Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
bird lovers in AUE.

There was a thread while ago discussing the symbolism of toilet signs in
different cultures.

<https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9jieh8djrjs10lr54scwx/Toilet-sign.jpg?rlkey=5loulys3ydnlcvkcmcp4zcxqo&dl=0>

occam wrote:

> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
> bird lovers in AUE.

Very nice. You write "Male/Female", but the signs are actually
completely general. They refer only to physiscal equipment.

--
Bertel, Denmark

El Mon, 05 Feb 2024 13:47:56 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen escribió:

> occam wrote:
>
>> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
>> bird lovers in AUE.
>
> Very nice. You write "Male/Female", but the signs are actually
> completely general. They refer only to physiscal equipment.

Well, you have me confused. I mean, it's American, but I believe they use
the word pecker to mean willy. What men have. The other one is what women
have.

Or have I been whooshed?

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 5:30:35 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
> bird lovers in AUE.
>
> There was a thread while ago discussing the symbolism of toilet signs in
> different cultures.
>
>
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9jieh8djrjs10lr54scwx/Toilet-sign.jpg?rlkey=5loulys3ydnlcvkcmcp4zcxqo&dl=0>

Cute.

I suppose somebody somewhere has used a rooster and a cat.

--
Jerry Friedman

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 9:01:21 AM UTC-7, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El Mon, 05 Feb 2024 13:47:56 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen escribió:
>
> > occam wrote:
> >
> >> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
> >> bird lovers in AUE.
> >
> > Very nice. You write "Male/Female", but the signs are actually
> > completely general. They refer only to physiscal equipment.
> Well, you have me confused. I mean, it's American, but I believe they use
> the word pecker to mean willy. What men have. The other one is what women
> have.
....

Not so sure it's American. All the tits shown are British, and we call related
birds titmice and chickadees. The woodpeckers are hard to see, but I think
they're all European.

--
Jerry Friedman

Paul Carmichael wrote:

>>> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
>>> bird lovers in AUE.
>>
>> Very nice. You write "Male/Female", but the signs are actually
>> completely general. They refer only to physiscal equipment.
>
> Well, you have me confused. I mean, it's American, but I believe they use
> the word pecker to mean willy. What men have. The other one is what women
> have.
>
> Or have I been whooshed?

I don't know. I just meant that in these days where some people do not
want to be called "man" or "woman", they would like a sign that doesn't
use those words.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> occam wrote:
>
> > Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to
> > the bird lovers in AUE.
>
> Very nice. You write "Male/Female", but the signs are actually
> completely general. They refer only to physiscal equipment.

The way the world is going why not just have toilets for everyone
these days? One sign, saying "Toilet". No need for little drawings
of people either. Think of the money it would save!!!

I don't have separate toilets in my house for Male and Female... one
toilet sits all.

On 2024-02-05 18:04:04 +0000, Blueshirt said:

> Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>
>> occam wrote:
>>
>>> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to
>>> the bird lovers in AUE.
>>
>> Very nice. You write "Male/Female", but the signs are actually
>> completely general. They refer only to physiscal equipment.
>
> The way the world is going why not just have toilets for everyone
> these days? One sign, saying "Toilet". No need for little drawings
> of people either. Think of the money it would save!!!
>
> I don't have separate toilets in my house for Male and Female... one
> toilet sits all.

That's also how it is in aeroplanes, buses and trains. It doesn't seem
to create any problems. In France it's not unusual for people to use
the "wrong" toilet when it's necessary (for example when the "right"
one is closed for cleaning).

Apparently it's different in Belgium. Once in a university department
in Brussels the women's toilet was closed for some reason, but my wife
was greeted with horror when she suggested using the men's. In France
no one would raise an eyebrow. Most of the toilets in the bulding where
we worked are unisex.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

In article <l2cn87Feeo8U1@mid.individual.net>,
Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2024-02-05 18:04:04 +0000, Blueshirt said:

> > Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >
> >> occam wrote:
> >>
> >>> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to
> >>> the bird lovers in AUE.
> >>
> >> Very nice. You write "Male/Female", but the signs are actually
> >> completely general. They refer only to physiscal equipment.
> >
> > The way the world is going why not just have toilets for everyone
> > these days? One sign, saying "Toilet". No need for little drawings
> > of people either. Think of the money it would save!!!
> >
> > I don't have separate toilets in my house for Male and Female... one
> > toilet sits all.

> That's also how it is in aeroplanes, buses and trains. It doesn't seem
> to create any problems. In France it's not unusual for people to use
> the "wrong" toilet when it's necessary (for example when the "right"
> one is closed for cleaning).

> Apparently it's different in Belgium. Once in a university department
> in Brussels the women's toilet was closed for some reason, but my wife
> was greeted with horror when she suggested using the men's. In France
> no one would raise an eyebrow. Most of the toilets in the bulding where
> we worked are unisex.

On looking round our new office premises, we spotted a shower room with a
"unisex" (man/woman) symbol. One of the female secretaries asked, in
horror, "Does that mean you have to take a boy in with you?"

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 05/02/2024 17:26, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 5:30:35 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
>> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
>> bird lovers in AUE.
>>
>> There was a thread while ago discussing the symbolism of toilet signs in
>> different cultures.
>>
>>
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9jieh8djrjs10lr54scwx/Toilet-sign.jpg?rlkey=5loulys3ydnlcvkcmcp4zcxqo&dl=0>
>
> Cute.
>
> I suppose somebody somewhere has used a rooster and a cat.
>

You mean 'cock' and 'pussy'. Note, these mental images which only make
sense in English. Just as images of 'Venus' and 'Mars' only make sense
in astronomy department toilets.

I wonder if there are any universal symbols understood by everyone, by
which I mean everyone on Earth.

On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 18:33:38 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
<gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

>Paul Carmichael wrote:
>
>>>> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
>>>> bird lovers in AUE.
>>>
>>> Very nice. You write "Male/Female", but the signs are actually
>>> completely general. They refer only to physiscal equipment.
>>
>> Well, you have me confused. I mean, it's American, but I believe they use
>> the word pecker to mean willy. What men have. The other one is what women
>> have.
>>
>> Or have I been whooshed?
>
>I don't know. I just meant that in these days where some people do not
>want to be called "man" or "woman", they would like a sign that doesn't
>use those words.

The signs are there to direct the person the appropriate toilet. I
doubt, when needing to go to the toilet, they will stop to object to
being gendered.

On 2024-02-05 19:28:50 +0000, occam said:

> On 05/02/2024 17:26, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 5:30:35 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
>>> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
>>> bird lovers in AUE.
>>>
>>> There was a thread while ago discussing the symbolism of toilet signs in
>>> different cultures.
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9jieh8djrjs10lr54scwx/Toilet-sign.jpg?rlkey=5loulys3ydnlcvkcmcp4zcxqo&dl=0>
>>>
>>
>> Cute.
>>
>> I suppose somebody somewhere has used a rooster and a cat.
>>
>
> You mean 'cock' and 'pussy'.

"Chatte" would be OK in French, but not "coq".

> Note, these mental images which only make
> sense in English. Just as images of 'Venus' and 'Mars' only make sense
> in astronomy department toilets.
>
> I wonder if there are any universal symbols understood by everyone, by
> which I mean everyone on Earth.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 12:28:55 PM UTC-7, occam wrote:
> On 05/02/2024 17:26, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 5:30:35 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
> >> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
> >> bird lovers in AUE.
> >>
> >> There was a thread while ago discussing the symbolism of toilet signs in
> >> different cultures.
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9jieh8djrjs10lr54scwx/Toilet-sign.jpg?rlkey=5loulys3ydnlcvkcmcp4zcxqo&dl=0>
> >
> > Cute.
> >
> > I suppose somebody somewhere has used a rooster and a cat.
> >
> You mean 'cock' and 'pussy'.

Well spotted. I didn't want to be taken figuratively.

> Note, these mental images which only make
> sense in English.

A couple of gray cells are connecting... I'm searching... here it is, a note
by Dudley Fitts on his translation of Aristophanes' /The Birds/:

"26: Bird of Araby: This is the Cock, the Persian Bird, here called Mêdos
'the Median'. (The phallic pun is the same in Greek as in English.)"

You'd know whether the pun still works in modern Greek.

> Just as images of 'Venus' and 'Mars' only make sense
> in astronomy department toilets.

:-)

> I wonder if there are any universal symbols understood by everyone, by
> which I mean everyone on Earth.

The graphics would probably be a little too graphic.

--
Jerry Friedman

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 8:46:13 AM UTC-8, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 9:01:21 AM UTC-7, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> > El Mon, 05 Feb 2024 13:47:56 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen escribió:
> >
> > > occam wrote:
> > >
> > >> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
> > >> bird lovers in AUE.
> > >
> > > Very nice. You write "Male/Female", but the signs are actually
> > > completely general. They refer only to physiscal equipment.
> > Well, you have me confused. I mean, it's American, but I believe they use
> > the word pecker to mean willy. What men have. The other one is what women
> > have.
> ...
>
> Not so sure it's American. All the tits shown are British, and we call related
> birds titmice and chickadees. The woodpeckers are hard to see, but I think
> they're all European.
>
The northern flicker, a largish and attractive woodpecker, is definitely native
across southern Canada. There is at least one pair in my immediate neighbourhood.
We often see them -- but always one at a time -- on the narrow strip of grass outside
our apartment windows, pecking for ants, grubs and the occasional earthworm..
This being Vancouver, they're here year-round; I don't know about elsewhere in Canada.
Wikip says they're native all the way down to Central America.

bill

occam <occam@erewhon.nix> wrote:

> On 05/02/2024 17:26, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 5:30:35?AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
> >> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
> >> bird lovers in AUE.
> >>
> >> There was a thread while ago discussing the symbolism of toilet signs in
> >> different cultures.
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9jieh8djrjs10lr54scwx/Toilet-sign.jpg?rlkey
=5loulys3ydnlcvkcmcp4zcxqo&dl=0>
> >
> > Cute.
> >
> > I suppose somebody somewhere has used a rooster and a cat.
> >
>
> You mean 'cock' and 'pussy'. Note, these mental images which only make
> sense in English. Just as images of 'Venus' and 'Mars' only make sense
> in astronomy department toilets.

???
The traditional astronomical/astrological symbols for Venus and Mars
(circle with cross below and circle with diagonal up arrow)
have been widely taken over as male/female symbols,
in all of 'western' culture,

Jan

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 2:16:51 PM UTC-7, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 8:46:13 AM UTC-8, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 9:01:21 AM UTC-7, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> > > El Mon, 05 Feb 2024 13:47:56 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen escribió:
> > >
> > > > occam wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Here's an unusual 'Male/Female' toilet sign. It should appeal to the
> > > >> bird lovers in AUE.
> > > >
> > > > Very nice. You write "Male/Female", but the signs are actually
> > > > completely general. They refer only to physiscal equipment.
>
> > > Well, you have me confused. I mean, it's American, but I believe they use
> > > the word pecker to mean willy. What men have. The other one is what women
> > > have.
> > ...
> >
> > Not so sure it's American. All the tits shown are British, and we call related
> > birds titmice and chickadees. The woodpeckers are hard to see, but I think
> > they're all European.
> >
> The northern flicker, a largish and attractive woodpecker, is definitely native
> across southern Canada. There is at least one pair in my immediate neighbourhood.
> We often see them -- but always one at a time -- on the narrow strip of grass outside
> our apartment windows, pecking for ants, grubs and the occasional earthworm.
> This being Vancouver, they're here year-round; I don't know about elsewhere in Canada.
> Wikip says they're native all the way down to Central America.

I meant all the woodpecker species in the image occam showed.

<https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9jieh8djrjs10lr54scwx/Toilet-sign.jpg?rlkey=5loulys3ydnlcvkcmcp4zcxqo&dl=0>

--
Jerry Friedman

Tony Cooper wrote:

>>I don't know. I just meant that in these days where some people do not
>>want to be called "man" or "woman", they would like a sign that doesn't
>>use those words.
>
> The signs are there to direct the person the appropriate toilet. I
> doubt, when needing to go to the toilet, they will stop to object to
> being gendered.

True. I'm looking forward to the day where there's only one kind of
toilet rooms.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Blueshirt wrote:

> The way the world is going why not just have toilets for everyone
> these days? One sign, saying "Toilet". No need for little drawings
> of people either. Think of the money it would save!!!

+1

I have actually tried it because I rented a room at a camping site, and
the room was in their oldest building with two bathrooms common for all
the rooms. There were no signs, but helpful people had written "mænd"
and "kvinder" on the door frames - only there had been many helpful
people, and they had different oppinions about what was the men's and
the women's room, so the users were mixed. The shovers were in cubicles
with curtains.

--
Bertel, Denmark

occam wrote:

> You mean 'cock' and 'pussy'. Note, these mental images which only make
> sense in English. Just as images of 'Venus' and 'Mars' only make sense
> in astronomy department toilets.

.... and to people who know the most basic about ancient Roman or Greek
religion.

> I wonder if there are any universal symbols understood by everyone, by
> which I mean everyone on Earth.

A simple drawing of persons with with genitals would do the trick.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

>>> I suppose somebody somewhere has used a rooster and a cat.
>>>
>>
>> You mean 'cock' and 'pussy'.
>
> "Chatte" would be OK in French, but not "coq".

They wouldn't perhaps get the penis meaning, but surely the male one?

--
Bertel, Denmark

On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 23:31:22 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
<gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

>Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>>>I don't know. I just meant that in these days where some people do not
>>>want to be called "man" or "woman", they would like a sign that doesn't
>>>use those words.
>>
>> The signs are there to direct the person the appropriate toilet. I
>> doubt, when needing to go to the toilet, they will stop to object to
>> being gendered.
>
>True. I'm looking forward to the day where there's only one kind of
>toilet rooms.

That's rarely an issue for men. Women, however, often object to
unisex bathrooms. With cause.

On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 23:37:25 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
<gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

>Blueshirt wrote:
>
>> The way the world is going why not just have toilets for everyone
>> these days? One sign, saying "Toilet". No need for little drawings
>> of people either. Think of the money it would save!!!
>
>+1
>
>I have actually tried it because I rented a room at a camping site, and
>the room was in their oldest building with two bathrooms common for all
>the rooms. There were no signs, but helpful people had written "mænd"
>and "kvinder" on the door frames - only there had been many helpful
>people, and they had different oppinions about what was the men's and
>the women's room, so the users were mixed. The shovers were in cubicles
>with curtains.

Whom did they shove?

On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 23:41:01 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
<gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

>occam wrote:
>
>> You mean 'cock' and 'pussy'. Note, these mental images which only make
>> sense in English. Just as images of 'Venus' and 'Mars' only make sense
>> in astronomy department toilets.
>
>... and to people who know the most basic about ancient Roman or Greek
>religion.
>
>> I wonder if there are any universal symbols understood by everyone, by
>> which I mean everyone on Earth.
>
>A simple drawing of persons with with genitals would do the trick.

The traditional symbols in the US are stick figures with the female in
a skirt.

The Scottish Games are held in this area every year. The Scots males
consider both signs to be unisex.

On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 23:41:01 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
<gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

>occam wrote:
>
>> You mean 'cock' and 'pussy'. Note, these mental images which only make
>> sense in English. Just as images of 'Venus' and 'Mars' only make sense
>> in astronomy department toilets.
>
>... and to people who know the most basic about ancient Roman or Greek
>religion.
>
>> I wonder if there are any universal symbols understood by everyone, by
>> which I mean everyone on Earth.
>
>A simple drawing of persons with with genitals would do the trick.

Data analysis I performed were most often dealing with rating scales.

In my day, the personal information of "sex" was coded as binary, M
and F. Most often these were coded as 1 and 2 -- Zero was avoided
as a numerical response on arbitrary scales, possibly owing to the
Fortran data-reading convention that a blank numeric field
("missing"?) is translated as 0. (I saw one convention, circa 1972,
where the blank= zero was disambiguated from other zero by
making use the "-0" defined on one line of computers.)

However -- How do you code M and F if you will use 0/1?

"DREAM INTERPRETATION Simplified. Everything's either concave or -vex,
so whatever you dream will be something with sex. Piet Hein."

I had to object when a saw a proposed data collection form
where 0= Male, 1= Female. Respect the symbolism.

I might or might not have already been familiar with the obscene
hand signal, where a forefinger is poked into the circle formed
by the other thumb and forefinger. IIRC, that was well-known
in South America. I think it is wider than that, now.

--
Rich Ulrich

On 06/02/24 12:23, Rich Ulrich wrote:

> I might or might not have already been familiar with the obscene
> hand signal, where a forefinger is poked into the circle formed
> by the other thumb and forefinger. IIRC, that was well-known
> in South America. I think it is wider than that, now.

It was common where I grew up, in Australia.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW