On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 19:49:46 +0000
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 14:56:19 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>>Fun fact - human stomach acid is almost as strong as that of vultures and
>>way stronger than all the other apes and most mammals. Presumably we did our
>>own scavanging back in the day.
>>
>Maybe more to do with being an omnivore? One creature's indigestible
>food can be another's tasty snack.

Chimps are omnivores too.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 19/03/2024 19:45, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>> Predators usually don't eat perished prey.  Large scavengers like
>>>> Vultures are rare in the UK.
>>>>
>>> Plenty of other scavengers, various members of the corvid family for
>>> example.
>>>
>> Plus red kites who in past centuries used to take care of edible
>> rubbish in towns.
>
> We appear to have 2 nesting pairs of red kites around here. The local
> kids get very excited when they see them while going to school.
>

They are fairly well established now in much of Southern England since they
were reintroduced
back in the 1990’s, possibly too successfully. Magnificent as they are to
see there is only a certain amount of natural food and habitat and their
presence may now be having a detrimental effect
on other birds which themselves are no longer common.
There are also reported instances of Kites taking a nod from Seagulls and
swooping on people swiping the sausage roll they were about to consume from
their hand or plates in a violent manner ,
but as it happens to Toffs in Henley on Thames reaction has been less than
sympathetic.

GH

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 19:51:29 +0000
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 09:19:44 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>>Also using your rationale it could start a fire in the tunnel so there's even
>>more reason for getting the train out of it.
>>
>If it is ahead of you then you don't leave the current platform.

Sure, but they weren't in the platform they were in a tunnel. And the dimwit
at the controls killed the power stranding everyone. If she's a representative
example of the kind of morons they're hiring to drive then it explains a lot
about the woeful service these days. I wouldn't put her in charge of a transit
van never mind a 150 ton train with 200 passengers on board.

In message <ute9u4$1dnn2$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:23:16 on Wed, 20 Mar
2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 16:39:31 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <utc8tr$smnq$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:53:47 on Tue, 19 Mar
>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on rotting food in
>>>bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier
>>>digestive system than their country cousins.
>>
>>Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>
>Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?

I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
conveniently forget?

>Roland, are you sure you're ok? You seem to be having basic comprehension
>problems.

I'm afraid you are the one who might not be OK, and are definitely
having severe comprehension problems.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 09:26:54 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <ute9u4$1dnn2$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:23:16 on Wed, 20 Mar
>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 16:39:31 +0000
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <utc8tr$smnq$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:53:47 on Tue, 19 Mar
>>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on rotting food in
>>>>bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier
>>>>digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>
>>>Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>
>>Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>
>I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>conveniently forget?

I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because you haven't
seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If they can survive in
urban areas they can survive in the fens.

On 20/03/2024 09:24, Marland wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 19/03/2024 19:45, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>> Predators usually don't eat perished prey.  Large scavengers like
>>>>> Vultures are rare in the UK.
>>>>>
>>>> Plenty of other scavengers, various members of the corvid family for
>>>> example.
>>>>
>>> Plus red kites who in past centuries used to take care of edible
>>> rubbish in towns.
>>
>> We appear to have 2 nesting pairs of red kites around here. The local
>> kids get very excited when they see them while going to school.
>>
>
> They are fairly well established now in much of Southern England since they
> were reintroduced
> back in the 1990’s, possibly too successfully. Magnificent as they are to
> see there is only a certain amount of natural food and habitat and their
> presence may now be having a detrimental effect
> on other birds which themselves are no longer common.
> There are also reported instances of Kites taking a nod from Seagulls and
> swooping on people swiping the sausage roll they were about to consume from
> their hand or plates in a violent manner ,
> but as it happens to Toffs in Henley on Thames reaction has been less than
> sympathetic.
>

We still seem to have a good variety of birds round here, especially
great tits (stop sniggering at the back), magpies and various species of
corvid. The main road up to me has service roads each side with well
established hedges separating them from the main carriageway. In the
spring these are roosts for literally hundreds, if not thousands, of
sparrows. And, of course, the inevitable wood pigeons are everywhere.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 20/03/2024 09:24, Marland wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 19/03/2024 19:45, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>>> Predators usually don't eat perished prey.  Large scavengers like
>>>>>> Vultures are rare in the UK.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Plenty of other scavengers, various members of the corvid family for
>>>>> example.
>>>>>
>>>> Plus red kites who in past centuries used to take care of edible
>>>> rubbish in towns.
>>>
>>> We appear to have 2 nesting pairs of red kites around here. The local
>>> kids get very excited when they see them while going to school.
>>>
>>
>> They are fairly well established now in much of Southern England since they
>> were reintroduced
>> back in the 1990’s, possibly too successfully. Magnificent as they are to
>> see there is only a certain amount of natural food and habitat and their
>> presence may now be having a detrimental effect
>> on other birds which themselves are no longer common.
>> There are also reported instances of Kites taking a nod from Seagulls and
>> swooping on people swiping the sausage roll they were about to consume from
>> their hand or plates in a violent manner ,
>> but as it happens to Toffs in Henley on Thames reaction has been less than
>> sympathetic.
>>
>
> We still seem to have a good variety of birds round here, especially
> great tits (stop sniggering at the back), magpies and various species of
> corvid. The main road up to me has service roads each side with well
> established hedges separating them from the main carriageway. In the
> spring these are roosts for literally hundreds, if not thousands, of
> sparrows. And, of course, the inevitable wood pigeons are everywhere.
>

Largely though those smaller birds won’t be in competition with the Kites
as much of their diet is seed or small insect based much of it now
sourced from peoples garden bird feeders,its the other raptors like
Harriers ,Kestrels, Buzzards and too an extent Owls that the Kites
presence affects. Our first residential Kites settled here about two
years ago, aerial battles with the longer established Buzzards are now
common and the Kites being bigger will usually win . There are only so many
suitable nesting sites around and prey such as Rabbits so there is the risk
that in a few years the sight of a Kite will be common but the others will
nave disappeared.

GH

On 20 Mar 2024 10:18:03 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>years ago, aerial battles with the longer established Buzzards are now
>common and the Kites being bigger will usually win . There are only so many

Kites occasionally make the mistake of flying around here however the local crow
gang soon make sure they head out of the area pdq. Urban crows take no
prisoners.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On 20 Mar 2024 10:18:03 GMT
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> years ago, aerial battles with the longer established Buzzards are now
>> common and the Kites being bigger will usually win . There are only so many
>
> Kites occasionally make the mistake of flying around here however the local crow
> gang soon make sure they head out of the area pdq. Urban crows take no
> prisoners.
>
>

Probably dealing in drugs as well.

GH

On 20 Mar 2024 10:25:59 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On 20 Mar 2024 10:18:03 GMT
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> years ago, aerial battles with the longer established Buzzards are now
>>> common and the Kites being bigger will usually win . There are only so many
>>
>> Kites occasionally make the mistake of flying around here however the local
>crow
>> gang soon make sure they head out of the area pdq. Urban crows take no
>> prisoners.
>>
>>
>
>Probably dealing in drugs as well.

They do seem to be strangely absent when the plod chopper is in the area.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On 20 Mar 2024 10:25:59 GMT
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On 20 Mar 2024 10:18:03 GMT
>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> years ago, aerial battles with the longer established Buzzards are now
>>>> common and the Kites being bigger will usually win . There are only so many
>>>
>>> Kites occasionally make the mistake of flying around here however the local
>> crow
>>> gang soon make sure they head out of the area pdq. Urban crows take no
>>> prisoners.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Probably dealing in drugs as well.
>
> They do seem to be strangely absent when the plod chopper is in the area.
>
>
>

That will be after the. c Rooks..

Actually if there is a flock it is usually Rooks , Crows are more solitary.

GH

On 20 Mar 2024 10:42:43 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On 20 Mar 2024 10:25:59 GMT
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On 20 Mar 2024 10:18:03 GMT
>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> years ago, aerial battles with the longer established Buzzards are now
>>>>> common and the Kites being bigger will usually win . There are only so
>many
>>>>
>>>> Kites occasionally make the mistake of flying around here however the local
>
>>> crow
>>>> gang soon make sure they head out of the area pdq. Urban crows take no
>>>> prisoners.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Probably dealing in drugs as well.
>>
>> They do seem to be strangely absent when the plod chopper is in the area.
>>
>>
>>
>
>That will be after the. c Rooks..
>
>
>
>Actually if there is a flock it is usually Rooks , Crows are more solitary.

Possibly, no idea. Quite often there's 10 to 20 of them sitting in a
nearby tree.

In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 09:26:54 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <ute9u4$1dnn2$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:23:16 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 16:39:31 +0000
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>In message <utc8tr$smnq$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:53:47 on Tue, 19 Mar
>>>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on rotting food in
>>>>>bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier
>>>>>digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>
>>>>Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>
>>>Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>
>>I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>conveniently forget?
>
>I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because you haven't
>seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If they can survive in
>urban areas they can survive in the fens.

They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
or without bins or chickens.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>
>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on rotting food in
>>>>>> bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier
>>>>>> digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>
>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>
>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>> conveniently forget?
>>
>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because you haven't
>> seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If they can survive in
>> urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>
> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
> or without bins or chickens.

As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
goes with survival.

We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed to see
it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the wild life
cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the compost heap.
Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives around there and foxes
will catch and eat them.

These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
<https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-the-fenland-foxes>

<https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>

The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>

So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.

GH

In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>
>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>rotting food in
>>>>>>> bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier
>>>>>>> digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>
>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>
>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because you haven't
>>> seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If they can survive in
>>> urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>
>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>> or without bins or chickens.
>
>As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>goes with survival.
>
>We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed to see
>it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the wild life
>cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the compost heap.
>Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives around there and foxes
>will catch and eat them.
>
>These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
><https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>he-fenland-foxes>

She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
normally call fenland[tm].

Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.

><https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>
>The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>
><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>
>So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.

Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.

So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).

And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.

--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 17:37:14 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 09:26:54 +0000
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <ute9u4$1dnn2$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:23:16 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 16:39:31 +0000
>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>In message <utc8tr$smnq$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:53:47 on Tue, 19 Mar
>>>>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on rotting food in
>
>>>>>>bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier
>>>>>>digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>
>>>>>Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>
>>>>Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>
>>>I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>conveniently forget?
>>
>>I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because you haven't
>>seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If they can survive in
>>urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>
>They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>or without bins or chickens.

I hate to break the news to you but there are rodents aplenty even in your
part of the world.

On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 06:20:21 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>
>>So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>
>Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>
>So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>
>And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.

Probably depends on the fox and how hungry it is. The ones here have no
issue with strolling down the street with people around.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On 20 Mar 2024 10:42:43 GMT
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On 20 Mar 2024 10:25:59 GMT
>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 20 Mar 2024 10:18:03 GMT
>>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> years ago, aerial battles with the longer established Buzzards are now
>>>>>> common and the Kites being bigger will usually win . There are only so
>> many
>>>>>
>>>>> Kites occasionally make the mistake of flying around here however the local
>>
>>>> crow
>>>>> gang soon make sure they head out of the area pdq. Urban crows take no
>>>>> prisoners.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Probably dealing in drugs as well.
>>>
>>> They do seem to be strangely absent when the plod chopper is in the area.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> That will be after the. c Rooks..
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually if there is a flock it is usually Rooks , Crows are more solitary.
>
> Possibly, no idea. Quite often there's 10 to 20 of them sitting in a
> nearby tree.

Yes, the conventional wisdom is that if there’s one it’s a crow and if
there’s lots it’s rooks, but that’s not what I see round here - there are
very few rooks in evidence but lots of crows that get together. It must be
the Taggart effect.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 12:32:17 +0100
> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>> Am 19.03.2024 um 12:10 schrieb Marland:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <p22ivipqbpijvollsd2l991q3rou23edbs@4ax.com>, at 03:38:14 on
>>>> Tue, 19 Mar 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 15:54:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 13:56:38 +0000
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> Anyway, it floated to the bank and eventually, about a day later,
>>>>>>> someone unknown fished(sic) it out and put it on the grass verge. It
>>>>>>> then took around three days for a suitably qualified person to come and
>>>>>>> collect it. (I know all this, because I'd called the people responsible
>>>>>>> the first day).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You must have fussy foxes where you live. It would be gone here within a
>> few
>>>>>> hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>> If cats, gulls, rats etc. don't beat them to it.
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder why you institutionally refuse to believe me. The fish was
>>>> intact the whole time (I've got photos if you really insist on keeping
>>>> digging).
>>>
>>> I don’t think people are disbelieving you, just expressing surprise that
>>> natural predators did not avail themselves of an easy sourced meal which
>>> usually happens quite quickly.
>>
>> Predators usually don't eat perished prey. Large scavengers like
>> Vultures are rare in the UK.
>
> Fun fact - human stomach acid is almost as strong as that of vultures and
> way stronger than all the other apes and most mammals. Presumably we did our
> own scavanging back in the day.

About 1M HCl, IIRC. Remember when they told you in Chemistry that 1M acid
was really dangerous and you shouldn’t get it on you? Think on that next
time you come across some vomit.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 09:45:43 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> Fun fact - human stomach acid is almost as strong as that of vultures and
>> way stronger than all the other apes and most mammals. Presumably we did our
>> own scavanging back in the day.
>
>About 1M HCl, IIRC. Remember when they told you in Chemistry that 1M acid
>was really dangerous and you shouldn’t get it on you? Think on that next
>time you come across some vomit.

That would be 2 weeks ago when the sprog caught the school vomiting bug.
Nothing like clearing up projectile vomit at 1am to improve your day.

I would guess however once food is introduced the acidity goes down somewhat
as I don't remember seeing vomit eating through tables or pavements (or kids
teddy bears) in some kind of Alien like steaming puddle :)

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>
>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>> rotting food in
>>>>>>>> bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier
>>>>>>>> digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>
>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>>
>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because you haven't
>>>> seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If they can survive in
>>>> urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>
>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>
>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>> seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>> provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>> Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>> to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>> goes with survival.
>>
>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed to see
>> it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the wild life
>> cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the compost heap.
>> Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives around there and foxes
>> will catch and eat them.
>>
>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>> he-fenland-foxes>
>
> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
> normally call fenland[tm].
>
> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>
>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>
>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>
>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>
> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>
> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>
> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>

That I think we have gone beyond debate out, but to say Foxes don’t do not
live in the Fens because only Turnips and Onions are available to eat is to
be honest quite barmy.
I know we Joke about the Ely effect as if it is some sort of force field
but I doubt there is one that affects Foxes.

This person claims to have filmed these in the Fens
<https://youtu.be/z2CkIMypakI?si=JZTN9oANvQSJLbM2>

Ely museum has them on a list of Fenland Wildlife
<http://www.elymuseum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Fenland-animals.pdf>

This one was hit on a Fenland road
<https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/20719124.1-000-rescue-effort-saves-life-fox-trapped-underneath-car-hit-fenland-road/>

I believe Welney is in the Fens

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-40013177>

So ample examples they do live in Fenland despite your hopes that the
previous example were edge cases so could justify your silly supposition
that it was “The wrong Kind of Landscape”.

You just cannot bear to be wrong can you.

GH

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 09:45:43 -0000 (UTC)
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> Fun fact - human stomach acid is almost as strong as that of vultures and
>>> way stronger than all the other apes and most mammals. Presumably we did our
>>> own scavanging back in the day.
>>
>> About 1M HCl, IIRC. Remember when they told you in Chemistry that 1M acid
>> was really dangerous and you shouldn’t get it on you? Think on that next
>> time you come across some vomit.
>
> That would be 2 weeks ago when the sprog caught the school vomiting bug.
> Nothing like clearing up projectile vomit at 1am to improve your day.
>
> I would guess however once food is introduced the acidity goes down somewhat
> as I don't remember seeing vomit eating through tables or pavements (or kids
> teddy bears) in some kind of Alien like steaming puddle :)

Now that I think about it, spilling 1M HCl on the bench didn’t have much
effect either… :-)

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 09:45:43 -0000 (UTC)
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> Fun fact - human stomach acid is almost as strong as that of vultures and
>>>> way stronger than all the other apes and most mammals. Presumably we did our
>>>> own scavanging back in the day.
>>>
>>> About 1M HCl, IIRC. Remember when they told you in Chemistry that 1M acid
>>> was really dangerous and you shouldn’t get it on you? Think on that next
>>> time you come across some vomit.
>>
>> That would be 2 weeks ago when the sprog caught the school vomiting bug.
>> Nothing like clearing up projectile vomit at 1am to improve your day.
>>
>> I would guess however once food is introduced the acidity goes down somewhat
>> as I don't remember seeing vomit eating through tables or pavements (or kids
>> teddy bears) in some kind of Alien like steaming puddle :)
>
> Now that I think about it, spilling 1M HCl on the bench didn’t have much
> effect either… :-)
>
> Sam
>

But your lab coat and trouser legs gained mysterious holes a day or two
later…

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 09:45:43 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> Fun fact - human stomach acid is almost as strong as that of vultures and
>>>>> way stronger than all the other apes and most mammals. Presumably we did our
>>>>> own scavanging back in the day.
>>>>
>>>> About 1M HCl, IIRC. Remember when they told you in Chemistry that 1M acid
>>>> was really dangerous and you shouldn’t get it on you? Think on that next
>>>> time you come across some vomit.
>>>
>>> That would be 2 weeks ago when the sprog caught the school vomiting bug.
>>> Nothing like clearing up projectile vomit at 1am to improve your day.
>>>
>>> I would guess however once food is introduced the acidity goes down somewhat
>>> as I don't remember seeing vomit eating through tables or pavements (or kids
>>> teddy bears) in some kind of Alien like steaming puddle :)
>>
>> Now that I think about it, spilling 1M HCl on the bench didn’t have much
>> effect either… :-)
>>
>> Sam
>>
>
> But your lab coat and trouser legs gained mysterious holes a day or two
> later…

What is this lab coat you speak of? My father used to work in a chemistry
lab for ICI and his handkerchiefs were full of little holes and oddly
coloured patches.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <l62gaaFq3vvU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:26:18 on Thu, 21
Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>>>rotting food in bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>urban foxes have a hardier digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>>>
>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because
>>>>>you haven't seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If
>>>>>they can survive in urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>
>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>>
>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>>> seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>>> provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>>> Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>>> to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>>> goes with survival.
>>>
>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed to see
>>> it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the wild life
>>> cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the compost heap.
>>> Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives around there and foxes
>>> will catch and eat them.
>>>
>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>
>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>
>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>
>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>
>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>
>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>
>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>
>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>
>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>
>That I think we have gone beyond debate out, but to say Foxes don’t do not
>live in the Fens because only Turnips and Onions are available to eat is to
>be honest quite barmy.

And vexatiously over-reading what I wrote. I wouldn't like to say "there
are no alligators in Fenland" because they probably turn up from time to
time. But there are very slim pickings for foxes, so they'll not find it
very attractive, nor prosper.

ps Welney is set in a rather different landscape, predominantly
permanent wetland, plus that which is flooded every year for three
or four months. I never rated foxes as aquatic mammals. Do they get the
fire brigade to pump out their sets in the Spring? Welney is about a
mile outside Fenland District (this time on the eastern side).

>I know we Joke about the Ely effect as if it is some sort of force field
>but I doubt there is one that affects Foxes.

It's a not very veiled dogpiling ad-hom, is way beyond "just banter",
and gets a bit old. But serves to illustrate, how deep down, so many
contributors have very little in the way of constructive criticism.

>This person claims to have filmed these in the Fens
><https://youtu.be/z2CkIMypakI?si=JZTN9oANvQSJLbM2>
>
>Ely museum has them on a list of Fenland Wildlife
><http://www.elymuseum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Fenland-animals.pdf>

"Foxes live underground in 'earths' or 'dens' and give birth to cubs."
Rather challenging in a landscape of a few hundred square miles of flat
as a pancake peat fields, annually ploughed and seeded with onions and
turnips.

>This one was hit on a Fenland road
><https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/20719124.1-000-rescue-effort-saves-life-fo
>x-trapped-underneath-car-hit-fenland-road/>

That sounds like another example of something happening on the
Peterborough-facing fringe of Fenland District, not in fenland[tm].

>I believe Welney is in the Fens
>
><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-40013177>

Isolated examples, like alligators. They are only news because they are
so unusual, like finding an alligator in your swimming pool.

>So ample examples they do live in Fenland despite your hopes that the
>previous example were edge cases so could justify your silly supposition
>that it was “The wrong Kind of Landscape”.

It certainly *is* the "wrong kind of landscape".

>You just cannot bear to be wrong can you.

There are shades of grey, rather than right/wrong, especially in the
middle of the City (which is where Boltar wrongly said a fox would
finish off a dead pike in a couple of days) and I know which end of that
spectrum of grey it is. Hint: a very different end to Gloucestershire.

And you are not alone in not bearing to accept that keyboard warriering
dubious blogs and news articles (hardly visible between adverts and
written by interns) from hundreds of miles away, isn't trumped by people
with decades of local knowledge.

Sorry, but you started this argument.
--
Roland Perry