Browsing this (cold) morn, I came upon an ad on the big river company
for a chromebook (Yuk, the last two I inadvertintly got, I passed on to
female relatives. Wimmin do not distinguish crud). 14 days to come,
which would indicate the land of Han. 146 euros.

Years ago, coinage was "Pound Sterling", which I always thought was
short for "Pound Easterling money", ie, German money. as the euro is
basically German money, and the pound is floating against the euro, is
there any sence in the whole mess?. Now, as (de)parting from the euro is
part of the platform of the AFD, what is the situation going to be
then?. (poundo Italiano?)
--
greymausg@mail.com
Are there no jails, no lockdowns?
Not even an .Influencer to crucify?

On 6 Jan 2024 16:03:08 GMT
maus <maus@deb2.org> wrote:

> Years ago, coinage was "Pound Sterling", which I always thought was
> short for "Pound Easterling money", ie, German money. as the euro is
> basically German money, and the pound is floating against the euro, is
> there any sence in the whole mess?. Now, as (de)parting from the euro is
> part of the platform of the AFD, what is the situation going to be
> then?. (poundo Italiano?)

If the various far right parties like AFD have their way the EU
will come to an end. I doubt it will be more than a couple of decades from
then that war returns to Europe.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 2024-01-06, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 6 Jan 2024 16:03:08 GMT
> maus <maus@deb2.org> wrote:
>
>> Years ago, coinage was "Pound Sterling", which I always thought was
>> short for "Pound Easterling money", ie, German money. as the euro is
>> basically German money, and the pound is floating against the euro, is
>> there any sence in the whole mess?. Now, as (de)parting from the euro is
>> part of the platform of the AFD, what is the situation going to be
>> then?. (poundo Italiano?)
>
> If the various far right parties like AFD have their way the EU
> will come to an end. I doubt it will be more than a couple of decades from
> then that war returns to Europe.
>

There seems to be some sort of village riot going on ine southeast
europe at the momment. I would resent the AFD being called `right-wing'.
As the Labour Party in England is moving to the right of the Tories, and
most of the decisions in germany being `ultra-stupid' recently
(Including their decisions to close down nuclear power plants) all the
usual labels are now meaningless.

--
greymausg@mail.com
Is There even an .Influencer to impale?
Charles I, beheaded, Charles II, killed by doctors, What is happen to poor Chuck III?

On 06/01/2024 16:49, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On 6 Jan 2024 16:03:08 GMT
> maus <maus@deb2.org> wrote:
>
>> Years ago, coinage was "Pound Sterling", which I always thought was
>> short for "Pound Easterling money", ie, German money. as the euro is
>> basically German money, and the pound is floating against the euro, is
>> there any sence in the whole mess?. Now, as (de)parting from the euro is
>> part of the platform of the AFD, what is the situation going to be
>> then?. (poundo Italiano?)
>
> If the various far right parties like AFD have their way the EU
> will come to an end. I doubt it will be more than a couple of decades from
> then that war returns to Europe.

Support for the EU has risen among EU voters since Br*xit. If any of the
far right parties got in and had an in-out [1] referendum, I think they
would be disappointed.

[1] and shake it all about

On 07-Jan-24 2:21, Mike Fleming wrote:
> On 06/01/2024 16:49, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On 6 Jan 2024 16:03:08 GMT
>> maus <maus@deb2.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Years ago, coinage was "Pound Sterling", which I always thought was
>>> short for "Pound Easterling money", ie, German money. as the euro is
>>> basically German money, and the pound is floating against the euro,  is
>>> there any sence in the whole mess?. Now, as (de)parting from the euro is
>>> part of the platform of the AFD, what is the situation going to be
>>> then?. (poundo Italiano?)
>>
>>     If the various far right parties like AFD have their way the EU
>> will come to an end. I doubt it will be more than a couple of decades
>> from
>> then that war returns to Europe.
>
> Support for the EU has risen among EU voters since Br*xit. If any of the
> far right parties got in and had an in-out [1] referendum, I think they
> would be disappointed.
>
> [1] and shake it all about

Support did rise, but that doesn't mean all is rosy.
Lots in Italy are Eurosceptic ATM, the Italian gov. rejected changes to
the eurozone rescue fund (agreeing to it would have been very unpopular
at the grass-roots level).

--
Sam Plusnet

>>
>> Support for the EU has risen among EU voters since Br*xit. If any of
>> the far right parties got in and had an in-out [1] referendum, I think
>> they would be disappointed.
>>
>> [1] and shake it all about
>
> Support did rise, but that doesn't mean all is rosy.
> Lots in Italy are Eurosceptic ATM, the Italian gov. rejected changes to
> the eurozone rescue fund (agreeing to it would have been very unpopular
> at the grass-roots level).
>

"support" in the UK may not need to rise.

It's estimated that something like 8 million Remain "supporters" failed
to vote in the 2016 referendum, which has led us to the situation we are
now in.

Apparently a depressingly large number of them didn't bother to vote
"because I live in a Leave area" :-\

However, none of this is of relevance as I don't think there's going to
be another referendum any time soon.

Abandoned Trolley wrote:

> I don't think there's going to be another referendum any time soon.

Brenda from Bristol will be relieved ...

On 09/01/2024 10:59, Tease'n'Seize wrote:
> Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>
>> I don't think there's going to be another referendum any time soon.
>
> Brenda from Bristol will be relieved ...

Mafeking is also relieved

On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 10:51:59 +0000
Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:

> However, none of this is of relevance as I don't think there's going to
> be another referendum any time soon.

There was a survey recently which concluded that a fairly large
majority thought Brexit was a mistake but also that a similarly large
majority didn't want to try and reverse it. Which is perhaps not surprising
the UK had one of the best deals in the EU with a good many special
provisions and exceptions (like keeping Sterling).

It seems very likely that if the UK were to ask to rejoin now they
would have to join the queue, go through the process and not get any
special deals.

The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo".

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 09/01/2024 in message
<20240109120039.342c5d510cb0f8544658b5b0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
wrote:

>The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
>to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo".

I disagree completely. I voted to leave and am delighter we did so. It's
very early days but we seem to be doing no worse than EU members, indeed
better than some, and we have weathered Covid and the inflation caused by
the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Captcha is thinking of stopping the use of pictures with traffic lights as
cyclists don't know what they are.

On 9 Jan 2024 14:29:12 GMT
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

> On 09/01/2024 in message
> <20240109120039.342c5d510cb0f8544658b5b0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> wrote:
>
> >The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
> >to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo".
>
> I disagree completely. I voted to leave and am delighter we did so. It's

Your privilege, and you may be right - but note I'm not saying it
just noting that it seemed to be the majority opinion as revealed by a
survey. Possibly mostly caused by the frustration that results from most
attempts to send things between the UK and the EU caused by customs charges
and the strange inability of Royal Mail to fill in electronic customs
declarations reliably (according to An Post employees) resulting in
packages being returned after a long delay.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 09/01/2024 in message
<20240109144743.b2333e2a321b6c149fe679a4@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
wrote:

>On 9 Jan 2024 14:29:12 GMT
>"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>>On 09/01/2024 in message
>><20240109120039.342c5d510cb0f8544658b5b0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>>wrote:
>>
>>>The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
>>>to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo".
>>
>>I disagree completely. I voted to leave and am delighter we did so. It's
>
> Your privilege, and you may be right - but note I'm not saying it
>just noting that it seemed to be the majority opinion as revealed by a
>survey. Possibly mostly caused by the frustration that results from most
>attempts to send things between the UK and the EU caused by customs charges
>and the strange inability of Royal Mail to fill in electronic customs
>declarations reliably (according to An Post employees) resulting in
>packages being returned after a long delay.

One of the issues may be there is nobody still working who remembers how
we did things before we joined the EEC. Getting visas, joining foreigners'
queues, the delights of carnets etc. We need to learn again.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant

> Your privilege, and you may be right - but note I'm not saying it
> just noting that it seemed to be the majority opinion as revealed by a
> survey. Possibly mostly caused by the frustration that results from most
> attempts to send things between the UK and the EU caused by customs charges
> and the strange inability of Royal Mail to fill in electronic customs
> declarations reliably (according to An Post employees) resulting in
> packages being returned after a long delay.
>
Some time before the referendum a "majority opinion as revealed by a
survey" suggested that the Remain camp would prevail.

Perhaps that led thm to decide not to vote ?

Also, the problems with postal delays to and from the EU dont seem to
apply to imports from China or Japan - I wonder why that is.

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

> On 09/01/2024 in message
> <20240109120039.342c5d510cb0f8544658b5b0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> wrote:
>
> >The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
> >to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo".
> >
>
> I disagree completely. I voted to leave and am delighter we did so. It's
> very early days but we seem to be doing no worse than EU members, indeed
> better than some, and we have weathered Covid and the inflation caused by
> the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
>

I concur.

Alas, I was [ahem] previously advised that Oerkvg was a dirty word
unfit for advocacy by any right-thinking Shedi. That's water under
the bridge now though, and TFFT.

IMHO sleeping dogs are best not poked with pointy sticks, but then
I kno nuffink. [shrug]

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 15:11:59 +0000
Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:

> Some time before the referendum a "majority opinion as revealed by a
> survey" suggested that the Remain camp would prevail.
>
> Perhaps that led thm to decide not to vote ?

Some at the time said it caused them to vote leave because they
"knew" it wouldn't happen - lbooyd eejits.

> Also, the problems with postal delays to and from the EU dont seem to
> apply to imports from China or Japan - I wonder why that is.

I'm not sure how bad the problem is going into the UK apart from
customs and VAT charges which came as a surprise to some and which get
applied when they shouldn't (I sent a few things my daughter had left
behind to her in the UK including an old Switch and an old Gameboy - UK
customs insisted on charging VAT as for new ones - so they got sent back and
I will carry them over next time I visit).

It is possible that the Royal Mail's problem with filling in the
electronic customs declaration only applies to Ireland as it isn't needed
for Northern Ireland and many in the UK see Ireland and assume the North
(I've lost count of the number of times I've heard things along the lines
of "Oh is that in Southern Ireland?").

Either way when the horse passport currently stuck in Dublin
awaiting return to the UK[1] finally gets back it's being sent by courier
(DHL most likely) and not by Royal Mail.

[1] All the information is on the form stuck to the envelope but that
cannot be used apparently (yes Irish customs are being prats too).

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 09-Jan-24 12:00, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 10:51:59 +0000
> Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> However, none of this is of relevance as I don't think there's going to
>> be another referendum any time soon.
>
> There was a survey recently which concluded that a fairly large
> majority thought Brexit was a mistake but also that a similarly large
> majority didn't want to try and reverse it. Which is perhaps not surprising
> the UK had one of the best deals in the EU with a good many special
> provisions and exceptions (like keeping Sterling).
>
> It seems very likely that if the UK were to ask to rejoin now they
> would have to join the queue, go through the process and not get any
> special deals.
>
> The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
> to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo".
>
Quite. How many EU countries would be willing to accept a new
application from a country which has behaved like a five-year-old in
full tantrum mode?

--
Sam Plusnet

In article <unj9rl$1vrqf$1@dont-email.me>, Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-
smith.co.uk> on Tue, 9 Jan 2024 at 11:15:02 awoke Nicholas from his
slumbers and wrote
>On 09/01/2024 10:59, Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>> Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think there's going to be another referendum any time soon.
>>
>> Brenda from Bristol will be relieved ...
>
>
>Mafeking is also relieved

But has LadySmith been relieved yet?
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

In article <L5hnN.113937$vFZa.100898@fx13.iad>, Sam Plusnet
<not@home.com> on Tue, 9 Jan 2024 at 19:26:35 awoke Nicholas from his
slumbers and wrote
>On 09-Jan-24 12:00, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 10:51:59 +0000
>> Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> However, none of this is of relevance as I don't think there's going to
>>> be another referendum any time soon.
>>
>> There was a survey recently which concluded that a fairly large
>> majority thought Brexit was a mistake but also that a similarly large
>> majority didn't want to try and reverse it. Which is perhaps not surprising
>> the UK had one of the best deals in the EU with a good many special
>> provisions and exceptions (like keeping Sterling).
>>
>> It seems very likely that if the UK were to ask to rejoin now they
>> would have to join the queue, go through the process and not get any
>> special deals.
>>
>> The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
>> to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo".
>>
>Quite. How many EU countries would be willing to accept a new
>application from a country which has behaved like a five-year-old in
>full tantrum mode?
>
I'll bite. The EU seems to score quite high on the five old tantrum
strop. 'We will stop your supplies of vaccines" comes to mind.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

> I'll bite. The EU seems to score quite high on the five old tantrum
> strop. 'We will stop your supplies of vaccines" comes to mind.

Along with "we will prohibit a hard border in the Irish mainland" ?

On 09-Jan-24 21:10, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <L5hnN.113937$vFZa.100898@fx13.iad>, Sam Plusnet
> <not@home.com> on Tue, 9 Jan 2024 at 19:26:35 awoke Nicholas from his
> slumbers and wrote
>> On 09-Jan-24 12:00, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 10:51:59 +0000
>>> Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> However, none of this is of relevance as I don't think there's going to
>>>> be another referendum any time soon.
>>>
>>> There was a survey recently which concluded that a fairly large
>>> majority thought Brexit was a mistake but also that a similarly large
>>> majority didn't want to try and reverse it. Which is perhaps not surprising
>>> the UK had one of the best deals in the EU with a good many special
>>> provisions and exceptions (like keeping Sterling).
>>>
>>> It seems very likely that if the UK were to ask to rejoin now they
>>> would have to join the queue, go through the process and not get any
>>> special deals.
>>>
>>> The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
>>> to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo".
>>>
>> Quite. How many EU countries would be willing to accept a new
>> application from a country which has behaved like a five-year-old in
>> full tantrum mode?
>>
> I'll bite. The EU seems to score quite high on the five old tantrum
> strop. 'We will stop your supplies of vaccines" comes to mind.

Perhaps you forgot what lead to that.
(Hint: It involved Boris Johnson.)

--
Sam Plusnet

On 09/01/2024 12:00, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 10:51:59 +0000
> Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> However, none of this is of relevance as I don't think there's going to
>> be another referendum any time soon.
>
> There was a survey recently which concluded that a fairly large
> majority thought Brexit was a mistake but also that a similarly large
> majority didn't want to try and reverse it. Which is perhaps not surprising
> the UK had one of the best deals in the EU with a good many special
> provisions and exceptions (like keeping Sterling).

The most recent one I've seen says that Brexit was a bad idea and we
should rejoin.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48260-four-years-after-brexit-what-future-forms-of-relationship-with-the-eu-would-britons-support

On 09/01/2024 22:33, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>
>> I'll bite. The EU seems to score quite high on the five old tantrum
>> strop. 'We will stop your supplies of vaccines" comes to mind.
>
> Along with "we will prohibit a hard border in the Irish mainland" ?

That's not the EU, that's the GFA.

On 09/01/2024 21:03, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <unj9rl$1vrqf$1@dont-email.me>, Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-
> smith.co.uk> on Tue, 9 Jan 2024 at 11:15:02 awoke Nicholas from his
> slumbers and wrote
>> On 09/01/2024 10:59, Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>>> Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't think there's going to be another referendum any time soon.
>>>
>>> Brenda from Bristol will be relieved ...
>>
>>
>> Mafeking is also relieved
>
> But has LadySmith been relieved yet?

She seemed contented last time I visited.

Tone

On Wed, 10 Jan 2024 01:16:05 +0000
Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:

> On 09/01/2024 22:33, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
> >
> >> I'll bite. The EU seems to score quite high on the five old tantrum
> >> strop. 'We will stop your supplies of vaccines" comes to mind.
> >
> > Along with "we will prohibit a hard border in the Irish mainland" ?
>
> That's not the EU, that's the GFA.

To which the UK are signatories.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 09/01/2024 12:00, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
> to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo^W^W^W^W^W^W^W
chg hc jvgu gur pbafgnag juvatvat bs gur fnq puvyqera pelvat obb ubb
orpnhfr gurl pna abg npprcg qrsrng".
>

--
Nev
It causes me a great deal of regret and remorse
that so many people are unable to understand what I write.