In message <utkco6$31hpr$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:48:06 on Fri, 22 Mar
2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uti0ks$2chu5$2@dont-email.me>, at 19:09:16 on Thu, 21 Mar
>> 2024, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>> On 21/03/2024 17:33, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>>>>>>rotting food in bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier digestive system than their country cousins.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here
>>>>>>>>>either (wrong type of landscape). Or did you add that to your
>>>>>>>>>list of things to conveniently forget?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because
>>>>>>>> you haven't seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If
>>>>>>>> they can survive in urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>>>>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>>>>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got
>>>>>>used to seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think
>>>>>>they are sweet and provide enough food and convenient places to
>>>>>>build a Den. Their Country cousins still have to defend a
>>>>>>territory and search out food to survive and are harder to see as
>>>>>>they retain the natural caution that goes with survival.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed
>>>>>> to see it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the
>>>>>> wild life cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the
>>>>>> compost heap. Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives
>>>>>> around there and foxes will catch and eat them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>>>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>>>>
>>>>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>>>>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>>>>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>>>>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>>>>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>>>>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>>>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>>>
>>>>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>>>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>>>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>>>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.

>>>> I can’t comment on the pike or whatever might happen in downtown
>>>> Ely, but
>>>> I’ve just been corresponding with someone who used to live just outside
>>>> Little Downham. He had a 2 acre plot which extended from the road to the
>>>> drainage ditch and was at 0 ft above some MSL datum. From various sources
>>>> I think that counts as “fens”. He had foxes. He knew had had foxes
>>>> because he also had ducks (intentionally, unlike the foxes) and had to
>>>> protect them. I think there were also wild fowl on the ditch.
>>>> He also lived near several blocks of woodland which might have been
>>>> regarded as thickets or even full blown woods, and was very near to this:
>>>> <https://www.elyeventing.co.uk> and says horse riding was very popular.
>>>
>>> Does that explain why the foxes have been hunted almost to extinction?
>>
>> You don't seem to be getting the message that Cambridgeshire (anywhere)
>> isn't fox-hunting territory.
>>
>> The Ely Eventing thing sounds a lot like a horse-orientated theme park
>> (no harm in that, just like there's a couple of glamping sites), rather
>> than any reflection of the regular activities in this part of the
>> country. Ditto local people tend to live in houses, not tarted-up tents.
>
>I’d have thought you’d need at least a bit of local enthusiasm to build on
>and maintain an enterprise like that.

Enthusiasm as spectators perhaps. But ownership of horses is so low I
would expect most of the participants to come from further afield.

People I know who are interested in horses base their activities in
Newmarket (which of course isn't in the Fens).
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <1ba10jloupk8idebdhtenio41urpt42f9i@4ax.com>, at 22:32:25 on
> Sun, 24 Mar 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
> remarked:
>> On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 06:55:45 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <1jvrvi98mi653akj20c410ierefhbrdqc9@4ax.com>, at 22:04:25 on
>>> Fri, 22 Mar 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>> remarked:
>>>> On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 21:30:52 +0000, Graeme Wall
>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 22/03/2024 21:14, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 21:08:56 +0000, Graeme Wall
>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22/03/2024 20:14, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22 Mar 2024 17:42:52 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Any reason for picking Gloucestershire , Foxes are common in
>>>>>>>>>>> Counties ,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not true, some counties do not have them!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2008/10/03/dead-fox-may-have-been-
>>>>>>>>>> taken-to-isles-as-a-hoax
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I used Counties deliberately as though Foxes are common
>>>>>>>>> throughout much of Scotland I wasn’t sure about all of it so
>>>>>>>>> avoided adding the word Regions as well , Is Shetland sill a
>>>>>>>>> County in the old sense or is it just historic usage?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Counties still exist in Scotland for purposes other than local
>>>>>>>> government administration, one current function being land
>>>>>>>> registration whose counties predated the creation of local government
>>>>>>>> counties.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In which case Shetland is not a county, it is Zetland.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same place, different name; most counties have at least two versions.
>>>>>> See also Hjaltland.
>>>>>
>>>>> I assume you mean Scottish counties, English counties tend to have one name.
>>>>>
>>>> Most have an everyday and a more formal "County of...." version -
>>>> Lancashire - County of Lancaster
>>>> Hertfordshire - County of Hertford
>>>
>>> City of Peterborough - County of Peterborough (previously part of the
>>> County of Huntingdon and Peterborough, and before that County of the
>>> Soke of Peterborough).
>>>
>> Those were "City and County of..." which were shireless other than in
>> terms of the immediate surrounding area rather than the county which
>> contained them.
>
> "City and County of Huntingdon and Peterborough" doesn't sound right.

As an aside, there used to be an Edinburghshire until (Wiki avows) 1947,
when it became Midlothian. Then there was Lothan Region and now Midlothian
and the City of Edinburgh are different areas.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <utkco6$31hpr$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:48:06 on Fri, 22 Mar
> 2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uti0ks$2chu5$2@dont-email.me>, at 19:09:16 on Thu, 21 Mar
>>> 2024, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>> On 21/03/2024 17:33, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>>>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rotting food in bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier digestive system than their country
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cousins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here
>>>>>>>>>> either (wrong type of landscape). Or did you add that to your
>>>>>>>>>> list of things to conveniently forget?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because
>>>>>>>>> you haven't seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If
>>>>>>>>> they can survive in urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm not sure
>>>>>>>> if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious few houses, with
>>>>>>>> or without bins or chickens.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got
>>>>>>> used to seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think
>>>>>>> they are sweet and provide enough food and convenient places to
>>>>>>> build a Den. Their Country cousins still have to defend a
>>>>>>> territory and search out food to survive and are harder to see as
>>>>>>> they retain the natural caution that goes with survival.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed
>>>>>>> to see it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the
>>>>>>> wild life cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the
>>>>>>> compost heap. Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives
>>>>>>> around there and foxes will catch and eat them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>>>>> <https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>>>>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>>>>>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>>>>>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>>>>>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>>>>>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>>>>>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>>>>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>>>>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>>>>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>>>>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>
>>>>> I can’t comment on the pike or whatever might happen in downtown
>>>>> Ely, but
>>>>> I’ve just been corresponding with someone who used to live just outside
>>>>> Little Downham. He had a 2 acre plot which extended from the road to the
>>>>> drainage ditch and was at 0 ft above some MSL datum. From various sources
>>>>> I think that counts as “fens”. He had foxes. He knew had had foxes
>>>>> because he also had ducks (intentionally, unlike the foxes) and had to
>>>>> protect them. I think there were also wild fowl on the ditch.
>>>>> He also lived near several blocks of woodland which might have been
>>>>> regarded as thickets or even full blown woods, and was very near to this:
>>>>> <https://www.elyeventing.co.uk> and says horse riding was very popular.
>>>>
>>>> Does that explain why the foxes have been hunted almost to extinction?
>>>
>>> You don't seem to be getting the message that Cambridgeshire (anywhere)
>>> isn't fox-hunting territory.
>>>
>>> The Ely Eventing thing sounds a lot like a horse-orientated theme park
>>> (no harm in that, just like there's a couple of glamping sites), rather
>>> than any reflection of the regular activities in this part of the
>>> country. Ditto local people tend to live in houses, not tarted-up tents.
>>
>> I’d have thought you’d need at least a bit of local enthusiasm to build on
>> and maintain an enterprise like that.
>
> Enthusiasm as spectators perhaps. But ownership of horses is so low I
> would expect most of the participants to come from further afield.
>
> People I know who are interested in horses base their activities in
> Newmarket (which of course isn't in the Fens).

And it’s all anecdata, which means we can’t take any of it as absolute
truth. It’s clear that at least your contention that there are no [fox]
“country cousins” is literally untrue, but it may be an approximation, and
there are at least some thickets of woodland and some people who ride
horses around Little Downham.

Let’s leave it there.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 09:50:39 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <1ba10jloupk8idebdhtenio41urpt42f9i@4ax.com>, at 22:32:25 on
>> Sun, 24 Mar 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>> remarked:
>>> On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 06:55:45 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <1jvrvi98mi653akj20c410ierefhbrdqc9@4ax.com>, at 22:04:25 on
>>>> Fri, 22 Mar 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>> On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 21:30:52 +0000, Graeme Wall
>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22/03/2024 21:14, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 21:08:56 +0000, Graeme Wall
>>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22/03/2024 20:14, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 22 Mar 2024 17:42:52 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Any reason for picking Gloucestershire , Foxes are common in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Counties ,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not true, some counties do not have them!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2008/10/03/dead-fox-may-have-been-
>>>>>>>>>>> taken-to-isles-as-a-hoax
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I used Counties deliberately as though Foxes are common
>>>>>>>>>> throughout much of Scotland I wasn’t sure about all of it so
>>>>>>>>>> avoided adding the word Regions as well , Is Shetland sill a
>>>>>>>>>> County in the old sense or is it just historic usage?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Counties still exist in Scotland for purposes other than local
>>>>>>>>> government administration, one current function being land
>>>>>>>>> registration whose counties predated the creation of local government
>>>>>>>>> counties.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In which case Shetland is not a county, it is Zetland.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Same place, different name; most counties have at least two versions.
>>>>>>> See also Hjaltland.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I assume you mean Scottish counties, English counties tend to have one name.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Most have an everyday and a more formal "County of...." version -
>>>>> Lancashire - County of Lancaster
>>>>> Hertfordshire - County of Hertford
>>>>
>>>> City of Peterborough - County of Peterborough (previously part of the
>>>> County of Huntingdon and Peterborough, and before that County of the
>>>> Soke of Peterborough).
>>>>
>>> Those were "City and County of..." which were shireless other than in
>>> terms of the immediate surrounding area rather than the county which
>>> contained them.
>>
>> "City and County of Huntingdon and Peterborough" doesn't sound right.
>
>As an aside, there used to be an Edinburghshire until (Wiki avows) 1947,
>when it became Midlothian. Then there was Lothan Region and now Midlothian
>and the City of Edinburgh are different areas.
>
It changed well before 1947 depending on which bit of officialdom you
were dealing with; see also Haddingtonshire and Linlithgowshire. In
England the Probate Office ignored the existence of the County of
London well into the 20th century.

In message <utrhjn$10u51$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:53:59 on Mon, 25 Mar
2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <utkco6$31hpr$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:48:06 on Fri, 22 Mar
>> 2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uti0ks$2chu5$2@dont-email.me>, at 19:09:16 on Thu, 21 Mar
>>>> 2024, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>>> On 21/03/2024 17:33, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <l61ep4Fl86lU1@mid.individual.net>, at 00:53:56 on Thu, 21
>>>>>>> Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <uteaku$1dsdi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:26 on Wed, 20 Mar
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Given the foxes around here are quite happy to dine out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rotting food in bins I suspect they'd have nabbed it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Perhaps urban foxes have a hardier digestive system than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>their country cousins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you not get the memo that WE DON'T HAVE ANY URBAN FOXES ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Which part of "their country cousins" confused you?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I also said we don't have any country cousins around here
>>>>>>>>>>> either (wrong type of landscape). Or did you add that to your
>>>>>>>>>>> list of things to conveniently forget?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I can guarantee you have foxes somewhere near you. Just because
>>>>>>>>>> you haven't seen or heard them doesn't mean they're not there. If
>>>>>>>>>> they can survive in urban areas they can survive in the fens.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They survive in urban areas because there's a food supply. I'm
>>>>>>>>>not sure if they like turnips and onions. And there's precious
>>>>>>>>>few houses, with or without bins or chickens.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As Boltar says, you will have foxes in Fenland ,People have got
>>>>>>>> used to seeing them in Urban areas because Urban Humans think
>>>>>>>> they are sweet and provide enough food and convenient places to
>>>>>>>> build a Den. Their Country cousins still have to defend a
>>>>>>>> territory and search out food to survive and are harder to see as
>>>>>>>> they retain the natural caution that goes with survival.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have one that passes through the garden every so often , managed
>>>>>>>> to see it in the flesh once , other occasions it was caught on the
>>>>>>>> wild life cameras and it also leaves a distinctive pong around the
>>>>>>>> compost heap. Don’t mind it going there as the odd rat also lives
>>>>>>>> around there and foxes will catch and eat them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These links are about Foxes in Fenland.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>><https://www.oldsite.cpre.org.uk/magazine/out-and-about/item/4604-hail-t
>>>>>>>> he-fenland-foxes>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She doesn't say which town she lives in, but if it has thickets of trees
>>>>>>> it might be on the fringe of Fenland District Council, but not what we'd
>>>>>>> normally call fenland[tm].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Similarly the talk of rabbits and horses competing for grazing - there
>>>>>>> simply aren't any grazing horses in most of fenland[tm] and without
>>>>>>> wishing to increase the list of absent-things, I've never seen a rabbit
>>>>>>> round here either. Compared to say mid-Essex where they are everywhere.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/s1ttIAWQkBg?si=eJ6l5LVbalETtTzV>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Fire Brigade even found one a few years back.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48154540>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So they do live there despite your concerns about their diet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wilburton is not in the fens[tm]. It's much more of a necklace village
>>>>>>> of Cambridge, and quite a different landscape and demographic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I think we've cleared up all this confusion (aka sloppy reporting).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And remember, I'm still quite sure no type of fox is going to be eating
>>>>>>> a dead pike a few feet away from a busy riverside footpath with people
>>>>>>> passing along it almost all day long (many of them dog-walkers), and
>>>>>>> only six feet from moored boats with people on board essentially 24x7.
>>
>>>>>> I can’t comment on the pike or whatever might happen in downtown
>>>>>> Ely, but
>>>>>> I’ve just been corresponding with someone who used to live just outside
>>>>>> Little Downham. He had a 2 acre plot which extended from the road to the
>>>>>> drainage ditch and was at 0 ft above some MSL datum. From
>>>>>>various sources
>>>>>> I think that counts as “fens”. He had foxes. He knew had had foxes
>>>>>> because he also had ducks (intentionally, unlike the foxes) and had to
>>>>>> protect them. I think there were also wild fowl on the ditch.
>>>>>> He also lived near several blocks of woodland which might have been
>>>>>> regarded as thickets or even full blown woods, and was very near to this:
>>>>>> <https://www.elyeventing.co.uk> and says horse riding was very popular.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does that explain why the foxes have been hunted almost to extinction?
>>>>
>>>> You don't seem to be getting the message that Cambridgeshire (anywhere)
>>>> isn't fox-hunting territory.
>>>>
>>>> The Ely Eventing thing sounds a lot like a horse-orientated theme park
>>>> (no harm in that, just like there's a couple of glamping sites), rather
>>>> than any reflection of the regular activities in this part of the
>>>> country. Ditto local people tend to live in houses, not tarted-up tents.
>>>
>>> I’d have thought you’d need at least a bit of local enthusiasm
>>>to build on
>>> and maintain an enterprise like that.
>>
>> Enthusiasm as spectators perhaps. But ownership of horses is so low I
>> would expect most of the participants to come from further afield.
>>
>> People I know who are interested in horses base their activities in
>> Newmarket (which of course isn't in the Fens).
>
>And it’s all anecdata, which means we can’t take any of it as absolute
>truth. It’s clear that at least your contention that there are no [fox]
>“country cousins” is literally untrue,

I'm sure if we waited long enough we could find a report of a crocodile,
which would debunk claims that "there are no crocodiles living in the
Fens".

But most people know what that last statement is supposed to mean.

>but it may be an approximation, and there are at least some thickets of
>woodland

Which is not fen land.

>and some people who ride horses around Little Downham.

Once in a blue moon perhaps.

I've posted evidence of at least one horse in fen lands, but it was
pulling a four wheeled contraption, and not being ridden.

>Let’s leave it there.

In message <utjrff$2tbhj$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:53:19 on Fri, 22 Mar
2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 11:38:13 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <utjn8o$2scc9$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:41:29 on Fri, 22 Mar
>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>It might be where you live, but not here. Apart from anything else
>>>>there's virtually no "ethnics" for xenophobes like you to moan about.
>>>
>>>Its very easy not to moan about massive demographic and culture
>>>shifts when it
>>
>>>doesn't affect you.
>>
>>Thanks for agreeing it doesn't affect me. So another plank of your "fox
>>eats pike" argument crashes and burns.
>
>So whats your definition of a vibrant area then?

Full of tourists during the day, revellers at night, on account of being
both pretty, and stuffed full of hospitality venues.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 10:23:35 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <utjrff$2tbhj$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:53:19 on Fri, 22 Mar
>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 11:38:13 +0000
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <utjn8o$2scc9$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:41:29 on Fri, 22 Mar
>>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>It might be where you live, but not here. Apart from anything else
>>>>>there's virtually no "ethnics" for xenophobes like you to moan about.
>>>>
>>>>Its very easy not to moan about massive demographic and culture
>>>>shifts when it
>>>
>>>>doesn't affect you.
>>>
>>>Thanks for agreeing it doesn't affect me. So another plank of your "fox
>>>eats pike" argument crashes and burns.
>>
>>So whats your definition of a vibrant area then?
>
>Full of tourists during the day, revellers at night, on account of being
>both pretty, and stuffed full of hospitality venues.

Thats what it used to mean.

In message <utk833$30cta$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:35 on Fri, 22 Mar
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>https://issuu.com/markhows/docs/atlas2 page 62

>"Foxes are widely distributed in Cambridgeshire" - includes map of
>distribution

It includes a map of "sightings", but doesn't say if each is an isolated
sighting (it could be) or a number of sightings at the same place (in
which case different sized blobs might be helpful).

It apparently covers 10 years of record-keeping, so if each blob is one
sighting, the number in fen lands is about five per year. In the area a
fox might plausibly travel to eat a pike by the river Ouse in central
Ely, no more than one a year.

Other quotes: "Cambridgeshire includes Huntingdonshire, the Isle of Ely
and Peterborough. Recorded coverage may not be equal in all parts of the
county".

The Fen Lands in Cambridgeshire are predominantly in The Isle of Ely
(now known as East Cambridgeshire, and of course the City of Ely is
urban, not farmland) plus much of the District Council known as Fenland,
which stretches west of East Cambs to the borders of Huntingdonshire DC
and Peterborough.

There are more Fen Lands in the south of Lincolnshire, the south of West
Norfolk, and a small bit of the northwest of Suffolk.

"Foxes raise cubs in a den called an earth" but no-one here has
explained how that works when the landscape is waterlogged fields,
sometimes fully under water in the Winter.

<https://www.flickr.com/photos/julianhodgson/16459508669/>
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <utk833$30cta$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:35 on Fri, 22 Mar
> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>> https://issuu.com/markhows/docs/atlas2 page 62
>
>> "Foxes are widely distributed in Cambridgeshire" - includes map of
>> distribution
>
> It includes a map of "sightings", but doesn't say if each is an isolated
> sighting (it could be) or a number of sightings at the same place (in
> which case different sized blobs might be helpful).
>
> It apparently covers 10 years of record-keeping, so if each blob is one
> sighting, the number in fen lands is about five per year. In the area a
> fox might plausibly travel to eat a pike by the river Ouse in central
> Ely, no more than one a year.
>
> Other quotes: "Cambridgeshire includes Huntingdonshire, the Isle of Ely
> and Peterborough. Recorded coverage may not be equal in all parts of the
> county".
>
> The Fen Lands in Cambridgeshire are predominantly in The Isle of Ely
> (now known as East Cambridgeshire, and of course the City of Ely is
> urban, not farmland) plus much of the District Council known as Fenland,
> which stretches west of East Cambs to the borders of Huntingdonshire DC
> and Peterborough.
>
> There are more Fen Lands in the south of Lincolnshire, the south of West
> Norfolk, and a small bit of the northwest of Suffolk.
>
> "Foxes raise cubs in a den called an earth" but no-one here has
> explained how that works when the landscape is waterlogged fields,
> sometimes fully under water in the Winter.
>
> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/julianhodgson/16459508669/>

Because not all the land is completely flat? Some of the roads and
certainly the railways are built on banks which would provide adequate
possibilities for digging an earth.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <utk833$30cta$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:35 on Fri, 22 Mar
>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>> https://issuu.com/markhows/docs/atlas2 page 62
>>
>>> "Foxes are widely distributed in Cambridgeshire" - includes map of
>>> distribution
>>
>> It includes a map of "sightings", but doesn't say if each is an isolated
>> sighting (it could be) or a number of sightings at the same place (in
>> which case different sized blobs might be helpful).
>>
>> It apparently covers 10 years of record-keeping, so if each blob is one
>> sighting, the number in fen lands is about five per year. In the area a
>> fox might plausibly travel to eat a pike by the river Ouse in central
>> Ely, no more than one a year.
>>
>> Other quotes: "Cambridgeshire includes Huntingdonshire, the Isle of Ely
>> and Peterborough. Recorded coverage may not be equal in all parts of the
>> county".
>>
>> The Fen Lands in Cambridgeshire are predominantly in The Isle of Ely
>> (now known as East Cambridgeshire, and of course the City of Ely is
>> urban, not farmland) plus much of the District Council known as Fenland,
>> which stretches west of East Cambs to the borders of Huntingdonshire DC
>> and Peterborough.
>>
>> There are more Fen Lands in the south of Lincolnshire, the south of West
>> Norfolk, and a small bit of the northwest of Suffolk.
>>
>> "Foxes raise cubs in a den called an earth" but no-one here has
>> explained how that works when the landscape is waterlogged fields,
>> sometimes fully under water in the Winter.
>>
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/julianhodgson/16459508669/>
>
> Because not all the land is completely flat? Some of the roads and
> certainly the railways are built on banks which would provide adequate
> possibilities for digging an earth.
>
> Sam
>

I wonder if Wicken Fen counts as Fenland under Rolands definition .

Some people seem able to see Foxes
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/133669809@N02/43902446690/in/photostream/>

<https://www.flickr.com/photos/133669809@N02/44806074555/in/photostream/>

Seems like a herd of wild ponies/horses is doing quite well.

GH

In message <l6l91gFng6aU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:18:40 on Thu, 28
Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <utk833$30cta$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:35 on Fri, 22 Mar
>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> https://issuu.com/markhows/docs/atlas2 page 62
>>>
>>>> "Foxes are widely distributed in Cambridgeshire" - includes map of
>>>> distribution
>>>
>>> It includes a map of "sightings", but doesn't say if each is an isolated
>>> sighting (it could be) or a number of sightings at the same place (in
>>> which case different sized blobs might be helpful).
>>>
>>> It apparently covers 10 years of record-keeping, so if each blob is one
>>> sighting, the number in fen lands is about five per year. In the area a
>>> fox might plausibly travel to eat a pike by the river Ouse in central
>>> Ely, no more than one a year.
>>>
>>> Other quotes: "Cambridgeshire includes Huntingdonshire, the Isle of Ely
>>> and Peterborough. Recorded coverage may not be equal in all parts of the
>>> county".
>>>
>>> The Fen Lands in Cambridgeshire are predominantly in The Isle of Ely
>>> (now known as East Cambridgeshire, and of course the City of Ely is
>>> urban, not farmland) plus much of the District Council known as Fenland,
>>> which stretches west of East Cambs to the borders of Huntingdonshire DC
>>> and Peterborough.
>>>
>>> There are more Fen Lands in the south of Lincolnshire, the south of West
>>> Norfolk, and a small bit of the northwest of Suffolk.
>>>
>>> "Foxes raise cubs in a den called an earth" but no-one here has
>>> explained how that works when the landscape is waterlogged fields,
>>> sometimes fully under water in the Winter.
>>>
>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/julianhodgson/16459508669/>
>>
>> Because not all the land is completely flat? Some of the roads and
>> certainly the railways are built on banks which would provide adequate
>> possibilities for digging an earth.

There's some truth in that, but they are very narrow ribbons in hundreds
of square miles of farmland, so hardly likely to result in foxes being
on anyone's radar. FWIW my daily errands involve driving along such
roads (and next to such river and railway banks) and I've ever seen a
fox. Not even a roadkill one.

>> Sam
>
>I wonder if Wicken Fen counts as Fenland under Rolands definition .

Do you mean fen lands? It's certainly not Fenland District Council.

I'd call it a self-contained nature reserve, and it's not cultivated. I
don't regard Coe Fen in central Cambridge as fen lands either. Not far
from there is a field with Llamas in it, but I don't claim they are
indigenous.

>Some people seem able to see Foxes
><https://www.flickr.com/photos/133669809@N02/43902446690/in/photostream/>

In any event, it's too far from Ely for a fox from there to tiptoe
through the dog-walkers and late night[1] revellers to get some pike for
a snack. They could reduce the travel time by catching a train from
Soham, though, and the council is currently spending a fortune tarting
up a footpath from the station across fields to Wicken and the nature
reserve.

><https://www.flickr.com/photos/133669809@N02/44806074555/in/photostream/>
>
>Seems like a herd of wild ponies/horses is doing quite well.

They were in the news quite recently and have been specially introduced.

[1] The record is a hen party on a hire boat, which was still going
strong at 8am the following morning. I'm told the usual time things
wind down is between 1am and 2am.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uu0vlo$2qcq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:24:41 on Wed, 27 Mar
2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 10:23:35 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <utjrff$2tbhj$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:53:19 on Fri, 22 Mar
>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 11:38:13 +0000
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>In message <utjn8o$2scc9$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:41:29 on Fri, 22 Mar
>>>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>It might be where you live, but not here. Apart from anything else
>>>>>>there's virtually no "ethnics" for xenophobes like you to moan about.
>>>>>
>>>>>Its very easy not to moan about massive demographic and culture
>>>>>shifts when it doesn't affect you.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for agreeing it doesn't affect me. So another plank of your "fox
>>>>eats pike" argument crashes and burns.
>>>
>>>So whats your definition of a vibrant area then?
>>
>>Full of tourists during the day, revellers at night, on account of being
>>both pretty, and stuffed full of hospitality venues.
>
>Thats what it used to mean.

Still does, there's a stream of promotional material from the Tourist
information people who never fail to mention it.

My own riposte is "Vibrant - or some people's borderline anti-social
behaviour". I don't mind people having a good time, as long as they
don't disturb the residents too much, but I do object to the way they
leave empty beer glasses and litter strewn everywhere. They also do
things like jumping on the roofs of moored boats, which is definitely
ASB.

Thre's absolutely nothing ethnic about it, not least because 99% of them
are SWASPs.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> Some people seem able to see Foxes
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/133669809@N02/43902446690/in/photostream/>
>
> In any event, it's too far from Ely for a fox from there to tiptoe
> through the dog-walkers and late night[1] revellers to get some pike for
> a snack. They could reduce the travel time by catching a train from
> Soham, though, and the council is currently spending a fortune tarting
> up a footpath from the station across fields to Wicken and the nature
> reserve.

I don’t normally link to Facebook posts because not everybody likes it,
but how far away a was the Lazy Otter pub mentioned?
It appears to be on the River Great Ouse about 5 miles from Ely.
Someone came across an injured then dead Fox.

<https://www.facebook.com/100069778562174/posts/6046704315360301/>

To get one hit on the road they must exist, perhaps it had a bus pass and
was on a day out.

GH

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 09:58:38 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <uu0vlo$2qcq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:24:41 on Wed, 27 Mar
>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>Thats what it used to mean.
>
>Still does, there's a stream of promotional material from the Tourist
>information people who never fail to mention it.
>
>My own riposte is "Vibrant - or some people's borderline anti-social
>behaviour". I don't mind people having a good time, as long as they
>don't disturb the residents too much, but I do object to the way they
>leave empty beer glasses and litter strewn everywhere. They also do
>things like jumping on the roofs of moored boats, which is definitely
>ASB.
>
>Thre's absolutely nothing ethnic about it, not least because 99% of them
>are SWASPs.

Anywhere that gets called "vibrant" by the media today particuarly the BBC
has a high ethnic demographic. They wouldn't dream of calling somewhere like
Saffron Walden vibrant no matter what the townsfolk did or however many
festivals, fetes and markets they had.

The modern libtard meaning of vibrant is an edgy/crime ridden ethic area with
an overarching culture that has bugger all to do with the majority of white
British. Ie "Brixton" is vibrant, Barnet is not.

On 29/03/2024 09:58, Roland Perry wrote:
> Thre's absolutely nothing ethnic about it, not least because 99% of them
> are SWASPs.

You mean white people aren't ethnic somehow?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <l6njq5F3pehU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:34:45 on Fri, 29
Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Some people seem able to see Foxes
>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/133669809@N02/43902446690/in/photostream/>
>>
>> In any event, it's too far from Ely for a fox from there to tiptoe
>> through the dog-walkers and late night[1] revellers to get some pike for
>> a snack. They could reduce the travel time by catching a train from
>> Soham, though, and the council is currently spending a fortune tarting
>> up a footpath from the station across fields to Wicken and the nature
>> reserve.
>
>I don’t normally link to Facebook posts because not everybody likes it,
>but how far away a was the Lazy Otter pub mentioned?
>It appears to be on the River Great Ouse about 5 miles from Ely.

6.4 miles from the pike, according to Google maps.

But I wouldn't regard the Lazy Otter as being in fen lands, the
landscape there is much more like conventional farmland, which
stretches from there through all of South Cambs District to
Hertfordshire and beyond.

>Someone came across an injured then dead Fox.
>
><https://www.facebook.com/100069778562174/posts/6046704315360301/>
>
>To get one hit on the road they must exist, perhaps it had a bus pass and
>was on a day out.

The busy A10 runs a hundred yards from the Lazy Otter. (Which
incidentally has been closed a couple of years now, while the owners
unsuccessfully keep applying for a change of use from pub to family
house).
--
Roland Perry

In message <uu6fvf$afat$3@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:34 on Fri, 29 Mar
2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 29/03/2024 09:58, Roland Perry wrote:

>> Thre's absolutely nothing ethnic about it, not least because 99% of
>>them are SWASPs.
>
>You mean white people aren't ethnic somehow?

According to the Law Society, only groups such as "Polish or Gypsy, Roma
and Irish Traveller" are both white and ethnic.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uu65hl$84n9$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:35:33 on Fri, 29 Mar
2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 09:58:38 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <uu0vlo$2qcq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:24:41 on Wed, 27 Mar
>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>Thats what it used to mean.
>>
>>Still does, there's a stream of promotional material from the Tourist
>>information people who never fail to mention it.
>>
>>My own riposte is "Vibrant - or some people's borderline anti-social
>>behaviour". I don't mind people having a good time, as long as they
>>don't disturb the residents too much, but I do object to the way they
>>leave empty beer glasses and litter strewn everywhere. They also do
>>things like jumping on the roofs of moored boats, which is definitely
>>ASB.
>>
>>Thre's absolutely nothing ethnic about it, not least because 99% of them
>>are SWASPs.
>
>Anywhere that gets called "vibrant" by the media today particuarly the BBC
>has a high ethnic demographic.

You should get out more, and read media from places outside London.

>They wouldn't dream of calling somewhere like Saffron Walden vibrant no
>matter what the townsfolk did or however many festivals, fetes and
>markets they had.
>

From Facebook:

Saffron Walden Market, Saffron Walden. 2200 likes. A bustling vibrant
market in the heart of Saffron Walden.

From a tourism site:

A quaint and vibrant market town in the heart of Uttlesford.

>The modern libtard meaning of vibrant is an edgy/crime ridden ethic area with
>an overarching culture that has bugger all to do with the majority of white
>British. Ie "Brixton" is vibrant, Barnet is not.

So you claim, but I disagree.

But whatever you call it, the vibrant Ely riverside is not an area
that foxes will be wandering through looking for snack. What an
extraordinarily amount of effort you are expending, to avoid
admitting you were wrong.
--
Roland Perry

On 30/03/2024 09:07, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <uu6fvf$afat$3@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:34 on Fri, 29 Mar
> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 29/03/2024 09:58, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>>> Thre's absolutely nothing ethnic about it, not least because 99% of
>>> them  are SWASPs.
>>
>> You mean white people aren't ethnic somehow?
>
> According to the Law Society, only groups such as "Polish or Gypsy, Roma
> and Irish Traveller" are both white and ethnic.

As ever the law (society) is an ass, though I suspect what it actually
says is that those groups are examples of white ethnic groups, not the
only such groups.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 09:20:17 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <uu65hl$84n9$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:35:33 on Fri, 29 Mar
>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>Anywhere that gets called "vibrant" by the media today particuarly the BBC
>>has a high ethnic demographic.
>
>You should get out more, and read media from places outside London.

Just FYI - the BBC is national.

>
>>They wouldn't dream of calling somewhere like Saffron Walden vibrant no
>>matter what the townsfolk did or however many festivals, fetes and
>>markets they had.
>>
>
> From Facebook:
>
> Saffron Walden Market, Saffron Walden. 2200 likes. A bustling vibrant
> market in the heart of Saffron Walden.

>
> From a tourism site:
>
> A quaint and vibrant market town in the heart of Uttlesford.
>

Some random uncredited facebook page and tourist site. Well that told me.

>>The modern libtard meaning of vibrant is an edgy/crime ridden ethic area with
>>an overarching culture that has bugger all to do with the majority of white
>>British. Ie "Brixton" is vibrant, Barnet is not.
>
>So you claim, but I disagree.

Noted.

>But whatever you call it, the vibrant Ely riverside is not an area
>that foxes will be wandering through looking for snack. What an
>extraordinarily amount of effort you are expending, to avoid
>admitting you were wrong.

I wasn't actually talking or even thinking about foxes at all. Talk about
moving the goalposts, you dug them up and took them to a different pitch.

On 30/03/2024 10:25, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> Just FYI - the BBC is national.

I thought it was in Birmingham…
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <uu8o72$u6ub$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:06:26 on Sat, 30 Mar
2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 30/03/2024 09:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <uu6fvf$afat$3@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:34 on Fri, 29 Mar
>>2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 29/03/2024 09:58, Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>>> Thre's absolutely nothing ethnic about it, not least because 99% of
>>>>them  are SWASPs.
>>>
>>> You mean white people aren't ethnic somehow?

>> According to the Law Society, only groups such as "Polish or Gypsy,
>>Roma and Irish Traveller" are both white and ethnic.
>
>As ever the law (society) is an ass, though I suspect what it actually
>says is that those groups are examples of white ethnic groups, not the
>only such groups.

I snipped the part of their guidance which is that "White British" is an
ethnic group. Because I don't think the earlier assertion that "Vibrant
[only] means "Ethnic", was said to in order to confirm people revelling
on the riverside - or wherever - were ethnic.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uu8pb9$uhj1$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:25:45 on Sat, 30 Mar
2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 09:20:17 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <uu65hl$84n9$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:35:33 on Fri, 29 Mar
>>2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>Anywhere that gets called "vibrant" by the media today particuarly the BBC
>>>has a high ethnic demographic.
>>
>>You should get out more, and read media from places outside London.
>
>Just FYI - the BBC is national.
>
>>
>>>They wouldn't dream of calling somewhere like Saffron Walden vibrant no
>>>matter what the townsfolk did or however many festivals, fetes and
>>>markets they had.
>>>
>>
>> From Facebook:
>>
>> Saffron Walden Market, Saffron Walden. 2200 likes. A bustling vibrant
>> market in the heart of Saffron Walden.
>
>> From a tourism site:
>>
>> A quaint and vibrant market town in the heart of Uttlesford.
>>
>
>Some random uncredited facebook page

It's the Facebook page of the Saffron Walden Market (see also the "2200
likes"). And a local tourism site that's the top Google hit for such
things.

>and tourist site. Well that told me.
>
>>>The modern libtard meaning of vibrant is an edgy/crime ridden ethic area with
>>>an overarching culture that has bugger all to do with the majority of white
>>>British. Ie "Brixton" is vibrant, Barnet is not.
>>
>>So you claim, but I disagree.
>
>Noted.
>
>>But whatever you call it, the vibrant Ely riverside is not an area
>>that foxes will be wandering through looking for snack. What an
>>extraordinarily amount of effort you are expending, to avoid
>>admitting you were wrong.
>
>I wasn't actually talking or even thinking about foxes at all. Talk about
>moving the goalposts, you dug them up and took them to a different pitch.

>>Anyway, it floated to the bank and eventually, about a day later,
>>someone unknown fished(sic) it out and put it on the grass verge. It
>>then took around three days for a suitably qualified person to come
>>and collect it. (I know all this, because I'd called the people
>>responsible the first day).
>
>You must have fussy foxes where you live. It would be gone here
>within a few hours.

I'm completely and utterly baffled why you should insist on scoring such
a spectacular own goal.

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uu8o72$u6ub$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:06:26 on Sat, 30 Mar
> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 30/03/2024 09:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uu6fvf$afat$3@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:34 on Fri, 29 Mar
>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 29/03/2024 09:58, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Thre's absolutely nothing ethnic about it, not least because 99% of
>>>>> them  are SWASPs.
>>>>
>>>> You mean white people aren't ethnic somehow?
>
>>> According to the Law Society, only groups such as "Polish or Gypsy,
>>> Roma and Irish Traveller" are both white and ethnic.
>>
>> As ever the law (society) is an ass, though I suspect what it actually
>> says is that those groups are examples of white ethnic groups, not the
>> only such groups.
>
> I snipped the part of their guidance which is that "White British" is an
> ethnic group. Because I don't think the earlier assertion that "Vibrant
> [only] means "Ethnic", was said to in order to confirm people revelling
> on the riverside - or wherever - were ethnic.

Phew! I was getting a little worried that, despite being British, I wasn’t
ethnically British.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 30/03/2024 10:25, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> Just FYI - the BBC is national.
>
> I thought it was in Birmingham…

I thought it was Salford?

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply