Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 06:59:42 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <uld74r$10os1$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:19:23 on Wed, 13 Dec
>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:42:59 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <ulcrev$un92$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:59:59 on Wed, 13 Dec
>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Railway Tavern in Darlington, built by the Stockton & Darlington
>>>>>> Railway, has been Grade II listed.
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-67691236>
>>>>>
>>>>> Better news would be if Scotrail relented on their "no alcohol anywhere
>>>>> on our system" policy.
>>>>
>>>> They're consulting on changing it:
>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67648715
>>>
>>> Besides, in my recent experience the ban is not enforced. Gripper ignored
>>> the can on the table of the drunk whilst checking his ticket.
>>
>> My experience having done Inverness-Kyle, Mallaig-Fort_William-Glasgow
>> in the daytime a couple of months ago, is that it was enforced.
>>
>> I had a long discussion with one of the grippers, and they said it was
>> brought in "because of Covid", and people needing to take their masks
>> off to drink. Which of course would also apply to non-alcoholic
>> beverages <sigh>.
>>
>> And that they'd since decided that the subsequent reduction in drunken
>> behaviour (presumably mainly on Glasgow suburban services late at night)
>> meant is was very likely to become permanent.
>>
>> Although the BBC story says it was already banned after 9pm.
>
> Yes.
>
> I've never bought the argument that banning drinks on trains make much
> difference. It's not a case of people getting on sober then becoming
> steaming drunk.

You should have seen the ratings travelling back to Rosyth from England on
a Sunday night with a 12-pack in front of them.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <ulf6vo$1edgh$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:56 on Thu, 14 Dec
2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <ulete0$1cpis$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:45:51 on Thu, 14 Dec
>> 2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>> On 14/12/2023 12:37, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:34:02 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:17:47 +0000, Alan Lee
>>>>> <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 13/12/2023 18:42, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <ulcrev$un92$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:59:59 on Wed, 13 Dec
>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Railway Tavern in Darlington, built by the Stockton & Darlington
>>>>>>>> Railway, has been Grade II listed.
>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-67691236>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Better news would be if Scotrail relented on their "no alcohol anywhere
>>>>>>> on our system" policy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or, even better, NR ban alcohol on all service trains.
>>>>>> It doesnt seem to have hit ridership on TfL.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you think it should be a commercial decision: ban adults from a
>>>>> legal activity to boost ridership?
>>>>>
>>>> What law says it is legal to booze on a train?
>>>
>>> The same one that says it is legal to chat, read and do the crossword:
>>> a general principle that we can do anything that isn't prohibited.
>>
>> And of course whatever the Trades Description Act is called this week,
>> with numerous TOCs advertising trolley and buffet service, as well as
>> free drinks in First Class.
>
>There’s a history of dry trains in Scotland, so presumably this isn’t just
>done to be killjoys. IIRC some of the LNER trains from Aberdeen even in the
>morning are dry.

I'd believe they might not serve alcohol before 10am, which could be a
365-day thing in Scotland, but only Sundays in England.

I wonder if Scottish airport departure lounges have that restriction
too?
--
Roland Perry

In message <ulf776$1eeuk$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:54 on Thu, 14 Dec
2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>> I've never bought the argument that banning drinks on trains make much
>> difference. It's not a case of people getting on sober then becoming
>> steaming drunk.
>
>Friday morning LNER train from Aberdeen. Oil rig workers going home. Now a
>dry service.

All the way to London?
--
Roland Perry

In message <ulf96t$1eoki$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:06:55 on Thu, 14 Dec
2023, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:

>I'd say that banning drinks on trains going to/from soccer matches
>would make a hell of a lot of difference in Germany. I know several
>people who stay away from trains on Saturdays (or verify there's no
>home game before doing their weekend planning). Having a few hundred
>drunk away-fans in a single train can be extremely unpleasant.

It's not just trains. When I lived in Manchester back in the day one
tried to avoid going to the City Centre any Saturday there was a home
game, and the police used to patrol in threes.

More recently I've been in Sheffield on a match day (not a Wednesday -
see what I did there), and the regular bars etc restricted patrons to
"home" or "away" fans only, and the bar at the station banned anyone
wearing a football shirt.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <ulf776$1eeuk$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:54 on Thu, 14 Dec
> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> I've never bought the argument that banning drinks on trains make much
>>> difference. It's not a case of people getting on sober then becoming
>>> steaming drunk.
>>
>> Friday morning LNER train from Aberdeen. Oil rig workers going home. Now a
>> dry service.
>
> All the way to London?

Seems the ban ends at Newcastle.

https://www.lner.co.uk/support/faq/on-board/catering/which-trains-are-no-al/

Which trains can't I drink alcohol on?
The alcohol-free policy will apply every Friday, on the 09.52 Aberdeen to
London King's Cross train, between Aberdeen and Newcastle (and all calling
points in between).

We expect a number of large groups to be travelling on this train, so to
help make it a pleasant experience for everyone, we'll be operating an
alcohol-free policy for part of the journey.

This means that alcohol cannot be brought onto or purchased on board our
trains at any stop between Aberdeen and Newcastle, and customers may be
searched before boarding. Additionally, alcoholic drinks will not be served
as part of the complimentary food and drink offer in First Class until
after Newcastle.

On 15/12/2023 06:36, Roland Perry wrote:
> I wonder if Scottish airport departure lounges have that restriction too?

Also many Scottish towns have a ban on drinking alcohol in the town
centre so you might be breaking the law once you leave the station.

Though I notice the drinkers in the centre of the town just do it out of
sight of the CCTV system.

Not that I have seen it being enforced but rarely down there in the
evening when presumably most of the drunks are around.

I have long wished that drinking alcohol was only done in private and
there was an offence of 'being drunk in a public place' which was enforced.

Just treat it like any other addiction.

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:37:44 +0000, Charles Ellson
<charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:34:02 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:17:47 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 13/12/2023 18:42, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <ulcrev$un92$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:59:59 on Wed, 13 Dec
>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> The Railway Tavern in Darlington, built by the Stockton & Darlington
>>>>> Railway, has been Grade II listed.
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-67691236>
>>>>
>>>> Better news would be if Scotrail relented on their "no alcohol anywhere
>>>> on our system" policy.
>>>
>>>Or, even better, NR ban alcohol on all service trains.
>>>It doesnt seem to have hit ridership on TfL.
>>
>>So you think it should be a commercial decision: ban adults from a
>>legal activity to boost ridership?
>>
>What law says it is legal to booze on a train?

The same one that says it's legal to drink water on a train? In the UK
system everything is legal as a private citizen unless there's a law
that says otherwise. The law says that generally I may drink, alcohol
or otherwise.

Scotrail has gone down the path of telling me that I can't do
something otherwise legal in case I abuse the situation. If I abuse it
then you can throw the book at me, but I really won't.

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:39:35 +0000, Charles Ellson
<charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>>
>>I've never bought the argument that banning drinks on trains make much
>>difference. It's not a case of people getting on sober then becoming
>>steaming drunk.
>>
>You sound like you haven't used many trains beyond local services.

How odd, when I've covered just about every inch of the UK network, in
may cases multiple times.

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:37:44 +0000, Charles Ellson
> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:34:02 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:17:47 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 13/12/2023 18:42, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <ulcrev$un92$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:59:59 on Wed, 13 Dec
>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Railway Tavern in Darlington, built by the Stockton & Darlington
>>>>>> Railway, has been Grade II listed.
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-67691236>
>>>>>
>>>>> Better news would be if Scotrail relented on their "no alcohol anywhere
>>>>> on our system" policy.
>>>>
>>>> Or, even better, NR ban alcohol on all service trains.
>>>> It doesnt seem to have hit ridership on TfL.
>>>
>>> So you think it should be a commercial decision: ban adults from a
>>> legal activity to boost ridership?
>>>
>> What law says it is legal to booze on a train?
>
> The same one that says it's legal to drink water on a train? In the UK
> system everything is legal as a private citizen unless there's a law
> that says otherwise. The law says that generally I may drink, alcohol
> or otherwise.
>
> Scotrail has gone down the path of telling me that I can't do
> something otherwise legal in case I abuse the situation. If I abuse it
> then you can throw the book at me, but I really won't.

An approach that works fine until there’s large scale or systematic abuse
and enforcement becomes effectively impossible, which is why there’s a ban
now. Defunding public services has consequences.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 18:36:18 +0000, Charles Ellson
<charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:45:51 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>
>>On 14/12/2023 12:37, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:34:02 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:17:47 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 13/12/2023 18:42, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <ulcrev$un92$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:59:59 on Wed, 13 Dec
>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Railway Tavern in Darlington, built by the Stockton & Darlington
>>>>>>> Railway, has been Grade II listed.
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-67691236>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Better news would be if Scotrail relented on their "no alcohol anywhere
>>>>>> on our system" policy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or, even better, NR ban alcohol on all service trains.
>>>>> It doesnt seem to have hit ridership on TfL.
>>>>
>>>> So you think it should be a commercial decision: ban adults from a
>>>> legal activity to boost ridership?
>>>>
>>> What law says it is legal to booze on a train?
>>
>>The same one that says it is legal to chat, read and do the crossword:
>>a general principle that we can do anything that isn't prohibited.
>>
>That is "lawful"; "legal" means there is a specific law supporting it.
>e.g. suicide is lawful but there is no law making it legal rather than
>the legal prohibition being abolished in England and Wales in 1961.
>The effective difference is between toleration and a specific right.

That's not required in the UK system. You, or a private company, can
do anything you like that hasn't been banned somehow. The exception is
Government at all levels which can only act within statutory powers.
This differs from other legal systems.

On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 06:38:20 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <ulf776$1eeuk$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:54 on Thu, 14 Dec
>2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> I've never bought the argument that banning drinks on trains make much
>>> difference. It's not a case of people getting on sober then becoming
>>> steaming drunk.
>>
>>Friday morning LNER train from Aberdeen. Oil rig workers going home. Now a
>>dry service.
>
>All the way to London?

I shared a journey from Aberdeen to Edinburgh in the company of one
such man. He was well tanked up and particularly offended by the fact
he'd paid £250 f*ing quid for his ticket and had nowhere to charge his
phone. I found him quite entertaining.
The train was an un refurbished ex-GWR HST.

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:37:44 +0000, Charles Ellson
>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:34:02 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:17:47 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 13/12/2023 18:42, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <ulcrev$un92$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:59:59 on Wed, 13 Dec
>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Railway Tavern in Darlington, built by the Stockton & Darlington
>>>>>>> Railway, has been Grade II listed.
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-67691236>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Better news would be if Scotrail relented on their "no alcohol anywhere
>>>>>> on our system" policy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or, even better, NR ban alcohol on all service trains.
>>>>> It doesnt seem to have hit ridership on TfL.
>>>>
>>>> So you think it should be a commercial decision: ban adults from a
>>>> legal activity to boost ridership?
>>>>
>>> What law says it is legal to booze on a train?
>>
>> The same one that says it's legal to drink water on a train? In the UK
>> system everything is legal as a private citizen unless there's a law
>> that says otherwise. The law says that generally I may drink, alcohol
>> or otherwise.
>>
>> Scotrail has gone down the path of telling me that I can't do
>> something otherwise legal in case I abuse the situation. If I abuse it
>> then you can throw the book at me, but I really won't.
>
> An approach that works fine until there’s large scale or systematic abuse
> and enforcement becomes effectively impossible, which is why there’s a ban
> now. Defunding public services has consequences.
>
> Sam
>

Scotland has a problem with drug and alcohol abuse in a significant part of
the population. It’s not pleasant being on a train with a load of drunks
working their way through a table full of booze and there’s little a single
train guard can do. Banning alcohol at least gives gateline staff and BTP
the opportunity to confiscate carry on supplies from the already
staggering. Making the ban 24/7 avoids the inevitable arguments about what
time the ban starts - never argue with a drunk.

Am 15.12.2023 um 07:42 schrieb Roland Perry:
> In message <ulf96t$1eoki$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:06:55 on Thu, 14 Dec
> 2023, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
>
>> I'd say that banning drinks on trains going to/from soccer matches
>> would make a hell of a lot of difference in Germany.  I know several
>> people who stay away from trains on Saturdays (or verify there's no
>> home game before doing their weekend planning).  Having a few hundred
>> drunk away-fans in a single train can be extremely unpleasant.
>
> It's not just trains. When I lived in Manchester back in the day one
> tried to avoid going to the City Centre any Saturday there was a home
> game, and the police used to patrol in threes.

Yes, but trains are the only 'long-distance' impact. When travelling
from Mannheim to Neustadt/Weinstrasse, football matches in
Kaiserslautern are relevant even though you stay away more than 20 miles
from Kaiserslautern.

On 15/12/2023 10:11, Ken wrote:
> The same one that says it's legal to drink water on a train? In the UK
> system everything is legal as a private citizen unless there's a law
> that says otherwise. The law says that generally I may drink, alcohol
> or otherwise.
>
> Scotrail has gone down the path of telling me that I can't do
> something otherwise legal in case I abuse the situation. If I abuse it
> then you can throw the book at me, but I really won't.

There must be lots of examples of things that are not illegal but are
banned in some places. I mentioned that many towns have a ban on
alcohol in the centre of the town, I suspect that many shopping malls
will also have a ban as they do on photography.

I can take a flash photograph using a tripod in most places but not on a
railway station.

Why do some seem to get some upset about not being able to drink alcohol
but accept other restrictions without making a fuss.

As far as I am concerned, the less contact I have with drunks the
better. They tend to be very boring even long before they are seriously
drunk. Usually after only a couple of drinks they think they are
experts on every subject.

On 15/12/2023 10:32, Tweed wrote:
> Scotland has a problem with drug and alcohol abuse in a significant part of
> the population. It’s not pleasant being on a train with a load of drunks
> working their way through a table full of booze and there’s little a single
> train guard can do. Banning alcohol at least gives gateline staff and BTP
> the opportunity to confiscate carry on supplies from the already
> staggering. Making the ban 24/7 avoids the inevitable arguments about what
> time the ban starts - never argue with a drunk.

Many of the Scots are proud of their addiction to alcohol, I remember
one colleague who had spent time on Orkney telling of one person there
opening a bottle of whisky, throwing away the bottle top with "we won't
be needing that again".

On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 11:50:40 +0000
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>On 15/12/2023 10:11, Ken wrote:
>> The same one that says it's legal to drink water on a train? In the UK
>> system everything is legal as a private citizen unless there's a law
>> that says otherwise. The law says that generally I may drink, alcohol
>> or otherwise.
>>
>> Scotrail has gone down the path of telling me that I can't do
>> something otherwise legal in case I abuse the situation. If I abuse it
>> then you can throw the book at me, but I really won't.
>
>
>
>There must be lots of examples of things that are not illegal but are
>banned in some places. I mentioned that many towns have a ban on
>alcohol in the centre of the town, I suspect that many shopping malls
>will also have a ban as they do on photography.
>
>I can take a flash photograph using a tripod in most places but not on a
>railway station.
>
>Why do some seem to get some upset about not being able to drink alcohol
>but accept other restrictions without making a fuss.
>
>As far as I am concerned, the less contact I have with drunks the
>better. They tend to be very boring even long before they are seriously
>drunk. Usually after only a couple of drinks they think they are
>experts on every subject.

Drinking is a standard tool for dull people to (they think) make themselves
more interesting. What usually happens is they're just as dull but annoying
with it.

On 15/12/2023 11:57, JMB99 wrote:
> On 15/12/2023 10:32, Tweed wrote:
>> Scotland has a problem with drug and alcohol abuse in a significant
>> part of
>> the population. It’s not pleasant being on a train with a load of drunks
>> working their way through a table full of booze and there’s little a
>> single
>> train guard can do. Banning alcohol at least gives gateline staff and BTP
>> the opportunity to confiscate carry on supplies from the already
>> staggering. Making the ban 24/7 avoids the inevitable arguments about
>> what
>> time the ban starts - never argue with a drunk.
>
> Many of the Scots are proud of their addiction to alcohol, I remember
> one colleague who had spent time on Orkney telling of one person there
> opening a bottle of whisky, throwing away the bottle top with "we won't
> be needing that again".
>
>
>
>

How life has changed! From the 1970s:

QUOTE
"The Medical Panel of the General Council of British Shipping have been
looking into this matter, and we think it may be worthwhile to pass on
their comments to you.

They have concluded that a weekly consumption of more than thirty five
pints of beer or two bottles of gin may pose a significant hazard to
health in the longer term.

You may be surprised by these modest quantities. None the less all
seagoing staff are advised to consider these recommendations with regard
to their alcohol consumption."
UNQUOTE

--
Colin

In message <ulh9v3$1s5rk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:03 on Fri, 15 Dec
2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>Scotland has a problem with drug and alcohol abuse in a significant part of
>the population.

Sod the population, many of the passengers are tourists.

>It’s not pleasant being on a train with a load of drunks
>working their way through a table full of booze and there’s little a single
>train guard can do. Banning alcohol at least gives gateline staff

Ha! Gateline in the Highlands, manned by giraffes.

>and BTP the opportunity to confiscate carry on supplies from the
>already staggering. Making the ban 24/7 avoids the inevitable arguments
>about what time the ban starts - never argue with a drunk.

--
Roland Perry

In message <ulh2fp$1r2je$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:24:26 on Fri, 15 Dec
2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <ulf776$1eeuk$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:54 on Thu, 14 Dec
>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> I've never bought the argument that banning drinks on trains make much
>>>> difference. It's not a case of people getting on sober then becoming
>>>> steaming drunk.
>>>
>>> Friday morning LNER train from Aberdeen. Oil rig workers going home. Now a
>>> dry service.
>>
>> All the way to London?
>
>Seems the ban ends at Newcastle.
>
>https://www.lner.co.uk/support/faq/on-board/catering/which-trains-are-no-al/
>
>Which trains can't I drink alcohol on?
>The alcohol-free policy will apply every Friday, on the 09.52 Aberdeen to
>London King's Cross train, between Aberdeen and Newcastle (and all calling
>points in between).
>
>We expect a number of large groups to be travelling on this train, so to
>help make it a pleasant experience for everyone, we'll be operating an
>alcohol-free policy for part of the journey.
>
>This means that alcohol cannot be brought onto or purchased on board our
>trains at any stop between Aberdeen and Newcastle, and customers may be
>searched before boarding. Additionally, alcoholic drinks will not be served
>as part of the complimentary food and drink offer in First Class until
>after Newcastle.

Because those large groups of troublemakers tend to buy First Class
tickets??
--
Roland Perry

In message <0t9onilsm15l09sjpre9k50p0f00r8qfk5@4ax.com>, at 10:19:26 on
Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 06:38:20 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <ulf776$1eeuk$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:54 on Thu, 14 Dec
>>2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> I've never bought the argument that banning drinks on trains make much
>>>> difference. It's not a case of people getting on sober then becoming
>>>> steaming drunk.
>>>
>>>Friday morning LNER train from Aberdeen. Oil rig workers going home. Now a
>>>dry service.
>>
>>All the way to London?
>
>I shared a journey from Aberdeen to Edinburgh in the company of one
>such man. He was well tanked up and particularly offended by the fact
>he'd paid £250 f*ing quid for his ticket

I only paid a little more than twice that for a 7-day all lines First
Class rover. £580. And the staff treat you like royalty.

>and had nowhere to charge his phone. I found him quite entertaining.
>The train was an un refurbished ex-GWR HST.

--
Roland Perry

In message <ulh8i5$1rpqa$4@dont-email.me>, at 10:08:06 on Fri, 15 Dec
2023, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
>I have long wished that drinking alcohol was only done in private and
>there was an offence of 'being drunk in a public place' which was
>enforced.
>
>Just treat it like any other addiction.

I'd certainly support a national ban on smoking in all public places
(not just indoors)
--
Roland Perry

On 15/12/2023 15:29, ColinR wrote:
> QUOTE
> "The Medical Panel of the General Council of British Shipping have been
> looking into this matter, and we think it may be worthwhile to pass on
> their comments to you.
>
> They have concluded that a weekly consumption of more than thirty five
> pints of beer or two bottles of gin may pose a significant hazard to
> health in the longer term.
>
> You may be surprised by these modest quantities. None the less all
> seagoing staff are advised to consider these recommendations with regard
> to their alcohol consumption."
> UNQUOTE

I never drank much but I stopped completely because it was easier than
keeping saying "No" to "are you sure you will not have a dram". We had a
boss who thought he was a whisky connoisseur (i.e. alcoholic).

A friend lived on Lewis, he told me once that one of the Calmac captain
used to go down South over New Year to get away from all the heavy drinking.

I can't stand whisky so have accumulated several bottles that I have
been given and just put in the cupboard.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <ulh9v3$1s5rk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:03 on Fri, 15 Dec
> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>> Scotland has a problem with drug and alcohol abuse in a significant part of
>> the population.
>
> Sod the population, many of the passengers are tourists.
>
>> It’s not pleasant being on a train with a load of drunks
>> working their way through a table full of booze and there’s little a single
>> train guard can do. Banning alcohol at least gives gateline staff
>
> Ha! Gateline in the Highlands, manned by giraffes.
>
>> and BTP the opportunity to confiscate carry on supplies from the
>> already staggering. Making the ban 24/7 avoids the inevitable arguments
>> about what time the ban starts - never argue with a drunk.
>

There’s gate lines at the main stations in the central belt. It’s much
easier to have blanket rules that cover Scotrail than get into arguments
with drunks as to whether or not that particular route is covered. As to
tourists. I’d imagine they might prefer a non threatening environment on
tneir train.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <ulh2fp$1r2je$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:24:26 on Fri, 15 Dec
> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <ulf776$1eeuk$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:54 on Thu, 14 Dec
>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> I've never bought the argument that banning drinks on trains make much
>>>>> difference. It's not a case of people getting on sober then becoming
>>>>> steaming drunk.
>>>>
>>>> Friday morning LNER train from Aberdeen. Oil rig workers going home. Now a
>>>> dry service.
>>>
>>> All the way to London?
>>
>> Seems the ban ends at Newcastle.
>>
>> https://www.lner.co.uk/support/faq/on-board/catering/which-trains-are-no-al/
>>
>> Which trains can't I drink alcohol on?
>> The alcohol-free policy will apply every Friday, on the 09.52 Aberdeen to
>> London King's Cross train, between Aberdeen and Newcastle (and all calling
>> points in between).
>>
>> We expect a number of large groups to be travelling on this train, so to
>> help make it a pleasant experience for everyone, we'll be operating an
>> alcohol-free policy for part of the journey.
>>
>> This means that alcohol cannot be brought onto or purchased on board our
>> trains at any stop between Aberdeen and Newcastle, and customers may be
>> searched before boarding. Additionally, alcoholic drinks will not be served
>> as part of the complimentary food and drink offer in First Class until
>> after Newcastle.
>
> Because those large groups of troublemakers tend to buy First Class
> tickets??

Yes - rig workers are very well paid.