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aus+uk / uk.media.radio.archers / Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

SubjectAuthor
* OT: Energy useBrritSki
+* OT: Energy useJohn Ashby
|`* OT: Energy useBrritSki
| `- OT: Energy usekrw
+* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
|+* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||+- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||+* OT: Energy use!)!)Clive Arthur
|||`- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||`* OT: Energy use!)!)BrritSki
|| +- OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
|| `* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||  `* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||   +* OT: Energy use!)!)John Ashby
||   |`* OT: Energy use!)!)Joe Kerr
||   | `* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||   |  +- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||   |  +* OT: Energy use!)!)Vicky
||   |  |`* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||   |  | `- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||   |  `* OT: Energy use!)!)krw
||   |   `* OT: Energy use!)!)Rosie Mitchell
||   |    `- OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
||   `* OT: Energy use!)!)Vicky
||    +* OT: Energy use!)!)Kate B
||    |`- OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
||    `* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris
||     +* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||     |`- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||     `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||      +* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||      |`- OT: Energy use!)!)Clive Arthur
||      `* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||       `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||        `* OT: Energy use!)!)Clive Arthur
||         `* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||          `* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||           `* OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
||            +* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris
||            |`* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            | `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |  `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   +* OT: Energy use!)!)Jenny M Benson
||            |   |+* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   ||`- OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   |+* OT: Energy use!)!)Serena Blanchflower
||            |   ||`- OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   |`* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris
||            |   | `- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   +* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||            |   |+* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   ||`* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   || `* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||            |   ||  `* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||            |   ||   +- OT: Energy use!)!)John Ashby
||            |   ||   +* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   ||   |`* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||            |   ||   | `* OT: Energy use!)!)Jenny M Benson
||            |   ||   |  +* OT: Energy use!)!)Vicky
||            |   ||   |  |`* OT: ad.sJ. P. Gilliver
||            |   ||   |  | `* OT: ad.sJenny M Benson
||            |   ||   |  |  `- OT: ad.sJ. P. Gilliver
||            |   ||   |  `- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   ||   +* OT: Energy use!)!)Jim Easterbrook
||            |   ||   |+- OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   ||   |+* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||            |   ||   ||`* OT: Energy use!)!)Jim Easterbrook
||            |   ||   || +- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   ||   || +* OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
||            |   ||   || |`- OT: Energy use!)!)krw
||            |   ||   || `* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||            |   ||   ||  `* OT: Energy use!)!)Jim Easterbrook
||            |   ||   ||   +* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   ||   ||   |+* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||            |   ||   ||   ||`- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   ||   ||   |`- OT: Energy use!)!)Joe Kerr
||            |   ||   ||   `* OT: Energy use!)!)BrritSki
||            |   ||   ||    `- OT: Energy use!)!)Jim Easterbrook
||            |   ||   |`* OT: Energy use!)!)krw
||            |   ||   | `- OT: Energy use!)!)Joe Kerr
||            |   ||   `- OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||            |   |`* OT: Energy use!)!)John Ashby
||            |   | `- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   +* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||            |   |`- OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   +* OT: Energy use!)!)Joe Kerr
||            |   |`* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   | `* OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
||            |   |  `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   |   `* OT: Energy use!)!)Iain Archer
||            |   |    +- OT: Energy use!)!) - now video downloadersJ. P. Gilliver
||            |   |    `* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||            |   |     `- OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   `* OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
||            |    `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |     `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |      `* OT: Energy use!)!)Iain Archer
||            |       `- OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            `* OT: Energy use!)!)krw
||             `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||              `* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
|`- OT: Energy use!)!)BrritSki
+* OT: Energy useChris J Dixon
`* OT: Energy useSally Thompson

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Re: OT: Energy use

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From: toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 08:55:18 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 08:55 UTC

Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
> On 09/12/2023 17:06, Mike McMillan wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Just checked our consumption on this very mild day and over the last 16
>> hours, our heat pump consumption has averaged 625 watt/h.
>
> As you know, a watt is a unit of power. Power is the rate at which
> energy is used or generated, for example, a 2kW heater uses energy twice
> as quickly as a 1kW heater and gives out twice as much heat.
>
> A watt per hour (watt/h as you put it) is rate of change of power - not
> really a useful unit in this context, and certainly not germane to power
> consumption.
>
> A watt-hour (watts x hours) is a unit of energy. Power used times the
> amount of time it was used for. Energy is what you pay for, or what you
> generate, or what a battery stores. The proper SI unit is joules or
> watt-seconds, but watt-hours is maybe more convenient.
>
> To lift, say, a 1 tonne weight up 1 meter needs a certain amount of
> energy, approx 10kJ or 2.6 watt-hours[1]. You can do that (assuming
> mechanical perfection) slowly or quickly, using low power for a long
> time or high power for a short time, but the energy required is the same.
>
> So I suspect your heat pump averaged 625 watts over the last 16 hours
> which amounts to 10kWh.
>
> [1] Interesting to note that lifting say a 2T car up 100m uses a bit
> over half a kWh costing about 16p. I wouldn't do it for that.
>

Or on my tariff, 8.2505p. (Very approx.).

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: OT: Energy use

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From: chris@cdixon.me.uk (Chris J Dixon)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use
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 by: Chris J Dixon - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:55 UTC

Sally Thompson wrote:

>we are delighted with the solar panels. I have an EV so we are on an EV
>electrickery tariff which gives very low cost in the bowels of the night,
>so as well as charging the car if needed, we also put dishwasher and
>washing machine on a timer to take advantage of that. However if we're
>generating enough from the panels, I would put the washing machine on or
>indeed leave the car plugged in. Very satisfying when it does a little
>"ping" and tops up the car from the panels.

Quite so! BOFE's car was not used much in June, and the 284 miles
were achieved entirely powered by solar. :-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: joe_kerr@cheerful.com (Joe Kerr)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: Joe Kerr - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 10:01 UTC

On 09/12/2023 18:01, John Ashby wrote:
> On 09/12/2023 17:37, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I was very green (but in the wrong way) in the 2000’s when we needed
>>> a new
>>> Bas Goiler; the BG salesman / surveyor was able to provide a condensing
>>> boiler - no problem but…. What he didn’t tell us was that the boiler
>>> would
>>> be fitted set to 16 kWh/h whether we needed 6-8-10-12 or whatever kW
>>> rating. Neither were we told that there was just one temperature
>>> controller
>>> - for hot water and heating. The result of a single control being
>>> that we
>>> could not set the radiators for anything less than the requirement
>>> for the
>>> hot water temperature. :-(((  Over the years, Gritish Bas raised the
>>> annual
>>> service contract fee and though the servicing was described as
>>> ‘annual’ to
>>> them, this meant every 18-24 months as and when they felt inclined to
>>> ‘fit
>>> us in’. I was not amused and was very glad to remove our needs from
>>> their
>>> clutches eventually.
>>>
>>
>> Mined Ewe, that system was better than the very first system we had
>> installed at our previous Toodle Villas in the seventies, it was a
>> ‘Servowarm’ system. One delightful ‘feature’ was the three way valve
>> with a
>> rocking lever used to send the energy to the heating or the hot water.
>> Any
>> attempt to have a mixture resulted in an horrendous noise due to
>> turbulence
>> in the valve. The outcome being that one needed to select one route or
>> the
>> other and remember to change over so as to have a warm house and hot
>> water!
>> Just don’t get me started about the very lightweight (supposedly for fast
>> response to heat demand) heat exchanger which had burning gas applied
>> seconds before the pump got going to circulate the energy, and as a
>> result,
>> scaled up the heat exchanger body so that it ‘kettled’. We had quite a
>> few
>> hx’s in the first year of life!
>>
>
> I may have mentioned before the hot water system in the first house I
> ever bought (heating was by night storage heaters ,remember them?). The
> hhot water was supplied by a gas Ascot which was situated above the
> toilet in the bathroom. This had the unfortunate habit of delaying
> ignition until there had been a sufficient build-up of gas to blow the
> front panel off.If you were sitting on the toilet and your partner
> decided to do the washing up you cold receive a nasty blow on the back
> of your head from a kilogram of mild steel plate.
>
> john

I wish I could forget storage heaters. I once worked in an office
equipped with them. (Don't ask.) At five o'clock we had to take a guess
at what the weather would be like the next day, or on Monday. We got it
wrong far more often than right. Now I have the modern, "clever"
versions at home that, despite all attempts at adjustment, are experts
at warming the place when I want it cool and leaving it cold when I want
it warm.

As for your Ascot: I found that far more entertaining than I'm sure you did.

--
Ric

Re: OT: Energy use

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From: rtilburyTAKEOUT@gmail.com (BrritSki)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use
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 by: BrritSki - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 10:50 UTC

On 10/12/2023 08:18, Sally Thompson wrote:
>
> I'm with you on the batteries. I did the big sums and decided it wasn't
> worth the extra (large) outlay. The heat pump is great and efficient, and
> we are delighted with the solar panels. I have an EV so we are on an EV
> electrickery tariff which gives very low cost in the bowels of the night,
> so as well as charging the car if needed, we also put dishwasher and
> washing machine on a timer to take advantage of that. However if we're
> generating enough from the panels, I would put the washing machine on or
> indeed leave the car plugged in. Very satisfying when it does a little
> "ping" and tops up the car from the panels.
>
We thought hard about getting a hybrid so we could recharge it during
the day from solar, but eventually decided against. Stories of
increasing insurance premiums for EVs didn;t help, nor the possibility
(probability according to some) that the Luton fire started in a hybrid
Evoque.

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk (Kate B)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 11:42:04 +0000
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 by: Kate B - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 11:42 UTC

On 09/12/2023 18:08, Vicky wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 17:37:53 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> Mined Ewe, that system was better than the very first system we had
>> installed at our previous Toodle Villas in the seventies, it was a
>> ‘Servowarm’ system. One delightful ‘feature’ was the three way valve with a
>> rocking lever used to send the energy to the heating or the hot water. Any
>> attempt to have a mixture resulted in an horrendous noise due to turbulence
>> in the valve. The outcome being that one needed to select one route or the
>> other and remember to change over so as to have a warm house and hot water!
>> Just don’t get me started about the very lightweight (supposedly for fast
>> response to heat demand) heat exchanger which had burning gas applied
>> seconds before the pump got going to circulate the energy, and as a result,
>> scaled up the heat exchanger body so that it ‘kettled’. We had quite a few
>> hx’s in the first year of life!
>
>
> Ah, boilers I have known.....We had a Servowarm at one time. Was that
> the one in the form of a gas fire with boiler behind/attached? The
> memory is misty, probably a good thing. I know with more than one
> boiler the flame would go out and have to be re-lit to make it do its
> thing.

Here I have a new-fangled Alpha boiler controlled from my phone which it
has taken me over a year to get used to.

I miss the old system in the London house, which was a pair of
fifty-year-old Ideal Mexico boilers set up to fire in rotation (or
together if needed), controlled by a Drayton box which balanced external
and internal temperature readings to keep the house steady at whichever
temperature was required. We too had a three-way valve but it just
controlled the heating, the hot water had separate piping.

The Drayton box was monumentally sophisticated (I think it was actually
an industrial unit) and had the bewilderingly nested menus of a nineties
mobile phone. My husband the engineer spent many delightful hours
tweaking lags, hystereses, and compensation flows. Oh how we shivered,
or boiled, when the Fat Controller had a fit of the vapours and invented
wild sensor readings. There was only one gas engineer in south London
who knew how the boilers worked and who could fashion replacement bits.
I often wonder how the people who bought the house are managing, but
dare not ask...

--
Kate B

Re: OT: Energy use

<87h6kqqiux.fsf@golgonooza.co.uk>

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From: rcmitchell@golgonooza.co.uk (Rosie Mitchell)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 13:37:10 +0000
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 by: Rosie Mitchell - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 13:37 UTC

Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> writes:

> On 09/12/2023 17:06, Mike McMillan wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Just checked our consumption on this very mild day and over the last 16
>> hours, our heat pump consumption has averaged 625 watt/h.
>
> As you know, a watt is a unit of power. Power is the rate at which
> energy is used or generated, for example, a 2kW heater uses energy
> twice as quickly as a 1kW heater and gives out twice as much heat.

Watts are kg m² s¯³ (kilogram metres squared per second cubed although
as they are named after a Greenock lad, effin' kilogram effin' metres
effin' squared per effin' second effin' squared pal).

> A watt per hour (watt/h as you put it) is rate of change of power -
> not really a useful unit in this context, and certainly not germane to
> power consumption.

My head starts hurting with the mixed units but I make that 1/3,600
kilogram metres squared per second to the fourth.

>
> A watt-hour (watts x hours) is a unit of energy. Power used times the
> amount of time it was used for. Energy is what you pay for, or what
> you generate, or what a battery stores. The proper SI unit is joules
> or watt-seconds, but watt-hours is maybe more convenient.

3,600 kilogram metres squared per second squared.

Followers of cycle road racing will be familiar with watts per kilogram
or metres squared per second cubed.

Rosie

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:35:58 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Chris - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:35 UTC

Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 17:37:53 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> Mined Ewe, that system was better than the very first system we had
>> installed at our previous Toodle Villas in the seventies, it was a
>> ‘Servowarm’ system. One delightful ‘feature’ was the three way valve with a
>> rocking lever used to send the energy to the heating or the hot water. Any
>> attempt to have a mixture resulted in an horrendous noise due to turbulence
>> in the valve. The outcome being that one needed to select one route or the
>> other and remember to change over so as to have a warm house and hot water!
>> Just don’t get me started about the very lightweight (supposedly for fast
>> response to heat demand) heat exchanger which had burning gas applied
>> seconds before the pump got going to circulate the energy, and as a result,
>> scaled up the heat exchanger body so that it ‘kettled’. We had quite a few
>> hx’s in the first year of life!
>
>
> Ah, boilers I have known.....We had a Servowarm at one time. Was that
> the one in the form of a gas fire with boiler behind/attached? The
> memory is misty, probably a good thing. I know with more than one
> boiler the flame would go out and have to be re-lit to make it do its
> thing.
>

No Vicky. McT Towers never lived with this type of set up

Mrs McT

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 16:02 UTC

Chris <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 17:37:53 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
>> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Mined Ewe, that system was better than the very first system we had
>>> installed at our previous Toodle Villas in the seventies, it was a
>>> ‘Servowarm’ system. One delightful ‘feature’ was the three way valve with a
>>> rocking lever used to send the energy to the heating or the hot water. Any
>>> attempt to have a mixture resulted in an horrendous noise due to turbulence
>>> in the valve. The outcome being that one needed to select one route or the
>>> other and remember to change over so as to have a warm house and hot water!
>>> Just don’t get me started about the very lightweight (supposedly for fast
>>> response to heat demand) heat exchanger which had burning gas applied
>>> seconds before the pump got going to circulate the energy, and as a result,
>>> scaled up the heat exchanger body so that it ‘kettled’. We had quite a few
>>> hx’s in the first year of life!
>>
>>
>> Ah, boilers I have known.....We had a Servowarm at one time. Was that
>> the one in the form of a gas fire with boiler behind/attached? The
>> memory is misty, probably a good thing. I know with more than one
>> boiler the flame would go out and have to be re-lit to make it do its
>> thing.
>>
>
> No Vicky. McT Towers never lived with this type of set up
>
> Mrs McT
>
>

Back boilers ‘R’ NOT Us!

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: OT: Energy use

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 by: krw - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 16:05 UTC

On 10.12.23 10:50, BrritSki wrote:
> nor the possibility (probability according to some) that the Luton fire
> started in a hybrid Evoque.

I believe the fire service confirmed that the fire commenced in diesel
powered vehicle.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 16:09 UTC

Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
> Chris <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 17:37:53 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
>>> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mined Ewe, that system was better than the very first system we had
>>>> installed at our previous Toodle Villas in the seventies, it was a
>>>> ‘Servowarm’ system. One delightful ‘feature’ was the three way valve with a
>>>> rocking lever used to send the energy to the heating or the hot water. Any
>>>> attempt to have a mixture resulted in an horrendous noise due to turbulence
>>>> in the valve. The outcome being that one needed to select one route or the
>>>> other and remember to change over so as to have a warm house and hot water!
>>>> Just don’t get me started about the very lightweight (supposedly for fast
>>>> response to heat demand) heat exchanger which had burning gas applied
>>>> seconds before the pump got going to circulate the energy, and as a result,
>>>> scaled up the heat exchanger body so that it ‘kettled’. We had quite a few
>>>> hx’s in the first year of life!
>>>
>>>
>>> Ah, boilers I have known.....We had a Servowarm at one time. Was that
>>> the one in the form of a gas fire with boiler behind/attached? The
>>> memory is misty, probably a good thing. I know with more than one
>>> boiler the flame would go out and have to be re-lit to make it do its
>>> thing.
>>>
>>
>> No Vicky. McT Towers never lived with this type of set up
>>
>> Mrs McT
>>
>>
>
> Back boilers ‘R’ NOT Us!
>

Though having said that… in 1954 we moved into a brand new council house
and in those days, there was a chimmunee that came into the centre of the
living room where one could light a fire in the winter - you could also
light a fire in the summer - you needed to light a fire in the summer too -
unless you cared to go without any hot water. Coal fired back boiler was
the flavour of that house design.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: OT: Energy use

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 by: Ben Blaney - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 16:10 UTC

On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 12:28:04 PM UTC-5, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> BrritSki wrote:
>
> BOFE now has an electric car, which has increased our demand
> somewhat.

I don't have solar, but we do have an electric car. To my amazement, after we got it, there was barely a noticeable increase in our utilities bill. To be fair, that car is used by Mrs B, who has a commute of 4 miles.

Re: OT: Energy use

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 by: Mike McMillan - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 16:10 UTC

krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
> On 10.12.23 10:50, BrritSki wrote:
>> nor the possibility (probability according to some) that the Luton fire
>> started in a hybrid Evoque.
>
> I believe the fire service confirmed that the fire commenced in diesel
> powered vehicle.
>

I further believe that some EV’s were harmed in the fire but had nothing to
do with the original start of the conflagration.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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 by: Chris J Dixon - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 16:22 UTC

Joe Kerr wrote:

>I wish I could forget storage heaters. I once worked in an office
>equipped with them. (Don't ask.) At five o'clock we had to take a guess
>at what the weather would be like the next day, or on Monday. We got it
>wrong far more often than right. Now I have the modern, "clever"
>versions at home that, despite all attempts at adjustment, are experts
>at warming the place when I want it cool and leaving it cold when I want
>it warm.

I was once in a office where the secretary sat alongside a
storage heater. She perpetually complained that it was not doing
what it should, but we dismissed it as not understanding its
proper use.

Eventually investigation showed that some "sophisticated energy
management" had got its knickers in a twist, and was about 12
hours out of step.

>As for your Ascot: I found that far more entertaining than I'm sure you did.

I once spent a few weeks in a grotty flat in darkest Salford (so
long ago that Salford Van Hire only hired vans in Salford) (1)
with a temperamental water heater which gave astonishing
explosions whenever you tried to use it, no matter what technique
you employed.

In the end I bequeathed it a Dymo label:

"To avoid explosions, turn tap on quickly. Or was it slowly?"

(1) The cinema slide advertising them showed three of their vans
on the adjacent cobbled street, where I lived for a few months.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

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 by: Mike McMillan - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 16:41 UTC

Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
> Joe Kerr wrote:
>
>> I wish I could forget storage heaters. I once worked in an office
>> equipped with them. (Don't ask.) At five o'clock we had to take a guess
>> at what the weather would be like the next day, or on Monday. We got it
>> wrong far more often than right. Now I have the modern, "clever"
>> versions at home that, despite all attempts at adjustment, are experts
>> at warming the place when I want it cool and leaving it cold when I want
>> it warm.
>
> I was once in a office where the secretary sat alongside a
> storage heater. She perpetually complained that it was not doing
> what it should, but we dismissed it as not understanding its
> proper use.
>
> Eventually investigation showed that some "sophisticated energy
> management" had got its knickers in a twist, and was about 12
> hours out of step.
>
>> As for your Ascot: I found that far more entertaining than I'm sure you did.
>
> I once spent a few weeks in a grotty flat in darkest Salford (so
> long ago that Salford Van Hire only hired vans in Salford) (1)
> with a temperamental water heater which gave astonishing
> explosions whenever you tried to use it, no matter what technique
> you employed.
>
> In the end I bequeathed it a Dymo label:
>
> "To avoid explosions, turn tap on quickly. Or was it slowly?"
>
> (1) The cinema slide advertising them showed three of their vans
> on the adjacent cobbled street, where I lived for a few months.
>
> Chris

I have just been comparing Octopus Energy Tariffs for the next 24 hours; we
switched to ‘Cosy’ a few weeks back and this tariff has 2 x 3 hours ‘dips’
spaced 6 hours apart during the day. This ‘spacing’ is very convenient as
it allows for battery storage to be topped up spread over the two ‘windows’
if required. We were on Agile tariff before this and since swapping, there
have only been 4 or 5 days where there has been some hours on a lower price
per kW/h; today being one. I am of the opinion that we are better off
staying where we are as the Agile hours are generally all lumped together
and then the other 18 or 20 hours are more expensive by a considerable
amount. Just thought I’d mention it.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: OT: Energy use

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Subject: Re: OT: Energy use
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 by: Vicky - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 18:05 UTC

On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 10:50:04 +0000, BrritSki
<rtilburyTAKEOUT@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 10/12/2023 08:18, Sally Thompson wrote:
>>
>> I'm with you on the batteries. I did the big sums and decided it wasn't
>> worth the extra (large) outlay. The heat pump is great and efficient, and
>> we are delighted with the solar panels. I have an EV so we are on an EV
>> electrickery tariff which gives very low cost in the bowels of the night,
>> so as well as charging the car if needed, we also put dishwasher and
>> washing machine on a timer to take advantage of that. However if we're
>> generating enough from the panels, I would put the washing machine on or
>> indeed leave the car plugged in. Very satisfying when it does a little
>> "ping" and tops up the car from the panels.
>>
>We thought hard about getting a hybrid so we could recharge it during
>the day from solar, but eventually decided against. Stories of
>increasing insurance premiums for EVs didn;t help, nor the possibility
>(probability according to some) that the Luton fire started in a hybrid
>Evoque.

We had a hybrid that I liked a lot and then b wanted all electric.
This is ok if you don't drive long distances and can charge from home,
although Sainsburys next door has just installed a whole row of fast
chargers that will do a whole charge in 10 mins while you are in
Costa, McD or Greggs new cafe, and Asda opposite has had 2 slow ones
for a few years. In both the hybrid and all E i love that on cold
mornings I can heat the car with a phone command before I go out to
it.

Re: OT: Energy use

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 by: Vicky - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 18:10 UTC

On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 08:10:38 -0800 (PST), Ben Blaney
<benblaney@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 12:28:04?PM UTC-5, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>> BrritSki wrote:
>>
>> BOFE now has an electric car, which has increased our demand
>> somewhat.
>
>I don't have solar, but we do have an electric car. To my amazement, after we got it, there was barely a noticeable increase in our utilities bill. To be fair, that car is used by Mrs B, who has a commute of 4 miles.

I, too, was mostly just going 5 miles to swim daily, until I broke my
nuggering arm, and now haven't driven since October, with no chance
until after physio signs me off as legal to drive, and that doesn't
begin until 20/12. They turned out to be picky about using both
hands, the Dr said.

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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 by: Vicky - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 18:15 UTC

On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 16:22:39 +0000, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk>
wrote:

>Joe Kerr wrote:
>
>>As for your Ascot: I found that far more entertaining than I'm sure you did.
>
>I once spent a few weeks in a grotty flat in darkest Salford (so
>long ago that Salford Van Hire only hired vans in Salford) (1)
>with a temperamental water heater which gave astonishing
>explosions whenever you tried to use it, no matter what technique
>you employed.
>
>In the end I bequeathed it a Dymo label:
>
>"To avoid explosions, turn tap on quickly. Or was it slowly?"
>
>(1) The cinema slide advertising them showed three of their vans
>on the adjacent cobbled street, where I lived for a few months.
>
>Chris

My mum had an ascot for many years in her rented flat and it just did
water I think and was fine. The coal-fired heating was included with
the rent and we kept toasty from when they turned it on, I think it
was October, until it went off. There were electric fires in the
living room and mum's bedroom, but not in mine.

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 19:51 UTC

On 10-Dec-23 18:15, Vicky wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 16:22:39 +0000, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Joe Kerr wrote:
>>
>>> As for your Ascot: I found that far more entertaining than I'm sure you did.
>>
>> I once spent a few weeks in a grotty flat in darkest Salford (so
>> long ago that Salford Van Hire only hired vans in Salford) (1)
>> with a temperamental water heater which gave astonishing
>> explosions whenever you tried to use it, no matter what technique
>> you employed.
>>
>> In the end I bequeathed it a Dymo label:
>>
>> "To avoid explosions, turn tap on quickly. Or was it slowly?"
>>
>> (1) The cinema slide advertising them showed three of their vans
>> on the adjacent cobbled street, where I lived for a few months.
>>
>> Chris
>
> My mum had an ascot for many years in her rented flat and it just did
> water I think and was fine. The coal-fired heating was included with
> the rent and we kept toasty from when they turned it on, I think it
> was October, until it went off. There were electric fires in the
> living room and mum's bedroom, but not in mine.

This thread reminds me of the school's 'method', which was to start up
the heating on a certain date on the calendar - heedless of the actual
weather.

Oh how we boiled/froze.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: OT: Energy use

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 19:53 UTC

On 10-Dec-23 8:55, Mike McMillan wrote:
> Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 09/12/2023 17:06, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Just checked our consumption on this very mild day and over the last 16
>>> hours, our heat pump consumption has averaged 625 watt/h.
>>
>> As you know, a watt is a unit of power. Power is the rate at which
>> energy is used or generated, for example, a 2kW heater uses energy twice
>> as quickly as a 1kW heater and gives out twice as much heat.
>>
>> A watt per hour (watt/h as you put it) is rate of change of power - not
>> really a useful unit in this context, and certainly not germane to power
>> consumption.
>>
>> A watt-hour (watts x hours) is a unit of energy. Power used times the
>> amount of time it was used for. Energy is what you pay for, or what you
>> generate, or what a battery stores. The proper SI unit is joules or
>> watt-seconds, but watt-hours is maybe more convenient.
>>
>> To lift, say, a 1 tonne weight up 1 meter needs a certain amount of
>> energy, approx 10kJ or 2.6 watt-hours[1]. You can do that (assuming
>> mechanical perfection) slowly or quickly, using low power for a long
>> time or high power for a short time, but the energy required is the same.
>>
>> So I suspect your heat pump averaged 625 watts over the last 16 hours
>> which amounts to 10kWh.
>>
>> [1] Interesting to note that lifting say a 2T car up 100m uses a bit
>> over half a kWh costing about 16p. I wouldn't do it for that.
>>
>
> Or on my tariff, 8.2505p. (Very approx.).
>
Don't forget the standing charge (you were intending to stand at some
point?)

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: OT: Energy use

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 19:59 UTC

On 10-Dec-23 18:10, Vicky wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 08:10:38 -0800 (PST), Ben Blaney
> <benblaney@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 12:28:04?PM UTC-5, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>> BrritSki wrote:
>>>
>>> BOFE now has an electric car, which has increased our demand
>>> somewhat.
>>
>> I don't have solar, but we do have an electric car. To my amazement, after we got it, there was barely a noticeable increase in our utilities bill. To be fair, that car is used by Mrs B, who has a commute of 4 miles.
>
> I, too, was mostly just going 5 miles to swim daily, until I broke my
> nuggering arm, and now haven't driven since October, with no chance
> until after physio signs me off as legal to drive, and that doesn't
> begin until 20/12. They turned out to be picky about using both
> hands, the Dr said.

There seem to be far more reasons for withholding driving licences these
days.

Wofe has a CPAP machine, and the sleep clinic have now said she is now
OK to drive again after a year's track record shows sufficient 'progress'.
She hasn't actually driven for several years now, but she occasionally
threatens me with the prospect of giving her a refresher course.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: OT: Energy use

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 20:02 UTC

On 10-Dec-23 18:05, Vicky wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 10:50:04 +0000, BrritSki
> <rtilburyTAKEOUT@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2023 08:18, Sally Thompson wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm with you on the batteries. I did the big sums and decided it wasn't
>>> worth the extra (large) outlay. The heat pump is great and efficient, and
>>> we are delighted with the solar panels. I have an EV so we are on an EV
>>> electrickery tariff which gives very low cost in the bowels of the night,
>>> so as well as charging the car if needed, we also put dishwasher and
>>> washing machine on a timer to take advantage of that. However if we're
>>> generating enough from the panels, I would put the washing machine on or
>>> indeed leave the car plugged in. Very satisfying when it does a little
>>> "ping" and tops up the car from the panels.
>>>
>> We thought hard about getting a hybrid so we could recharge it during
>> the day from solar, but eventually decided against. Stories of
>> increasing insurance premiums for EVs didn;t help, nor the possibility
>> (probability according to some) that the Luton fire started in a hybrid
>> Evoque.
>
> We had a hybrid that I liked a lot and then b wanted all electric.
> This is ok if you don't drive long distances and can charge from home,
> although Sainsburys next door has just installed a whole row of fast
> chargers that will do a whole charge in 10 mins while you are in
> Costa, McD or Greggs new cafe, and Asda opposite has had 2 slow ones
> for a few years. In both the hybrid and all E i love that on cold
> mornings I can heat the car with a phone command before I go out to
> it.

Our car is not electric, but at this time of year my favourite feature
is the heated steering wheel, and Wofe is extremely fond of the heated
seats.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: J. P. Gilliver - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:15 UTC

In message <ul4ice$2n4qo$1@dont-email.me> at Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:35:58,
Chris <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> writes
>Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
[]
>> Ah, boilers I have known.....We had a Servowarm at one time. Was that
>> the one in the form of a gas fire with boiler behind/attached? The

I have that sort - the gas fire is entirely separate from the boiler,
and is only used in extreme circumstances.

>> memory is misty, probably a good thing. I know with more than one
>> boiler the flame would go out and have to be re-lit to make it do its
>> thing.
>>
I had that - the pilot light would go out increasingly often. (Initially
I thought it was only when the wind was in a certain direction - I think
initially it was - but eventually it got tedious.) The guy who came to
fix it - he just replaced the unit with the pilot light in it - as a
matter of course took the whole boiler apart and cleaned it; I didn't
mind, I _didn't_ think he was just dong it to up the bill, he seemed a
conscientious chap. I was amazed how clean it was anyway: it certainly
hadn't had any attention since I moved in, which I think was at least
ten years by that point. Natural gas burns very cleanly.

(I think more modern boilers have electric ignition, rather than a pilot
light.)
>
>No Vicky. McT Towers never lived with this type of set up
>
>Mrs McT
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians!

Re: OT: Energy use

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From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver)
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Subject: Re: OT: Energy use
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 by: J. P. Gilliver - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:24 UTC

In message <iModN.449$ogWb.5@fx14.ams1> at Sun, 10 Dec 2023 19:59:09,
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
[]
>There seem to be far more reasons for withholding driving licences
>these days.

When I was diagnosed diabetic and put on insulin, various leaflets said
tell the DVLA, so I was a good boy and did, and they put me on a 3-year
renewal cycle. When diabetes nurse managed to get me off insulin (just
tablets), I asked if I could go back to a normal one (having remembered
that the leaflets/forms said something like "if your diabetes is
controlled purely by tablets, you don't need to tell us" - but of course
I'd got into the cycle), and they did let me. I had to write a covering
letter, mind - there didn't seem to be a form for "I'm no longer on
insulin". But anyway, they did.

(When I got the replacement licence back, it had an expiry date only a
year or so after the 3-year one would have had - but when I rang to ask
what's going on, they pointed out that it was that the photo would
expire then anyway.)
[]
It definitely makes for an uneasy feeling when the threat of removal of
licence hovers. (I'd have to either move or take a very significant
change in lifestyle.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians!

Re: OT: Energy use

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From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver)
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Subject: Re: OT: Energy use
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 by: J. P. Gilliver - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:30 UTC

In message <APodN.450$ogWb.246@fx14.ams1> at Sun, 10 Dec 2023 20:02:39,
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>On 10-Dec-23 18:05, Vicky wrote:
[]
>> for a few years. In both the hybrid and all E i love that on cold
>> mornings I can heat the car with a phone command before I go out to
>> it.

Technically, there's no reason why a fuel-only car can't have this,
though you'd have to be able to remotely start the engine; however, I
think hardly any such _do_ offer it.
>
>Our car is not electric, but at this time of year my favourite feature
>is the heated steering wheel, and Wofe is extremely fond of the heated
>seats.
>
Never had either, but I can see the attraction. Mine dew, modern
steering wheels seem to be made - or at least covered - with something
that makes them not so painful; I definitely remember some of the old
cars I had in the '80s - bare hard plastic or metal, I can't remember
which - having painfully cold steering wheels. (And I think painfully
hot in summer too, though I can't remember that with as much certainty.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians!

Re: OT: Energy use

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From: joe_kerr@cheerful.com (Joe Kerr)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 00:18:33 +0000
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 by: Joe Kerr - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 00:18 UTC

On 10/12/2023 23:30, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <APodN.450$ogWb.246@fx14.ams1> at Sun, 10 Dec 2023 20:02:39,
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>> On 10-Dec-23 18:05, Vicky wrote:
> []
>>> for a few years.  In both the hybrid and all E i love that on cold
>>> mornings I can heat the car with a phone command before I go out to
>>> it.
>
> Technically, there's no reason why a fuel-only car can't have this,
> though you'd have to be able to remotely start the engine; however, I
> think hardly any such _do_ offer it.
>>
I'm not an expert on this but I'm pretty sure that it is fairly common
across the pond in the areas that are unpleasantly cold in winter
(rather than unpleasantly hot in summer). Vehicles have a small
rectangular socket sticking put of the grill where they can be plugged
in to the mains to heat the vehicle and the engine so it can actually be
started.

--
Ric

aus+uk / uk.media.radio.archers / Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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