On 24/07/2023 09:12, jon wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 16:23:16 +0100, Colin Bignell wrote:
>
>> On 23/07/2023 15:52, jon wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 14:08:57 +0100, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to
>>>>>>>> Disraeli:
>>>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-
>>> city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular sector
>>>>>> of the population is over-represented compared to the general
>>>>>> population. For that you need to include the drivers of crime, such
>>>>>> as poverty, inequality and high unemployment, in the figures and see
>>>>>> how that sector is represented among that part of the population
>>>>>> affected by those. Statistics that don't include those can and
>>>>>> probably do lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from the
>>>>> likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it down to
>>>>> culture?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free school
>>>>> dinners as a child there would be many studies commissioned to show
>>>>> the correlation of the two without an ethnic bias. But there aren't,
>>>>> simply because it's an established fact that is criminality is
>>>>> cultural.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime. Culture is
>>>> only proven to affect the types of crime they commit. East Europeans
>>>> and Chinese are the most likely to be involved in people trafficking.
>>>> White males are by far the most likely to be involved in sexual
>>>> grooming, but Asian males are more likely to do so as a group
>>>> activity. The prevalence of black males being convicted of street
>>>> crime is thought to be dues to racial bias in the police (blacks are
>>>> more than three times as likely to be stopped and arrested than
>>>> whites, although the conviction rate for whites is higher), more of
>>>> them living in areas of poverty and under-achievement of black pupils
>>>> in schools, compared to whites in the same schools.
>>>>
>>>> I have several distant cousins in Australia, due to seven people in my
>>>> family tree having been transported there. I have a direct ancestor
>>>> who died in Newgate Prison and several who served time at some point.
>>>> Does that make me culturally prone to criminality, or is it simply
>>>> that most of them were very poor?
>>>
>>> There is a stronger gang culture amongst no-hopers, with no resident
>>> fathers at home.
>>
>> That is entirely possible, whatever their ethnicity.
>
> That seems to be the dominant business model for negroes.

It varies with era as to who is living in those conditions. Prominent
past examples are the East End gangs, like the Firm, headed by the Kray
twins, the many gangs in Glasgow's Gorbals and, made famous by TV, the
Peaky Blinders.

--
Colin Bignell

On 24/07/2023 09:25, Fredxx wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 08:36, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 08:13, Fredxx wrote:
>>> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to
>>>>>>>> Disraeli:
>>>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular
>>>>>> sector of the population is over-represented compared to the
>>>>>> general population. For that you need to include the drivers of
>>>>>> crime, such as poverty, inequality and high unemployment, in the
>>>>>> figures and see how that sector is represented among that part of
>>>>>> the population affected by those. Statistics that don't include
>>>>>> those can and probably do lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from the
>>>>> likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it down
>>>>> to culture?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free
>>>>> school dinners as a child there would be many studies commissioned
>>>>> to show the correlation of the two without an ethnic bias. But
>>>>> there aren't, simply because it's an established fact that is
>>>>> criminality is cultural.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime. Culture
>>>> is only proven to affect the types of crime they commit.
>>>
>>> Is that an admission that it is predominantly ethnicity, aka culture,
>>> that determines the likelihood of criminality?
>>>
>>
>> It is, in fact, the exact opposite.
>
> So your saying the quantity of crime is independent on race, but agree
> for example, white collar crime is predominantly carried out by
> Caucasian and gun crime predominantly by blacks?
>

In response to a FOI request, the Metropolitan Police stated that there
is insufficient data to break down the incidence of gun crime by
ethnicity, even over a ten year period. If they can't say whether gun
crime is predominantly the preserve of one particular ethnic group, I am
not going to speculate.

--
Colin Bignell

On 24/07/2023 09:35, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 09:25, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 08:36, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 08:13, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to
>>>>>>>>> Disraeli:
>>>>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular
>>>>>>> sector of the population is over-represented compared to the
>>>>>>> general population. For that you need to include the drivers of
>>>>>>> crime, such as poverty, inequality and high unemployment, in the
>>>>>>> figures and see how that sector is represented among that part of
>>>>>>> the population affected by those. Statistics that don't include
>>>>>>> those can and probably do lie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from the
>>>>>> likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it down
>>>>>> to culture?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free
>>>>>> school dinners as a child there would be many studies commissioned
>>>>>> to show the correlation of the two without an ethnic bias. But
>>>>>> there aren't, simply because it's an established fact that is
>>>>>> criminality is cultural.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime. Culture
>>>>> is only proven to affect the types of crime they commit.
>>>>
>>>> Is that an admission that it is predominantly ethnicity, aka
>>>> culture, that determines the likelihood of criminality?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It is, in fact, the exact opposite.
>>
>> So your saying the quantity of crime is independent on race, but agree
>> for example, white collar crime is predominantly carried out by
>> Caucasian and gun crime predominantly by blacks?
>>
>
> In response to a FOI request, the Metropolitan Police stated that there
> is insufficient data to break down the incidence of gun crime by
> ethnicity, even over a ten year period. If they can't say whether gun
> crime is predominantly the preserve of one particular ethnic group, I am
> not going to speculate.

Is the Telegraph making this up?
"The data provide a breakdown of the ethnicity of the 18,091 men and
boys who police took action against for a range of violent and sexual
offences in London in 2009-10.

They show that among those proceeded against for street crimes, 54 per
cent were black; for robbery, 59 per cent; and for gun crimes, 67 per cent."

Perhaps, like yourself, the Metropolitan Police are fearful of making
any meaningful comment.

On 24/07/2023 11:18, Fredxx wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 09:35, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 09:25, Fredxx wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 08:36, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 08:13, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to
>>>>>>>>>> Disraeli:
>>>>>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>>>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular
>>>>>>>> sector of the population is over-represented compared to the
>>>>>>>> general population. For that you need to include the drivers of
>>>>>>>> crime, such as poverty, inequality and high unemployment, in the
>>>>>>>> figures and see how that sector is represented among that part
>>>>>>>> of the population affected by those. Statistics that don't
>>>>>>>> include those can and probably do lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from
>>>>>>> the likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it
>>>>>>> down to culture?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free
>>>>>>> school dinners as a child there would be many studies
>>>>>>> commissioned to show the correlation of the two without an ethnic
>>>>>>> bias. But there aren't, simply because it's an established fact
>>>>>>> that is criminality is cultural.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>>>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime.
>>>>>> Culture is only proven to affect the types of crime they commit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that an admission that it is predominantly ethnicity, aka
>>>>> culture, that determines the likelihood of criminality?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is, in fact, the exact opposite.
>>>
>>> So your saying the quantity of crime is independent on race, but
>>> agree for example, white collar crime is predominantly carried out by
>>> Caucasian and gun crime predominantly by blacks?
>>>
>>
>> In response to a FOI request, the Metropolitan Police stated that
>> there is insufficient data to break down the incidence of gun crime by
>> ethnicity, even over a ten year period. If they can't say whether gun
>> crime is predominantly the preserve of one particular ethnic group, I
>> am not going to speculate.
>
> Is the Telegraph making this up?

I have no idea.

>  "The data provide a breakdown of the ethnicity of the 18,091 men and
> boys who police took action against for a range of violent and sexual
> offences in London in 2009-10.
>
> They show that among those proceeded against for street crimes, 54 per
> cent were black; for robbery, 59 per cent; and for gun crimes, 67 per
> cent."
>
> Perhaps, like yourself, the Metropolitan Police are fearful of making
> any meaningful comment.

Gun and knife crime in the Met account for around 2% of violent crimes,
the majority of those are knife crime and ethnicity is not recorded in
all cases. Perhaps, unlike a journalist, the police recognise when the
sample space is too small to produce any meaningful data.

--
Colin Bignell

On 24/07/2023 08:13, Fredxx wrote:

> Is that an admission that it is predominantly ethnicity, aka culture,
> that determines the likelihood of criminality?

You are subscribing to the usual statistical fallacy. Repeat after me:
"Correlation does not imply causation."

If you not careful, you will say something indicative of your state of
mind, like "Sending more fire engines to a blaze causes it to be bigger".

On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to Disraeli:
>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
>>>>
>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>
>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular sector
>>> of the population is over-represented compared to the general
>>> population. For that you need to include the drivers of crime, such
>>> as poverty, inequality and high unemployment, in the figures and see
>>> how that sector is represented among that part of the population
>>> affected by those. Statistics that don't include those can and
>>> probably do lie.
>>
>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from the
>> likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it down to
>> culture?
>>
>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free school
>> dinners as a child there would be many studies commissioned to show
>> the correlation of the two without an ethnic bias. But there aren't,
>> simply because it's an established fact that is criminality is cultural.
>>
>
> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime. Culture is
> only proven to affect the types of crime they commit. East Europeans and
> Chinese are the most likely to be involved in people trafficking. White
> males are by far the most likely to be involved in sexual grooming, but
> Asian males are more likely to do so as a group activity. The prevalence
> of black males being convicted of street crime is thought to be dues to
> racial bias in the police (blacks are more than three times as likely to
> be stopped and arrested than whites, although the conviction rate for
> whites is higher), more of them living in areas of poverty and
> under-achievement of black pupils in schools, compared to whites in the
> same schools.

The majority of people who are 'poor and unemployed' do not resort to
crime, this is a myth perpetuated by sociologists. It is just that
certain cultures are more predisposed to crime.

>
> I have several distant cousins in Australia, due to seven people in my
> family tree having been transported there. I have a direct ancestor who
> died in Newgate Prison and several who served time at some point. Does
> that make me culturally prone to criminality, or is it simply that most
> of them were very poor?
>

On 24/07/2023 08:13, Fredxx wrote:
> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to
>>>>>> Disraeli:
>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
>>>>>
>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>
>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular sector
>>>> of the population is over-represented compared to the general
>>>> population. For that you need to include the drivers of crime, such
>>>> as poverty, inequality and high unemployment, in the figures and see
>>>> how that sector is represented among that part of the population
>>>> affected by those. Statistics that don't include those can and
>>>> probably do lie.
>>>
>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from the
>>> likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it down to
>>> culture?
>>>
>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free school
>>> dinners as a child there would be many studies commissioned to show
>>> the correlation of the two without an ethnic bias. But there aren't,
>>> simply because it's an established fact that is criminality is cultural.
>>>
>>
>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime. Culture is
>> only proven to affect the types of crime they commit.
>
> Is that an admission that it is predominantly ethnicity, aka culture,
> that determines the likelihood of criminality?
>
Indeed it is, but culture and ethnicity are not indissolubly linked.
Take South Africa. Crime is completely out of control in the black
population, but there are plenty of new black middle class people with
education and skills who abhor it.
The problem is that people from a predominately tribal and rural
culture, where order is kept by a family/tribal chief., simply do not
sit well in a modern situation where the Law is seen as remote and
irrelevant.

Ultimately that will change, as it did in this country during the
industrial revolution. At leasts until mass post war immigration happened.

--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard

On 24/07/2023 08:36, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 08:13, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to
>>>>>>> Disraeli:
>>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular
>>>>> sector of the population is over-represented compared to the
>>>>> general population. For that you need to include the drivers of
>>>>> crime, such as poverty, inequality and high unemployment, in the
>>>>> figures and see how that sector is represented among that part of
>>>>> the population affected by those. Statistics that don't include
>>>>> those can and probably do lie.
>>>>
>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from the
>>>> likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it down to
>>>> culture?
>>>>
>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free school
>>>> dinners as a child there would be many studies commissioned to show
>>>> the correlation of the two without an ethnic bias. But there aren't,
>>>> simply because it's an established fact that is criminality is
>>>> cultural.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime. Culture
>>> is only proven to affect the types of crime they commit.
>>
>> Is that an admission that it is predominantly ethnicity, aka culture,
>> that determines the likelihood of criminality?
>>
>
> It is, in fact, the exact opposite.
>
>
Not as you wrote it.

--
WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

On 24/07/2023 09:12, jon wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 16:23:16 +0100, Colin Bignell wrote:
>
>> On 23/07/2023 15:52, jon wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 14:08:57 +0100, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to
>>>>>>>> Disraeli:
>>>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-
>>> city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular sector
>>>>>> of the population is over-represented compared to the general
>>>>>> population. For that you need to include the drivers of crime, such
>>>>>> as poverty, inequality and high unemployment, in the figures and see
>>>>>> how that sector is represented among that part of the population
>>>>>> affected by those. Statistics that don't include those can and
>>>>>> probably do lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from the
>>>>> likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it down to
>>>>> culture?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free school
>>>>> dinners as a child there would be many studies commissioned to show
>>>>> the correlation of the two without an ethnic bias. But there aren't,
>>>>> simply because it's an established fact that is criminality is
>>>>> cultural.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime. Culture is
>>>> only proven to affect the types of crime they commit. East Europeans
>>>> and Chinese are the most likely to be involved in people trafficking.
>>>> White males are by far the most likely to be involved in sexual
>>>> grooming, but Asian males are more likely to do so as a group
>>>> activity. The prevalence of black males being convicted of street
>>>> crime is thought to be dues to racial bias in the police (blacks are
>>>> more than three times as likely to be stopped and arrested than
>>>> whites, although the conviction rate for whites is higher), more of
>>>> them living in areas of poverty and under-achievement of black pupils
>>>> in schools, compared to whites in the same schools.
>>>>
>>>> I have several distant cousins in Australia, due to seven people in my
>>>> family tree having been transported there. I have a direct ancestor
>>>> who died in Newgate Prison and several who served time at some point.
>>>> Does that make me culturally prone to criminality, or is it simply
>>>> that most of them were very poor?
>>>
>>> There is a stronger gang culture amongst no-hopers, with no resident
>>> fathers at home.
>>
>> That is entirely possible, whatever their ethnicity.
>
> That seems to be the dominant business model for negroes.

Its the same from *any* people who have come from a predominantly tribal
society. Pakistan, Africa, even to some extant Italy where the family is
everything in poorer parts.

Eventually people adapt to the civilisation they arrive in,unless it's
preaching 'diversity' when they feel they don't need to.

--
WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

On 24/07/2023 13:24, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>
> The majority of people who are 'poor and unemployed' do not resort to
> crime, this is a myth perpetuated by sociologists. It is just that
> certain cultures are more predisposed to crime.

Well in my experience, the majority of people who are poor and
unemployed DO resort to crime. Its usually extremely petty, like not
taxing MOTing or insuring a car, or shoplifting, or dealing a few ounces
of the good stuff on the estate, or trading in stolen goods.

Basically opportunistic crime.
Then a lot are also gaming the social security system. Whatever it
takes to get by.

But for real crime, you need a knight. All the knights I have met or
known of were criminals - usually massive frauds on the public, dodgy
companies, or sex crimes.

If you see sir Somecunt OrOther on a companies letterhead, steer well clear.

--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On 24/07/2023 12:39, GB wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 08:13, Fredxx wrote:
>
>> Is that an admission that it is predominantly ethnicity, aka culture,
>> that determines the likelihood of criminality?
>
> You are subscribing to the usual statistical fallacy. Repeat after me:
> "Correlation does not imply causation."
>
> If you not careful, you will say something indicative of your state of
> mind, like "Sending more fire engines to a blaze causes it to be bigger".

I'm not subscribing to anything.

The figures came from The Telegraph, and while I also subscribe to the
"Correlation does not imply causation", the stats are so extreme I'm not
convinced it matters. The sole explanation that it's down to "drivers of
crime, such as poverty, inequality and high unemployment" doesn't wash,
where other ethnic groups suffer similarly yet don't feel the need to
resort to gun crime.

If you feel obliged to look at a clear sky and convince yourself it's
pink because colour is culturally sensitive then that does say quite a
bit about one's state of mind.

On 24/07/2023 14:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> If you see sir Somecunt OrOther on a companies letterhead, steer well
> clear.
>
:)

Is there anybody you approve of?

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 18:20:49 -0700, NOT Michael Ejercito
<MEjercit@HotMail.com> wrote:

>Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 17:43:35 -0700, NOT Michael Ejercito
>> <MEjercit@HotMail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>
>>>> https://niggermania.club/tom/newstuff/london%20nigger%20crimes.jpg
>>>>
>>> Still pissed off that they refuse to stick it in you?
>>
>> Has ape Chrissie Morton stuck it in YOU yet, gook?
>>
>> #gookejershito
>>
> Of course not, for I am a MAN!

'Men' stick it in other 'men' all the time, gook. In fact,
California, where you infest, is making it MANDATORY as of next year!

#gookejershito

On 24/07/2023 14:05, Fredxx wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 12:39, GB wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 08:13, Fredxx wrote:
>>
>>> Is that an admission that it is predominantly ethnicity, aka culture,
>>> that determines the likelihood of criminality?
>>
>> You are subscribing to the usual statistical fallacy. Repeat after me:
>> "Correlation does not imply causation."
>>
>> If you not careful, you will say something indicative of your state of
>> mind, like "Sending more fire engines to a blaze causes it to be bigger".
>
> I'm not subscribing to anything.
>
> The figures came from The Telegraph, and while I also subscribe to the
> "Correlation does not imply causation", the stats are so extreme I'm not
> convinced it matters. The sole explanation that it's down to "drivers of
> crime, such as poverty, inequality and high unemployment" doesn't wash,
> where other ethnic groups suffer similarly yet don't feel the need to
> resort to gun crime.
>
> If you feel obliged to look at a clear sky and convince yourself it's
> pink because colour is culturally sensitive then that does say quite a
> bit about one's state of mind.
>
In the end it really doesn't matter why what is happening is happening,
or if its correlation or causation. When I had long hair and psychedelic
trousers I was always getting stopped and searched.

Today its people with black skins. Tough shit. Life is rough tough and
desperatly unjust. Get used to it and stop whining.

--
"An intellectual is a person knowledgeable in one field who speaks out
only in others...”

Tom Wolfe

On 24/07/2023 13:24, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to
>>>>>> Disraeli:
>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
>>>>>
>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>
>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular sector
>>>> of the population is over-represented compared to the general
>>>> population. For that you need to include the drivers of crime, such
>>>> as poverty, inequality and high unemployment, in the figures and see
>>>> how that sector is represented among that part of the population
>>>> affected by those. Statistics that don't include those can and
>>>> probably do lie.
>>>
>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from the
>>> likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it down to
>>> culture?
>>>
>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free school
>>> dinners as a child there would be many studies commissioned to show
>>> the correlation of the two without an ethnic bias. But there aren't,
>>> simply because it's an established fact that is criminality is cultural.
>>>
>>
>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime. Culture is
>> only proven to affect the types of crime they commit. East Europeans
>> and Chinese are the most likely to be involved in people trafficking.
>> White males are by far the most likely to be involved in sexual
>> grooming, but Asian males are more likely to do so as a group
>> activity. The prevalence of black males being convicted of street
>> crime is thought to be dues to racial bias in the police (blacks are
>> more than three times as likely to be stopped and arrested than
>> whites, although the conviction rate for whites is higher), more of
>> them living in areas of poverty and under-achievement of black pupils
>> in schools, compared to whites in the same schools.
>
> The majority of people who are 'poor and unemployed' do not resort to
> crime, this is a myth perpetuated by sociologists. It is just that
> certain cultures are more predisposed to crime.

What cultures lead to the street gangs of 19th century London, or the
Tongs of mid-20th century Glasgow?

>
>>
>> I have several distant cousins in Australia, due to seven people in my
>> family tree having been transported there. I have a direct ancestor
>> who died in Newgate Prison and several who served time at some point.
>> Does that make me culturally prone to criminality, or is it simply
>> that most of them were very poor?
>>
>

--
Colin Bignell

On 24/07/2023 14:11, GB wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 14:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> If you see sir Somecunt OrOther on a companies letterhead, steer well
>> clear.
>>
> :)
>
> Is there anybody you approve of?
>
>
Oh plenty. They are not in the public eye though.

There's a join mum I know casually, who is an absolute fighter, does gym
training, used to be a police diver, and asks for nothing from anybody
and has never told a lie to me or pretended to know something she didnt.
Respect. Obviously her advantage is she doesn't read the Guardian or
listen to the BBC.
That's the REAL working class who Get Things Done and are not work shy
or bent or lazy or think that because they gave a degree in the history
of ice cream they are cut out for something better.

--
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities.”

― Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles à M. Claparede, Professeur de
Théologie à Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de
M. de Voltaire

On 24/07/2023 14:22, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 13:24, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to
>>>>>>> Disraeli:
>>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular
>>>>> sector of the population is over-represented compared to the
>>>>> general population. For that you need to include the drivers of
>>>>> crime, such as poverty, inequality and high unemployment, in the
>>>>> figures and see how that sector is represented among that part of
>>>>> the population affected by those. Statistics that don't include
>>>>> those can and probably do lie.
>>>>
>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from the
>>>> likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it down to
>>>> culture?
>>>>
>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free school
>>>> dinners as a child there would be many studies commissioned to show
>>>> the correlation of the two without an ethnic bias. But there aren't,
>>>> simply because it's an established fact that is criminality is
>>>> cultural.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime. Culture
>>> is only proven to affect the types of crime they commit. East
>>> Europeans and Chinese are the most likely to be involved in people
>>> trafficking. White males are by far the most likely to be involved in
>>> sexual grooming, but Asian males are more likely to do so as a group
>>> activity. The prevalence of black males being convicted of street
>>> crime is thought to be dues to racial bias in the police (blacks are
>>> more than three times as likely to be stopped and arrested than
>>> whites, although the conviction rate for whites is higher), more of
>>> them living in areas of poverty and under-achievement of black pupils
>>> in schools, compared to whites in the same schools.
>>
>> The majority of people who are 'poor and unemployed' do not resort to
>> crime, this is a myth perpetuated by sociologists. It is just that
>> certain cultures are more predisposed to crime.
>
> What cultures lead to the street gangs of 19th century London, or the
> Tongs of mid-20th century Glasgow?

It would be difficult to assert that those gangs formed any sort of
majority of the 'poor and unemployed.

Factional street theft gangs usually have some sort of 'mastermind' e.g
Fagin types.

>
>>
>>>
>>> I have several distant cousins in Australia, due to seven people in
>>> my family tree having been transported there. I have a direct
>>> ancestor who died in Newgate Prison and several who served time at
>>> some point. Does that make me culturally prone to criminality, or is
>>> it simply that most of them were very poor?
>>>
>>
>

On 24/07/2023 12:10 pm, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 11:18, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 09:35, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 09:25, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 08:36, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 08:13, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to
>>>>>>>>>>> Disraeli:
>>>>>>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>>>>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular
>>>>>>>>> sector of the population is over-represented compared to the
>>>>>>>>> general population. For that you need to include the drivers of
>>>>>>>>> crime, such as poverty, inequality and high unemployment, in
>>>>>>>>> the figures and see how that sector is represented among that
>>>>>>>>> part of the population affected by those. Statistics that don't
>>>>>>>>> include those can and probably do lie.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from
>>>>>>>> the likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it
>>>>>>>> down to culture?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free
>>>>>>>> school dinners as a child there would be many studies
>>>>>>>> commissioned to show the correlation of the two without an
>>>>>>>> ethnic bias. But there aren't, simply because it's an
>>>>>>>> established fact that is criminality is cultural.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>>>>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime.
>>>>>>> Culture is only proven to affect the types of crime they commit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is that an admission that it is predominantly ethnicity, aka
>>>>>> culture, that determines the likelihood of criminality?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is, in fact, the exact opposite.
>>>>
>>>> So your saying the quantity of crime is independent on race, but
>>>> agree for example, white collar crime is predominantly carried out
>>>> by Caucasian and gun crime predominantly by blacks?
>>>>
>>>
>>> In response to a FOI request, the Metropolitan Police stated that
>>> there is insufficient data to break down the incidence of gun crime
>>> by ethnicity, even over a ten year period. If they can't say whether
>>> gun crime is predominantly the preserve of one particular ethnic
>>> group, I am not going to speculate.
>>
>> Is the Telegraph making this up?
>
> I have no idea.
>
>>   "The data provide a breakdown of the ethnicity of the 18,091 men and
>> boys who police took action against for a range of violent and sexual
>> offences in London in 2009-10.
>>
>> They show that among those proceeded against for street crimes, 54 per
>> cent were black; for robbery, 59 per cent; and for gun crimes, 67 per
>> cent."
>>
>> Perhaps, like yourself, the Metropolitan Police are fearful of making
>> any meaningful comment.
>
> Gun and knife crime in the Met account for around 2% of violent crimes,
> the majority of those are knife crime and ethnicity is not recorded in
> all cases. Perhaps, unlike a journalist, the police recognise when the
> sample space is too small to produce any meaningful data.

And the victims and witnesses can never recognise the ethnicity of the
criminals, can they?

On 24/07/2023 14:54, JNugent wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 12:10 pm, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 11:18, Fredxx wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 09:35, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 09:25, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 08:36, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 08:13, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to
>>>>>>>>>>>> Disraeli:
>>>>>>>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> statistics
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>>>>>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular
>>>>>>>>>> sector of the population is over-represented compared to the
>>>>>>>>>> general population. For that you need to include the drivers
>>>>>>>>>> of crime, such as poverty, inequality and high unemployment,
>>>>>>>>>> in the figures and see how that sector is represented among
>>>>>>>>>> that part of the population affected by those. Statistics that
>>>>>>>>>> don't include those can and probably do lie.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from
>>>>>>>>> the likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put
>>>>>>>>> it down to culture?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free
>>>>>>>>> school dinners as a child there would be many studies
>>>>>>>>> commissioned to show the correlation of the two without an
>>>>>>>>> ethnic bias. But there aren't, simply because it's an
>>>>>>>>> established fact that is criminality is cultural.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>>>>>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime.
>>>>>>>> Culture is only proven to affect the types of crime they commit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is that an admission that it is predominantly ethnicity, aka
>>>>>>> culture, that determines the likelihood of criminality?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is, in fact, the exact opposite.
>>>>>
>>>>> So your saying the quantity of crime is independent on race, but
>>>>> agree for example, white collar crime is predominantly carried out
>>>>> by Caucasian and gun crime predominantly by blacks?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In response to a FOI request, the Metropolitan Police stated that
>>>> there is insufficient data to break down the incidence of gun crime
>>>> by ethnicity, even over a ten year period. If they can't say whether
>>>> gun crime is predominantly the preserve of one particular ethnic
>>>> group, I am not going to speculate.
>>>
>>> Is the Telegraph making this up?
>>
>> I have no idea.
>>
>>>   "The data provide a breakdown of the ethnicity of the 18,091 men
>>> and boys who police took action against for a range of violent and
>>> sexual offences in London in 2009-10.
>>>
>>> They show that among those proceeded against for street crimes, 54
>>> per cent were black; for robbery, 59 per cent; and for gun crimes, 67
>>> per cent."
>>>
>>> Perhaps, like yourself, the Metropolitan Police are fearful of making
>>> any meaningful comment.
>>
>> Gun and knife crime in the Met account for around 2% of violent
>> crimes, the majority of those are knife crime and ethnicity is not
>> recorded in all cases. Perhaps, unlike a journalist, the police
>> recognise when the sample space is too small to produce any meaningful
>> data.
>
> And the victims and witnesses can never recognise the ethnicity of the
> criminals, can they?

Even if the do, there is no guarantee that information will be recorded
against the crime in the statistics.

--
Colin Bignell

On 24/07/2023 14:34, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 14:22, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 13:24, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>>> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly, to
>>>>>>>> Disraeli:
>>>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular
>>>>>> sector of the population is over-represented compared to the
>>>>>> general population. For that you need to include the drivers of
>>>>>> crime, such as poverty, inequality and high unemployment, in the
>>>>>> figures and see how that sector is represented among that part of
>>>>>> the population affected by those. Statistics that don't include
>>>>>> those can and probably do lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from the
>>>>> likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it down
>>>>> to culture?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free
>>>>> school dinners as a child there would be many studies commissioned
>>>>> to show the correlation of the two without an ethnic bias. But
>>>>> there aren't, simply because it's an established fact that is
>>>>> criminality is cultural.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime. Culture
>>>> is only proven to affect the types of crime they commit. East
>>>> Europeans and Chinese are the most likely to be involved in people
>>>> trafficking. White males are by far the most likely to be involved
>>>> in sexual grooming, but Asian males are more likely to do so as a
>>>> group activity. The prevalence of black males being convicted of
>>>> street crime is thought to be dues to racial bias in the police
>>>> (blacks are more than three times as likely to be stopped and
>>>> arrested than whites, although the conviction rate for whites is
>>>> higher), more of them living in areas of poverty and
>>>> under-achievement of black pupils in schools, compared to whites in
>>>> the same schools.
>>>
>>> The majority of people who are 'poor and unemployed' do not resort to
>>> crime, this is a myth perpetuated by sociologists. It is just that
>>> certain cultures are more predisposed to crime.
>>
>> What cultures lead to the street gangs of 19th century London, or the
>> Tongs of mid-20th century Glasgow?
>
> It would be difficult to assert that those gangs formed any sort of
> majority of the 'poor and unemployed.

I wasn't disputing that part. I was asking what cultural influences were
at work.
> Factional street theft gangs usually have some sort of 'mastermind' e.g
> Fagin types.

I would expect any gang to have a leader, unless it is a gang of
anarchists. Again, I don't see how that is relevant to culture.

--
Colin Bignell

Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 13:24, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from the
>>>> likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it down to
>>>> culture?
>>>>
>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free school
>>>> dinners as a child there would be many studies commissioned to show
>>>> the correlation of the two without an ethnic bias. But there aren't,
>>>> simply because it's an established fact that is criminality is
>>>> cultural.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime. Culture
>>> is only proven to affect the types of crime they commit. East
>>> Europeans and Chinese are the most likely to be involved in people
>>> trafficking. White males are by far the most likely to be involved in
>>> sexual grooming, but Asian males are more likely to do so as a group
>>> activity. The prevalence of black males being convicted of street
>>> crime is thought to be dues to racial bias in the police (blacks are
>>> more than three times as likely to be stopped and arrested than
>>> whites, although the conviction rate for whites is higher), more of
>>> them living in areas of poverty and under-achievement of black pupils
>>> in schools, compared to whites in the same schools.
>>
>> The majority of people who are 'poor and unemployed' do not resort to
>> crime, this is a myth perpetuated by sociologists. It is just that
>> certain cultures are more predisposed to crime.
>
> What cultures lead to the street gangs of 19th century London, or the
> Tongs of mid-20th century Glasgow?
>

The cultures that existed in those cities at the time, of course.

Michael

On 24/07/2023 04:19 pm, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 14:54, JNugent wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 12:10 pm, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 11:18, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 09:35, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 09:25, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 08:36, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 08:13, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Disraeli:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> statistics
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>>>>>>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a particular
>>>>>>>>>>> sector of the population is over-represented compared to the
>>>>>>>>>>> general population. For that you need to include the drivers
>>>>>>>>>>> of crime, such as poverty, inequality and high unemployment,
>>>>>>>>>>> in the figures and see how that sector is represented among
>>>>>>>>>>> that part of the population affected by those. Statistics
>>>>>>>>>>> that don't include those can and probably do lie.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from
>>>>>>>>>> the likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put
>>>>>>>>>> it down to culture?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free
>>>>>>>>>> school dinners as a child there would be many studies
>>>>>>>>>> commissioned to show the correlation of the two without an
>>>>>>>>>> ethnic bias. But there aren't, simply because it's an
>>>>>>>>>> established fact that is criminality is cultural.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>>>>>>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime.
>>>>>>>>> Culture is only proven to affect the types of crime they commit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is that an admission that it is predominantly ethnicity, aka
>>>>>>>> culture, that determines the likelihood of criminality?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is, in fact, the exact opposite.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So your saying the quantity of crime is independent on race, but
>>>>>> agree for example, white collar crime is predominantly carried out
>>>>>> by Caucasian and gun crime predominantly by blacks?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In response to a FOI request, the Metropolitan Police stated that
>>>>> there is insufficient data to break down the incidence of gun crime
>>>>> by ethnicity, even over a ten year period. If they can't say
>>>>> whether gun crime is predominantly the preserve of one particular
>>>>> ethnic group, I am not going to speculate.
>>>>
>>>> Is the Telegraph making this up?
>>>
>>> I have no idea.
>>>
>>>>   "The data provide a breakdown of the ethnicity of the 18,091 men
>>>> and boys who police took action against for a range of violent and
>>>> sexual offences in London in 2009-10.
>>>>
>>>> They show that among those proceeded against for street crimes, 54
>>>> per cent were black; for robbery, 59 per cent; and for gun crimes,
>>>> 67 per cent."
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps, like yourself, the Metropolitan Police are fearful of
>>>> making any meaningful comment.
>>>
>>> Gun and knife crime in the Met account for around 2% of violent
>>> crimes, the majority of those are knife crime and ethnicity is not
>>> recorded in all cases. Perhaps, unlike a journalist, the police
>>> recognise when the sample space is too small to produce any
>>> meaningful data.
>>
>> And the victims and witnesses can never recognise the ethnicity of the
>> criminals, can they?
>
> Even if the do, there is no guarantee that information will be recorded
> against the crime in the statistics.

*if*?

Are they all dressed up in SAS attire?

Wouldn't that make them a bit easy to spot?

On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 08:38:53 -0700, NOT Michael Ejercito
<MEjercit@HotMail.com> wrote:

>Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 13:24, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>>> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons from the
>>>>> likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not simply put it down to
>>>>> culture?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free school
>>>>> dinners as a child there would be many studies commissioned to show
>>>>> the correlation of the two without an ethnic bias. But there aren't,
>>>>> simply because it's an established fact that is criminality is
>>>>> cultural.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and high
>>>> unemployment are proven factors in why people commit crime. Culture
>>>> is only proven to affect the types of crime they commit. East
>>>> Europeans and Chinese are the most likely to be involved in people
>>>> trafficking. White males are by far the most likely to be involved in
>>>> sexual grooming, but Asian males are more likely to do so as a group
>>>> activity. The prevalence of black males being convicted of street
>>>> crime is thought to be dues to racial bias in the police (blacks are
>>>> more than three times as likely to be stopped and arrested than
>>>> whites, although the conviction rate for whites is higher), more of
>>>> them living in areas of poverty and under-achievement of black pupils
>>>> in schools, compared to whites in the same schools.
>>>
>>> The majority of people who are 'poor and unemployed' do not resort to
>>> crime, this is a myth perpetuated by sociologists. It is just that
>>> certain cultures are more predisposed to crime.
>>
>> What cultures lead to the street gangs of 19th century London, or the
>> Tongs of mid-20th century Glasgow?
>>
>
> The cultures that existed in those cities at the time, of course.

Non-indigenous non-white 'culltures' that had no business being there
in the first place.

#gookejershito

In article <tq9tbi1867mt6kpc2t33rfspj9lik4gm1b@4ax.com>,
sick old nazoid paedo Andrew 'Andrzej' Baron ("Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells") wrote:

> Non-indigenous non-white

You are NOT White. You're a filthy mongrel. That's one of the reasons that
REAL British women shat and pissed all over you:

"You may have something there. This touchy-feely 'New Man' attitude
isn't getting me anywhere. Perhaps I should go for the more basic
Neanderthal approach." -- sick old nazoid paedo Andrew 'Andrzej' Baron,
Message-ID: <38612a35.305002@news.ukgateway.net>#1/1.

> 'culltures'

Learn to spell, inferior mongrel.

On 24/07/2023 16:48, JNugent wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 04:19 pm, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 14:54, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 12:10 pm, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 11:18, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 09:35, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 09:25, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 08:36, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 08:13, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 14:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 12:09, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 10:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2023 07:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/07/2023 23:13, Carolyn Jean Swikard Berg wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Statistics don't lie:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As Mark Twain wrote, attributing it, possibly mistakenly,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Disraeli:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statistics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if you don't like the numbers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article is 13 years old, but I doubt much has changed.
>>>>>>>>>>>> However, that does not look into the reasons why a
>>>>>>>>>>>> particular sector of the population is over-represented
>>>>>>>>>>>> compared to the general population. For that you need to
>>>>>>>>>>>> include the drivers of crime, such as poverty, inequality
>>>>>>>>>>>> and high unemployment, in the figures and see how that
>>>>>>>>>>>> sector is represented among that part of the population
>>>>>>>>>>>> affected by those. Statistics that don't include those can
>>>>>>>>>>>> and probably do lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Given that other ethnic minorities do not inhabit prisons
>>>>>>>>>>> from the likes of gun crime disproportionately, why not
>>>>>>>>>>> simply put it down to culture?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If it was purely down to say whether a criminal received free
>>>>>>>>>>> school dinners as a child there would be many studies
>>>>>>>>>>> commissioned to show the correlation of the two without an
>>>>>>>>>>> ethnic bias. But there aren't, simply because it's an
>>>>>>>>>>> established fact that is criminality is cultural.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is far too simplistic a view. Poverty, inequality and
>>>>>>>>>> high unemployment are proven factors in why people commit
>>>>>>>>>> crime. Culture is only proven to affect the types of crime
>>>>>>>>>> they commit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is that an admission that it is predominantly ethnicity, aka
>>>>>>>>> culture, that determines the likelihood of criminality?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is, in fact, the exact opposite.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So your saying the quantity of crime is independent on race, but
>>>>>>> agree for example, white collar crime is predominantly carried
>>>>>>> out by Caucasian and gun crime predominantly by blacks?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In response to a FOI request, the Metropolitan Police stated that
>>>>>> there is insufficient data to break down the incidence of gun
>>>>>> crime by ethnicity, even over a ten year period. If they can't say
>>>>>> whether gun crime is predominantly the preserve of one particular
>>>>>> ethnic group, I am not going to speculate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the Telegraph making this up?
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea.
>>>>
>>>>>   "The data provide a breakdown of the ethnicity of the 18,091 men
>>>>> and boys who police took action against for a range of violent and
>>>>> sexual offences in London in 2009-10.
>>>>>
>>>>> They show that among those proceeded against for street crimes, 54
>>>>> per cent were black; for robbery, 59 per cent; and for gun crimes,
>>>>> 67 per cent."
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps, like yourself, the Metropolitan Police are fearful of
>>>>> making any meaningful comment.
>>>>
>>>> Gun and knife crime in the Met account for around 2% of violent
>>>> crimes, the majority of those are knife crime and ethnicity is not
>>>> recorded in all cases. Perhaps, unlike a journalist, the police
>>>> recognise when the sample space is too small to produce any
>>>> meaningful data.
>>>
>>> And the victims and witnesses can never recognise the ethnicity of
>>> the criminals, can they?
>>
>> Even if the do, there is no guarantee that information will be
>> recorded against the crime in the statistics.
>
> *if*?
>
> Are they all dressed up in SAS attire?

A hoodie with a scarf over the face seems more probable. However, the
main problem is that witnesses are notoriously unreliable. as well as
probably being far more fixated on the weapon than on trying to recall
things that might help the police.

> Wouldn't that make them a bit easy to spot?

--
Colin Bignell