On 2024-03-05, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> On 2024-03-05 14:16:43 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>
>> On 2024-03-05, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-05 10:16:19 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-03-02, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-02-26 19:45:29 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-02-26, occam wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 26/02/2024 12:29, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 26/02/24 19:09, occam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 26/02/2024 00:18, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think I had something like 20 automata in my machine, or possibly
>>>>>>>>>> as many as 50. The number was limited by the size of available
>>>>>>>>>> memory.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As I recall it, I improved the success rate by dividing the
>>>>>>>>>> automata into male and female, and using sexual reproduction. But
>>>>>>>>>> this was just for my amusement, not a serious research project, so
>>>>>>>>>> I didn't carry it any further.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oooh, that sounds like the first case of built-in gender-bias into an
>>>>>>>>> AI algorithm!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Had you pursued that approach, you would have had to revise it later
>>>>>>>>> by creating LGBTQ+  automata also. </smile >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That possibility didn't occur to me at the time. I did, however,
>>>>>>>> experiment with varying the number of sexes. My conclusion at the time
>>>>>>>> was that the optimal number of sexes is three, but that was based on
>>>>>>>> limited evidences.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course, we have always known that if a species has more than two
>>>>>>>> sexes it becomes harder to find partners.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have? Can you point to an SF story that explores this scenario?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dunno, but there was a ST ENT episode about a species with a 3rd
>>>>>> gender who are useful for reproduction but treated as inferiors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cogenitor_(episode)>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can probably have a viable
>>>>>>>> species with three sexes, but with any more the reproduction rate is
>>>>>>>> likely to collapse.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, I'm baffled at the conclusion. What if the third sex is type 'O'
>>>>>>> (as in blood types) which is compatible with both 'M' and 'F'? Why would
>>>>>>> this reduce the reproduction rate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A "universal donor" that can produce both kinds of sex cells?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think there are some animals that switch between M & F (probably not
>>>>>> often),
>>>>>
>>>>> Certain fish do it routinely. Hyenas too (a female-dominant species), I
>>>>> think, but occasionally.
>>>>
>>>> I'd heard about various fish, but this says hyendas don't change.
>>>>
>>>> Myth: They’re hermaphrodites.
>>>>
>>>> Truth: This myth may come from the fact that spotted hyena females
>>>> are generally bigger than males and have a pseudo-penis.
>>>>
>>>> These pseudo-penises, or pseudophalluses, are paired with
>>>> "testicles"—actually fused labia filled with fatty tissue. Both
>>>> sexes get erections when they're excitedly greeting each other,
>>>> Benson-Amram says.
>>>>
>>>> These pseudo-penises aren't just for show: Females give birth
>>>> through their “penis,” which “has to tear when the first cub passes
>>>> through,” she says. (Read more about hyena sexual quirks in How Can
>>>> You Tell a Female Animal from a Male?)
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/animals-myths-hyenas-lions-science>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Fun fact (true this time): hyenas are much closer to cats than to dogs.
>>
>> And bears are closer to dogs than to cats!
>
> No surprise there: it's something I've known since about 1968. Does
> anyone think they're similar to cats?

I doubt it, but they don't look much like dogs either.

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