In message <utgueo$24dch$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:25:44 on Thu, 21 Mar
2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 06:20:21 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>
>>>So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>
>>Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>
>>So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>
>>And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>
>Probably depends on the fox and how hungry it is. The ones here have no
>issue with strolling down the street with people around.

Dozens of people, half of them walking dogs? But don't worry, there
aren't any urban foxes anyway.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 15:46:24 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <utgueo$24dch$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:25:44 on Thu, 21 Mar
>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 06:20:21 +0000
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>>Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>
>>>>So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>
>>>Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>>of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>
>>>So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>
>>>And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>>a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>>passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>>only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>
>>Probably depends on the fox and how hungry it is. The ones here have no
>>issue with strolling down the street with people around.
>
>Dozens of people, half of them walking dogs? But don't worry, there

All at the same time?

>aren't any urban foxes anyway.

So you say.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <l62gaaFq3vvU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:26:18 on Thu, 21
> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>>>> rotting food in bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>> urban foxes have a hardier digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because
>>>>>> you haven't seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If
>>>>>> they can survive in urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>>
>>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>>>
>>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>>>> seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>>>> provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>>>> Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>>>> to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>>>> goes with survival.
>>>>
>>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed to see
>>>> it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the wild life
>>>> cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the compost heap.
>>>> Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives around there and foxes
>>>> will catch and eat them.
>>>>
>>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>>
>>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>>
>>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>>
>>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>>
>>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>
>>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>
>>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>
>>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>
>>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>
>> That I think we have gone beyond debate out, but to say Foxes don’t do not
>> live in the Fens because only Turnips and Onions are available to eat is to
>> be honest quite barmy.
>
> And vexatiously over-reading what I wrote. I wouldn't like to say "there
> are no alligators in Fenland" because they probably turn up from time to
> time. But there are very slim pickings for foxes, so they'll not find it
> very attractive, nor prosper.
>
> ps Welney is set in a rather different landscape, predominantly
> permanent wetland, plus that which is flooded every year for three
> or four months. I never rated foxes as aquatic mammals. Do they get the
> fire brigade to pump out their sets in the Spring? Welney is about a
> mile outside Fenland District (this time on the eastern side).
>
>> I know we Joke about the Ely effect as if it is some sort of force field
>> but I doubt there is one that affects Foxes.
>
> It's a not very veiled dogpiling ad-hom, is way beyond "just banter",
> and gets a bit old. But serves to illustrate, how deep down, so many
> contributors have very little in the way of constructive criticism.
>
>> This person claims to have filmed these in the Fens
>> <https://youtu.be/z2CkIMypakI?si=JZTN9oANvQSJLbM2>
>>
>> Ely museum has them on a list of Fenland Wildlife
>> <http://www.elymuseum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Fenland-animals.pdf>
>
> "Foxes live underground in 'earths' or 'dens' and give birth to cubs."
> Rather challenging in a landscape of a few hundred square miles of flat
> as a pancake peat fields, annually ploughed and seeded with onions and
> turnips.
>
>> This one was hit on a Fenland road
>> <https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/20719124.1-000-rescue-effort-saves-life-fo
>> x-trapped-underneath-car-hit-fenland-road/>
>
> That sounds like another example of something happening on the
> Peterborough-facing fringe of Fenland District, not in fenland[tm].
>
>> I believe Welney is in the Fens
>>
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-40013177>
>
> Isolated examples, like alligators. They are only news because they are
> so unusual, like finding an alligator in your swimming pool.
>
>> So ample examples they do live in Fenland despite your hopes that the
>> previous example were edge cases so could justify your silly supposition
>> that it was “The wrong Kind of Landscape”.
>
> It certainly *is* the "wrong kind of landscape".
>
>> You just cannot bear to be wrong can you.
>
> There are shades of grey, rather than right/wrong, especially in the
> middle of the City (which is where Boltar wrongly said a fox would
> finish off a dead pike in a couple of days)

Ah the old Perry diversion tactic , we had left that point , the subsequent
debate has-been your erroneous statement that the Fens cannot support “
Country Foxes”
after actually “Shouting WE DON’t HAVE URBAN FOXES” after misreading that
Boltar was talking about their country cousins. You nave been on the
defensive back foot ever since.

and I know which end of that
> spectrum of grey it is. Hint: a very different end to Gloucestershire.

Any reason for picking Gloucestershire , Foxes are common in all Counties ,

>
> And you are not alone in not bearing to accept that keyboard warriering
> dubious blogs and news articles (hardly visible between adverts and
> written by interns) from hundreds of miles away, isn't trumped by people
> with decades of local knowledge.
>
> Sorry, but you started this argument.
It’s not an argument, its watching someone with a personality defect deny
the truth.

That you blatantly refuse to accept several sources of evidence that
Foxes do inhabit the Fens
is just another example that you can not accept being wrong, Is Ely Museum
miles away?
Is there are another Cambridgeshire Fire Brigade ? Of course not.
People dogpile on you because you make stupid comments and stick by them
because of your personality defect that you cannot ever be wrong.
It makes you look silly and also makes anything else you say untrustworthy
even if it may be right.

In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:

>These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
><https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-the-fenland-foxes>

I have never, ever, seen anyone riding a horse in the Fens[tm]; again
it's completely the wrong sort of landscape.

What we do have, though is a couple of smallholdings (I think) which
have a horse and 4-wheel trap, and are seen up to several times a week.

<http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Horse%20and%20Trap%202023.jpg>
--
Roland Perry

On 21/03/2024 16:37, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>
>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-the-fenland-foxes>
>
> I have never, ever, seen anyone riding a horse in the Fens[tm]; again
> it's completely the wrong sort of landscape.
>
> What we do have, though is a couple of smallholdings (I think) which
> have a horse and 4-wheel trap, and are seen up to several times a week.
>
>  <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Horse%20and%20Trap%202023.jpg>

According to my book on horse drawn vehicles, that's a float, not a trap!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <uthlja$2a1p7$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:00:42 on Thu, 21 Mar
2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 15:46:24 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <utgueo$24dch$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:25:44 on Thu, 21 Mar
>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 06:20:21 +0000
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>>>Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>>
>>>>>So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>>
>>>>Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>>>of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>>
>>>>So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>>
>>>>And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>>>a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>>>passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>>>only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>>
>>>Probably depends on the fox and how hungry it is. The ones here have no
>>>issue with strolling down the street with people around.
>>
>>Dozens of people, half of them walking dogs? But don't worry, there
>
>All at the same time?

Yes, it's a very popular and vibrant area.

>>aren't any urban foxes anyway.
>
>So you say.

I do.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uthojr$2akgh$3@dont-email.me>, at 16:52:11 on Thu, 21 Mar
2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 21/03/2024 16:37, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>
>>><https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail
>>>-the-fenland-foxes>
>> I have never, ever, seen anyone riding a horse in the Fens[tm];
>>again it's completely the wrong sort of landscape.
>> What we do have, though is a couple of smallholdings (I think) which
>>have a horse and 4-wheel trap, and are seen up to several times a
>>week.
>>  <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Horse%20and%20Trap%202023.jpg>
>
>According to my book on horse drawn vehicles, that's a float, not a trap!

Fair enough, It's not a cart, though.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 16:58:21 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <uthlja$2a1p7$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:00:42 on Thu, 21 Mar
>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 15:46:24 +0000
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <utgueo$24dch$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:25:44 on Thu, 21 Mar
>>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 06:20:21 +0000
>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>>>>Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>>>
>>>>>Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>>>>of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>>>
>>>>>So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>>>
>>>>>And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>>>>a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>>>>passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>>>>only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>>>
>>>>Probably depends on the fox and how hungry it is. The ones here have no
>>>>issue with strolling down the street with people around.
>>>
>>>Dozens of people, half of them walking dogs? But don't worry, there
>>
>>All at the same time?
>
>Yes, it's a very popular and vibrant area.

"Vibrant" these days is a euphamism for an area full of ethnics who can barely
speak english and a high crime rate.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>
>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-the-fenland-foxes>
>
> I have never, ever, seen anyone riding a horse in the Fens[tm]; again
> it's completely the wrong sort of landscape.
>
> What we do have, though is a couple of smallholdings (I think) which
> have a horse and 4-wheel trap, and are seen up to several times a week.
>
> <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Horse%20and%20Trap%202023.jpg>

There seem to be several equestrian centres in Fenland and a few
campaigns about Bridle Paths some of which are riders who have used a track
for decades and want it legally designated a legal bridle path.

If you have never seen someone riding a horse in the area it must be
because your lifestyle means your and their paths never cross, and the
same will apply to Foxes who are deliberately elusive.

GH

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>
>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>> rotting food in
>>>>>>>> bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier
>>>>>>>> digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>
>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>>
>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because you haven't
>>>> seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If they can survive in
>>>> urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>
>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>
>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>> seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>> provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>> Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>> to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>> goes with survival.
>>
>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed to see
>> it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the wild life
>> cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the compost heap.
>> Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives around there and foxes
>> will catch and eat them.
>>
>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>> he-fenland-foxes>
>
> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
> normally call fenland[tm].
>
> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>
>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>
>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>
>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>
> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>
> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>
> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.

I can’t comment on the pike or whatever might happen in downtown Ely, but
I’ve just been corresponding with someone who used to live just outside
Little Downham. He had a 2 acre plot which extended from the road to the
drainage ditch and was at 0 ft above some MSL datum. From various sources
I think that counts as “fens”. He had foxes. He knew had had foxes
because he also had ducks (intentionally, unlike the foxes) and had to
protect them. I think there were also wild fowl on the ditch.

He also lived near several blocks of woodland which might have been
regarded as thickets or even full blown woods, and was very near to this:
<https://www.elyeventing.co.uk> and says horse riding was very popular.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 21/03/2024 17:33, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>>> rotting food in
>>>>>>>>> bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier
>>>>>>>>> digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>>>
>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because you haven't
>>>>> seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If they can survive in
>>>>> urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>
>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>>
>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>>> seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>>> provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>>> Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>>> to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>>> goes with survival.
>>>
>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed to see
>>> it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the wild life
>>> cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the compost heap.
>>> Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives around there and foxes
>>> will catch and eat them.
>>>
>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>
>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>
>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>
>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>
>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>
>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>
>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>
>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>
>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>
> I can’t comment on the pike or whatever might happen in downtown Ely, but
> I’ve just been corresponding with someone who used to live just outside
> Little Downham. He had a 2 acre plot which extended from the road to the
> drainage ditch and was at 0 ft above some MSL datum. From various sources
> I think that counts as “fens”. He had foxes. He knew had had foxes
> because he also had ducks (intentionally, unlike the foxes) and had to
> protect them. I think there were also wild fowl on the ditch.
>
> He also lived near several blocks of woodland which might have been
> regarded as thickets or even full blown woods, and was very near to this:
> <https://www.elyeventing.co.uk> and says horse riding was very popular.

Does that explain why the foxes have been hunted almost to extinction?

In message <uthq0j$2b3k5$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:16:03 on Thu, 21 Mar
2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:

>>>>>>I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>>>>>a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>>>>>passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>>>>>only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>>>>
>>>>>Probably depends on the fox and how hungry it is. The ones here have no
>>>>>issue with strolling down the street with people around.
>>>>
>>>>Dozens of people, half of them walking dogs? But don't worry, there
>>>
>>>All at the same time?
>>
>>Yes, it's a very popular and vibrant area.
>
>"Vibrant" these days is a euphamism for an area full of ethnics who can barely
>speak english and a high crime rate.

It might be where you live, but not here. Apart from anything else
there's virtually no "ethnics" for xenophobes like you to moan about.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uthr10$2bbnb$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:33:20 on Thu, 21 Mar
2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>>>rotting food in bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>urban foxes have a hardier digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>>>
>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because
>>>>>you haven't
>>>>> seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If they can survive in
>>>>> urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>
>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>>
>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>>> seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>>> provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>>> Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>>> to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>>> goes with survival.
>>>
>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed to see
>>> it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the wild life
>>> cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the compost heap.
>>> Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives around there and foxes
>>> will catch and eat them.
>>>
>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>
>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>
>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>
>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>
>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>
>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>
>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>
>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>
>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>
>I can’t comment on the pike or whatever might happen in downtown Ely, but
>I’ve just been corresponding with someone who used to live just outside
>Little Downham. He had a 2 acre plot which extended from the road to the
>drainage ditch and was at 0 ft above some MSL datum. From various sources
>I think that counts as "fens".

Little Downham is one of a couple of villages which rise above the fens.
They might be surrounded by fenland[tm], but themselves aren't.

>He had foxes. He knew had had foxes because he also had ducks
>(intentionally, unlike the foxes) and had to protect them. I think
>there were also wild fowl on the ditch.
>
>He also lived near several blocks of woodland which might have been
>regarded as thickets or even full blown woods, and was very near to this:
><https://www.elyeventing.co.uk> and says horse riding was very popular.

Not so popular that I've ever seen any horse riders, and I go through
Little Downham fairly regularly.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uti0ks$2chu5$2@dont-email.me>, at 19:09:16 on Thu, 21 Mar
2024, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>On 21/03/2024 17:33, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>>>> rotting food in
>>>>>>>>>> bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps urban foxes
>>>>>>>>>>have a hardier
>>>>>>>>>> digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because
>>>>>>you haven't seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If
>>>>>>they can survive in urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>>
>>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>>>
>>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>>>> seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>>>> provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>>>> Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>>>> to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>>>> goes with survival.
>>>>
>>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed
>>>>to see it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the
>>>>wild life cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the
>>>>compost heap. Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives
>>>>around there and foxes will catch and eat them.
>>>>
>>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>>
>>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>>
>>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>>
>>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>>
>>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>
>>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>
>>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>
>>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>
>>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>> I can’t comment on the pike or whatever might happen in downtown
>>Ely, but
>> I’ve just been corresponding with someone who used to live just outside
>> Little Downham. He had a 2 acre plot which extended from the road to the
>> drainage ditch and was at 0 ft above some MSL datum. From various sources
>> I think that counts as “fens”. He had foxes. He knew had had foxes
>> because he also had ducks (intentionally, unlike the foxes) and had to
>> protect them. I think there were also wild fowl on the ditch.
>> He also lived near several blocks of woodland which might have been
>> regarded as thickets or even full blown woods, and was very near to this:
>> <https://www.elyeventing.co.uk> and says horse riding was very popular.
>
>Does that explain why the foxes have been hunted almost to extinction?

You don't seem to be getting the message that Cambridgeshire (anywhere)
isn't fox-hunting territory.

The Ely Eventing thing sounds a lot like a horse-orientated theme park
(no harm in that, just like there's a couple of glamping sites), rather
than any reflection of the regular activities in this part of the
country. Ditto local people tend to live in houses, not tarted-up tents.
--
Roland Perry

In message <l6398uFtql7U1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:32:14 on Thu, 21
Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>
>>><https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail
>>>-the-fenland-foxes>
>>
>> I have never, ever, seen anyone riding a horse in the Fens[tm]; again
>> it's completely the wrong sort of landscape.
>>
>> What we do have, though is a couple of smallholdings (I think) which
>> have a horse and 4-wheel trap, and are seen up to several times a week.
>>
>> <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Horse%20and%20Trap%202023.jpg>
>
>There seem to be several equestrian centres in Fenland and a few
>campaigns about Bridle Paths some of which are riders who have used a track
>for decades and want it legally designated a legal bridle path.
>
>If you have never seen someone riding a horse in the area it must be
>because your lifestyle means your and their paths never cross,

Over much of fenland[tm] you can see as far as the horizon, and any
horse rider in the middle of a field of turnips would stand out like
a sore thumb.

>and the same will apply to Foxes who are deliberately elusive.

Cowering in their flooded dens under the fields of onions?

Why don't you come down and see for yourself, rather than rely on
secondhand gossip (often with a poor grasp of the difference between
Fenland District and Fenland[tm], scraped from t'Internet?

--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 09:39:02 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <uthq0j$2b3k5$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:16:03 on Thu, 21 Mar
>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>
>>>>>>>I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>>>>>>a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>>>>>>passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>>>>>>only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Probably depends on the fox and how hungry it is. The ones here have no
>>>>>>issue with strolling down the street with people around.
>>>>>
>>>>>Dozens of people, half of them walking dogs? But don't worry, there
>>>>
>>>>All at the same time?
>>>
>>>Yes, it's a very popular and vibrant area.
>>
>>"Vibrant" these days is a euphamism for an area full of ethnics who can barely
>
>>speak english and a high crime rate.
>
>It might be where you live, but not here. Apart from anything else
>there's virtually no "ethnics" for xenophobes like you to moan about.

Its very easy not to moan about massive demographic and culture shifts when it
doesn't affect you.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <l6398uFtql7U1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:32:14 on Thu, 21
> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail
>>>> -the-fenland-foxes>
>>>
>>> I have never, ever, seen anyone riding a horse in the Fens[tm]; again
>>> it's completely the wrong sort of landscape.
>>>
>>> What we do have, though is a couple of smallholdings (I think) which
>>> have a horse and 4-wheel trap, and are seen up to several times a week.
>>>
>>> <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Horse%20and%20Trap%202023.jpg>
>>
>> There seem to be several equestrian centres in Fenland and a few
>> campaigns about Bridle Paths some of which are riders who have used a track
>> for decades and want it legally designated a legal bridle path.
>>
>> If you have never seen someone riding a horse in the area it must be
>> because your lifestyle means your and their paths never cross,
>
> Over much of fenland[tm] you can see as far as the horizon, and any
> horse rider in the middle of a field of turnips would stand out like
> a sore thumb.
>
>> and the same will apply to Foxes who are deliberately elusive.
>
> Cowering in their flooded dens under the fields of onions?
>
> Why don't you come down and see for yourself, rather than rely on
> secondhand gossip (often with a poor grasp of the difference between
> Fenland District and Fenland[tm], scraped from t'Internet?
>

For someone who often asks for cites to back up statements which unless
people are going to post books to you will usually be on the t’internet
your refusal to recognise several valid examples of Foxes
existing in Fenland says more about your mindset , the one that cannot bear
they may be wrong.

Foxes are very adaptable, they will be finding somewhere . Not all Fenland
is underwater all the time otherwise it would not be Fenland but Fenlake.

As for visiting, must get there one day, Eastern England is a neglected
part of my itinerary with only a few brief incursions . The first of which
was when I was about 4 and visited some of Grandmothers
family somewhere near Newmarket. To get some railway content in that was
where I first saw a DMU but it was the unusual looking steam engine which
has stuck. It was the cab Windows that were different to the WR and SR ones
I had seen up to then, they seemed more arched.
Possibly a B1 but may have something older. It would have circa 1958.

GH

In message <utjn8o$2scc9$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:41:29 on Fri, 22 Mar
2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 09:39:02 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <uthq0j$2b3k5$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:16:03 on Thu, 21 Mar
>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>
>>>>>>>>I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>>>>>>>a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>>>>>>>passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>>>>>>>only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Probably depends on the fox and how hungry it is. The ones here have no
>>>>>>>issue with strolling down the street with people around.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dozens of people, half of them walking dogs? But don't worry, there
>>>>>
>>>>>All at the same time?
>>>>
>>>>Yes, it's a very popular and vibrant area.
>>>
>>>"Vibrant" these days is a euphamism for an area full of ethnics who
>>>can barely
>>
>>>speak english and a high crime rate.
>>
>>It might be where you live, but not here. Apart from anything else
>>there's virtually no "ethnics" for xenophobes like you to moan about.
>
>Its very easy not to moan about massive demographic and culture shifts when it
>doesn't affect you.

Thanks for agreeing it doesn't affect me. So another plank of your "fox
eats pike" argument crashes and burns.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 11:38:13 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <utjn8o$2scc9$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:41:29 on Fri, 22 Mar
>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>It might be where you live, but not here. Apart from anything else
>>>there's virtually no "ethnics" for xenophobes like you to moan about.
>>
>>Its very easy not to moan about massive demographic and culture shifts when it
>
>>doesn't affect you.
>
>Thanks for agreeing it doesn't affect me. So another plank of your "fox
>eats pike" argument crashes and burns.

So whats your definition of a vibrant area then?

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <l6398uFtql7U1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:32:14 on Thu, 21
>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail
>>>>> -the-fenland-foxes>
>>>>
>>>> I have never, ever, seen anyone riding a horse in the Fens[tm]; again
>>>> it's completely the wrong sort of landscape.
>>>>
>>>> What we do have, though is a couple of smallholdings (I think) which
>>>> have a horse and 4-wheel trap, and are seen up to several times a week.
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Horse%20and%20Trap%202023.jpg>
>>>
>>> There seem to be several equestrian centres in Fenland and a few
>>> campaigns about Bridle Paths some of which are riders who have used a track
>>> for decades and want it legally designated a legal bridle path.
>>>
>>> If you have never seen someone riding a horse in the area it must be
>>> because your lifestyle means your and their paths never cross,
>>
>> Over much of fenland[tm] you can see as far as the horizon, and any
>> horse rider in the middle of a field of turnips would stand out like
>> a sore thumb.
>>
>>> and the same will apply to Foxes who are deliberately elusive.
>>
>> Cowering in their flooded dens under the fields of onions?
>>
>> Why don't you come down and see for yourself, rather than rely on
>> secondhand gossip (often with a poor grasp of the difference between
>> Fenland District and Fenland[tm], scraped from t'Internet?
>>
>
> For someone who often asks for cites to back up statements which unless
> people are going to post books to you will usually be on the t’internet
> your refusal to recognise several valid examples of Foxes
> existing in Fenland says more about your mindset , the one that cannot bear
> they may be wrong.
>
> Foxes are very adaptable, they will be finding somewhere . Not all Fenland
> is underwater all the time otherwise it would not be Fenland but Fenlake.
>
> As for visiting, must get there one day, Eastern England is a neglected
> part of my itinerary with only a few brief incursions . The first of which
> was when I was about 4 and visited some of Grandmothers
> family somewhere near Newmarket. To get some railway content in that was
> where I first saw a DMU but it was the unusual looking steam engine which
> has stuck. It was the cab Windows that were different to the WR and SR ones
> I had seen up to then, they seemed more arched.
> Possibly a B1 but may have something older. It would have circa 1958.
>
> GH
>
>
Others seem to think foxes live in the Fens

https://www.greatfen.org.uk/wildlife/mammals

Parts of the Great Fen are home to most of the widespread mammal species
that occur across the UK such as foxes, badgers, rabbits, mice, voles and
shrews. However, there are other mammals such as otters, water voles and
Chinese water deer here that are specialists of wetland habitats.

http://www.elymuseum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Fenland-animals.pdf

https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-the-fenland-foxes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2CkIMypakI
Short film showing the secret life of foxes in the Cambridgeshire fens

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/20719126.1-000-rescue-effort-fenland-animal-rescue-saves-life-injured-fox-trapped-underneath-car-fens-town/

https://issuu.com/markhows/docs/atlas2 page 62
“Foxes are widely distributed in Cambridgeshire” - includes map of
distribution

Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
> On 21/03/2024 17:33, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>>>> rotting food in
>>>>>>>>>> bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier
>>>>>>>>>> digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because you haven't
>>>>>> seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If they can survive in
>>>>>> urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>>
>>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>>>
>>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>>>> seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>>>> provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>>>> Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>>>> to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>>>> goes with survival.
>>>>
>>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed to see
>>>> it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the wild life
>>>> cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the compost heap.
>>>> Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives around there and foxes
>>>> will catch and eat them.
>>>>
>>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>>
>>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>>
>>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>>
>>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>>
>>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>
>>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>
>>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>
>>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>
>>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>
>> I can’t comment on the pike or whatever might happen in downtown Ely, but
>> I’ve just been corresponding with someone who used to live just outside
>> Little Downham. He had a 2 acre plot which extended from the road to the
>> drainage ditch and was at 0 ft above some MSL datum. From various sources
>> I think that counts as “fens”. He had foxes. He knew had had foxes
>> because he also had ducks (intentionally, unlike the foxes) and had to
>> protect them. I think there were also wild fowl on the ditch.
>>
>> He also lived near several blocks of woodland which might have been
>> regarded as thickets or even full blown woods, and was very near to this:
>> <https://www.elyeventing.co.uk> and says horse riding was very popular.
>
> Does that explain why the foxes have been hunted almost to extinction?

Obviously not quite to extinction. I can’t say anything about the historic
numbers of foxes, just that there have been foxes in the countryside in
recent years.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uthr10$2bbnb$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:33:20 on Thu, 21 Mar
> 2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>>>> rotting food in bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>> urban foxes have a hardier digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because
>>>>>> you haven't
>>>>>> seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If they can survive in
>>>>>> urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>>
>>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>>>
>>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>>>> seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>>>> provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>>>> Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>>>> to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>>>> goes with survival.
>>>>
>>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed to see
>>>> it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the wild life
>>>> cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the compost heap.
>>>> Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives around there and foxes
>>>> will catch and eat them.
>>>>
>>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>>
>>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>>
>>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>>
>>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>>
>>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>
>>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>
>>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>
>>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>
>>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>
>> I can’t comment on the pike or whatever might happen in downtown Ely, but
>> I’ve just been corresponding with someone who used to live just outside
>> Little Downham. He had a 2 acre plot which extended from the road to the
>> drainage ditch and was at 0 ft above some MSL datum. From various sources
>> I think that counts as "fens".
>
> Little Downham is one of a couple of villages which rise above the fens.
> They might be surrounded by fenland[tm], but themselves aren't.

I wrote “just outside Little Downham… at 0 ft above … MSL”. I think that’s
actually fens, and it’s where he was seeing foxes and horses.

>> He had foxes. He knew had had foxes because he also had ducks
>> (intentionally, unlike the foxes) and had to protect them. I think
>> there were also wild fowl on the ditch.
>>
>> He also lived near several blocks of woodland which might have been
>> regarded as thickets or even full blown woods, and was very near to this:
>> <https://www.elyeventing.co.uk> and says horse riding was very popular.
>
> Not so popular that I've ever seen any horse riders, and I go through
> Little Downham fairly regularly.

And he lived there and he did.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uti0ks$2chu5$2@dont-email.me>, at 19:09:16 on Thu, 21 Mar
> 2024, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>> On 21/03/2024 17:33, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>>>>> rotting food in
>>>>>>>>>>> bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps urban foxes
>>>>>>>>>>> have a hardier
>>>>>>>>>>> digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>>>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>>>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because
>>>>>>> you haven't seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If
>>>>>>> they can survive in urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>>>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>>>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>>>>
>>>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>>>>> seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>>>>> provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>>>>> Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>>>>> to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>>>>> goes with survival.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed
>>>>> to see it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the
>>>>> wild life cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the
>>>>> compost heap. Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives
>>>>> around there and foxes will catch and eat them.
>>>>>
>>>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>>>
>>>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>>>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>>>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>>>
>>>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>>>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>>>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>>>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>>>
>>>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>>
>>>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>>
>>>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>>
>>>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>>
>>>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>> I can’t comment on the pike or whatever might happen in downtown
>>> Ely, but
>>> I’ve just been corresponding with someone who used to live just outside
>>> Little Downham. He had a 2 acre plot which extended from the road to the
>>> drainage ditch and was at 0 ft above some MSL datum. From various sources
>>> I think that counts as “fens”. He had foxes. He knew had had foxes
>>> because he also had ducks (intentionally, unlike the foxes) and had to
>>> protect them. I think there were also wild fowl on the ditch.
>>> He also lived near several blocks of woodland which might have been
>>> regarded as thickets or even full blown woods, and was very near to this:
>>> <https://www.elyeventing.co.uk> and says horse riding was very popular.
>>
>> Does that explain why the foxes have been hunted almost to extinction?
>
> You don't seem to be getting the message that Cambridgeshire (anywhere)
> isn't fox-hunting territory.
>
> The Ely Eventing thing sounds a lot like a horse-orientated theme park
> (no harm in that, just like there's a couple of glamping sites), rather
> than any reflection of the regular activities in this part of the
> country. Ditto local people tend to live in houses, not tarted-up tents.

I’d have thought you’d need at least a bit of local enthusiasm to build on
and maintain an enterprise like that.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 21/03/2024 16:31, Marland wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <l62gaaFq3vvU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:26:18 on Thu, 21
>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>>>>> rotting food in bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>> urban foxes have a hardier digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>>>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>>>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because
>>>>>>> you haven't seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If
>>>>>>> they can survive in urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>>>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>>>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>>>>
>>>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>>>>> seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>>>>> provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>>>>> Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>>>>> to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>>>>> goes with survival.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed to see
>>>>> it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the wild life
>>>>> cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the compost heap.
>>>>> Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives around there and foxes
>>>>> will catch and eat them.
>>>>>
>>>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>>>
>>>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>>>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>>>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>>>
>>>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>>>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>>>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>>>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>>>
>>>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>>
>>>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>>
>>>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>>
>>>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>>
>>>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>>
>>> That I think we have gone beyond debate out, but to say Foxes don’t do not
>>> live in the Fens because only Turnips and Onions are available to eat is to
>>> be honest quite barmy.
>>
>> And vexatiously over-reading what I wrote. I wouldn't like to say "there
>> are no alligators in Fenland" because they probably turn up from time to
>> time. But there are very slim pickings for foxes, so they'll not find it
>> very attractive, nor prosper.
>>
>> ps Welney is set in a rather different landscape, predominantly
>> permanent wetland, plus that which is flooded every year for three
>> or four months. I never rated foxes as aquatic mammals. Do they get the
>> fire brigade to pump out their sets in the Spring? Welney is about a
>> mile outside Fenland District (this time on the eastern side).
>>
>>> I know we Joke about the Ely effect as if it is some sort of force field
>>> but I doubt there is one that affects Foxes.
>>
>> It's a not very veiled dogpiling ad-hom, is way beyond "just banter",
>> and gets a bit old. But serves to illustrate, how deep down, so many
>> contributors have very little in the way of constructive criticism.
>>
>>> This person claims to have filmed these in the Fens
>>> <https://youtu.be/z2CkIMypakI?si=JZTN9oANvQSJLbM2>
>>>
>>> Ely museum has them on a list of Fenland Wildlife
>>> <http://www.elymuseum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Fenland-animals.pdf>
>>
>> "Foxes live underground in 'earths' or 'dens' and give birth to cubs."
>> Rather challenging in a landscape of a few hundred square miles of flat
>> as a pancake peat fields, annually ploughed and seeded with onions and
>> turnips.
>>
>>> This one was hit on a Fenland road
>>> <https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/20719124.1-000-rescue-effort-saves-life-fo
>>> x-trapped-underneath-car-hit-fenland-road/>
>>
>> That sounds like another example of something happening on the
>> Peterborough-facing fringe of Fenland District, not in fenland[tm].
>>
>>> I believe Welney is in the Fens
>>>
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-40013177>
>>
>> Isolated examples, like alligators. They are only news because they are
>> so unusual, like finding an alligator in your swimming pool.
>>
>>> So ample examples they do live in Fenland despite your hopes that the
>>> previous example were edge cases so could justify your silly supposition
>>> that it was “The wrong Kind of Landscape”.
>>
>> It certainly *is* the "wrong kind of landscape".
>>
>>> You just cannot bear to be wrong can you.
>>
>> There are shades of grey, rather than right/wrong, especially in the
>> middle of the City (which is where Boltar wrongly said a fox would
>> finish off a dead pike in a couple of days)
>
> Ah the old Perry diversion tactic , we had left that point , the subsequent
> debate has-been your erroneous statement that the Fens cannot support “
> Country Foxes”
> after actually “Shouting WE DON’t HAVE URBAN FOXES” after misreading that
> Boltar was talking about their country cousins. You nave been on the
> defensive back foot ever since.
>
> and I know which end of that
>> spectrum of grey it is. Hint: a very different end to Gloucestershire.
>
> Any reason for picking Gloucestershire , Foxes are common in all Counties ,
>

Not true, some counties do not have them!
https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2008/10/03/dead-fox-may-have-been-taken-to-isles-as-a-hoax

--
Colin

ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
> On 21/03/2024 16:31, Marland wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <l62gaaFq3vvU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:26:18 on Thu, 21
>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>>>>>> rotting food in bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it. Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>> urban foxes have a hardier digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here either (wrong
>>>>>>>>> type of landscape). Or did you add that to your list of things to
>>>>>>>>> conveniently forget?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because
>>>>>>>> you haven't seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If
>>>>>>>> they can survive in urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>>>>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>>>>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got used to
>>>>>> seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think they are sweet and
>>>>>> provide enough food and convenient places to build a Den.
>>>>>> Their Country cousins still have to defend a territory and search out food
>>>>>> to survive and are harder to see as they retain the natural caution that
>>>>>> goes with survival.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed to see
>>>>>> it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the wild life
>>>>>> cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the compost heap.
>>>>>> Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives around there and foxes
>>>>>> will catch and eat them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>>>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>>>>
>>>>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>>>>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>>>>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>>>>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>>>>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>>>>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>>>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>>>
>>>>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>>>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>>>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>>>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>>>
>>>> That I think we have gone beyond debate out, but to say Foxes don’t do not
>>>> live in the Fens because only Turnips and Onions are available to eat is to
>>>> be honest quite barmy.
>>>
>>> And vexatiously over-reading what I wrote. I wouldn't like to say "there
>>> are no alligators in Fenland" because they probably turn up from time to
>>> time. But there are very slim pickings for foxes, so they'll not find it
>>> very attractive, nor prosper.
>>>
>>> ps Welney is set in a rather different landscape, predominantly
>>> permanent wetland, plus that which is flooded every year for three
>>> or four months. I never rated foxes as aquatic mammals. Do they get the
>>> fire brigade to pump out their sets in the Spring? Welney is about a
>>> mile outside Fenland District (this time on the eastern side).
>>>
>>>> I know we Joke about the Ely effect as if it is some sort of force field
>>>> but I doubt there is one that affects Foxes.
>>>
>>> It's a not very veiled dogpiling ad-hom, is way beyond "just banter",
>>> and gets a bit old. But serves to illustrate, how deep down, so many
>>> contributors have very little in the way of constructive criticism.
>>>
>>>> This person claims to have filmed these in the Fens
>>>> <https://youtu.be/z2CkIMypakI?si=JZTN9oANvQSJLbM2>
>>>>
>>>> Ely museum has them on a list of Fenland Wildlife
>>>> <http://www.elymuseum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Fenland-animals.pdf>
>>>
>>> "Foxes live underground in 'earths' or 'dens' and give birth to cubs."
>>> Rather challenging in a landscape of a few hundred square miles of flat
>>> as a pancake peat fields, annually ploughed and seeded with onions and
>>> turnips.
>>>
>>>> This one was hit on a Fenland road
>>>> <https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/20719124.1-000-rescue-effort-saves-life-fo
>>>> x-trapped-underneath-car-hit-fenland-road/>
>>>
>>> That sounds like another example of something happening on the
>>> Peterborough-facing fringe of Fenland District, not in fenland[tm].
>>>
>>>> I believe Welney is in the Fens
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-40013177>
>>>
>>> Isolated examples, like alligators. They are only news because they are
>>> so unusual, like finding an alligator in your swimming pool.
>>>
>>>> So ample examples they do live in Fenland despite your hopes that the
>>>> previous example were edge cases so could justify your silly supposition
>>>> that it was “The wrong Kind of Landscape”.
>>>
>>> It certainly *is* the "wrong kind of landscape".
>>>
>>>> You just cannot bear to be wrong can you.
>>>
>>> There are shades of grey, rather than right/wrong, especially in the
>>> middle of the City (which is where Boltar wrongly said a fox would
>>> finish off a dead pike in a couple of days)
>>
>> Ah the old Perry diversion tactic , we had left that point , the subsequent
>> debate has-been your erroneous statement that the Fens cannot support “
>> Country Foxes”
>> after actually “Shouting WE DON’t HAVE URBAN FOXES” after misreading that
>> Boltar was talking about their country cousins. You nave been on the
>> defensive back foot ever since.
>>
>> and I know which end of that
>>> spectrum of grey it is. Hint: a very different end to Gloucestershire.
>>
>> Any reason for picking Gloucestershire , Foxes are common in all Counties ,
>>
>
>
> Not true, some counties do not have them!
> https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2008/10/03/dead-fox-may-have-been-taken-to-isles-as-a-hoax
>