>>
>> And while nobody was looking, there have been more than 100,000 local
>> exclusions and exceptions granted, mostly for food items like local
>> wines and cheese and (curiously) bananas
>
> Bent bananas or straight ones?
>

No idea.

I learned about this when I spent a few years working in Germany.

Apparently they have a "special relationship" with the Dominican
Republic (as well as Mexico) and as a result, bananas entering the EU
and destined for the German market attract a lower rate (or no rate) of
import duty. It is believed that "banana smuggling" is fairly common
throughout the bloc.

On 25/01/2024 00:18, Mike Fleming wrote:

> The UK has simply put itself in the situation of being a non-EU country,
> so the EU trades with it exactly as it would any other non-EU countries
> with which it doesn't have special arrangements, as per WTO rules.

As was the stated aim of our Gibberment at the time "No deal is better
than a poor deal"

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 25/01/2024 01:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 25-Jan-24 0:13, Mike Fleming wrote:
>> On 24/01/2024 09:49, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024, Znep wrote:
>>>
>>>> In uk.rec.sheds, (Jeff Gaines) wrote in
>>>> <xn0ogmht1rewfcp002@news.individual.net>::
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/01/2024 in message
>>>>> <20240109120039.342c5d510cb0f8544658b5b0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's
>>>>> Shot
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
>>>>>> to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo".
>>>>>
>>>>> I disagree completely. I voted to leave and am delighter we did so.
>>>>> It's
>>>>> very early days but we seem to be doing no worse than EU members,
>>>>> indeed
>>>>> better than some, and we have weathered Covid and the inflation
>>>>> caused by
>>>>> the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
>>>>
>>>> My mileage varies, as the leftpondians say.
>>>>
>>>> It's cost me a quarter mil in lost contract, it's totally buggered my
>>>> daughter's plans to move to France, and I've not seen a single benefit
>>>> to us.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But from a global point of view, it's a great benefit. EU is a
>>> socialist and authoritarian experiment with a severe democracy
>>> deficit. UK showed that it is in fact possible to break free, and I
>>> hope many more countries will do in the coming decades.
>>
>> What democracy deficit?
>>
>> What the UK has showed that it's possible to completely fuck up trade
>> with your closest trading partner, get shot of immigrants who were
>> providing valuable services, all for the imagined sovereignty whims of
>> a load of stupid racist old phags. I hope for a speedy rejoining.
>
> Imagine you are a rational citizen of an EU country.
> UK asks to rejoin.
> Your answer?
>
The polite version is "Hell, no!"

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>
>> What is the currency in use in Czechia ?
>
> They are in the process of adopting the Euro - the rules require
> adoption of the Euro but do not mandate a timescale for doing so, it
> is expected to take a number of years as first the convergence
> criteria must be reached

Have they got a large state-owned electricity generator they could
sell-off? That tipped the balance for France ...

On 2024-01-24, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
> while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
>
> --8323328-29662600-1706109820=:3213
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
>
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 13:46:29 +0000
>> snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:
>>
>>> What a shame it is that the affronted Europeans put so many barriers
>>> in the way of free trade between us Brits and your lot. Could it have
>>
>> =09My daughter is in the UK for college and wanted some odds and ends
>> she'd left behind including an old Gameboy and Nintendo Switch. Thinking
>> nothing of it I boxed up everything she'd asked for and popped it in the
>> post. She got a letter from HM Customs and Excise demanding around =C2=A3=
> 80
>> because they'd decided the games had to be new and wouldn't accept that
>> they weren't. They're back here now and I'll carry them over with me next
>> time I visit.
>>
>>> been pour encourager les autres and to dissuade others from following
>>> our example?
>>
>> =09The delays and charges are *both* ways imposed by *both* sides,
>> something to do with the UK not negotiating any kind of trade deal with t=
> he
>> EU.
>>
>> =09The EU did not put any trade barriers in the way, the UK chose to
>> fall back to WTO rules when the EU stuck to their long stated principle
>> that the four freedoms of movement enjoyed by EU members are inseparable.
>>
>>
>
> Yet, the "four freedoms" are hardly respected inside the EU. My opinion is=
>=20
> that the EU wants to get back at the UK for daring to leave the socialist=
>=20
> machine, and that's why.
>
> In terms of four freedoms, there's plenty of price protection, subsidies,=
>=20
> legal excemptions etc. going on all over the place to make a joke out of=20
> those.
>
> I do business between 3 EU countries and the US and I'd say it's about an=
>=20
> equal amount of BS among them. However... do note that I'm in IT and=20
> electrons are easy to move so I am sure that someone selling physical=20
> goods has a completely different perspective.
> --8323328-29662600-1706109820=:3213--

When Brexit happened the "British" supermarkets ran out of most
popular lines and it took ages to restock. Prices went up and a lot of
people gave up and switched to other products.

Personally I miss Greggs sausage rolls, but have learned to make a
good version at home. :-)

This is Costa Blanca, Spain.
--
Simon

RLU: 222126

>
> They are in the process of adopting the Euro - the rules require
> adoption of the Euro but do not mandate a timescale for doing so, it is
> expected to take a number of years as first the convergence criteria must
> be reached, it took Croatia ten years to achieve them and join the Euro.
> The UK's economy is almost certainly strong enough to reach them quickly.
>
> Before Brexit the UK had an exception permitting them to retain
> Sterling indefinitely, I very much doubt they would be granted one if they
> asked to rejoin. Currently Denmark is the only country with an exception,
> like the UK they've been in the EU since 1973 and negotiated an opt out
> when the Euro was introduced.
>

How did Italy manage to meet the criteria ?

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 11:35:39 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> Why? In a free market, everyone wins as proven by Johan Norbergs modern
> classic The Capitalist Manifesto.

That book does not prove anything any more than Mein Kampf or The
Communist Manifesto do. All of these books are the opinions of the authors
nothing more or less.

As for "everyone wins" watch "The Spider's Web: Britain's Second
Empire" then tell us how everyone wins. Also ask yourself whether Brexit
might in part have been a response to the possibility of a European banking
union opening the books of the square mile.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 11:21:18 +0000
Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:

> How did Italy manage to meet the criteria ?

Probably the same way Greece did - by telling porkies and getting
away with it.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

On 25/01/2024 12:24, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 11:21:18 +0000
> Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> How did Italy manage to meet the criteria ?
>
> Probably the same way Greece did - by telling porkies and getting
> away with it.
>

Possibly the foundation stone of the EU :-\

Abandoned Trolley said:
>
>> Join the queue, these are the conditions (one of them being the
>> Euro).
>
> What is the currency in use in Czechia ?

Properly speaking, it should be the Cheque.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

D said:
>
> Why? In a free market, everyone wins as proven by Johan Norbergs modern
> classic The Capitalist Manifesto.

So the idea would have to be abandoned as disproved if anybody could
point to one single loser ?

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Simon said:
>
> Personally I miss Greggs sausage rolls, but have learned to make a
> good version at home. :-)
>
> This is Costa Blanca, Spain.

You won't have met their "vegan sausage rolls" then ? They're good.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 11:35:39 +0100
> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> Why? In a free market, everyone wins as proven by Johan Norbergs modern
>> classic The Capitalist Manifesto.
>
> That book does not prove anything any more than Mein Kampf or The
> Communist Manifesto do. All of these books are the opinions of the authors
> nothing more or less.
>

Why not? Upon reading it I think it did a pretty good job of proving it.
Could you provide me with the chapter or pages you think proof is
lacking?

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 14:00:52 -0000 (UTC)
Richard Robinson <richard@qualmograph.org.uk> wrote:

> You won't have met their "vegan sausage rolls" then ? They're good.

Yes they are, better than their meat ones ever were.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 15:29:42 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 11:35:39 +0100
> > D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Why? In a free market, everyone wins as proven by Johan Norbergs modern
> >> classic The Capitalist Manifesto.
> >
> > That book does not prove anything any more than Mein Kampf or
> > The Communist Manifesto do. All of these books are the opinions of the
> > authors nothing more or less.
> >
> Why not? Upon reading it I think it did a pretty good job of proving it.
> Could you provide me with the chapter or pages you think proof is
> lacking?

The entire book, and that without reading it. Political theory is
not something that can be proven - not without experiments and controls so
take two identical populations organise one as per this book and another as
per Marx's book keep all external conditions identical and come back in a
couple of centuries. Then and ONLY THEN will there be proof. This is of
course impossible - all political theory is nothing more than guesswork.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

>>>> Why? In a free market, everyone wins as proven by Johan Norbergs modern
>>>> classic The Capitalist Manifesto.
>>>
>>> That book does not prove anything any more than Mein Kampf or
>>> The Communist Manifesto do. All of these books are the opinions of the
>>> authors nothing more or less.
>>>
>> Why not? Upon reading it I think it did a pretty good job of proving it.
>> Could you provide me with the chapter or pages you think proof is
>> lacking?
>
> The entire book, and that without reading it. Political theory is
> not something that can be proven - not without experiments and controls so
> take two identical populations organise one as per this book and another as
> per Marx's book keep all external conditions identical and come back in a
> couple of centuries. Then and ONLY THEN will there be proof. This is of
> course impossible - all political theory is nothing more than guesswork.
>

A famous half-quote from Karl Marx is something along the lines of :
"Workers of the world unite - you have nothing to lose but your chains"

But it occurs to me that an updated and more accurate version might be
something like:

"Workers of the world unite, and together you will form a workforce with
an aggregate capacity far in excess of any workload which might come
your way - and automation, mechanisation and AI are shrinking that
workload with each passing day.

In other words, there are not, and never will be enough decent jobs to
go round, so the global trend in labour costs is heading south – and has
been doing so for decades.

The “robber barons of the bourgeoisie” (as I believe Marx called them)
think that this process needs to be accelerated and so they manipulate
the market in human flesh in the same way that the markets in petrol,
milk, cream and New Zealand lamb are manipulated.

So, if you are at the bottom of the stack and one of the commodities in
a manipulated market then your prospects may not be so good.
So my opinion (and that’s all this is) is that in a free market NOT
everybody wins

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 16:23:57 +0000
Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:

> So, if you are at the bottom of the stack and one of the commodities in
> a manipulated market then your prospects may not be so good.
> So my opinion (and that’s all this is) is that in a free market NOT
> everybody wins

One thing is for sure nothing tried to date has resulted in
everybody winning, one could be forgiven for suspecting that there are no
conditions under which everybody wins.

The social credit system described in Heinlein's "For us the
Living" based on C. H. Douglas's ideas looks to be one in which nobody
loses but nothing like it has ever been tried and I suspect it may fail
horribly in unexpected ways that boil down to "things ain't that simple".

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

On 2024-01-25, maus <maus@deb2.org> wrote:
> On 2024-01-25, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> On 25-Jan-24 0:13, Mike Fleming wrote:
>>> On 24/01/2024 09:49, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024, Znep wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In uk.rec.sheds,  (Jeff Gaines) wrote in
>>>>> <xn0ogmht1rewfcp002@news.individual.net>::
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 09/01/2024 in message
>>>>>> <20240109120039.342c5d510cb0f8544658b5b0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's
>>>>>> Shot
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
>>>>>>> to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I disagree completely. I voted to leave and am delighter we did so.
>>>>>> It's
>>>>>> very early days but we seem to be doing no worse than EU members,
>>>>>> indeed
>>>>>> better than some, and we have weathered Covid and the inflation
>>>>>> caused by
>>>>>> the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
>>>>>
>>>>> My mileage varies, as the leftpondians say.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's cost me a quarter mil in lost contract, it's totally buggered my
>>>>> daughter's plans to move to France, and I've not seen a single benefit
>>>>> to us.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But from a global point of view, it's a great benefit. EU is a
>>>> socialist and authoritarian experiment with a severe democracy
>>>> deficit. UK showed that it is in fact possible to break free, and I
>>>> hope many more countries will do in the coming decades.
>>>
>>> What democracy deficit?
>>>
>>> What the UK has showed that it's possible to completely fuck up trade
>>> with your closest trading partner, get shot of immigrants who were
>>> providing valuable services, all for the imagined sovereignty whims of a
>>> load of stupid racist old phags. I hope for a speedy rejoining.
>>
>> Imagine you are a rational citizen of an EU country.
>> UK asks to rejoin.
>> Your answer?
>>
>
> The EU needs to be more democratic.
>
> The US was thought to be a setup to be copied, but that was spurious,
> most american communities are better mixed than European ones. If the EU
> is going to last, it would have to allow more national diversity.
>
Just been thinking. The US had no real way of getting a POTUS to resign,
if he goes Gaga, and that had happened three times in around a century,
Woodrow Wilson, Ronald REagan, and joe Biden. Someone should think of
some way of dealinng with that problem.

--
greymausg@mail.com
Is There not even an .Influencer to impale?
Charles I, beheaded, Charles II, killed by doctors, What is happen to Chuck III?

On 2024-01-25, Richard Robinson <richard@qualmograph.org.uk> wrote:
> Abandoned Trolley said:
>>
>>> Join the queue, these are the conditions (one of them being the
>>> Euro).
>>
>> What is the currency in use in Czechia ?
>
> Properly speaking, it should be the Cheque.
>

Or, in memory of Ghislan's Father, "The Bouncing Cheque"

--
greymausg@mail.com
Is There not even an .Influencer to impale?
Charles I, beheaded, Charles II, killed by doctors, What is happen to Chuck III?

In article <slrnur56ta.lhv.maus@deb2.org>, maus <maus@deb2.org> on Thu,
25 Jan 2024 at 17:34:34 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On 2024-01-25, maus <maus@deb2.org> wrote:
>> On 2024-01-25, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>> On 25-Jan-24 0:13, Mike Fleming wrote:
>>>> On 24/01/2024 09:49, D wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024, Znep wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In uk.rec.sheds,  (Jeff Gaines) wrote in
>>>>>> <xn0ogmht1rewfcp002@news.individual.net>::
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 09/01/2024 in message
>>>>>>> <20240109120039.342c5d510cb0f8544658b5b0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's
>>>>>>> Shot
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
>>>>>>>> to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I disagree completely. I voted to leave and am delighter we did so.
>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>> very early days but we seem to be doing no worse than EU members,
>>>>>>> indeed
>>>>>>> better than some, and we have weathered Covid and the inflation
>>>>>>> caused by
>>>>>>> the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My mileage varies, as the leftpondians say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's cost me a quarter mil in lost contract, it's totally buggered my
>>>>>> daughter's plans to move to France, and I've not seen a single benefit
>>>>>> to us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But from a global point of view, it's a great benefit. EU is a
>>>>> socialist and authoritarian experiment with a severe democracy
>>>>> deficit. UK showed that it is in fact possible to break free, and I
>>>>> hope many more countries will do in the coming decades.
>>>>
>>>> What democracy deficit?
>>>>
>>>> What the UK has showed that it's possible to completely fuck up trade
>>>> with your closest trading partner, get shot of immigrants who were
>>>> providing valuable services, all for the imagined sovereignty whims of a
>>>> load of stupid racist old phags. I hope for a speedy rejoining.
>>>
>>> Imagine you are a rational citizen of an EU country.
>>> UK asks to rejoin.
>>> Your answer?
>>>
>>
>> The EU needs to be more democratic.
>>
>> The US was thought to be a setup to be copied, but that was spurious,
>> most american communities are better mixed than European ones. If the EU
>> is going to last, it would have to allow more national diversity.
>>
>Just been thinking. The US had no real way of getting a POTUS to resign,
>if he goes Gaga, and that had happened three times in around a century,
>Woodrow Wilson, Ronald REagan, and joe Biden. Someone should think of
>some way of dealinng with that problem.
>
Your evidence for Joe Biden?

Woodrow Wilson was incapacitated by a stroke, not dementia.

Trump, besides having psychopathic tendencies cannot remember, possibly
when it suites him.

--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 15:29:42 +0100
> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 11:35:39 +0100
>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why? In a free market, everyone wins as proven by Johan Norbergs modern
>>>> classic The Capitalist Manifesto.
>>>
>>> That book does not prove anything any more than Mein Kampf or
>>> The Communist Manifesto do. All of these books are the opinions of the
>>> authors nothing more or less.
>>>
>> Why not? Upon reading it I think it did a pretty good job of proving it.
>> Could you provide me with the chapter or pages you think proof is
>> lacking?
>
> The entire book, and that without reading it. Political theory is
> not something that can be proven - not without experiments and controls so
> take two identical populations organise one as per this book and another as
> per Marx's book keep all external conditions identical and come back in a
> couple of centuries. Then and ONLY THEN will there be proof. This is of
> course impossible - all political theory is nothing more than guesswork.

Ahh you see... that is where you already went wrong. It is about
capitalism, not about politics. Capitalism basically says, and this is
proven, that if we want a system that gives each of us as much as humanly
possible of material wealth, it is the only system.

Of course, is you want people to have less, then I can understand that you
are against capitalism.

But statistics speaks its undeniable language, the world and its entire
population has gained in every way by adopting capitalism in varying
degrees, and the nations that don't suffer (except their politicians).

So read the book. It will change your life and make you leave socialism
behind. =)

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024, Abandoned Trolley wrote:

>
>>>>> Why? In a free market, everyone wins as proven by Johan Norbergs modern
>>>>> classic The Capitalist Manifesto.
>>>>
>>>> That book does not prove anything any more than Mein Kampf or
>>>> The Communist Manifesto do. All of these books are the opinions of the
>>>> authors nothing more or less.
>>>>
>>> Why not? Upon reading it I think it did a pretty good job of proving it.
>>> Could you provide me with the chapter or pages you think proof is
>>> lacking?
>>
>> The entire book, and that without reading it. Political theory is
>> not something that can be proven - not without experiments and controls so
>> take two identical populations organise one as per this book and another as
>> per Marx's book keep all external conditions identical and come back in a
>> couple of centuries. Then and ONLY THEN will there be proof. This is of
>> course impossible - all political theory is nothing more than guesswork.
>>
>
> A famous half-quote from Karl Marx is something along the lines of :
> "Workers of the world unite - you have nothing to lose but your chains"
>
> But it occurs to me that an updated and more accurate version might be
> something like:
>
> "Workers of the world unite, and together you will form a workforce with an
> aggregate capacity far in excess of any workload which might come your way -
> and automation, mechanisation and AI are shrinking that workload with each
> passing day.
>
> In other words, there are not, and never will be enough decent jobs to go
> round, so the global trend in labour costs is heading south – and has been
> doing so for decades.
>
> The “robber barons of the bourgeoisie” (as I believe Marx called them) think
> that this process needs to be accelerated and so they manipulate the market
> in human flesh in the same way that the markets in petrol, milk, cream and
> New Zealand lamb are manipulated.
>
> So, if you are at the bottom of the stack and one of the commodities in a
> manipulated market then your prospects may not be so good.
> So my opinion (and that’s all this is) is that in a free market NOT everybody
> wins

Over time everybody wins. Thank to trickle down, even africa gains when
europe and US has a surplus.

I know it is hard to accept, and not as sexy as socialism which works by
dividing people into groups and making them hate each other, but
capitalism and free markets is the only way.

On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 20:15:15 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>

> > The entire book, and that without reading it. Political theory
> > is not something that can be proven - not without experiments and
> > controls so take two identical populations organise one as per this
> > book and another as per Marx's book keep all external conditions
> > identical and come back in a couple of centuries. Then and ONLY THEN
> > will there be proof. This is of course impossible - all political
> > theory is nothing more than guesswork.
>
> Ahh you see... that is where you already went wrong. It is about
> capitalism, not about politics. Capitalism basically says, and this is
> proven, that if we want a system that gives each of us as much as humanly
> possible of material wealth, it is the only system.

You have a very different standard of proof to me. That is not
proven and CANNOT be proven. Neither can socialist theory or any other
theory about politics, economics or anything of the kind. Even theories
about physics cannot be proven but at least they can be tested, these
theories cannot even be tested.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

>
> Over time everybody wins. Thank to trickle down, even africa gains when
> europe and US has a surplus.
>
> I know it is hard to accept, and not as sexy as socialism which works by
> dividing people into groups and making them hate each other, but
> capitalism and free markets is the only way.

And even harder to prove.

"Trickle down" is the one thing that the ruling classes want to avoid
like the plague

Perhaps you could tell us exactly what you mean by "in time" ?

As far as I can see we are up to our arses in debt and borrowing more
money every day. If thats your idea of prosperity then give me back my
post war poverty any day - at least we didn't need food banks.

btw - there was never anything "sexy" about socialism

On 2024-01-25, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnur56ta.lhv.maus@deb2.org>, maus <maus@deb2.org> on Thu,
> 25 Jan 2024 at 17:34:34 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>On 2024-01-25, maus <maus@deb2.org> wrote:
>>> On 2024-01-25, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>> On 25-Jan-24 0:13, Mike Fleming wrote:
>>>>> On 24/01/2024 09:49, D wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024, Znep wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In uk.rec.sheds,  (Jeff Gaines) wrote in
>>>>>>> <xn0ogmht1rewfcp002@news.individual.net>::
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 09/01/2024 in message
>>>>>>>> <20240109120039.342c5d510cb0f8544658b5b0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's
>>>>>>>> Shot
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The long and short seemed to be, "It was a mistake and now we have
>>>>>>>>> to live with it and make the best of a bad wbo".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I disagree completely. I voted to leave and am delighter we did so.
>>>> UK asks to rejoin.
>>>> Your answer?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The EU needs to be more democratic.
>>>
>>> The US was thought to be a setup to be copied, but that was spurious,
>>> most american communities are better mixed than European ones. If the EU
>>> is going to last, it would have to allow more national diversity.
>>>
>>Just been thinking. The US had no real way of getting a POTUS to resign,
>>if he goes Gaga, and that had happened three times in around a century,
>>Woodrow Wilson, Ronald REagan, and joe Biden. Someone should think of
>>some way of dealinng with that problem.
>>
> Your evidence for Joe Bidena

Listening to him for >1 second
>
> Woodrow Wilson was incapacitated by a stroke, not dementia.

Still gaga
>
> Trump, besides having psychopathic tendencies cannot remember, possibly
> when it suites him.
>
The once and future King.

--
greymausg@mail.com
Is There not even an .Influencer to impale?
Charles I, beheaded, Charles II, killed by doctors, What is happen to Chuck III?