Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 05:59:08 -0700
>Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> It’f fun to drive, and you get to see a lot more of the country than you
>> do from a plane.
>
> Your superhighways must be very different to our motorways - most
>of the time on a motorway I see concrete, cars, trucks and the sides of the
>cutting or other barrier used to direct the sound away from the residents.
>It may be the most beautiful country in the world just a few metres away
>but a motorway is always ugly.

That depends on location, location, location.

Take Interstate 80, for example; Starts in Teaneck New Jersey and
ends in downtown San Franscisco. 2,900 miles (4,668 km). A wide
variety of everything, from the relatively densely populated
eastern New Jersey, through wooded, hilly Pennsylvania, into the
flat farmlands of the midwest from Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa
and Nebraska, entering the intermountain west, the deserts west
of Utah's Salt Lake, into the high deserts of Nevada, the Sierra
Nevada Mountains (Donner pass, Lake Tahoe), the agricultural
mecca of the central valleys of California terminating in
beautiful San Francisco.

Or you can take the much slower US Route 66 more leisurely.

> Anywhere with a decent high speed network trains win hands down,
>even the worst train catering is way better than planes, the view is
>usually better than from a road *and* I can look at it comfortably because
>I'm not piloting a tonne of metal and plastic at over 100kph.

I don't necessarily disagree, but we have a lot more area to cover,
here and there doesn't seem to be much emphasis on long-range passenger
rail travel. There are scenic train routes, albeit mostly north of
the Canadian border sadly.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 16:17:21 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
>"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> writes:
>>On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 19:11:21 GMT
>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>
>>> maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
>>> >On 2023-02-24, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Mine's a Guiness.
>>>
>>Guinness
>>
>>> So's mine. Slainte!
>>
>>I'd rather a Wickwar Station Porter, or a a Titanic Vanilla Stout.
>
>I did acquire a taste for Abbot Ale when I was last in
>Milton Keynes, but that's much harder to find on this side
>of the pond.

Yuck indeed. I prefer rum.
--
Jim

On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 09:57:24 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
<admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 14:54:27 -0600
>D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 17:06:02 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>> >maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
>> >>On 2023-02-24, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> >>>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 23:44:11 GMT
>> >>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 2023-02-23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 07:45:52 -0700
>> >>>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Also did about 700 miles per day with one or two of those quick stops
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I can't think of anything that would persuade me to drive 700
>> >>>>>> miles in a day.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Been there, done that. It's doable, but tiring - especially solo.
>> >>>>> Best done when you're in your 20s.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Last summer we drove from Vancouver, B.C. to Moab, Utah,
>> >>>>> a distance of about 1200 miles. We did it in two days,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If I have to go that kind of distance I'll fly or if it's across
>> >>>> mainland Europe I might take a train. Driving it would not enter
>> >>>> consideration.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> It’f fun to drive, and you get to see a lot more of the country than you do
>> >>> from a plane.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>It is in Ireland, with a beautiful view every mile, but in the US its a
>> >>matter of seen one cactus or field of corn, you have seen them all.
>> >
>> >It must suck to be such a bitter old man.
>>
>> Yeah, that doesn't describe much of the US.
>
>Just to be contrary; I bet you^one could compose a substantial (is 500km
>the target?) route across the cornbelt with a reasonably monotonous view.
>Bill Bryson describes (or doesn't) part of his US trip by skipping forward
>3 hours, so we didn't have to. AIUI Oz has similar long strteches, replace
>the view with gum trees & red dirt.

The Great Plains of the US is corn, wheat, and cattle. But there are
other parts with oak and pine forests, cities and towns, amusement
parks, the grand canyon, etc.
--
Jim

On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 10:33:08 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 05:59:08 -0700
>Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> It’f fun to drive, and you get to see a lot more of the country than you
>> do from a plane.
>
> Your superhighways must be very different to our motorways - most
>of the time on a motorway I see concrete, cars, trucks and the sides of the
>cutting or other barrier used to direct the sound away from the residents.
>It may be the most beautiful country in the world just a few metres away
>but a motorway is always ugly.
>
> Driving through country roads, villages, small towns, mountain
>passes ... that can be fun sure but not hundreds of miles a day of it.
>
> Anywhere with a decent high speed network trains win hands down,
>even the worst train catering is way better than planes, the view is
>usually better than from a road *and* I can look at it comfortably because
>I'm not piloting a tonne of metal and plastic at over 100kph.

I can drive down an Interstate highway and be going through pine
forests, the Painted Desert, marshes, the Hoover dam, lots of scenic
places. The US east coast from Atlanta up past New Yorkk City all runs
together. But you can still see rivers and forests.
--
Jim

maus <maus@mail.com> writes:

> On 2023-02-25, Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 24/02/2023 12:59, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> It’f fun to drive, and you get to see a lot more of the country than you do
>>> from a plane.
>> Actually [if it's daylight and you have a window seat] you see a
>> lot more from the plane. But it's all a long way away, whereas in a car
>> you may get to see things close up. OTOH, if you're driving, your eyes
>> should be on the road, not peering at the houses you're going past.
>> OTTH, flying is horrible. Not so much the actual flight, but getting
>> to/from the airport and waiting around.
>>
>
> I get someone to drive me so I can look out to see how things have
> changed over the years. That is the old roads. My big problem is to pay
> attention to the road when I am driving myself. everything is gone out
> of the cars that will divert from that, route finders, desktop cameras.
> A book on tape perhaps. I am told that the area around Pittsburg is very
> scenic, and the real deep south is worth visiting.
>
> Probably never now.

On the east coast peak driving is probably Skyline Drive.

NH and VT are something to see in the fall.

--
Dan Espen

Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
>
>> On 2023-02-25, Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/02/2023 12:59, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> It’f fun to drive, and you get to see a lot more of the country than you do
>>>> from a plane.
>>> Actually [if it's daylight and you have a window seat] you see a
>>> lot more from the plane. But it's all a long way away, whereas in a car
>>> you may get to see things close up. OTOH, if you're driving, your eyes
>>> should be on the road, not peering at the houses you're going past.
>>> OTTH, flying is horrible. Not so much the actual flight, but getting
>>> to/from the airport and waiting around.
>>>
>>
>> I get someone to drive me so I can look out to see how things have
>> changed over the years. That is the old roads. My big problem is to pay
>> attention to the road when I am driving myself. everything is gone out
>> of the cars that will divert from that, route finders, desktop cameras.
>> A book on tape perhaps. I am told that the area around Pittsburg is very
>> scenic, and the real deep south is worth visiting.
>>
>> Probably never now.
>
>On the east coast peak driving is probably Skyline Drive.

On the west coast, try Skyline Boulevard (CA35) in the Santa
Cruz mountains, year 'round.

>
>NH and VT are something to see in the fall.

As are Wisconsin and Minnesota, particularly along
the Mississippi river valley from Hudson Wi to
Dubuque, Iowa.

On 2023-02-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
>
>> On 2023-02-25, Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/02/2023 12:59, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> It’f fun to drive, and you get to see a lot more of the country than you do
>>>> from a plane.
>> attention to the road when I am driving myself. everything is gone out
>> of the cars that will divert from that, route finders, desktop cameras.
>> A book on tape perhaps. I am told that the area around Pittsburg is very
>> scenic, and the real deep south is worth visiting.
>>
>> Probably never now.
>
> On the east coast peak driving is probably Skyline Drive.
>
> NH and VT are something to see in the fall.
>

Yes, I have heard the joke, "Summer in NH is nice, if it falls on a
weekend."

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 05:59:08 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> It’f fun to drive, and you get to see a lot more of the country than you
>> do from a plane.
>
> Your superhighways must be very different to our motorways - most
> of the time on a motorway I see concrete, cars, trucks and the sides of the
> cutting or other barrier used to direct the sound away from the residents.
> It may be the most beautiful country in the world just a few metres away
> but a motorway is always ugly.
>
> Driving through country roads, villages, small towns, mountain
> passes ... that can be fun sure but not hundreds of miles a day of it.
>
> Anywhere with a decent high speed network trains win hands down,
> even the worst train catering is way better than planes, the view is
> usually better than from a road *and* I can look at it comfortably because
> I'm not piloting a tonne of metal and plastic at over 100kph.
>

Last time I took a train I had wonderful views of the backs of some slum
houses, warehouses, and freight yards.

I would actually prefer the train, if we had any that made speed equivalent
to driving, but the last time I priced two tickets, it was far, far cheaper
to drive, or even fly, and I didn’t have to rent a car when I got there.

--
Pete

Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/02/2023 12:59, Peter Flass wrote:
>> It’f fun to drive, and you get to see a lot more of the country than you do
>> from a plane.
> Actually [if it's daylight and you have a window seat] you see a
> lot more from the plane.

In olden days (pre-jet) planes flew at lower altitudes, and the scenery was
wonderful. Now, as you say, you’re too high to see much, so I’m trying to
play guess that river/lake/mountain range/etc. What I’d really like is to
fly in an airship - I think Zeppelin is running some excursions in Europe.

> But it's all a long way away, whereas in a car
> you may get to see things close up. OTOH, if you're driving, your eyes
> should be on the road, not peering at the houses you're going past.
> OTTH, flying is horrible. Not so much the actual flight, but getting
> to/from the airport and waiting around.
>

--
Pete

On 2023-02-25, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2023-02-25, Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 24/02/2023 12:59, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>> It’f fun to drive, and you get to see a lot more of the country than you do
>>>>> from a plane.
>>
>>On the east coast peak driving is probably Skyline Drive.
>
> On the west coast, try Skyline Boulevard (CA35) in the Santa
> Cruz mountains, year 'round.
>
>>
>>NH and VT are something to see in the fall.
>
> As are Wisconsin and Minnesota, particularly along
> the Mississippi river valley from Hudson Wi to
> Dubuque, Iowa.

I've read "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintainence". Good book

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-02-25, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 16:17:21 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> wrote:
>>"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> writes:
>>>On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 19:11:21 GMT
>>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>>
>>>> maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
>>>> >On 2023-02-24, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Mine's a Guiness.
>>>>
>>>Guinness
>>>
>>>> So's mine. Slainte!
>>>
>>>I'd rather a Wickwar Station Porter, or a a Titanic Vanilla Stout.
>>
>>I did acquire a taste for Abbot Ale when I was last in
>>Milton Keynes, but that's much harder to find on this side
>>of the pond.
>
> Yuck indeed. I prefer rum.

Good rum, well watered. Bacardi.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-02-25, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 10:33:08 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
><steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 05:59:08 -0700
>>Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It’f fun to drive, and you get to see a lot more of the country than you
>>> do from a plane.
>>
>> Your superhighways must be very different to our motorways - most
>>of the time on a motorway I see concrete, cars, trucks and the sides of the
>>cutting or other barrier used to direct the sound away from the residents.
>>It may be the most beautiful country in the world just a few metres away
>>but a motorway is always ugly.
>>
>> Driving through country roads, villages, small towns, mountain
>>passes ... that can be fun sure but not hundreds of miles a day of it.
>>
>> Anywhere with a decent high speed network trains win hands down,
>>even the worst train catering is way better than planes, the view is
>>usually better than from a road *and* I can look at it comfortably because
>>I'm not piloting a tonne of metal and plastic at over 100kph.
>
> I can drive down an Interstate highway and be going through pine
> forests, the Painted Desert, marshes, the Hoover dam, lots of scenic
> places. The US east coast from Atlanta up past New Yorkk City all runs
> together. But you can still see rivers and forests.

The sprawl, william gibson. Must read those books again.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 05:59:08 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It’f fun to drive, and you get to see a lot more of the country than you
>>> do from a plane.
>>
>> Your superhighways must be very different to our motorways - most
>> of the time on a motorway I see concrete, cars, trucks and the sides of the
>> cutting or other barrier used to direct the sound away from the residents.
>> It may be the most beautiful country in the world just a few metres away
>> but a motorway is always ugly.
>>
>> Driving through country roads, villages, small towns, mountain
>> passes ... that can be fun sure but not hundreds of miles a day of it.
>>
>> Anywhere with a decent high speed network trains win hands down,
>> even the worst train catering is way better than planes, the view is
>> usually better than from a road *and* I can look at it comfortably because
>> I'm not piloting a tonne of metal and plastic at over 100kph.
>>
>
>Last time I took a train I had wonderful views of the backs of some slum
>houses, warehouses, and freight yards.
>
>I would actually prefer the train, if we had any that made speed equivalent
>to driving, but the last time I priced two tickets, it was far, far cheaper
>to drive, or even fly, and I didn’t have to rent a car when I got there.

Acela from Penn Station to Boston Back bay station is cost competitive
with flying from any NYC airport (even going first class on Amtrak)
and almost time competitive (and has the benefit of much more personal
space, 110vac outlets, tables and nice views once out of Manhatten).

On 2023-02-25, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 05:59:08 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It’f fun to drive, and you get to see a lot more of the country than you
>>> do from a plane.
>>
>> Your superhighways must be very different to our motorways - most
>> of the time on a motorway I see concrete, cars, trucks and the sides of the
>> cutting or other barrier used to direct the sound away from the residents.
>> It may be the most beautiful country in the world just a few metres away
>> but a motorway is always ugly.
>>
>> Driving through country roads, villages, small towns, mountain
>> passes ... that can be fun sure but not hundreds of miles a day of it.
>>
>> Anywhere with a decent high speed network trains win hands down,
>> even the worst train catering is way better than planes, the view is
>> usually better than from a road *and* I can look at it comfortably because
>> I'm not piloting a tonne of metal and plastic at over 100kph.
>>
>
> Last time I took a train I had wonderful views of the backs of some slum
> houses, warehouses, and freight yards.
>
> I would actually prefer the train, if we had any that made speed equivalent
> to driving, but the last time I priced two tickets, it was far, far cheaper
> to drive, or even fly, and I didn’t have to rent a car when I got there.
>

The European fast trains are fast, comfortable, and very expensive. Nice
views, though. Rural Italy was nice.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 15:58:27 +0000
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 13:07:20 +0000
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>
> > Peter Flass wrote:
> >
> > > with lots of traffic lights (and flocks of sheep?)
> >
> > nuns! reverse!
>
> Esra Sdrawkcab
>
It's been a while since he posted, I'd nearly forgotten that name!
But I expect he's still posting silly stuff to usenet under a different
nym, if I know him at all.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 25 Feb 2023 18:40:14 GMT, maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
>On 2023-02-25, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 16:17:21 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>>>"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> writes:
>>>>On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 19:11:21 GMT
>>>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
>>>>> >On 2023-02-24, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Mine's a Guiness.
>>>>>
>>>>Guinness
>>>>
>>>>> So's mine. Slainte!
>>>>
>>>>I'd rather a Wickwar Station Porter, or a a Titanic Vanilla Stout.
>>>
>>>I did acquire a taste for Abbot Ale when I was last in
>>>Milton Keynes, but that's much harder to find on this side
>>>of the pond.
>>
>> Yuck indeed. I prefer rum.
>
>Good rum, well watered. Bacardi.

Captain Morgan's is much better.
--
Jim

On 2023-02-25, maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2023-02-25, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 16:17:21 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>>>"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> writes:
>>>>On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 19:11:21 GMT
>>>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
>>>>> >On 2023-02-24, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Mine's a Guiness.
>>>>>
>>>>Guinness
>>>>
>>>>> So's mine. Slainte!
>>>>
>>>>I'd rather a Wickwar Station Porter, or a a Titanic Vanilla Stout.
>>>
>>>I did acquire a taste for Abbot Ale when I was last in
>>>Milton Keynes, but that's much harder to find on this side
>>>of the pond.
>>
>> Yuck indeed. I prefer rum.
>
> Good rum, well watered. Bacardi.
>
>
Bacardi is cooking rum; for me it's Mount Gay or Vat 19.