Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
> On 16/12/2023 15:09, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <ulk1b4$2btbq$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:23:16 on Sat, 16 Dec
>> 2023, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 06:36:51 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> I'd believe they might not serve alcohol before 10am, which could be a
>>>> 365-day thing in Scotland, but only Sundays in England.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if Scottish airport departure lounges have that restriction
>>>> too?
>>>
>>> The 10am to 10pm restriction is for off-sales. You can buy alcohol for
>>> consumption on the premises before 10am, if the establishment has a
>>> license permitting it.
>>
>> I got the impression from such a potential licnece-holder that such an
>> application was bound to fail.
>
> Licences permitting early drinking have certainly been issued in
> Edinburgh for pubs popular with shift workers, etc., but I don't know
> of any recent new ones.

When The Scotsman used to occupy and print the paper in its eponymous
building, now a hotel, there would be one or more of the pubs on
Fleshmarket Close (Halfway House, Jinglin’ Geordie, ISTR there was on up on
Cockburn St as well) which would be open in the morning as the printworkers
came off shift.

Sam

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On 22/12/2023 14:14, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>> On 16/12/2023 15:09, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <ulk1b4$2btbq$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:23:16 on Sat, 16 Dec
>>> 2023, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
>>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 06:36:51 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> I'd believe they might not serve alcohol before 10am, which could be a
>>>>> 365-day thing in Scotland, but only Sundays in England.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if Scottish airport departure lounges have that restriction
>>>>> too?
>>>>
>>>> The 10am to 10pm restriction is for off-sales. You can buy alcohol for
>>>> consumption on the premises before 10am, if the establishment has a
>>>> license permitting it.
>>>
>>> I got the impression from such a potential licnece-holder that such an
>>> application was bound to fail.
>>
>> Licences permitting early drinking have certainly been issued in
>> Edinburgh for pubs popular with shift workers, etc., but I don't know
>> of any recent new ones.
>
> When The Scotsman used to occupy and print the paper in its eponymous
> building, now a hotel, there would be one or more of the pubs on
> Fleshmarket Close (Halfway House, Jinglin’ Geordie, ISTR there was on up on
> Cockburn St as well) which would be open in the morning as the printworkers
> came off shift.

The Penny Black, opposite the old sorting office at the East End of
Edinburgh, was well known for opening at 5am for postal workers.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 18/12/2023 19:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <ulq68t$3l0v7$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:24:13 on Mon, 18 Dec
>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <ulpock$3i1em$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:27:16 on Mon, 18 Dec
>>>>> 2023, nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 14:58:24 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <ulpg2s$3gltp$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:05:32 on Mon, 18 Dec
>>>>>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 18/12/2023 12:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <ulpa0i$3fk3o$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:21:54 on Mon, 18
>>>>>>>>> Dec
>>>>>>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 18/12/2023 10:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Put a longer cable in your road warrior kit and/or get a phone
>>>>>>>>>>>> charger  wallwart that sticks out perpendicular to the socket.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Another  top-tip is  to have one of these:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I always keep a USB extension lead on my phone (and other devices)
>>>>>>>>>>> charger leads.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or simply carry a battery pack.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do that too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then you aren’t dependent on the socket  being available or
>>>>>>>>>> working. Mine is the same size as my iPhone SE and  will  charge
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> phone three times over.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mine is about the size of three iPhones stacked together.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Comes with integrated lightning, micro usb and usb-c leads, some
>>>>>>>>>> usb-a  and usb-c sockets and an integrated usb-a lead to plug it
>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>> a charger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's a separate issue, but I do have something a bit like a
>>>>>>>>> Swiss-Army-Knife with all the different connectors included.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a charge lead with four plugs.  Two C's, a micro, and an apple
>>>>>>>> things.  The apple thing has a micro adapter for my cameras.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since the lead does not have data the power wires are quite thick
>>>>>>>> and it
>>>>>>>> charges relatively quickly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not even the thinnest USB cable's conductors will limit the charge
>>>>>>> speed, which is entirely how much can be pushed. Maybe some phones
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> also have a cap on how much you can push, but (eg) 3A seems more than
>>>>>>> most chargers can manage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure. A while ago I played with various cables between the same
>>>>>> source and load, with a meter connected. The charge rate certainly
>>>>>> varied
>>>>>> with cable type. I suspect the sending end of measuring the sending end
>>>>>> voltage and reducing current if necessary to keep it within some limit.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's to do with the way the phone and charger negotiate the
>>>>> push-speed, and I think that needs an extra wire which not all cables
>>>>> have at all.
>>>>
>>>> It really isn’t for the cables, phones and chargers I used. If you have a
>>>> cite for USB cables with an extra conductor wire I’d be very interested.
>>>
>>> I have several USB cables that "don't do data", and others that "don't
>>> negotiate a higher than default push-amperage". I'd be interested in
>>> your theories as to why that happens, if it's not a result of extra
>>> conductors (or for USB3, extra gubbins in the plug at the end of the
>>> cable).
>>>
>>> Thickness of conductor is absolutely a red herring.
>>
>> I've been given to understand it's extra gubbins in the plug, as you put
>> it. The cheaper leads dispense with it which is why certain functions
>> are not available.
>>
>
> Do you know what Apple looks for? I have an Android phone which happily
> charges using any USB-C cable it meets. My previous (2018 model) iPad Pro
> was fussier, but would charge over most good quality USB-C cables. My newer
> (M1) iPad Pro is really fussy, and spurns most USB-C cables (unless they're
> original Apple ones).

Apple USB-A-Lightning cables definitely have gubbins in the connector(s).
I have a battery pack with USB-A outlets. When I use it to charge my phone
(USB-C) or one of several micro-USB devices the pack only comes to life
when the device is connected to the other end of the cable. When the
Lightning cable is connected the pack comes alive with just the cable’s
USB-A in the pack and nothing on the other end.

Sam

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Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 14:14:16 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <ulik64$237hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:32:36 on Fri, 15 Dec
>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <ulh8i5$1rpqa$4@dont-email.me>, at 10:08:06 on Fri, 15 Dec
>>>>> 2023, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>>>> I have long wished that drinking alcohol was only done in private and
>>>>>> there was an offence of 'being drunk in a public place' which was
>>>>>> enforced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just treat it like any other addiction.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd certainly support a national ban on smoking in all public places
>>>>> (not just indoors)
>>>>
>>>> The trouble with drugs is that they’re not all the same. Tobacco is very
>>>> addictive for some people, but has very few immediate effects on behaviour,
>>>
>>> Really? It seems to calm the addicts down considerably, once they can
>>> find a place to have surreptitious fag. (Double entendre alert!)
>>
>> I gather that smoking relieves the withdrawal symptoms of smoking, but
>> nicotine doesn’t otherwise induce intoxication or impair other mental or
>> bodily functions. Other recreational drugs usually do.
>>
> From the Merck Life Science UK MSDS for nicotine :-
>
> Acute toxicity, Oral (Category 2), H300
> Acute toxicity, Inhalation (Category 2), H330
> Acute toxicity, Dermal (Category 2), H310
> Skin irritation (Category 2), H315
> Serious eye damage (Category 1), H318
>
> Fatal if swallowed, in contact with skin or if inhaled.
>
> Systemic effects:
> Dizziness
> cardiovascular disorders
> CNS disorders
> agitation, spasms
> depressed respiration
> Coma
>
> Other dangerous properties can not be excluded.

Not sure what the H numbers mean. Is there a therapeutic or LD50 dose
given? Clearly very few people, if any, experience those effects at the
dosage levels available in cigarettes or vapes.

Sam

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On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 13:47:07 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 14:14:16 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <ulik64$237hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:32:36 on Fri, 15 Dec
>>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <ulh8i5$1rpqa$4@dont-email.me>, at 10:08:06 on Fri, 15 Dec
>>>>>> 2023, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>>>>> I have long wished that drinking alcohol was only done in private and
>>>>>>> there was an offence of 'being drunk in a public place' which was
>>>>>>> enforced.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just treat it like any other addiction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd certainly support a national ban on smoking in all public places
>>>>>> (not just indoors)
>>>>>
>>>>> The trouble with drugs is that they?re not all the same. Tobacco is very
>>>>> addictive for some people, but has very few immediate effects on behaviour,
>>>>
>>>> Really? It seems to calm the addicts down considerably, once they can
>>>> find a place to have surreptitious fag. (Double entendre alert!)
>>>
>>> I gather that smoking relieves the withdrawal symptoms of smoking, but
>>> nicotine doesn?t otherwise induce intoxication or impair other mental or
>>> bodily functions. Other recreational drugs usually do.
>>>
>> From the Merck Life Science UK MSDS for nicotine :-
>>
>> Acute toxicity, Oral (Category 2), H300
>> Acute toxicity, Inhalation (Category 2), H330
>> Acute toxicity, Dermal (Category 2), H310
>> Skin irritation (Category 2), H315
>> Serious eye damage (Category 1), H318
>>
>> Fatal if swallowed, in contact with skin or if inhaled.
>>
>> Systemic effects:
>> Dizziness
>> cardiovascular disorders
>> CNS disorders
>> agitation, spasms
>> depressed respiration
>> Coma
>>
>> Other dangerous properties can not be excluded.
>
>Not sure what the H numbers mean.
>
Hazard statements.
In Hnxx
n=2 for physical hazards
n=3 for health hazards
n=4 for environmental hazards

e.g.
H318 causes serious eye damage
H319 causes serious eye irritation
H290 may be corrosive to metals
often used in full somewhere in an MSDS

>Is there a therapeutic
>
Not in an MSDS. Therapeutic use is in medical data like that found in
the BNF and presumably varies by world/state/region when considering
that e.g. some consumer doses of everyday medicines used in the USA
would be overdoses in the UK.

>or LD50 dose given?
>
Yes in MSDSs.

>Clearly very few people, if any, experience those effects at the
>dosage levels available in cigarettes or vapes.
>
They do but it can take a long time; the contents of vapes are often
reported as being even less certain than cigarettes. Two things with
identical LD50 doses can have very different long term harm/lethality.
Nicotinamide (aka niacinamide -related to niacin/vitamin B3) exists as
a poison/irritant with some fairly high looking LD50 doses but is also
an insecticide. It also exists as a medicine which in some overseas
information carries a cancer warning for internal use but in the BNF
is only listed as an external medicine for acne along with warnings to
keep away from eyes and mucous membranes..