of
> person seems to believe that admitting a mistake tarnishes their
> image.
>
> Of course the opposite is true.
>
> Attempts to polish a turd has never ended up well

To Slocomb, "proof" is misinformation published on the internet that he can google. Too bad he has no idea what he sounds like.

Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
> On 10/28/2023 3:36 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>> Am Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:50:00 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
>>
>>> On 10/26/2023 10:33 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>
>> [I wrote]
>>
>>>>
>>>>> It's difficult, though. For some early birthday party, I organized a
>>>>> bicycle ride. Some guests had absysmal bikes, other couldn't barely
>>>>> balance their bike or shift gears and brake.
>>>
>>> For many years I volunteered at various "bike rodeos." In the U.S.,
>>> that's an occasional attempt at teaching kids _something_ about riding
>>> bikes.
>>
>> It was a _birthday party_, no teaching was intended. That's exactly how
>> our kids learned to ride a bike. Playfully at first, when they switched
>> from a tiny tricycle they had ridden to kindergarten. We bought a
>> second-hand children's bike with 12-inch tires, walked to a large
>> parking lot of a company building that was not used but was accessible
>> on weekends, and let the boy play with the bike, sometimes explaining
>> what he might try and how to do it. Learning how to brake was funny.
>> There was a large pile of sand in one edge, a leftover from construction
>> work, ideal as an obstacle for failed braking attempts. :-)
>>
>> It only took a few days, spread over a few weeks to get from "can't do
>> that!" to some impressive bike handling skills. Children learn the
>> necessary motorics fast, if you let them. Of course, that's just the
>> first step. They learned the rules of the road later, first on joint
>> bike rides in the neighborhood, then on longer rides during vacations,
>> mostly by watching us and sometimes by explaining strict rules. For
>> example: don't cross an intersection on the bike, when riding on the
>> sidewalk. Children _must_ ride on the sidewalk up to an age of eight, in
>> Germany. Unfortunately, a somewhat recent change in the StVO allowed
>> adults to use the sidelwalk too, when accompanying a child, but didn't
>> allow a child to accompany a parent when using the road.
>>
>> Of course, we ignored that rule sometimes. There are sidewalks where it
>> is life-threatening to ride a bike on. I still remember the snide remark
>> of an acquaintance: "Do you think I pay attention to cyclists on the
>> sidewalk when I drive out of my driveway? They are not allowed to ride
>> there!".
>
> The youngest kids in the extended family learned bicycling by running
> about on "balance bikes," special little things with no pedals,
> propelled by scooting. It seems by far the fastest way to learn.
>
> And when they were very, very young they were confined to sidewalks or
> parks. On one super-busy road in their town they still use one sidewalk
> or sidepath.
>
> But! On a "Bike to School" special day, one of the kids was nearly hit
> by a driver zooming through a turn without checking for bikes.

> And about
> a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was killed while riding
> "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly make a right
> turn out of a parking lot.

This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in a
private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of riding on
sidewalks, especially contra-flow.

Rolf

Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
> On 10/28/2023 3:36 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>> Am Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:50:00 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
>>
>>> On 10/26/2023 10:33 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>
>> [I wrote]
>>
>>>>
>>>>> It's difficult, though. For some early birthday party, I organized a
>>>>> bicycle ride. Some guests had absysmal bikes, other couldn't barely
>>>>> balance their bike or shift gears and brake.
>>>
>>> For many years I volunteered at various "bike rodeos." In the U.S.,
>>> that's an occasional attempt at teaching kids _something_ about riding
>>> bikes.
>>
>> It was a _birthday party_, no teaching was intended. That's exactly how
>> our kids learned to ride a bike. Playfully at first, when they switched
>> from a tiny tricycle they had ridden to kindergarten. We bought a
>> second-hand children's bike with 12-inch tires, walked to a large
>> parking lot of a company building that was not used but was accessible
>> on weekends, and let the boy play with the bike, sometimes explaining
>> what he might try and how to do it. Learning how to brake was funny.
>> There was a large pile of sand in one edge, a leftover from construction
>> work, ideal as an obstacle for failed braking attempts. :-)
>>
>> It only took a few days, spread over a few weeks to get from "can't do
>> that!" to some impressive bike handling skills. Children learn the
>> necessary motorics fast, if you let them. Of course, that's just the
>> first step. They learned the rules of the road later, first on joint
>> bike rides in the neighborhood, then on longer rides during vacations,
>> mostly by watching us and sometimes by explaining strict rules. For
>> example: don't cross an intersection on the bike, when riding on the
>> sidewalk. Children _must_ ride on the sidewalk up to an age of eight, in
>> Germany. Unfortunately, a somewhat recent change in the StVO allowed
>> adults to use the sidelwalk too, when accompanying a child, but didn't
>> allow a child to accompany a parent when using the road.
>>
>> Of course, we ignored that rule sometimes. There are sidewalks where it
>> is life-threatening to ride a bike on. I still remember the snide remark
>> of an acquaintance: "Do you think I pay attention to cyclists on the
>> sidewalk when I drive out of my driveway? They are not allowed to ride
>> there!".
>
> The youngest kids in the extended family learned bicycling by running
> about on "balance bikes," special little things with no pedals,
> propelled by scooting. It seems by far the fastest way to learn.
>
> And when they were very, very young they were confined to sidewalks or
> parks. On one super-busy road in their town they still use one sidewalk
> or sidepath.
>
> But! On a "Bike to School" special day, one of the kids was nearly hit
> by a driver zooming through a turn without checking for bikes.

> And about
> a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was killed while riding
> "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly make a right
> turn out of a parking lot.

This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in a
private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of riding on
sidewalks, especially contra-flow.

Rolf

On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
>>
>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was killed
>> while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly
>> make a right turn out of a parking lot.
>
> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in a
> private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of riding on
> sidewalks, especially contra-flow.

That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
learning anything about riding a bicycle.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/30/2023 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
>>>
>>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their
>>> classmates was killed while riding "contraflow" on a
>>> sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly make a right turn
>>> out of a parking lot.
>>
>> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's
>> class (in a private primary school) highlighting the
>> unexpected dangers of riding on sidewalks, especially
>> contra-flow.
>
> That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock
> actually learning anything about riding a bicycle.
>

Everyone is in favor of intellectual rigor, inquiry and
education. Many question the institutions surrounding
(smothering) actual education.

Mr Mantel does not hold an advanced degree in bicycle riding
and is not accredited. And yet he knows something and was
helpful outside of formal institutions.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 8:30:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/30/2023 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
> >>>
> >>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their
> >>> classmates was killed while riding "contraflow" on a
> >>> sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly make a right turn
> >>> out of a parking lot.
> >>
> >> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's
> >> class (in a private primary school) highlighting the
> >> unexpected dangers of riding on sidewalks, especially
> >> contra-flow.
> >
> > That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock
> > actually learning anything about riding a bicycle.
> >
> Everyone is in favor of intellectual rigor, inquiry and
> education. Many question the institutions surrounding
> (smothering) actual education.
>
> Mr Mantel does not hold an advanced degree in bicycle riding
> and is not accredited. And yet he knows something and was
> helpful outside of formal institutions.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Who does hold an advanced degree in bicycle riding, The pros sure as hell don't as proven by pile-up after pile-up. But Frank believes that you can learn a manual art by reading a book.

On 10/30/2023 11:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/30/2023 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
>>>>
>>>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was
>>>> killed while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to
>>>> quickly make a right turn out of a parking lot.
>>>
>>> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in
>>> a private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of
>>> riding on sidewalks, especially contra-flow.
>>
>> That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
>> learning anything about riding a bicycle.
>>
>
> Everyone is in favor of intellectual rigor, inquiry  and education.

You may have missed some posts here. John and the tricycle rider have
gone on and on disparaging learning anything about riding a bike. For
example, John has described little kids riding, as evidence that there's
nothing much to learn.

> Many
> question the institutions surrounding (smothering) actual education.
>
> Mr Mantel does not hold an advanced degree in bicycle riding and is not
> accredited.  And yet he knows something and was helpful outside of
> formal institutions.

Of course it's possible to have and impart correct information without
formal credentials.

But there often, or generally, is value in formal credentials. I
described parents yelling at us volunteers during a bike safety
presentation, saying they would NEVER let their kids ride the same
direction as other traffic. A system of reasonable credentials would
filter those people out.

And that's just one bit of blatant misinformation that gets thrown
around. Others that come to mind are that you don't need lights at night
if you have reflectors; and that cyclists must always get out of the way
so they don't slow down motorists; and that bicycling isn't safe unless
it's done in a "protected bike lane" or other kiddie path.

I can go much further, into braking techniques, emergency maneuvers,
etc. To get teaching certification, a candidate has to demonstrate
knowledge and/or skill regarding many things typical cyclists don't know.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/30/2023 12:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/30/2023 11:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 10/30/2023 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
>>>>>
>>>>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their
>>>>> classmates was killed while riding "contraflow" on a
>>>>> sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly make a right
>>>>> turn out of a parking lot.
>>>>
>>>> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my
>>>> son's class (in a private primary school) highlighting
>>>> the unexpected dangers of riding on sidewalks,
>>>> especially contra-flow.
>>>
>>> That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock
>>> actually learning anything about riding a bicycle.
>>>
>>
>> Everyone is in favor of intellectual rigor, inquiry  and
>> education.
>
> You may have missed some posts here. John and the tricycle
> rider have gone on and on disparaging learning anything
> about riding a bike. For example, John has described little
> kids riding, as evidence that there's nothing much to learn.
>
>> Many question the institutions surrounding (smothering)
>> actual education.
>>
>> Mr Mantel does not hold an advanced degree in bicycle
>> riding and is not accredited.  And yet he knows something
>> and was helpful outside of formal institutions.
>
> Of course it's possible to have and impart correct
> information without formal credentials.
>
> But there often, or generally, is value in formal
> credentials. I described parents yelling at us volunteers
> during a bike safety presentation, saying they would NEVER
> let their kids ride the same direction as other traffic. A
> system of reasonable credentials would filter those people out.
>
> And that's just one bit of blatant misinformation that gets
> thrown around. Others that come to mind are that you don't
> need lights at night if you have reflectors; and that
> cyclists must always get out of the way so they don't slow
> down motorists; and that bicycling isn't safe unless it's
> done in a "protected bike lane" or other kiddie path.
>
> I can go much further, into braking techniques, emergency
> maneuvers, etc. To get teaching certification, a candidate
> has to demonstrate knowledge and/or skill regarding many
> things typical cyclists don't know.
>

While I agree with you about misinformation, I will share
something interesting about that. Out here in rural USA,
people habitually and rigorously walk facing traffic.
Always. In urban areas (especially with sidewalks) there's
no pattern but think the cultural meme of 'walk facing
traffic' may influence the idiotic cycling behavior.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:15:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
>>>
>>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was killed
>>> while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly
>>> make a right turn out of a parking lot.
>>
>> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in a
>> private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of riding on
>> sidewalks, especially contra-flow.
>
>That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
>learning anything about riding a bicycle.

I don't know anyone who mocks learning about riding a bicycle. Back
when I did it, I think it was about 1947/1948, it was a delightful
experience. I was all alone in the young stock pasture, but I think
there were some heifers watching me.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 13:06:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 10/30/2023 11:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 10/30/2023 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
>>>>>
>>>>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was
>>>>> killed while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to
>>>>> quickly make a right turn out of a parking lot.
>>>>
>>>> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in
>>>> a private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of
>>>> riding on sidewalks, especially contra-flow.
>>>
>>> That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
>>> learning anything about riding a bicycle.
>>>
>>
>> Everyone is in favor of intellectual rigor, inquiry  and education.
>
>You may have missed some posts here. John and the tricycle rider have
>gone on and on disparaging learning anything about riding a bike.

Utter nonsense. As for me, I do disparage bicycle classes, but not
learning.

>For
>example, John has described little kids riding, as evidence that there's
>nothing much to learn.
>
>> Many
>> question the institutions surrounding (smothering) actual education.

+1
>> Mr Mantel does not hold an advanced degree in bicycle riding and is not
>> accredited.  And yet he knows something and was helpful outside of
>> formal institutions.
>
>Of course it's possible to have and impart correct information without
>formal credentials.
>
>But there often, or generally, is value in formal credentials. I
>described parents yelling at us volunteers during a bike safety
>presentation, saying they would NEVER let their kids ride the same
>direction as other traffic. A system of reasonable credentials would
>filter those people out.
>
>And that's just one bit of blatant misinformation that gets thrown
>around. Others that come to mind are that you don't need lights at night
>if you have reflectors; and that cyclists must always get out of the way
>so they don't slow down motorists; and that bicycling isn't safe unless
>it's done in a "protected bike lane" or other kiddie path.
>
>I can go much further, into braking techniques, emergency maneuvers,
>etc. To get teaching certification, a candidate has to demonstrate
>knowledge and/or skill regarding many things typical cyclists don't know.

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.....

There's no doubt in my mind that a 'bicycle riding instructor" would
simply get in my way.

Anybody who would pay for that foolishment is as big a dupe as the
"instructors."

On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:04:55 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:15:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
> >>>
> >>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was killed
> >>> while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly
> >>> make a right turn out of a parking lot.
> >>
> >> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in a
> >> private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of riding on
> >> sidewalks, especially contra-flow.
> >
> >That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
> >learning anything about riding a bicycle.
> I don't know anyone who mocks learning about riding a bicycle. Back
> when I did it, I think it was about 1947/1948, it was a delightful
> experience. I was all alone in the young stock pasture, but I think
> there were some heifers watching me.

And the heifers were probably more knowledgeable about riding properly than Krygowski.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:25:45 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:04:55?AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:15:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> >> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
>> >>>
>> >>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was killed
>> >>> while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly
>> >>> make a right turn out of a parking lot.
>> >>
>> >> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in a
>> >> private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of riding on
>> >> sidewalks, especially contra-flow.
>> >
>> >That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
>> >learning anything about riding a bicycle.
>> I don't know anyone who mocks learning about riding a bicycle. Back
>> when I did it, I think it was about 1947/1948, it was a delightful
>> experience. I was all alone in the young stock pasture, but I think
>> there were some heifers watching me.
>
>And the heifers were probably more knowledgeable about riding properly than Krygowski.

I do occasionally see heifers out riding on their bicycles, mostly on
electric bicycles.

On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:25:39 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 13:06:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 10/30/2023 11:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 10/30/2023 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >>>> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was
> >>>>> killed while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to
> >>>>> quickly make a right turn out of a parking lot.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in
> >>>> a private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of
> >>>> riding on sidewalks, especially contra-flow.
> >>>
> >>> That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
> >>> learning anything about riding a bicycle.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Everyone is in favor of intellectual rigor, inquiry and education.
> >
> >You may have missed some posts here. John and the tricycle rider have
> >gone on and on disparaging learning anything about riding a bike.
> Utter nonsense. As for me, I do disparage bicycle classes, but not
> learning.
> >For
> >example, John has described little kids riding, as evidence that there's
> >nothing much to learn.
> >
> >> Many
> >> question the institutions surrounding (smothering) actual education.
> +1
> >> Mr Mantel does not hold an advanced degree in bicycle riding and is not
> >> accredited. And yet he knows something and was helpful outside of
> >> formal institutions.
> >
> >Of course it's possible to have and impart correct information without
> >formal credentials.
> >
> >But there often, or generally, is value in formal credentials. I
> >described parents yelling at us volunteers during a bike safety
> >presentation, saying they would NEVER let their kids ride the same
> >direction as other traffic. A system of reasonable credentials would
> >filter those people out.
> >
> >And that's just one bit of blatant misinformation that gets thrown
> >around. Others that come to mind are that you don't need lights at night
> >if you have reflectors; and that cyclists must always get out of the way
> >so they don't slow down motorists; and that bicycling isn't safe unless
> >it's done in a "protected bike lane" or other kiddie path.
> >
> >I can go much further, into braking techniques, emergency maneuvers,
> >etc. To get teaching certification, a candidate has to demonstrate
> >knowledge and/or skill regarding many things typical cyclists don't know..
> BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.....
>
> There's no doubt in my mind that a 'bicycle riding instructor" would
> simply get in my way.
>
> Anybody who would pay for that foolishment is as big a dupe as the
> "instructors."
Well, remember that everyone lined up for covid-19 shots and the mRNA vaccines are not generating spike proteins in ever organ of the body. This is slowly killing the immune system off of many people whose immune systems doesn't learn to kill the so vaccinated cells and is causing everything from premature dementia to cancers. We don't know where this will end. Not to mention that 35% of those who received the vaccine had at least temporary myocardia and at least 3% had permanent to deadly heart damage.

People that would roll over like this are no better than the Jews sent to concentration camps and meekly walking into the death chambers - there were MILLIONS of Jews and hundreds of death camp guards.

But THAT lesson was learned and Hamas is DEAD and you can count on that.

So perhaps for people like Frank is talking about, text book lessons are better than nothing at all. With brains like that, they certainly couldn't teach themselves.

On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:38:24 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:25:39 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 13:06:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > >On 10/30/2023 11:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> On 10/30/2023 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>> On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > >>>> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was
> > >>>>> killed while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to
> > >>>>> quickly make a right turn out of a parking lot.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in
> > >>>> a private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of
> > >>>> riding on sidewalks, especially contra-flow.
> > >>>
> > >>> That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
> > >>> learning anything about riding a bicycle.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Everyone is in favor of intellectual rigor, inquiry and education.
> > >
> > >You may have missed some posts here. John and the tricycle rider have
> > >gone on and on disparaging learning anything about riding a bike.
> > Utter nonsense. As for me, I do disparage bicycle classes, but not
> > learning.
> > >For
> > >example, John has described little kids riding, as evidence that there's
> > >nothing much to learn.
> > >
> > >> Many
> > >> question the institutions surrounding (smothering) actual education.
> > +1
> > >> Mr Mantel does not hold an advanced degree in bicycle riding and is not
> > >> accredited. And yet he knows something and was helpful outside of
> > >> formal institutions.
> > >
> > >Of course it's possible to have and impart correct information without
> > >formal credentials.
> > >
> > >But there often, or generally, is value in formal credentials. I
> > >described parents yelling at us volunteers during a bike safety
> > >presentation, saying they would NEVER let their kids ride the same
> > >direction as other traffic. A system of reasonable credentials would
> > >filter those people out.
> > >
> > >And that's just one bit of blatant misinformation that gets thrown
> > >around. Others that come to mind are that you don't need lights at night
> > >if you have reflectors; and that cyclists must always get out of the way
> > >so they don't slow down motorists; and that bicycling isn't safe unless
> > >it's done in a "protected bike lane" or other kiddie path.
> > >
> > >I can go much further, into braking techniques, emergency maneuvers,
> > >etc. To get teaching certification, a candidate has to demonstrate
> > >knowledge and/or skill regarding many things typical cyclists don't know.
> > BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.....
> >
> > There's no doubt in my mind that a 'bicycle riding instructor" would
> > simply get in my way.
> >
> > Anybody who would pay for that foolishment is as big a dupe as the
> > "instructors."
> Well, remember that everyone lined up for covid-19 shots and the mRNA vaccines are not generating spike proteins in ever organ of the body. This is slowly killing the immune system off of many people whose immune systems doesn't learn to kill the so vaccinated cells and is causing everything from premature dementia to cancers. We don't know where this will end. Not to mention that 35% of those who received the vaccine had at least temporary myocardia and at least 3% had permanent to deadly heart damage.
>
> People that would roll over like this are no better than the Jews sent to concentration camps and meekly walking into the death chambers - there were MILLIONS of Jews and hundreds of death camp guards.
>
> But THAT lesson was learned and Hamas is DEAD and you can count on that.
>
> So perhaps for people like Frank is talking about, text book lessons are better than nothing at all. With brains like that, they certainly couldn't teach themselves.

Correction: are NOW generating spike proteins in every organ in your body

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:38:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:25:39?AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 13:06:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 10/30/2023 11:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> On 10/30/2023 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>> On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> >>>> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was
>> >>>>> killed while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to
>> >>>>> quickly make a right turn out of a parking lot.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in
>> >>>> a private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of
>> >>>> riding on sidewalks, especially contra-flow.
>> >>>
>> >>> That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
>> >>> learning anything about riding a bicycle.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Everyone is in favor of intellectual rigor, inquiry and education.
>> >
>> >You may have missed some posts here. John and the tricycle rider have
>> >gone on and on disparaging learning anything about riding a bike.
>> Utter nonsense. As for me, I do disparage bicycle classes, but not
>> learning.
>> >For
>> >example, John has described little kids riding, as evidence that there's
>> >nothing much to learn.
>> >
>> >> Many
>> >> question the institutions surrounding (smothering) actual education.
>> +1
>> >> Mr Mantel does not hold an advanced degree in bicycle riding and is not
>> >> accredited. And yet he knows something and was helpful outside of
>> >> formal institutions.
>> >
>> >Of course it's possible to have and impart correct information without
>> >formal credentials.
>> >
>> >But there often, or generally, is value in formal credentials. I
>> >described parents yelling at us volunteers during a bike safety
>> >presentation, saying they would NEVER let their kids ride the same
>> >direction as other traffic. A system of reasonable credentials would
>> >filter those people out.
>> >
>> >And that's just one bit of blatant misinformation that gets thrown
>> >around. Others that come to mind are that you don't need lights at night
>> >if you have reflectors; and that cyclists must always get out of the way
>> >so they don't slow down motorists; and that bicycling isn't safe unless
>> >it's done in a "protected bike lane" or other kiddie path.
>> >
>> >I can go much further, into braking techniques, emergency maneuvers,
>> >etc. To get teaching certification, a candidate has to demonstrate
>> >knowledge and/or skill regarding many things typical cyclists don't know.
>> BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.....
>>
>> There's no doubt in my mind that a 'bicycle riding instructor" would
>> simply get in my way.
>>
>> Anybody who would pay for that foolishment is as big a dupe as the
>> "instructors."
>Well, remember that everyone lined up for covid-19 shots and the mRNA vaccines are not generating spike proteins in ever organ of the body. This is slowly killing the immune system off of many people whose immune systems doesn't learn to kill the so vaccinated cells and is causing everything from premature dementia to cancers. We don't know where this will end. Not to mention that 35% of those who received the vaccine had at least temporary myocardia and at least 3% had permanent to deadly heart damage.
>
>People that would roll over like this are no better than the Jews sent to concentration camps and meekly walking into the death chambers - there were MILLIONS of Jews and hundreds of death camp guards.
>
>But THAT lesson was learned and Hamas is DEAD and you can count on that.
>
>So perhaps for people like Frank is talking about, text book lessons are better than nothing at all. With brains like that, they certainly couldn't teach themselves.

I'm a big believer in textbooks, but not the instructors and the
classes. The vast majority of "instructors" I've had since about the
third grade, have hindered my learning progress.

On 10/30/2023 1:38 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:25:45 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:04:55?AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:15:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was killed
>>>>>> while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly
>>>>>> make a right turn out of a parking lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in a
>>>>> private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of riding on
>>>>> sidewalks, especially contra-flow.
>>>>
>>>> That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
>>>> learning anything about riding a bicycle.
>>> I don't know anyone who mocks learning about riding a bicycle. Back
>>> when I did it, I think it was about 1947/1948, it was a delightful
>>> experience. I was all alone in the young stock pasture, but I think
>>> there were some heifers watching me.
>>
>> And the heifers were probably more knowledgeable about riding properly than Krygowski.
>
> I do occasionally see heifers out riding on their bicycles, mostly on
> electric bicycles.

https://www.bloglovin.com/blogs/garnerstyle-1223295/7-things-you-need-to-know-about-riding-bikes-4847959594
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:46:14 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:38:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:25:39?AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 13:06:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 10/30/2023 11:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> On 10/30/2023 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >>> On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >> >>>> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was
> >> >>>>> killed while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to
> >> >>>>> quickly make a right turn out of a parking lot.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in
> >> >>>> a private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of
> >> >>>> riding on sidewalks, especially contra-flow.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
> >> >>> learning anything about riding a bicycle.
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> Everyone is in favor of intellectual rigor, inquiry and education.
> >> >
> >> >You may have missed some posts here. John and the tricycle rider have
> >> >gone on and on disparaging learning anything about riding a bike.
> >> Utter nonsense. As for me, I do disparage bicycle classes, but not
> >> learning.
> >> >For
> >> >example, John has described little kids riding, as evidence that there's
> >> >nothing much to learn.
> >> >
> >> >> Many
> >> >> question the institutions surrounding (smothering) actual education..
> >> +1
> >> >> Mr Mantel does not hold an advanced degree in bicycle riding and is not
> >> >> accredited. And yet he knows something and was helpful outside of
> >> >> formal institutions.
> >> >
> >> >Of course it's possible to have and impart correct information without
> >> >formal credentials.
> >> >
> >> >But there often, or generally, is value in formal credentials. I
> >> >described parents yelling at us volunteers during a bike safety
> >> >presentation, saying they would NEVER let their kids ride the same
> >> >direction as other traffic. A system of reasonable credentials would
> >> >filter those people out.
> >> >
> >> >And that's just one bit of blatant misinformation that gets thrown
> >> >around. Others that come to mind are that you don't need lights at night
> >> >if you have reflectors; and that cyclists must always get out of the way
> >> >so they don't slow down motorists; and that bicycling isn't safe unless
> >> >it's done in a "protected bike lane" or other kiddie path.
> >> >
> >> >I can go much further, into braking techniques, emergency maneuvers,
> >> >etc. To get teaching certification, a candidate has to demonstrate
> >> >knowledge and/or skill regarding many things typical cyclists don't know.
> >> BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.....
> >>
> >> There's no doubt in my mind that a 'bicycle riding instructor" would
> >> simply get in my way.
> >>
> >> Anybody who would pay for that foolishment is as big a dupe as the
> >> "instructors."
> >Well, remember that everyone lined up for covid-19 shots and the mRNA vaccines are not generating spike proteins in ever organ of the body. This is slowly killing the immune system off of many people whose immune systems doesn't learn to kill the so vaccinated cells and is causing everything from premature dementia to cancers. We don't know where this will end. Not to mention that 35% of those who received the vaccine had at least temporary myocardia and at least 3% had permanent to deadly heart damage.
> >
> >People that would roll over like this are no better than the Jews sent to concentration camps and meekly walking into the death chambers - there were MILLIONS of Jews and hundreds of death camp guards.
> >
> >But THAT lesson was learned and Hamas is DEAD and you can count on that.
> >
> >So perhaps for people like Frank is talking about, text book lessons are better than nothing at all. With brains like that, they certainly couldn't teach themselves.
> I'm a big believer in textbooks, but not the instructors and the
> classes. The vast majority of "instructors" I've had since about the
> third grade, have hindered my learning progress.

I have had some outstanding public school teachers (mostly shop classes) but in general they seem to all be marking time until retirement like Krygowski. His claim that he has had students return and thank him for teaching them, is so hollow that that certainly became clear as pure air.

The AIR FORCE teachers on the other hand were ALL business. I built my entire career on 3 months of electronics fundamentals. And here I am now with almost 2 million. Try that with Frank as a teacher. On the other hand, I had a very high IQ and it appears to me that Flunky had a Krygowski-like education - enough to make a living off of but not enough to excel at. So I guess we shouldn't be too hard on Frank. He has an entirely different view of the world than we do.

On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:48:59 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/30/2023 1:38 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:25:45 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:04:55?AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:15:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >>>>> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was killed
> >>>>>> while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to quickly
> >>>>>> make a right turn out of a parking lot.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in a
> >>>>> private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of riding on
> >>>>> sidewalks, especially contra-flow.
> >>>>
> >>>> That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
> >>>> learning anything about riding a bicycle.
> >>> I don't know anyone who mocks learning about riding a bicycle. Back
> >>> when I did it, I think it was about 1947/1948, it was a delightful
> >>> experience. I was all alone in the young stock pasture, but I think
> >>> there were some heifers watching me.
> >>
> >> And the heifers were probably more knowledgeable about riding properly than Krygowski.
> >
> > I do occasionally see heifers out riding on their bicycles, mostly on
> > electric bicycles.
> https://www.bloglovin.com/blogs/garnerstyle-1223295/7-things-you-need-to-know-about-riding-bikes-4847959594
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My wife was always a good rider. She and the three girls rode coast to coast twice taking turns driving the station wagon with the camping gear. She has since fallen and broken her foot and it was badly repaired. But when she came out for a ride with the large group she could still drop everyone (though she couldn't walk properly for a week after.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:56:56 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:46:14?AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:38:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:25:39?AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 13:06:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 10/30/2023 11:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> On 10/30/2023 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> >>> On 10/30/2023 5:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> >> >>>> Am 28.10.2023 um 18:58 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> ... And about a quarter mile away, one of their classmates was
>> >> >>>>> killed while riding "contraflow" on a sidewalk, by a woman trying to
>> >> >>>>> quickly make a right turn out of a parking lot.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> This is why as a parent, I gave a presentation to my son's class (in
>> >> >>>> a private primary school) highlighting the unexpected dangers of
>> >> >>>> riding on sidewalks, especially contra-flow.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> That's a good rebuttal for those on this forum who mock actually
>> >> >>> learning anything about riding a bicycle.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Everyone is in favor of intellectual rigor, inquiry and education.
>> >> >
>> >> >You may have missed some posts here. John and the tricycle rider have
>> >> >gone on and on disparaging learning anything about riding a bike.
>> >> Utter nonsense. As for me, I do disparage bicycle classes, but not
>> >> learning.
>> >> >For
>> >> >example, John has described little kids riding, as evidence that there's
>> >> >nothing much to learn.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Many
>> >> >> question the institutions surrounding (smothering) actual education.
>> >> +1
>> >> >> Mr Mantel does not hold an advanced degree in bicycle riding and is not
>> >> >> accredited. And yet he knows something and was helpful outside of
>> >> >> formal institutions.
>> >> >
>> >> >Of course it's possible to have and impart correct information without
>> >> >formal credentials.
>> >> >
>> >> >But there often, or generally, is value in formal credentials. I
>> >> >described parents yelling at us volunteers during a bike safety
>> >> >presentation, saying they would NEVER let their kids ride the same
>> >> >direction as other traffic. A system of reasonable credentials would
>> >> >filter those people out.
>> >> >
>> >> >And that's just one bit of blatant misinformation that gets thrown
>> >> >around. Others that come to mind are that you don't need lights at night
>> >> >if you have reflectors; and that cyclists must always get out of the way
>> >> >so they don't slow down motorists; and that bicycling isn't safe unless
>> >> >it's done in a "protected bike lane" or other kiddie path.
>> >> >
>> >> >I can go much further, into braking techniques, emergency maneuvers,
>> >> >etc. To get teaching certification, a candidate has to demonstrate
>> >> >knowledge and/or skill regarding many things typical cyclists don't know.
>> >> BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.....
>> >>
>> >> There's no doubt in my mind that a 'bicycle riding instructor" would
>> >> simply get in my way.
>> >>
>> >> Anybody who would pay for that foolishment is as big a dupe as the
>> >> "instructors."
>> >Well, remember that everyone lined up for covid-19 shots and the mRNA vaccines are not generating spike proteins in ever organ of the body. This is slowly killing the immune system off of many people whose immune systems doesn't learn to kill the so vaccinated cells and is causing everything from premature dementia to cancers. We don't know where this will end. Not to mention that 35% of those who received the vaccine had at least temporary myocardia and at least 3% had permanent to deadly heart damage.
>> >
>> >People that would roll over like this are no better than the Jews sent to concentration camps and meekly walking into the death chambers - there were MILLIONS of Jews and hundreds of death camp guards.
>> >
>> >But THAT lesson was learned and Hamas is DEAD and you can count on that.
>> >
>> >So perhaps for people like Frank is talking about, text book lessons are better than nothing at all. With brains like that, they certainly couldn't teach themselves.
>> I'm a big believer in textbooks, but not the instructors and the
>> classes. The vast majority of "instructors" I've had since about the
>> third grade, have hindered my learning progress.
>
>I have had some outstanding public school teachers (mostly shop classes) but in general they seem to all be marking time until retirement like Krygowski. His claim that he has had students return and thank him for teaching them, is so hollow that that certainly became clear as pure air.
>
>The AIR FORCE teachers on the other hand were ALL business. I built my entire career on 3 months of electronics fundamentals. And here I am now with almost 2 million. Try that with Frank as a teacher. On the other hand, I had a very high IQ and it appears to me that Flunky had a Krygowski-like education - enough to make a living off of but not enough to excel at. So I guess we shouldn't be too hard on Frank. He has an entirely different view of the world than we do.

Gee Tommy, and it was just a few days ago they you were bragging that
your investments had finally reached 1 million and now, hardly a month
later they are almost 2 million. That's a growth of about 2,000 times
a year.

With investments like that I can't imagine why you ever bothered to
work.

--
Cheers,

John B.