On 10/31/2023 8:03 AM, ogden wrote:
> Champ wrote:
>> ogden wrote:
>>> Funny thing, words. Imagine my surprise when I learned what being one of two students in an Arabic class made me...
>>
>> Infidel?
>
> Perhaps later on, when Covid moved all classes online, and I usually had a pint on the go while dialled in.
>
> Anyway... https://translate.google.com/?sl=en&tl=ar&text=the%20two%20students&op=translate

huh. Thanks.

As for "the river and the sea," it's long been known as the land between
the Jordan river and the Mediterranean, but that's just a territory,
without any added connotations. YTC has another meaning, apparently.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS & ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 31/10/2023 22:46 GeoffC penned these words:

> Grant Shapps. Wot a twat

There are very few politicians in parliament that are not.
--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On 31/10/2023 22:17, Turby wrote:
> On 10/31/2023 8:03 AM, ogden wrote:
>> Champ wrote:
>>> ogden wrote:
>>>> Funny thing, words. Imagine my surprise when I learned what being
>>>> one of two students in an Arabic class made me...
>>>
>>> Infidel?
>>
>> Perhaps later on, when Covid moved all classes online, and I usually
>> had a pint on the go while dialled in.
>>
>> Anyway...
>> https://translate.google.com/?sl=en&tl=ar&text=the%20two%20students&op=translate
>
> huh. Thanks.
>
> As for "the river and the sea," it's long been known as the land between
> the Jordan river and the Mediterranean, but that's just a territory,
> without any added connotations. YTC has another meaning, apparently.
>

This is the whole point of the post, apparently it is a statement of
genocide against the people of Israel.

This has caused the removal of the whip of a Labour MP.

>

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

Boots wrote:

> On 31/10/2023 22:46 GeoffC penned these words:
>
> > Grant Shapps. Wot a twat
>
> There are very few politicians in parliament that are not.

Yeah pretty lacklustre lot I suppose, especially after "The Beast of
Bolsover" retired.

https://theweek.com/62692/dennis-skinner-quotes-the-beast-of-bolsover-in-full-flow

--

Geoff
NTV650

YTC#1 wrote:
> Turby wrote:
> > As for "the river and the sea," it's long been known as the land between
> > the Jordan river and the Mediterranean, but that's just a territory,
> > without any added connotations. YTC has another meaning, apparently.
> >
> This is the whole point of the post, apparently it is a statement of
> genocide against the people of Israel.

It's a catchy rhyme (...Palestine will be free) which happens to have two interpretations. One of which is a show of solidarity with an oppressed and occupied people, and the other is incitement to genocide. Awkward.

> This has caused the removal of the whip of a Labour MP.

Two things to bear in mind here. Many on the left have a long-held stance of solidarity with the occupied people of Palestine, which can easily be twisted into a stance of antisemitism. In some cases it's unfortunately not much of a stretch. And Labour are very much moving into campaign mode for a 2024 election, while still being acutely aware of accusations of antisemitism during the Corbyn years, and will be trying to avoid turning off subsets of voters.

Internal discipline always seems to be a struggle for the rabble^Wbroad church that is Labour, with someone guaranteed to go wildly off-message at the most crucial moments (hello Diane Abbot), so often something needs to be done pour encourager les autres.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

>But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>
>Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>
>But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone should
>know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>explain it.

I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
you're all talking about - someone care to explain?

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 01/11/2023 10:20, Ace wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>> a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>
>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>
>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone should
>> know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>> explain it.
>
> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>
Labour politicos covering their back-passages 'cos of a use of a fairly
innocent (AFAICT) phrase which *could* be construed to denote support
for Palestinian stances, hence extreme ones, consequently its effect on
Israeli-supporting voters at the General Erection.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 01/11/2023 10:20, Ace wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>> a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>
>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>
>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone should
>> know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>> explain it.
>
> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>
+1 !
Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 01/11/2023 10:50, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 01/11/2023 10:20, Ace wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>>> a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>>
>>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>>
>>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone should
>>> know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>>> explain it.
>>
>> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
>> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>>
> Labour politicos covering their back-passages 'cos of a use of a fairly
> innocent (AFAICT) phrase which *could* be construed to denote support
> for Palestinian stances, hence extreme ones, consequently its effect on
> Israeli-supporting voters at the General Erection.
>
Ta,
And what phrase was that, uttered by whom?
TIA
Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 01/11/2023 11:02, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
> On 01/11/2023 10:50, RustyHinge wrote:
>> On 01/11/2023 10:20, Ace wrote:
>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>>>> a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>>>
>>>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>>>
>>>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone
>>>> should
>>>> know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>>>> explain it.
>>>
>>> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
>>> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>>>
>> Labour politicos covering their back-passages 'cos of a use of a
>> fairly innocent (AFAICT) phrase which *could* be construed to denote
>> support for Palestinian stances, hence extreme ones, consequently its
>> effect on Israeli-supporting voters at the General Erection.
>>
> Ta,
> And what phrase was that, uttered by whom?

New one on me, so it was: 'Between the river and the sea' - meaning the
territory between the Jordan and the Med.

Haven't a clue who said it- a Labour MP of whom I'd never heard and
whose name now eludes me.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in news:bh94ki9d4lquqnrt2lqdjkasa9nscb6017@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>>a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>
>>Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>
>>But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone should
>>know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>>explain it.
>
> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>

https://news.sky.com/story/andy-mcdonald-senior-labour-mp-suspended-over-deeply-offensive-comments-at-pro-palestine-rally-12996759

and an explainer from the Guardian about the history of the phrase and
why it is problematic for the Labour Party
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/from-the-river-to-the-sea-where-does-the-slogan-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean-israel-palestine

and a satire on where a lot of people feel the Labour leader sits on
this and other contentious matters
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2023/oct/30/ben-jennings-on-the-painful-ambiguity-of-keir-starmer-cartoon

On 01/11/2023 11:15, wessie wrote:
> Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in news:bh94ki9d4lquqnrt2lqdjkasa9nscb6017@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>>> a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>>
>>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>>
>>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone should
>>> know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>>> explain it.
>>
>> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
>> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>>
>
> https://news.sky.com/story/andy-mcdonald-senior-labour-mp-suspended-over-deeply-offensive-comments-at-pro-palestine-rally-12996759
>
> and an explainer from the Guardian about the history of the phrase and
> why it is problematic for the Labour Party
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/from-the-river-to-the-sea-where-does-the-slogan-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean-israel-palestine
>
> and a satire on where a lot of people feel the Labour leader sits on
> this and other contentious matters
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2023/oct/30/ben-jennings-on-the-painful-ambiguity-of-keir-starmer-cartoon

Thanks for that.
So a few ill-chosen words have (yet again) caused uproar?
Not a lot of sympathy - but not a lot of condemnation either.
Its a sideshow.
<Shakes head sadly and turns away>

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 01/11/2023 11:15, wessie wrote:
> Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in news:bh94ki9d4lquqnrt2lqdjkasa9nscb6017@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>>> a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>>
>>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>>
>>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone should
>>> know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>>> explain it.
>>
>> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
>> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>>
>
> https://news.sky.com/story/andy-mcdonald-senior-labour-mp-suspended-over-deeply-offensive-comments-at-pro-palestine-rally-12996759
>
> and an explainer from the Guardian about the history of the phrase and
> why it is problematic for the Labour Party
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/from-the-river-to-the-sea-where-does-the-slogan-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean-israel-palestine
>
> and a satire on where a lot of people feel the Labour leader sits on
> this and other contentious matters
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2023/oct/30/ben-jennings-on-the-painful-ambiguity-of-keir-starmer-cartoon

“We cannot be too careful about the words we use; we start out using
them and they end up using us.” — Eugene H. Peterson

Takes me right back to December 2011 and "OT: Credit where it's due."

--
Moto Morini 2C/375
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
Honda CB250RS (Not Waynetta!)
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

On 01/11/2023 11:15, wessie wrote:
> Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in news:bh94ki9d4lquqnrt2lqdjkasa9nscb6017@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>>> a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>>
>>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>>
>>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone should
>>> know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>>> explain it.
>>
>> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
>> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>>
>
> https://news.sky.com/story/andy-mcdonald-senior-labour-mp-suspended-over-deeply-offensive-comments-at-pro-palestine-rally-12996759
>
> and an explainer from the Guardian about the history of the phrase and
> why it is problematic for the Labour Party
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/from-the-river-to-the-sea-where-does-the-slogan-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean-israel-palestine

Didn't the Palestinians live freely there, before the state of Israel
was created?

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:uhtsll$1m7sq$1@dont-email.me:

> On 01/11/2023 11:15, wessie wrote:
>> Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
>> news:bh94ki9d4lquqnrt2lqdjkasa9nscb6017@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river
>>>> and a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>>>
>>>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone
>>>> should know that it implies what they say it implies and not
>>>> bothering to explain it.
>>>
>>> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
>>> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>>>
>>
>> https://news.sky.com/story/andy-mcdonald-senior-labour-mp-suspended-ov
>> er-deeply-offensive-comments-at-pro-palestine-rally-12996759
>>
>> and an explainer from the Guardian about the history of the phrase
>> and why it is problematic for the Labour Party
>> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/from-the-river-to-the-se
>> a-where-does-the-slogan-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean-israel-palesti
>> ne
>
> Didn't the Palestinians live freely there, before the state of Israel
> was created?
>

No

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine

it was part of the Ottoman Empire until WW1, then guess who were next in
line to fuck up the place ...

On 11/1/2023 8:59 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 01/11/2023 11:15, wessie wrote:
>> Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
>> news:bh94ki9d4lquqnrt2lqdjkasa9nscb6017@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>>>> a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>>>
>>>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>>>
>>>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone
>>>> should
>>>> know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>>>> explain it.
>>>
>>> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
>>> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>>>
>>
>> https://news.sky.com/story/andy-mcdonald-senior-labour-mp-suspended-over-deeply-offensive-comments-at-pro-palestine-rally-12996759
>>
>> and an explainer from the Guardian about the history of the phrase and
>> why it is problematic for the Labour Party
>> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/from-the-river-to-the-sea-where-does-the-slogan-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean-israel-palestine
>
> Didn't the Palestinians live freely there, before the state of Israel
> was created?
>
No. Palestine was never an independent country.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS & ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 11/1/2023 4:15 AM, wessie wrote:
> Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in news:bh94ki9d4lquqnrt2lqdjkasa9nscb6017@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>>> a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>>
>>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>>
>>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone should
>>> know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>>> explain it.
>>
>> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
>> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>>
>
> https://news.sky.com/story/andy-mcdonald-senior-labour-mp-suspended-over-deeply-offensive-comments-at-pro-palestine-rally-12996759
>
> and an explainer from the Guardian about the history of the phrase and
> why it is problematic for the Labour Party
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/from-the-river-to-the-sea-where-does-the-slogan-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean-israel-palestine
>

Crap. The term was used long before Hamas perverted it.

About antisemitism - Arabs and Jews are both Semites.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS & ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 01/11/2023 19:00, wessie wrote:
>YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:uhtsll$1m7sq$1@dont-email.me:
>

>>
>> Didn't the Palestinians live freely there, before the state of Israel
>> was created?
>>
>
>No
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
>
>it was part of the Ottoman Empire until WW1, then guess who were next in
>line to fuck up the place ...

What did the Ottomans ever do for us?

--
Geoff
NTV 650

geoffC <me@home.nl> wrote:
> On 01/11/2023 19:00, wessie wrote:
>>YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:uhtsll$1m7sq$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>
>>>
>>> Didn't the Palestinians live freely there, before the state of Israel
>>> was created?
>>>
>>
>>No
>>
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
>>
>>it was part of the Ottoman Empire until WW1, then guess who were next in
>>line to fuck up the place ...
>
> What did the Ottomans ever do for us?

Gave us a place to put our feet?

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 01/11/2023 19:37, Mark Olson wrote:
>geoffC <me@home.nl> wrote:
>> On 01/11/2023 19:00, wessie wrote:
>>>YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:uhtsll$1m7sq$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Didn't the Palestinians live freely there, before the state of Israel
>>>> was created?
>>>>
>>>
>>>No
>>>
>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
>>>
>>>it was part of the Ottoman Empire until WW1, then guess who were next in
>>>line to fuck up the place ...
>>
>> What did the Ottomans ever do for us?
>
>Gave us a place to put our feet?

Well, OK, apart from that.....
--
Geoff
NTV 650

On 01/11/2023 18:32, geoffC wrote:
> On 01/11/2023 19:00, wessie wrote:
>> YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:uhtsll$1m7sq$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>
>>>
>>> Didn't the Palestinians live freely there, before the state of Israel
>>> was created?
>>>
>>
>> No
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
>> it was part of the Ottoman Empire until WW1, then guess who were next
>> in line to fuck up the place ...
>
> What did the Ottomans ever do for us?

They were handy to sit on?

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 11:03:21 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/1/2023 8:59 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 01/11/2023 11:15, wessie wrote:
>>> Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
>>> news:bh94ki9d4lquqnrt2lqdjkasa9nscb6017@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>>>>> a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>>>>
>>>>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone
>>>>> should
>>>>> know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>>>>> explain it.
>>>>
>>>> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
>>>> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>>>>
>>>
>>> https://news.sky.com/story/andy-mcdonald-senior-labour-mp-suspended-over-deeply-offensive-comments-at-pro-palestine-rally-12996759
>>>
>>> and an explainer from the Guardian about the history of the phrase and
>>> why it is problematic for the Labour Party
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/from-the-river-to-the-sea-where-does-the-slogan-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean-israel-palestine
>>
>> Didn't the Palestinians live freely there, before the state of Israel
>> was created?
>>
>No. Palestine was never an independent country.

Should that stop people from referring to natives of Palestine as
Palestinians?

--
Colin Irvine
R1250RS

On 01/11/2023 20:10, Colin Irvine wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 11:03:21 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/1/2023 8:59 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2023 11:15, wessie wrote:
>>>> Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
>>>> news:bh94ki9d4lquqnrt2lqdjkasa9nscb6017@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>>>>>> a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>>>>>> explain it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
>>>>> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://news.sky.com/story/andy-mcdonald-senior-labour-mp-suspended-over-deeply-offensive-comments-at-pro-palestine-rally-12996759
>>>>
>>>> and an explainer from the Guardian about the history of the phrase and
>>>> why it is problematic for the Labour Party
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/from-the-river-to-the-sea-where-does-the-slogan-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean-israel-palestine
>>>
>>> Didn't the Palestinians live freely there, before the state of Israel
>>> was created?
>>>
>> No. Palestine was never an independent country.
>
> Should that stop people from referring to natives of Palestine as
> Palestinians?
>

AS fucked up shit goes, it is hard to beat

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
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On 11/1/2023 1:10 PM, Colin Irvine wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 11:03:21 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/1/2023 8:59 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>
>>> Didn't the Palestinians live freely there, before the state of Israel
>>> was created?
>>>
>> No. Palestine was never an independent country.
>
> Should that stop people from referring to natives of Palestine as
> Palestinians?
>
Not at all.
It's such a botched mess. It's been decades since I was there, but my
experience taught me a lot. Many Israelis and Palestinians would like to
co-exist and harbor no ill will toward each other. It's outside forces
that are much of the problem. Hamas is a tyrannical force supported by
Iran, Syria, and other Arab nations that care virtually nothing about
Palestinians. They just want to see Israel fail. So, militant actions
by Hamas, etc, drove the right wing into power in Israel and the
liberals can only watch as it all goes to hell.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS & ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 01/11/2023 20:10, Colin Irvine wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 11:03:21 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/1/2023 8:59 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2023 11:15, wessie wrote:
>>>> Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
>>>> news:bh94ki9d4lquqnrt2lqdjkasa9nscb6017@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But until the other day if someone had said something about a river and
>>>>>> a sea, plus the are between. I would have stared blankly at them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having read a bit, see what is being refereed to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But what I don't understand is that people seem to think everyone
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> know that it implies what they say it implies and not bothering to
>>>>>> explain it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've read and re-read this whole thread and still have no idea what
>>>>> you're all talking about - someone care to explain?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://news.sky.com/story/andy-mcdonald-senior-labour-mp-suspended-over-deeply-offensive-comments-at-pro-palestine-rally-12996759
>>>>
>>>> and an explainer from the Guardian about the history of the phrase and
>>>> why it is problematic for the Labour Party
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/from-the-river-to-the-sea-where-does-the-slogan-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean-israel-palestine
>>>
>>> Didn't the Palestinians live freely there, before the state of Israel
>>> was created?
>>>
>> No. Palestine was never an independent country.
>
> Should that stop people from referring to natives of Palestine as
> Palestinians?
>
No - I'm part Cornish...

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.