On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 11:45:46 +0100, Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk>
a gribouillé dans la poussière...

>On 17/06/2023 19:14, Penny wrote:
>> I'm sure I'm not alone in using deliberate family malapropisms or
>> mispronunciations.
>
>YA*N*OU! One of my personal favourite usages is "furshance" - my son's
>version of "furniture" 40-odd years ago. From the same source,
>"windowsilf" and "wardrove" probably need no translation!

One of mine said wardrove, which we liked and used within the household for
a while. Her sister, when told she'd been using the wrong word 'free' for
'three', immediately applied this knowledge to all words which started with
an F or TH sound, and talked about her thingers and fumbs.

Listening to small children apply rules they have picked up in the language
(and got a bit wrong) is a very happy pastime :)
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 09:52:14 +0100, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> a
gribouillé dans la poussière...

>What often annoys me with audiobooks is poor pronunciation,

Nearly finished the book now, and the word eye-ree just jumped out at me.
This is how I miss bits of plot while figuring out what was meant - at
least I can back-up and listen again. She meant eyrie, which apparently
USians spell 'aerie'.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On 18/06/2023 15:55, Penny wrote:
> One of mine said wardrove, which we liked and used within the household for
> a while. Her sister, when told she'd been using the wrong word 'free' for
> 'three', immediately applied this knowledge to all words which started with
> an F or TH sound, and talked about her thingers and fumbs.
>
> Listening to small children apply rules they have picked up in the language
> (and got a bit wrong) is a very happy pastime 😄

Indeed! I was brought up to (and still do) pronounce many words -
castle, last, etc - with a long, rather than a short, "a" sound. It
always amused me that my very young daughter loved the stories of, as
she called them "Aunt and Bee."
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 18/06/2023 15:55, Penny wrote:
>> One of mine said wardrove, which we liked and used within the household for
>> a while. Her sister, when told she'd been using the wrong word 'free' for
>> 'three', immediately applied this knowledge to all words which started with
>> an F or TH sound, and talked about her thingers and fumbs.
>>
>> Listening to small children apply rules they have picked up in the language
>> (and got a bit wrong) is a very happy pastime 😄
>
> Indeed! I was brought up to (and still do) pronounce many words -
> castle, last, etc - with a long, rather than a short, "a" sound. It
> always amused me that my very young daughter loved the stories of, as
> she called them "Aunt and Bee."

Yup, Bath, Last, Cast, Staff, even Laugh, all have a looong A for me.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:35:07 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>In message <kf85iqFe00U1@mid.individual.net> at Sun, 18 Jun 2023
>11:45:46, Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> writes
>>On 17/06/2023 19:14, Penny wrote:
>>> I'm sure I'm not alone in using deliberate family malapropisms or
>>> mispronunciations.
>>
>>YA*N*OU! One of my personal favourite usages is "furshance" - my son's
>>version of "furniture" 40-odd years ago. From the same source,
>>"windowsilf" and "wardrove" probably need no translation!
>>
>That's slightly different type - a childhood mispronunciation, that the
>family keep using, often to the irritation of the child who originated
>it, though hopefully they smile eventually. The most famous such example
>is probably "Lillibet", allegedly how the young princess said her own
>name. (Which, as a genealogist, I'm surprised how little it has changed
>over the last two or three centuries, for such a long word/name; sure,
>there are pet variations like Betty, but the full name retains its
>spelling for quite a long way back; even the s-for-z variation is rare.)
>
>There's another variant in such family words: the _useful_ one. My blind
>friends use "clobbled", for generally mixed up, put out of sorts -
>"that's got clobbled", "that's clobbled the ..." - which I _think_ was
>something she said when a child (I've certainly not come across it
>anywhere else), but the three of us use it.
>
>Then there are family initialisms - I think I've mentioned our two
>before - poohm for inebriated, and nacits for nice weather.

Capt Ex once brought the children Chinese style pyjamas from what #1
daughter called Kong Kong. I liked that.

On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 16:04:27 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> a gribouillé dans la poussière...

>Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 18/06/2023 15:55, Penny wrote:
>>> One of mine said wardrove, which we liked and used within the household for
>>> a while. Her sister, when told she'd been using the wrong word 'free' for
>>> 'three', immediately applied this knowledge to all words which started with
>>> an F or TH sound, and talked about her thingers and fumbs.
>>>
>>> Listening to small children apply rules they have picked up in the language
>>> (and got a bit wrong) is a very happy pastime ?
>>
>> I was brought up to (and still do) pronounce many words -
>> castle, last, etc - with a long, rather than a short, "a" sound. It
>> always amused me that my very young daughter loved the stories of, as
>> she called them "Aunt and Bee."
>
>Yup, Bath, Last, Cast, Staff, even Laugh, all have a looong A for me.

I think Ned Sherrin was the only person I ever heard say Glaarstonbury, is
that the normal Somerset pronunciation, Mike?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 16:04:27 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> a gribouillé dans la poussière...
>
>> Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 18/06/2023 15:55, Penny wrote:
>>>> One of mine said wardrove, which we liked and used within the household for
>>>> a while. Her sister, when told she'd been using the wrong word 'free' for
>>>> 'three', immediately applied this knowledge to all words which started with
>>>> an F or TH sound, and talked about her thingers and fumbs.
>>>>
>>>> Listening to small children apply rules they have picked up in the language
>>>> (and got a bit wrong) is a very happy pastime ?
>>>
>>> I was brought up to (and still do) pronounce many words -
>>> castle, last, etc - with a long, rather than a short, "a" sound. It
>>> always amused me that my very young daughter loved the stories of, as
>>> she called them "Aunt and Bee."
>>
>> Yup, Bath, Last, Cast, Staff, even Laugh, all have a looong A for me.
>
> I think Ned Sherrin was the only person I ever heard say Glaarstonbury, is
> that the normal Somerset pronunciation, Mike?

Well, to me it is Glastonbury - Glass-ton-bury and the ‘a’ is somewhere
between the soft ‘A’ in glass and the harder ‘A’ in Mass; a bit like the
‘A’ in Pass.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 17:35:10 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> a gribouillé dans la poussière...

>Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
>> I think Ned Sherrin was the only person I ever heard say Glaarstonbury, is
>> that the normal Somerset pronunciation, Mike?
>
>Well, to me it is Glastonbury - Glass-ton-bury

Same as the rest of the south say 'glass' then. Except just about everyone
now uses the short A for Glastonbury - I blame the radio stations, both
pirate and legit..

>and the ‘a’ is somewhere
>between the soft ‘A’ in glass and the harder ‘A’ in Mass; a bit like the
>‘A’ in Pass.

Clear as a muddy rhyne...

I don't understand your soft and hard A, especially if Glass and Pass don't
sound the same.

For me, the A sounds are:
Glass and pass - long
Mass - short
A as in hay, or as the U in fun

--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 8:18:22 AM UTC, Chris wrote:

> >
> Reading Abbey is obviously sticking to the word used pre dissolution of
> monasteries.

I can't help reading Reading as reading instead of Reading.

Nick

On 17/06/2023 19:14, Penny wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 10:39:19 +0100, Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk>
> a gribouillé dans la poussière...
>
>>> And while I'm thinking about church architecture, how do you say ...
>>> 'misericord'?
>>
>> As you ask how I say them, not how they should be pronounced, I will say
>> to me the latter is miz-Ericord
>
> Miz Eric Ord?
> An unusual name for a woman ;)
>
> I'm sure I'm not alone in using deliberate family malapropisms or
> mispronunciations. In other company it's fine if one follows up with "as my
> family call it/them", otherwise someone may 'help' by giving you the
> correct word/pronunciation - awkward :|
>
> In my case, having heard all my bothers refer to anti-queue shops, I didn't
> get as far as I might have done in an early primary school reading- level
> test :(

Not exactly a _family_ saying, but my sister always called wellington
boots "Wellygogs".
That lead to her very serious, very polite boyfriend[1] (at that time -
later, Dear Reader, she married him) to ask for "Wellygogs" in a shoe shop.

There were a few other 'incidents' like this.

[1] English was not his first language.

On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 16:09:54 +0100, Penny wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 09:52:14 +0100, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> a
> gribouillé dans la poussière...
>
>>What often annoys me with audiobooks is poor pronunciation,
>
> Nearly finished the book now, and the word eye-ree just jumped out at me.
> This is how I miss bits of plot while figuring out what was meant

How do you get on with radio documentaries intermittently interlarded with
unexplained music-type background? And that often has even more added
distraction factors of its own, such as slow fades in volume, or wondering
what it was meant to communicate.

On 18/06/2023 17:04, Mike McMillan wrote:
> Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 18/06/2023 15:55, Penny wrote:
>>> One of mine said wardrove, which we liked and used within the household for
>>> a while. Her sister, when told she'd been using the wrong word 'free' for
>>> 'three', immediately applied this knowledge to all words which started with
>>> an F or TH sound, and talked about her thingers and fumbs.
>>>
>>> Listening to small children apply rules they have picked up in the language
>>> (and got a bit wrong) is a very happy pastime 😄
>>
>> Indeed! I was brought up to (and still do) pronounce many words -
>> castle, last, etc - with a long, rather than a short, "a" sound. It
>> always amused me that my very young daughter loved the stories of, as
>> she called them "Aunt and Bee."
>
> Yup, Bath, Last, Cast, Staff, even Laugh, all have a looong A for me.
>

For me, "bath" is a bit of a variable feast.
Either a long A or a short A might be employed without any deliberation
as to which will be used.
S'wot comes from moving around the country.

On 18/06/2023 19:33, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 8:18:22 AM UTC, Chris wrote:
>
>>>
>> Reading Abbey is obviously sticking to the word used pre dissolution of
>> monasteries.
>
> I can't help reading Reading as reading instead of Reading.

I confess I wasn't ready to read what you wrote about Reading and reading.
Does that make me Sam the unready?

On 18/06/2023 16:09, Penny wrote:
> Nearly finished the book now, and the word eye-ree just jumped out at me.
> This is how I miss bits of plot while figuring out what was meant - at
> least I can back-up and listen again. She meant eyrie, which apparently
> USians spell 'aerie'.

You're not reading a Veronica Black book are you, Penny? It was in one
of her books that I heard the word "clerestory" mispronounced - as I
thought And I know in one of her stories (thought it may or may not
have been the same one) there was action set in Scotland where she might
well have mentioned an "eyrie".
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 20:32:28 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> On 18/06/2023 17:04, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 18/06/2023 15:55, Penny wrote:
>>>> One of mine said wardrove, which we liked and used within the household for
>>>> a while. Her sister, when told she'd been using the wrong word 'free' for
>>>> 'three', immediately applied this knowledge to all words which started with
>>>> an F or TH sound, and talked about her thingers and fumbs.
>>>>
>>>> Listening to small children apply rules they have picked up in the language
>>>> (and got a bit wrong) is a very happy pastime 😄
>>>
>>> Indeed! I was brought up to (and still do) pronounce many words -
>>> castle, last, etc - with a long, rather than a short, "a" sound. It
>>> always amused me that my very young daughter loved the stories of, as
>>> she called them "Aunt and Bee."
>>
>> Yup, Bath, Last, Cast, Staff, even Laugh, all have a looong A for me.
>>
>
> For me, "bath" is a bit of a variable feast.
> Either a long A or a short A might be employed without any deliberation
> as to which will be used.
> S'wot comes from moving around the country.

But what happens to the bun?

On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 19:32:19 -0000 (UTC), Iain Archer
<ianews@montaigne.me.uk> wrote:

>On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 16:09:54 +0100, Penny wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 09:52:14 +0100, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> a
>> gribouillé dans la poussière...
>>
>>>What often annoys me with audiobooks is poor pronunciation,
>>
>> Nearly finished the book now, and the word eye-ree just jumped out at me.
>> This is how I miss bits of plot while figuring out what was meant
>
>How do you get on with radio documentaries intermittently interlarded with
>unexplained music-type background? And that often has even more added
>distraction factors of its own, such as slow fades in volume, or wondering
>what it was meant to communicate.

Background music is really annoying as it interferes with me hearing
the spoken words

On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 6:45:48 AM UTC-4, Jenny M Benson wrote:
> On 17/06/2023 19:14, Penny wrote:
> > I'm sure I'm not alone in using deliberate family malapropisms or
> > mispronunciations.
> YA*N*OU! One of my personal favourite usages is "furshance" - my son's
> version of "furniture" 40-odd years ago. From the same source,
> "windowsilf" and "wardrove" probably need no translation!

One of mine used to say "pertifically", which I think was a weird portmaneau of "particularly" and "specifically", and I found it utterly adorable. He doesn't say it anymore, and I'm secretly quite sad about that.

In message <u6n9ub$1mp15$1@dont-email.me> at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 16:04:27,
Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes
>Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
[]
>> Indeed! I was brought up to (and still do) pronounce many words -
>> castle, last, etc - with a long, rather than a short, "a" sound. It
>> always amused me that my very young daughter loved the stories of, as
>> she called them "Aunt and Bee."
>
>Yup, Bath, Last, Cast, Staff, even Laugh, all have a looong A for me.
>
I use it as a very rough rule of thumb to what determines whether I
think of someone as being from the north or the south: if they say bath,
path, etc. as if they had an r in them (like cart rather than cat), I
think of them as from the south. (I tease them when they refer to the
capital of Geordieland as Newcarstle: I tell them there's no such place,
unless they mean one of the other ones.)

Yes, I know there's an element of class (or "clarss") about which
pronunciation is used, as well as east/west as well as north/south.

Another way I tell is how many syllables they use for both flour and
flower (meaning a bloom, not a river); if only one, they're southern.
(Where towns and cities often have a female horse in charge.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

That's the key to wisdom: being delighted when you're wrong because
you've learn something. - (Professor) Brian Cox, RT 2019/5/25-31

In message <761cf7b6-eb2a-436d-875e-8dbe56638a24n@googlegroups.com> at
Sun, 18 Jun 2023 11:33:57, Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> writes
>On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 8:18:220 >
>> >
>> Reading Abbey is obviously sticking to the word used pre dissolution of
>> monasteries.
>
>I can't help reading Reading as reading instead of Reading.
>
>Nick

YANA in often perceiving the wrong one.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"If even one person" arguments allow the perfect to become the enemy of the
good, and thus they tend to cause more harm than good.
- Jimmy Akins quoted by Scott Adams, 2015-5-5

In message <to6u8itf6v165mkca11ik2evloeu83g6jo@4ax.com> at Sun, 18 Jun
2023 16:09:54, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes
>On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 09:52:14 +0100, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> a
>gribouillé dans la poussière...
>
>>What often annoys me with audiobooks is poor pronunciation,
>
>Nearly finished the book now, and the word eye-ree just jumped out at me.
>This is how I miss bits of plot while figuring out what was meant - at
>least I can back-up and listen again. She meant eyrie, which apparently
>USians spell 'aerie'.

As you say, at least you can back-up. I find my - OK, this is UMRA, so I
can I hope say "better" without being jumped on -
grammar/vocabulary/whatever is a _dis_advantage when listening to e. g.
news reports: if someone says something wrong, my mind goes into "how
would I show them that that was wrong" mode, and by the time I've
stopped myself doing so, I've missed several more words of what they
were saying.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"If even one person" arguments allow the perfect to become the enemy of the
good, and thus they tend to cause more harm than good.
- Jimmy Akins quoted by Scott Adams, 2015-5-5

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

>In message <u6n9ub$1mp15$1@dont-email.me> at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 16:04:27,
>Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes

>>Yup, Bath, Last, Cast, Staff, even Laugh, all have a looong A for me.
>>
>I use it as a very rough rule of thumb to what determines whether I
>think of someone as being from the north or the south: if they say bath,
>path, etc. as if they had an r in them (like cart rather than cat), I
>think of them as from the south.

As I believe I have remarked before, there is a really curious
instance of the long "a" in Yorkshire, actually AFAICT the
Holmfirth-Huddersfield area. I first noticed it as a lad when
work was being done on the house. The otherwise broad Yorkshire
speaking builders always spoke of "plaster" with a long "a". I
now believe it to be a local peculiarity.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

In message <9k309i5i1sbbakkbkqh9b6lp0rclcd4ahs@4ax.com> at Mon, 19 Jun
2023 09:17:23, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
>J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
>>In message <u6n9ub$1mp15$1@dont-email.me> at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 16:04:27,
>>Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes
>
>>>Yup, Bath, Last, Cast, Staff, even Laugh, all have a looong A for me.
>>>
>>I use it as a very rough rule of thumb to what determines whether I
>>think of someone as being from the north or the south: if they say bath,
>>path, etc. as if they had an r in them (like cart rather than cat), I
>>think of them as from the south.
>
>As I believe I have remarked before, there is a really curious
>instance of the long "a" in Yorkshire, actually AFAICT the
>Holmfirth-Huddersfield area. I first noticed it as a lad when
>work was being done on the house. The otherwise broad Yorkshire
>speaking builders always spoke of "plaster" with a long "a". I
>now believe it to be a local peculiarity.
>
>Chris

There are some exceptions to the rule - some for all short-a speakers,
some specific to an area. I think we all say a long a for "father"
(apart from those who say fethor!), for example. (Most of us only say it
anyway when being formal: normally we'd say dad! [Or in some cases Da!])
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The thing about smut is it harms no one and it's rarely cruel. Besides, it's a
gleeful rejection of the dreary and the "correct".
- Alison Graham, RT 2014/10/25-31

On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 7:24:49 PM UTC, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 17/06/2023 19:14, Penny wrote:
> > On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 10:39:19 +0100, Jenny M Benson <Nemo...@hotmail.co.uk>
> > a gribouillé dans la poussière...
> >
> >>> And while I'm thinking about church architecture, how do you say ...
> >>> 'misericord'?
> >>
> >> As you ask how I say them, not how they should be pronounced, I will say
> >> to me the latter is miz-Ericord
> >
> > Miz Eric Ord?
> > An unusual name for a woman ;)
> >
> > I'm sure I'm not alone in using deliberate family malapropisms or
> > mispronunciations. In other company it's fine if one follows up with "as my
> > family call it/them", otherwise someone may 'help' by giving you the
> > correct word/pronunciation - awkward :|
> >
> > In my case, having heard all my bothers refer to anti-queue shops, I didn't
> > get as far as I might have done in an early primary school reading- level
> > test :(
> Not exactly a _family_ saying, but my sister always called wellington
> boots "Wellygogs".
> That lead to her very serious, very polite boyfriend[1] (at that time -
> later, Dear Reader, she married him) to ask for "Wellygogs" in a shoe shop.
>
> There were a few other 'incidents' like this.
>
> [1] English was not his first language.

Liliana has added a few, rather nice, variations to the English language: one that I have enthusiastically adopted is "organisise" which I think sounds much nicer than the original.

Nick
nickodell49@yahoo.ca

On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 2:48:00 AM UTC, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <761cf7b6-eb2a-436d...@googlegroups.com> at
> Sun, 18 Jun 2023 11:33:57, Nick Odell <nick...@bigfoot.com> writes
> >On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 8:18:220 >
> >> >
> >> Reading Abbey is obviously sticking to the word used pre dissolution of
> >> monasteries.
> >
> >I can't help reading Reading as reading instead of Reading.
> >
> >Nick
> YANA in often perceiving the wrong one.

Given that the city's railway connections, even the old cliche "Reading between the lines" could be subject to misinterpretation.

Nick
nickodell49@yahoo.ca

On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 19:32:19 -0000 (UTC), Iain Archer
<ianews@montaigne.me.uk> a gribouillé dans la poussière...

>On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 16:09:54 +0100, Penny wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 09:52:14 +0100, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> a
>> gribouillé dans la poussière...
>>
>>>What often annoys me with audiobooks is poor pronunciation,
>>
>> Nearly finished the book now, and the word eye-ree just jumped out at me.
>> This is how I miss bits of plot while figuring out what was meant
>
>How do you get on with radio documentaries intermittently interlarded with
>unexplained music-type background? And that often has even more added
>distraction factors of its own, such as slow fades in volume, or wondering
>what it was meant to communicate.

I absolutely hate it. It has often been a subject of complaint on Fedup yet
still creeps in from time to time on Radio 4, possibly in repeats (could
they have edited out the music track?). It's my believe that the fading in
and out was a filler because the content was too short for slot. Or maybe
they were designed for television when pictures of the subject would have
been shown while the narrator had a break?

D#1 was in a video for her work website a couple of years back, talking
about a project she is involved in, aimed at what we used to call 6th
formers. Irrelevant music was happening in the background, which was
distracting and detracting from the message, to my mind. When I complained
about it she said she had no control over that aspect, but didn't tell me
what she thought of it herself.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959