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aus+uk / uk.media.radio.archers / Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

SubjectAuthor
* OT: Energy useBrritSki
+* OT: Energy useJohn Ashby
|`* OT: Energy useBrritSki
| `- OT: Energy usekrw
+* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
|+* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||+- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||+* OT: Energy use!)!)Clive Arthur
|||`- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||`* OT: Energy use!)!)BrritSki
|| +- OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
|| `* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||  `* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||   +* OT: Energy use!)!)John Ashby
||   |`* OT: Energy use!)!)Joe Kerr
||   | `* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||   |  +- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||   |  +* OT: Energy use!)!)Vicky
||   |  |`* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||   |  | `- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||   |  `* OT: Energy use!)!)krw
||   |   `* OT: Energy use!)!)Rosie Mitchell
||   |    `- OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
||   `* OT: Energy use!)!)Vicky
||    +* OT: Energy use!)!)Kate B
||    |`- OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
||    `* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris
||     +* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||     |`- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||     `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||      +* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||      |`- OT: Energy use!)!)Clive Arthur
||      `* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||       `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||        `* OT: Energy use!)!)Clive Arthur
||         `* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||          `* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||           `* OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
||            +* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris
||            |`* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            | `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |  `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   +* OT: Energy use!)!)Jenny M Benson
||            |   |+* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   ||`- OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   |+* OT: Energy use!)!)Serena Blanchflower
||            |   ||`- OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   |`* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris
||            |   | `- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   +* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||            |   |+* OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   ||`* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   || `* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||            |   ||  `* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||            |   ||   +- OT: Energy use!)!)John Ashby
||            |   ||   +* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   ||   |`* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||            |   ||   | `* OT: Energy use!)!)Jenny M Benson
||            |   ||   |  +* OT: Energy use!)!)Vicky
||            |   ||   |  |`* OT: ad.sJ. P. Gilliver
||            |   ||   |  | `* OT: ad.sJenny M Benson
||            |   ||   |  |  `- OT: ad.sJ. P. Gilliver
||            |   ||   |  `- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   ||   +* OT: Energy use!)!)Jim Easterbrook
||            |   ||   |+- OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   ||   |+* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||            |   ||   ||`* OT: Energy use!)!)Jim Easterbrook
||            |   ||   || +- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   ||   || +* OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
||            |   ||   || |`- OT: Energy use!)!)krw
||            |   ||   || `* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||            |   ||   ||  `* OT: Energy use!)!)Jim Easterbrook
||            |   ||   ||   +* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   ||   ||   |+* OT: Energy use!)!)Chris J Dixon
||            |   ||   ||   ||`- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   ||   ||   |`- OT: Energy use!)!)Joe Kerr
||            |   ||   ||   `* OT: Energy use!)!)BrritSki
||            |   ||   ||    `- OT: Energy use!)!)Jim Easterbrook
||            |   ||   |`* OT: Energy use!)!)krw
||            |   ||   | `- OT: Energy use!)!)Joe Kerr
||            |   ||   `- OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||            |   |`* OT: Energy use!)!)John Ashby
||            |   | `- OT: Energy use!)!)Mike McMillan
||            |   +* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||            |   |`- OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   +* OT: Energy use!)!)Joe Kerr
||            |   |`* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   | `* OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
||            |   |  `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   |   `* OT: Energy use!)!)Iain Archer
||            |   |    +- OT: Energy use!)!) - now video downloadersJ. P. Gilliver
||            |   |    `* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
||            |   |     `- OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |   `* OT: Energy use!)!)Nick Odell
||            |    `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |     `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            |      `* OT: Energy use!)!)Iain Archer
||            |       `- OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||            `* OT: Energy use!)!)krw
||             `* OT: Energy use!)!)J. P. Gilliver
||              `* OT: Energy use!)!)Sam Plusnet
|`- OT: Energy use!)!)BrritSki
+* OT: Energy useChris J Dixon
`* OT: Energy useSally Thompson

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Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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Message-ID: <FXqNk61xAnelFwuL@255soft.uk>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 03:02:09 +0000
From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: J. P. Gilliver - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 03:02 UTC

In message <uld4rc$3ndo$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 13 Dec 2023 20:40:12,
Serena Blanchflower <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> writes
[]
>>now if they were actually categorised as BS but I am sure they
>>weren't SB.
>>
>
>My memory (never too reliable) is that they were reckoned to be pretty
>effective (as opposed to efficient) but only under very limited
>circumstances. There were also significant safety concerns about them.
>So not total BS but a very long way from being SB.
>
>I've managed to find it on Sounds, if anyone is sufficiently interested
>to want to listen:
><https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001dxtx>
>
Thanks; he did his usual _fair_ job of explaining within the constraints
of the prog.; he didn't challenge any reference to "(in)efficiency",
which as I said are always spurious (_all_ electric heaters, of whatever
sort, are 100% efficient, by definition!), and he didn't really
challenge enough the claims that these tiny plug-in ones "can heat a
_room_ [my emphasis] in seconds", which I think is the aspect of these
ad.s (along with the claim that they're some sort of new invention:
they're definitely not) that irritates most.

He confirmed that: (a) if you want to heat _yourself_ rather than the
room, then some sort of fanned heater will give you more of an instant
hit (though it can get addictive), and (b) these little plug-in heaters
are basically just small fan heaters (400-500 watt, whereas the normal
fan heater is 1900-2000). Oh, and the fronts of them get very hot.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Her [Valerie Singleton's] main job on /Blue Peter/ was to stop unpredictable
creatres running amok. And that was just John Noakes.
- Alison Pearson, RT 2014/9/6-12

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 03:04:43 +0000
From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: J. P. Gilliver - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 03:04 UTC

In message <ktunnqFgi51U1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 13 Dec 2023
21:58:18, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
>On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:33:43 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>
>> I also watch quite a lot of material using my smart TV, and there is no
>> easy way round the ads. I can accept a few seconds every so often, but
>> over a minute at less than 5 minute intervals is getting really
>> annoying.
>
>I still don't regret my decision to stick with a dumb TV. My PVR's jump
>buttons are very effective at dealing with ads.
>
I too have dumb TVs, and no intention to change. (They're also small
ones.) But that doesn't really address YouTube ad.s, unless you pipe all
your YouTube viewing via your PVR, which limits the spontaneity that is
(for me anyway) one of its attractions.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Her [Valerie Singleton's] main job on /Blue Peter/ was to stop unpredictable
creatres running amok. And that was just John Noakes.
- Alison Pearson, RT 2014/9/6-12

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 03:08:12 +0000
From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: J. P. Gilliver - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 03:08 UTC

In message <uldd8s$11qjb$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 13 Dec 2023 23:03:55,
Joe Kerr <joe_kerr@cheerful.com> writes
>On 13/12/2023 13:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> Anyone know how to get a link to one of the intrusive ad.s on
>>YouTube? I accept ad.s on YouTube as a way of paying for getting the
[]
>I do use ad-blockers and rarely use You Tube, but I do still see the
>occasional add on 'Tube. The link to the add is probably "hidden" the
>same as the videos are.

(I use yt-dlp a lot, so am not bothered about that for the videos; it
works very well - haven't had a YT video not work with it for months.
Despite its name, it works on many other sites too - such as the BBC.)

> Could you do screen prints of any offending on-screen text
>(subtitles?) and the company name and let ASA work it out. The
>advertiser probably has a website somewhere making the same claims.
>
Good thinking: I hadn't thought of capturing with subtitles. But I
really want the ASA to get the full impact of the offending ad.s, so
ideally I'd like to send them a link that plays them.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Her [Valerie Singleton's] main job on /Blue Peter/ was to stop unpredictable
creatres running amok. And that was just John Noakes.
- Alison Pearson, RT 2014/9/6-12

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: chris@cdixon.me.uk (Chris J Dixon)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:42:07 +0000
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 by: Chris J Dixon - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:42 UTC

Jim Easterbrook wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:33:43 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>
>> I also watch quite a lot of material using my smart TV, and there is no
>> easy way round the ads. I can accept a few seconds every so often, but
>> over a minute at less than 5 minute intervals is getting really
>> annoying.
>
>I still don't regret my decision to stick with a dumb TV. My PVR's jump
>buttons are very effective at dealing with ads.

You have snipped the context of my remark, which was specifically
watching YouTube, which I can't put on my PVR.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

Re: TB 115.5.1

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 by: Kate B - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:24 UTC

On 13/12/2023 22:09, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
> On 13/12/2023 17:56, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 08/12/2023 17:27, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>
>> I am posting here because this thread is just the latest manifestation
>> of a problem I am having. I attach the query sent to Mozilla.
>>
>> Anyone else seeing the same problem ?
>>
>> I have been using TB for many years and use TB to read usenet posts only.
>> Since the update, everything works well except one occasional problem.
>> Sometimes a new post in a thread will result in the whole thread being
>> shown with each post summarised in 2 or 3 lines. It is impossible to
>> expaqnd the thread afaics or to read the full text of the new post.
>> Even after clicking the thread shows as having unread messages. It is
>> not possible to reply to any posts.
>> I attach screenshots of 1 thread this afternoon both at the top and at
>> the end (with lots of posts I scrolled past not shown) and another
>> screenshot of what a new post normally looks like.
>> THis seems entirely random. There is no pattern that I can dsiscern,
>> it's not always the same user or a reply to the same user or always
>> the same threads.
>>
> <snip the not-a-screenshot>
>
> I've had this problem, or something similar occasionally.  More often
> than not, I can expand the thread from the > in the message list against
> the thread.  Occasionally, it hasn't been keen to do this but I've been
> able to navigate to the first unread message by clicking on "next
> message" and, after that, it's fine again.
>
>
This is very odd. I am not having any problems at all with TB 115.1.1
(32-bit) except for the annoying habit of not remembering I only want to
see unread posts.

--
Kate B

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk (Jenny M Benson)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:54:57 +0000
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 by: Jenny M Benson - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:54 UTC

On 13/12/2023 21:00, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> That had been my experience until recently, but some stuff I
> watched yesterday seemed to be unusually loaded with lengthy ads
> with no skip. I have no means of knowing if this was some sort of
> glitch, was particular to the unexceptional site I was viewing,
> or the way of future things.

I was watching some tv prog via the Amazon Fire Stick the other day and
was horrified to see (more than once) a little caption at the foot of
the screen informing me that "this" was Ad no. n of 10. TEN adverts at
every break?!

I may have enquired here before - how do "they" know to show adverts
every time I turn on or switch channels? And I don't mean that I switch
on because a prog is about to start and therefore I might expect
adverts. It's at any random time when I suddenly think "Oh, I'll watch
a big of telly" or "oh, this is boring, I'll try another channel." But
99 times out of a hundred (it seems) if there isn't an advert playing at
that moment, there will be one within 30 seconds.

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: Vicky - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 11:25 UTC

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:54:57 +0000, Jenny M Benson
<NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>On 13/12/2023 21:00, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>> That had been my experience until recently, but some stuff I
>> watched yesterday seemed to be unusually loaded with lengthy ads
>> with no skip. I have no means of knowing if this was some sort of
>> glitch, was particular to the unexceptional site I was viewing,
>> or the way of future things.
>
>I was watching some tv prog via the Amazon Fire Stick the other day and
>was horrified to see (more than once) a little caption at the foot of
>the screen informing me that "this" was Ad no. n of 10. TEN adverts at
>every break?!
>
>I may have enquired here before - how do "they" know to show adverts
>every time I turn on or switch channels? And I don't mean that I switch
>on because a prog is about to start and therefore I might expect
>adverts. It's at any random time when I suddenly think "Oh, I'll watch
>a big of telly" or "oh, this is boring, I'll try another channel." But
>99 times out of a hundred (it seems) if there isn't an advert playing at
>that moment, there will be one within 30 seconds.

I get that with commercial radio too.There is an ad when I switch to
it. And when I go to a BBC podcast I quite often get a long advert for
another programme first.

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:14:52 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:14 UTC

Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 13/12/2023 21:00, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>> That had been my experience until recently, but some stuff I
>> watched yesterday seemed to be unusually loaded with lengthy ads
>> with no skip. I have no means of knowing if this was some sort of
>> glitch, was particular to the unexceptional site I was viewing,
>> or the way of future things.
>
> I was watching some tv prog via the Amazon Fire Stick the other day and
> was horrified to see (more than once) a little caption at the foot of
> the screen informing me that "this" was Ad no. n of 10. TEN adverts at
> every break?!
>
> I may have enquired here before - how do "they" know to show adverts
> every time I turn on or switch channels? And I don't mean that I switch
> on because a prog is about to start and therefore I might expect
> adverts. It's at any random time when I suddenly think "Oh, I'll watch
> a big of telly" or "oh, this is boring, I'll try another channel." But
> 99 times out of a hundred (it seems) if there isn't an advert playing at
> that moment, there will be one within 30 seconds.
>

Jenny, it’s that little camera and microphone they have sneaked into your
system …

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

OT: ad.s

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From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: OT: ad.s
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 by: J. P. Gilliver - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:17 UTC

In message <edplnipjo53o0slqrnts8vitrtg8s6fvtl@4ax.com> at Thu, 14 Dec
2023 11:25:52, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> writes
>On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:54:57 +0000, Jenny M Benson
><NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
[]
>>I was watching some tv prog via the Amazon Fire Stick the other day and
>>was horrified to see (more than once) a little caption at the foot of
>>the screen informing me that "this" was Ad no. n of 10. TEN adverts at
>>every break?!

Depends how long they are: if 20 seconds, ten is 3'20".

I'd _like_ to have such a counter: at least you then would know where
you are, at least more than you do now (on a dumb telly).
>>
>>I may have enquired here before - how do "they" know to show adverts
>>every time I turn on or switch channels? And I don't mean that I switch
>>on because a prog is about to start and therefore I might expect
>>adverts. It's at any random time when I suddenly think "Oh, I'll watch
>>a big of telly" or "oh, this is boring, I'll try another channel." But
>>99 times out of a hundred (it seems) if there isn't an advert playing at
>>that moment, there will be one within 30 seconds.

At first, I was going to say it sends something whenever you interact,
but then I wasn't sure if you're talking about a "smart" TV or a dumb
one. If the latter, it just seems that way - combined by, I'm pretty
sure, a lot of the channels sync. their ad.s, so if you turn over* when
the ad.s come on, you're likely to hit ad.s on the other channel too.

* lovely old expression - I think comes from the turret tuners on VHF
tellies!
>
>I get that with commercial radio too.There is an ad when I switch to
>it. And when I go to a BBC podcast I quite often get a long advert for
>another programme first.

At least the BBC one usually has a "skip trail" or similar button.
Often, anyway.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never raise your hand to your children. It leaves your mid-section unprotected

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: Chris - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:58 UTC

Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 13/12/2023 13:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> Anyone know how to get a link to one of the intrusive ad.s on YouTube? I
>> accept ad.s on YouTube as a way of paying for getting the service free -
>> I _don't_ run any ad-blockers, for that reason. But there's one that's
>> really bugging me at the moment - it's for electric heaters, which "will
>> warm a room in seconds, for a fraction of the electricity cost" - and I
>> _really_ want to report them to the ASA (and anything else I can think
>> of). Of course, no electric heater can warm even a small _room_ in
>> seconds (it can warm a _person_, if they're standing right in front of
>> it), and if it's going to have a perceptible effect even on a person,
>> it's going to need to be of a fair power. They also use the word
>> efficient (and/or inefficient, for competing products); for an electric
>> heater, there is no such thing as inefficiency (unless they put out a
>> lot of _light_ and are right by a window).
>
> Can't answer your question, but I did listen to an episode of Sliced
> Bread a while ago which talked about these heaters. Can't remember now
> if they were actually categorised as BS but I am sure they weren't SB.
>

We neither Jenny. Jpeg, it’s easy to scroll back on the SB site and find
the epi

Mrs McT

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:14:34 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:14 UTC

Chris <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 13/12/2023 13:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>> Anyone know how to get a link to one of the intrusive ad.s on YouTube? I
>>> accept ad.s on YouTube as a way of paying for getting the service free -
>>> I _don't_ run any ad-blockers, for that reason. But there's one that's
>>> really bugging me at the moment - it's for electric heaters, which "will
>>> warm a room in seconds, for a fraction of the electricity cost" - and I
>>> _really_ want to report them to the ASA (and anything else I can think
>>> of). Of course, no electric heater can warm even a small _room_ in
>>> seconds (it can warm a _person_, if they're standing right in front of
>>> it), and if it's going to have a perceptible effect even on a person,
>>> it's going to need to be of a fair power. They also use the word
>>> efficient (and/or inefficient, for competing products); for an electric
>>> heater, there is no such thing as inefficiency (unless they put out a
>>> lot of _light_ and are right by a window).
>>
>> Can't answer your question, but I did listen to an episode of Sliced
>> Bread a while ago which talked about these heaters. Can't remember now
>> if they were actually categorised as BS but I am sure they weren't SB.
>>
>
> We neither Jenny. Jpeg, it’s easy to scroll back on the SB site and find
> the epi
>
> Mrs McT
>
>

ISTR it was a source of Heated Discussions for such an elementary device.
(Sorry!)

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk (Jim Easterbrook)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
Date: 14 Dec 2023 17:20:25 GMT
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 by: Jim Easterbrook - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:20 UTC

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:42:07 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:

> Jim Easterbrook wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:33:43 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>
>>> I also watch quite a lot of material using my smart TV, and there is
>>> no easy way round the ads. I can accept a few seconds every so often,
>>> but over a minute at less than 5 minute intervals is getting really
>>> annoying.
>>
>>I still don't regret my decision to stick with a dumb TV. My PVR's jump
>>buttons are very effective at dealing with ads.
>
> You have snipped the context of my remark, which was specifically
> watching YouTube, which I can't put on my PVR.

Sorry about that, I was thinking about more general online stuff. I watch
very little YouTube (a few minutes a week at most) and only ever on the
computer. I get all the TV programmes I need over the air.

I read something recently about smart TVs doing video fingerprinting of
everything you watch and sending it back to their maker. Many companies
seem determined to gather all the information they can about their
customers, even if they have no idea what to do with it.

--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

Re: OT: ad.s

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From: NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk (Jenny M Benson)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: ad.s
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:46:28 +0000
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 by: Jenny M Benson - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:46 UTC

On 14/12/2023 12:17, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>> I was watching some tv prog via the Amazon Fire Stick the other day and
>>> was horrified to see (more than once) a little caption at the foot of
>>> the screen informing me that "this" was Ad no. n of 10.  TEN adverts at
>>> every break?!
>
> Depends how long they are: if 20 seconds, ten is 3'20".
>
> I'd _like_ to have such a counter: at least you then would know where
> you are, at least more than you do now (on a dumb telly).

It's not the counter, I object to, it's the number of adverts.
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
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Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:52 UTC

Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:42:07 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>
>> Jim Easterbrook wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:33:43 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>
>>>> I also watch quite a lot of material using my smart TV, and there is
>>>> no easy way round the ads. I can accept a few seconds every so often,
>>>> but over a minute at less than 5 minute intervals is getting really
>>>> annoying.
>>>
>>> I still don't regret my decision to stick with a dumb TV. My PVR's jump
>>> buttons are very effective at dealing with ads.
>>
>> You have snipped the context of my remark, which was specifically
>> watching YouTube, which I can't put on my PVR.
>
> Sorry about that, I was thinking about more general online stuff. I watch
> very little YouTube (a few minutes a week at most) and only ever on the
> computer. I get all the TV programmes I need over the air.
>
> I read something recently about smart TVs doing video fingerprinting of
> everything you watch and sending it back to their maker. Many companies
> seem determined to gather all the information they can about their
> customers, even if they have no idea what to do with it.
>

‘Information is Power’ even if they don’t know what to do with that power.
Gooooogle could advise of course!

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: Nick Odell - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 18:14 UTC

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:41:28 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>Anyone know how to get a link to one of the intrusive ad.s on YouTube? I
>accept ad.s on YouTube as a way of paying for getting the service free -
>I _don't_ run any ad-blockers, for that reason. But there's one that's
>really bugging me at the moment - it's for electric heaters, which "will
>warm a room in seconds, for a fraction of the electricity cost" - and I
>_really_ want to report them to the ASA (and anything else I can think
>of). Of course, no electric heater can warm even a small _room_ in
>seconds (it can warm a _person_, if they're standing right in front of
>it), and if it's going to have a perceptible effect even on a person,
>it's going to need to be of a fair power. They also use the word
>efficient (and/or inefficient, for competing products); for an electric
>heater, there is no such thing as inefficiency (unless they put out a
>lot of _light_ and are right by a window).
>
>Sorry, rant over - I just get cross when adverts mislead as blatantly as
>these do. As I said, I don't mind ad.s when just pushing one product
>over another (as long as they do so reasonably honestly), or are
>genuinely informative.
>
>[I'd hoped _gambling_ ones would by now have gone the way of tobacco,
>and some alcohol, ones, but obviously society has changed for the worse,
>and they're not ever going to. )-:]

I don't know about an actual link, but isn't there a chance that a
stand-alone ad, used in YouTube will be available as a YouTube video?

I just tried looking for one ad that pops up regularly when I use
Youtube. I searched on the two words, bears and Twix and YouTube found
the ad from the ad agency's channel.

Nick

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: Nick Odell - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 18:20 UTC

On 14 Dec 2023 17:20:25 GMT, Jim Easterbrook
<news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:42:07 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>
>> Jim Easterbrook wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:33:43 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>
>>>> I also watch quite a lot of material using my smart TV, and there is
>>>> no easy way round the ads. I can accept a few seconds every so often,
>>>> but over a minute at less than 5 minute intervals is getting really
>>>> annoying.
>>>
>>>I still don't regret my decision to stick with a dumb TV. My PVR's jump
>>>buttons are very effective at dealing with ads.
>>
>> You have snipped the context of my remark, which was specifically
>> watching YouTube, which I can't put on my PVR.
>
>Sorry about that, I was thinking about more general online stuff. I watch
>very little YouTube (a few minutes a week at most) and only ever on the
>computer. I get all the TV programmes I need over the air.
>
>I read something recently about smart TVs doing video fingerprinting of
>everything you watch and sending it back to their maker. Many companies
>seem determined to gather all the information they can about their
>customers, even if they have no idea what to do with it.

I don't own a TV of any type but if I did I really wouldn't want a
smart one. As you say, the companies seem to use them to profile their
customers but in particular I don't like the idea of my channel
changing commands etc being routed through the company servers. Not
quite the same but, do you remember when Tesla owners got locked out
of their cars because the server at the factory went off line?

I also wonder if your ability to watch your LG or Sony TV might be
compromised by a change of company ownership and if so, what any
consumers could do about it?

Nick

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: Nick Odell - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 18:29 UTC

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 03:08:12 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>(I use yt-dlp a lot, so am not bothered about that for the videos; it
>works very well - haven't had a YT video not work with it for months.
>Despite its name, it works on many other sites too - such as the BBC.)
<snip>

Thanks for that yt-dlp tip - I've added it to my youtubelinks.txt file
to investigate further when I get home.

I use a stand-alone program (or should I call it an app these days?)
called FreeTube. Available from the GitHub site, it works in exactly
the same way as YouTube but without being YouTube and without any ads.
It also plays any Youtube videos without the need for being signed in
to anything.

The only disadvantage is that its downloading features are hobbled -
presumably to avoid conflict with the original. You can download audio
only (great for audio books on YouTube) or video only (not great for
anything I can think of right now) but not both together. But as a
viewer it's fine.

Nick

Re: OT: ad.s

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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 19:22:11 +0000
From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: ad.s
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 by: J. P. Gilliver - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 19:22 UTC

In message <ku0tbkF80r0U2@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 14 Dec 2023
17:46:28, Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> writes
>On 14/12/2023 12:17, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>>> I was watching some tv prog via the Amazon Fire Stick the other day and
>>>> was horrified to see (more than once) a little caption at the foot of
>>>> the screen informing me that "this" was Ad no. n of 10.  TEN adverts at
>>>> every break?!
>> Depends how long they are: if 20 seconds, ten is 3'20".
>> I'd _like_ to have such a counter: at least you then would know
>>where you are, at least more than you do now (on a dumb telly).
>
>It's not the counter, I object to, it's the number of adverts.

I've just timed and counted a break on a conventional channel - 19:12 or
so, on channel 20 (Star Trek Voyager) - muted of course, as I was
listening to TA. About a 3 minute break, plus a 35 second trailer (for
something on the same channel sometime tonight). I think there were
about 10 adverts; of very varying lengths, but obviously that's an
_average_ of about 36 seconds each.

So 10 ad.s, plus a trailer, is about normal for a typical break on that
sort of channel at that sort of time. (I'm not sure it was exactly 10,
as when muted, I may have missed a transition between similar ones.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Well I wish you'd just tell me, rather than trying to engage my enthusiasm,
because I haven't got one. (Marvin; first series, fit the fifth.)

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 19:42:48 +0000
From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: J. P. Gilliver - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 19:42 UTC

In message <s8hmnidtgcd79u2k0j8mr38kigp3lkrg2o@4ax.com> at Thu, 14 Dec
2023 18:14:44, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> writes
>On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:41:28 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"
><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>>Anyone know how to get a link to one of the intrusive ad.s on YouTube? I
[]
>I don't know about an actual link, but isn't there a chance that a
>stand-alone ad, used in YouTube will be available as a YouTube video?
>
>I just tried looking for one ad that pops up regularly when I use
>Youtube. I searched on the two words, bears and Twix and YouTube found
>the ad from the ad agency's channel.
>
>Nick

I know the one you mean - that's a cute advert, though; I don't think it
would infuriate many people: at worst, it might irritate by being shown
too often, or just possibly some might find it too cute/twee if they're
particularly sad. On the whole, I can see the ad agency being quite
pleased to admit having made that one.

But I tried - took several goes; I mainly found links to videos looking
into these heaters, and debunking the claims - and eventually did find
one: not for the tiny plug-in ones, but certainly has all the totally
invalid claims: heat any room in seconds for less energy, innovative new
technology, "invented" by disgruntled employees, and many others:
there's almost a blueprint! (Oh, and for some reason, these sort of ad.s
seem to use a synthesized voice to read the script. Maybe nobody would
stoop so low as to do it.) Anyway, here it is - don't watch if you are
at all technical, if you're susceptible to high blood pressure:
youtube.com/watch?v=3tZgiwc_SSc
Now to do battle with the ASA's website.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Well I wish you'd just tell me, rather than trying to engage my enthusiasm,
because I haven't got one. (Marvin; first series, fit the fifth.)

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: chris@cdixon.me.uk (Chris J Dixon)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: Chris J Dixon - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 19:54 UTC

Jim Easterbrook wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:42:07 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:

>Sorry about that, I was thinking about more general online stuff. I watch
>very little YouTube (a few minutes a week at most) and only ever on the
>computer. I get all the TV programmes I need over the air.

The stuff I watch on YouTube is not broadcast material, but their
algorithm seems good at finding things I might like, based on
what I have watched.

There is a plethora of, to me, interesting stuff out there -
technical, engineering, construction, machinery, off-grid... much
of it with high production values. It is amazing what some people
can achieve with their own hands, even if one worries about their
safety from time to time.

There is also lots to catch up on the PVR, but the problem is
that I can't really watch stuff we both want to see, if I am the
only one with the free time. BOFE works in Adult Education, and
has some evening classes, and never-ending prep. work.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 20:17 UTC

On 13-Dec-23 19:33, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>> I use a mix of browsers.
>> On one, Youtube has given up showing me any video - I just get the audio
>> (no idea how I managed that).
>> On another I don't see any adverts at all.
>> I happened to fire up a third, and whas shocked & unhappy to find all
>> these adverts being shoved at me.
>>
>> I'll stick to Brave (a browser M'Lud) for Youtube.
>
> I mainly use Firefox with AdblockPlus. Until recently this worked
> well, but now YouTube detects the blocking and will not play (or
> will allow you one or two, and then blocks)

That happened to me on (I think) firefox.
For no particular reason I just refreshed/reloaded the page, and the
problem just went away.
No adverts, no warning messages, no blocking.
Please don't ask me how or why.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: TB 115.5.1

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 20:35 UTC

On 13-Dec-23 20:04, BrritSki wrote:
> On 13/12/2023 20:00, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 13/12/2023 19:51, BrritSki wrote:
>>> On 13/12/2023 19:07, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>> On 13-Dec-23 17:56, BrritSki wrote:
>>>>
>>> Thanks for the suggestion. I'll take a look for that when I next see
>>> the problem, but as with the sentient hardware, the sentient software
>>> has detected that I now know what it is up to to and is presenting
>>> threads properly now :/
>>
>>
>> And having forced TB to repeat the problem, that is indeed the solution.
>
> And now it  isn't, unless I mark the thread as read and then mark it as
> unread, go out of umra and come back in.
>
> Then I can click the carat but all the posts are now showing as unread
> in the group. Weird....

If you can offer a reason for my (un)favourite Thunderbird glitch,
please let me know.

The Usenet group's name in the left-hand pane has a counter showing the
number of unread posts, and the list of posts in the top pane has those
unread posts in bold whilst those which have been read are in fainter text.

In some groups, sometimes, the counter decrements, and the text goes
from bold to un-bold as you access each 'new' post. As it should.

In other groups (and this is most of the ones I read) the counter
doesn't decrement, and the text goes from bold to un-bold - but reverts
back to bold as you move on to the next post.

This isn't a specifically 115.5.1 problem since I've been wrestling with
it for around a year now.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver)
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Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
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 by: J. P. Gilliver - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:32 UTC

In message <mthmnilfn7gokd4hse19mmio4n5a2r17d2@4ax.com> at Thu, 14 Dec
2023 18:29:36, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> writes
>On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 03:08:12 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"
><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
><snip>
>>(I use yt-dlp a lot, so am not bothered about that for the videos; it
>>works very well - haven't had a YT video not work with it for months.
>>Despite its name, it works on many other sites too - such as the BBC.)
><snip>
>
>Thanks for that yt-dlp tip - I've added it to my youtubelinks.txt file
>to investigate further when I get home.

I use it when I want to keep something. It's a command-line thing - I
know that sends some people into a spin, but it's dead simple - you just
type
yt-dlp URL

, and you can copy-and-paste the URL. Even less typing if - as I have
done - you rename "yt-dlp.exe" to "y.exe".
>
>I use a stand-alone program (or should I call it an app these days?)

Please don't (-:

>called FreeTube. Available from the GitHub site, it works in exactly
>the same way as YouTube but without being YouTube and without any ads.
>It also plays any Youtube videos without the need for being signed in
>to anything.

I mostly don't mind YT ad.s - OK, they do _sometimes_ get a bit
intrusive, but I don't _really_ mind that, if it means I can continue to
get YouTube for free. Some of the actual ad.s themselves irritate me no
end, mind: I don't mind the bears and Twix one, but that heater one ...

(yt-dlp downloads adless files.)
>
>The only disadvantage is that its downloading features are hobbled -

yt-dlp (and its predecessor yt-dl) are hobbled from time to time -
usually download speed. So you get the latest version - you just type

yt-dlp -U

(capital U!) and it updates itself. (Including if you've renamed it, so
in my case I just type "y -U".) If you want to see what version you
have, just "y --version" (note double "-") will tell you: the version
numbers are of the form (checks) 2023.11.16. You can use -U instead - if
there's no new version, it'll just tell you it is up to date anyway (and
what the version is) - it just takes a few seconds longer, as obviously
it has to go see if there _is_ a new version, whereas just checking
doesn't.

>presumably to avoid conflict with the original. You can download audio
>only (great for audio books on YouTube) or video only (not great for
>anything I can think of right now) but not both together. But as a
>viewer it's fine.

Video only would be fine for things that have no audio - there are a
few. News footage of some events comes to mind. (There are also some
cases where there is no audio but the uploader has added inappropriate
music, where not fetching that could be quite a relief!) yt-dlp has lots
of options, including audio or video only; I usually just get the whole,
and if I only want the audio use an extractor afterwards (I use Pazera,
but there are many such: I like that one as it's easy to be _sure_ it's
just extracting not recoding).
>
>Nick
John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The trouble with the death penalty has always been that nobody wanted it for
everybody, but everybody differed about who should get off. - Albert
Pierrepoint, in his 1974 autobiography.

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

<OaTf3YAUT3elFwOZ@255soft.uk>

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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:34:12 +0000
From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
References: <ul28lh$29n51$1@dont-email.me> <0va9nidogjlu5e314bl3ks6sdc78v0vup2@4ax.com> <ul4ice$2n4qo$1@dont-email.me> <vUTsChREakdlFwCX@255soft.uk> <ul6kmd$33vui$1@dont-email.me> <PvQU8JYLgtdlFwVl@255soft.uk> <ul6oe8$34g9b$2@dont-email.me> <qgJdN.8181$Sl64.3261@fx09.ams1> <ul987q$3jpsp$1@dont-email.me> <j22hnipjvfpf5km570vei6o4r257h4k0nu@4ax.com> <ula4d7$3o1t3$1@dont-email.me> <ulbqbn$37jo$1@dont-email.me> <PwI$N+o4bXelFwMB@255soft.uk> <p8k2OBqISbelFwpG@255soft.uk> <s8hmnidtgcd79u2k0j8mr38kigp3lkrg2o@4ax.com> <pXoGEi94q1elFwLT@255soft.uk>
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 by: J. P. Gilliver - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:34 UTC

In message <pXoGEi94q1elFwLT@255soft.uk> at Thu, 14 Dec 2023 19:42:48,
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> writes
[]
>would stoop so low as to do it.) Anyway, here it is - don't watch if
>you are at all technical, if you're susceptible to high blood pressure:
>youtube.com/watch?v=3tZgiwc_SSc
>Now to do battle with the ASA's website.

Have now done so. I've had the auto-ack; I will (if I remember) report
on how it goes.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The trouble with the death penalty has always been that nobody wanted it for
everybody, but everybody differed about who should get off. - Albert
Pierrepoint, in his 1974 autobiography.

Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

<ku1cp0F4t8uU2@mid.individual.net>

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From: news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk (Jim Easterbrook)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: OT: Energy use!)!)
Date: 14 Dec 2023 22:09:36 GMT
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 by: Jim Easterbrook - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 22:09 UTC

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 19:54:40 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:

> There is a plethora of, to me, interesting stuff out there - technical,
> engineering, construction, machinery, off-grid... much of it with high
> production values. It is amazing what some people can achieve with their
> own hands, even if one worries about their safety from time to time.

All I ever seem to see is people taking quarter of an hour to tell me
something that I could have read in a minute or less. Luckily it's usually
easy to jump to the bit where they actually show how to remove the cover
of the thing I can't get apart.

--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

aus+uk / uk.media.radio.archers / Re: OT: Energy use!)!)

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