On 2023-11-11 01:33, Wally J wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>
>>> There was a Lightning FM radio for iPhones but it is no longer available
>>> <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G1LGS62>.
>>
>> I have been listening to the radio in this room for the last two months,
>> using Open Radio app on a tablet (ie, via internet) and a BT speaker.
>
> Bear in mind it's only iPhones which completely lack modern functionality
> (such as portable memory slots and the industry standard 3.5mm aux jack).
>
> FACT:
> Most Android phones have them; yet no new iPhones do.

So your "only iPhones" is a lie.

You're... ...not bright.

Alan Browne- <oneway@down.net> wrote

> On 2023-11-10 13:08, Alan wrote:
>
>> I live in Canada and I have never ONCE seen anyone listening to FM radio
>> on a phone.
>
> If you see someone using an iPhone listening to their buds, they may
> indeed be listening to a radio station feed via itunes or Web interface.
>
> Not sure how you would see that, of course.

The fact Alan hasn't "seen" anyone on Android doing anything useful doesn't
mean anything other than it's more evidence that Alan Browne is ignorant.

Using <news:uim0l3$2vtg8$1@dont-email.me>, sms wrote:

>>> How many people are even AWARE that their phone has an FM radio?
>>
>> I am using it right now :-)
>
> At the health club I go to they have three televisions viewable from
> many of the exercise machines. They broadcast the audio on LPFM radio.
> So it's useful to have a phone with an FM receiver if you want audio.
> Alas, without a headphone jack, since the headphone wire acts as an
> antenna, a built-in FM radio is not possible.
>
> Bluetooth Auracast <https://www.bluetooth.com/auracast/>, when it is
> deployed, will be a better option for this sort of application.
>
> There are some RTL receivers that can connect to USB-OTG, via a USB-A to
> USB-C, or a Micro-USB to USB-C adapter, so you can receive broadcast FM,
> but these are unwieldy.
>
> There was a Lightning FM radio for iPhones but it is no longer available
> <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G1LGS62>.

I would like to ask if there is any advantage to the user not having these
fundamental components in a phone compared to a basic phone that has them?

Aux jacks
SD slots
FM radios

On 2023-11-12 04:25:02 +0000, david said:
> Using <news:uim0l3$2vtg8$1@dont-email.me>, sms wrote:
>
>>>> How many people are even AWARE that their phone has an FM radio?
>>>
>>> I am using it right now :-)
>>
>> At the health club I go to they have three televisions viewable from
>> many of the exercise machines. They broadcast the audio on LPFM radio.
>> So it's useful to have a phone with an FM receiver if you want audio.
>> Alas, without a headphone jack, since the headphone wire acts as an
>> antenna, a built-in FM radio is not possible.
>>
>> Bluetooth Auracast <https://www.bluetooth.com/auracast/>, when it is
>> deployed, will be a better option for this sort of application.
>>
>> There are some RTL receivers that can connect to USB-OTG, via a USB-A
>> to USB-C, or a Micro-USB to USB-C adapter, so you can receive broadcast
>> FM, but these are unwieldy.
>>
>> There was a Lightning FM radio for iPhones but it is no longer
>> available <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G1LGS62>.
>
> I would like to ask if there is any advantage to the user not having these
> fundamental components in a phone compared to a basic phone that has them?
>
> Aux jacks
> SD slots

Fewer holes in the case for dust and water to get inside for a start.

> FM radios

Just something else to go wrong that most people would never use anyway.

Alan, 2023-11-12 02:20:

> On 2023-11-11 01:33, Wally J wrote:
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>
>>>> There was a Lightning FM radio for iPhones but it is no longer available
>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G1LGS62>.
>>>
>>> I have been listening to the radio in this room for the last two months,
>>> using Open Radio app on a tablet (ie, via internet) and a BT speaker.
>>
>> Bear in mind it's only iPhones which completely lack modern functionality
>> (such as portable memory slots and the industry standard 3.5mm aux jack).
>>
>> FACT:
>> Most Android phones have them; yet no new iPhones do.
>
> So your "only iPhones" is a lie.

Indeed. Samsung Android devices don't have a headphone jack and also no
SD card slot. And the same applies to Google Pixel and many other vendors.

Just some Chinese vendors still provide this because it seems to be
important for their market. But otherwise SD cards and headphone jacks
are mostly gone.

Even the newer models of Fairphone which claim to be sustainable and
following the needs of the users do not have a headphone jack.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

david, 2023-11-12 05:25:

[...]
> I would like to ask if there is any advantage to the user not having these
> fundamental components in a phone compared to a basic phone that has them?
>
> Aux jacks
> SD slots
> FM radios

Less parts which can break.

And also the devices get cheaper if vendors don't have to add parts
which are only useful for a limited number of customers.

Personally I don't miss SD cards - sometimes they started failing in
less than a year and they are usually much slower than internal memory.
And having 128 GB of storage in my current Google Pixel 6a is completely
sufficient for my needs.

Also FM radio was never important for me. And if I want to listen to the
radio while commuting to the office, I get all the radio stations online
as well. And with a data plan which provides 20 GB per month this is not
a problem at all. Yes, for people living in areas with flaky mobile
networks this may be different.

FM radio also requires a headphone jack since the cable is used as
antenna. So using that with wireless headphones is not possible at all -
but many people nowadays like to have wireless headphones. And using
USB-C headphones is not much different to having a headphone jack. In
fact with an external USB DAC you can get much better audio quality if
you are an audiophile and want to listen to your FLAC music collection
with the highest possible quality:

<https://www.audioquest.com/dacs/dragonfly/dragonfly-cobalt>

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2023-11-12 10:37, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Alan, 2023-11-12 02:20:
>
>> On 2023-11-11 01:33, Wally J wrote:
>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>
>>>>> There was a Lightning FM radio for iPhones but it is no longer available
>>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G1LGS62>.
>>>>
>>>> I have been listening to the radio in this room for the last two months,
>>>> using Open Radio app on a tablet (ie, via internet) and a BT speaker.
>>>
>>> Bear in mind it's only iPhones which completely lack modern functionality
>>> (such as portable memory slots and the industry standard 3.5mm aux jack).
>>>
>>> FACT:
>>> Most Android phones have them; yet no new iPhones do.
>>
>> So your "only iPhones" is a lie.
>
> Indeed. Samsung Android devices don't have a headphone jack and also no
> SD card slot. And the same applies to Google Pixel and many other vendors.
>
> Just some Chinese vendors still provide this because it seems to be
> important for their market. But otherwise SD cards and headphone jacks
> are mostly gone.

Not true.

Motorola has them, for instance.

>
> Even the newer models of Fairphone which claim to be sustainable and
> following the needs of the users do not have a headphone jack.
Fairphones are not known for being feature rich, precisely.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote

> Indeed. Samsung Android devices don't have a headphone jack and also no
> SD card slot. And the same applies to Google Pixel and many other vendors.

WTF? You're just wrong. You're so wrong you're just making wrong shit up.

The point is if you want these things, you can easily find Androids with
them - but not iPhones because the iPhone is crippled in hardware features.

Hell, all my _free_ Samsung Galaxy A32-5G's (I got five!) came with an
a. Industry standard aux jack
b. Industry standard sd slot
c. Correctly sized industry standard fast charger in the box

And, besides, _most_ Samsung's have the aux jack or sd slot or charger in
the box, just like most Android phones have them too.

It's mainly only the iPhones which are crippled in lacking all three.

Apple makes ungodly profits by removing basic functionality so you are
limited in how you have to buy it back - which the _high end_ Samsung's
have moved to (because their customer can afford to waste their money).

Samsung & Google can afford to make a few high-end models that they can
_copy_ Apple's predatory practices of removing functionality - but the vast
majority of Android phones have these things.

The iPhone is crippled in all three (sd slot, aux & charger in the box).
But the fact remains most Android (including Samsung) phones have them.

On this Sun, 12 Nov 2023 18:00:33 +1300, Your Name wrote:

> Fewer holes in the case for dust and water to get inside for a start.
>
>> FM radios

Are the IP ratings higher for all the phones that lack the normal ports?
> Just something else to go wrong that most people would never use anyway.

What goes wrong with the normal smartphone FM radio on most Android phones?

On 11/12/2023 4:48 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:

> Less parts which can break.
>
> And also the devices get cheaper if vendors don't have to add parts
> which are only useful for a limited number of customers.
>
> Personally I don't miss SD cards - sometimes they started failing in
> less than a year and they are usually much slower than internal memory.
> And having 128 GB of storage in my current Google Pixel 6a is completely
> sufficient for my needs.
>
> Also FM radio was never important for me. And if I want to listen to the
> radio while commuting to the office, I get all the radio stations online
> as well. And with a data plan which provides 20 GB per month this is not
> a problem at all. Yes, for people living in areas with flaky mobile
> networks this may be different.
>
> FM radio also requires a headphone jack since the cable is used as
> antenna. So using that with wireless headphones is not possible at all -
> but many people nowadays like to have wireless headphones. And using
> USB-C headphones is not much different to having a headphone jack. In
> fact with an external USB DAC you can get much better audio quality if
> you are an audiophile and want to listen to your FLAC music collection
> with the highest possible quality:
>
> <https://www.audioquest.com/dacs/dragonfly/dragonfly-cobalt>

Which means by definition, if it's missing these important hardware
capabilities, it's a less functional device than one that has them.

On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 13:58:25 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>> Just some Chinese vendors still provide this because it seems to be
>> important for their market. But otherwise SD cards and headphone jacks
>> are mostly gone.
>
> Not true.
>
> Motorola has them, for instance.

Not only Motorola. But also most Android phones have them.

Any phone with them can do more than any phone without them.
And any phone without them does less than any phone with them.

On 11/11/2023 10:25 PM, david wrote:

<snip>

> I would like to ask if there is any advantage to the user not having these
> fundamental components in a phone compared to a basic phone that has them?
>
> Aux jacks
> SD slots
> FM radios

The lack of these features reduces the cost to the manufacturer in
components, assembly cost, and repair costs.

Perhaps a tiny portion of the savings are passed on to the user in the
form of a minuscule price reduction, but probably not since that's not
the way manufacturer's set prices.

For Apple, there are big advantages in omitting those features (other
than the FM radio which SOCs in early iPhones had). It encourages the
sale of phones with more internal memory. It results in more sales of
Airpods.

When data was very expensive, an FM radio was a useful feature to listen
to music without consuming data. It's still useful in certain situations
such as when natural disasters take down the cellular networks and to
receive LPFM broadcasts in some venues. I wonder how many people have a
battery powered radio at home anymore.

--

“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
[...]

> Indeed. Samsung Android devices don't have a headphone jack and also no
> SD card slot. And the same applies to Google Pixel and many other vendors.

Make that *some* Samsung Android devices, probably mainly/only the
high-end models.

My Galaxy A51 has headphone jack, SD card slot and FM radio. And even
the newest replacement (A54G) still has a SD card slot (USB-C earjack,
no details about FM radio).

So over time these features may be phased out, but rather slowly and
the SD card slot is probably the last to go. (The SD card slot has
become less important because of larger and relatively cheaper Internal
Storage sizes, but not unimportant, especially not at the low end.)

[...]

Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 13:58:

> On 2023-11-12 10:37, Arno Welzel wrote:
[...]
>> Indeed. Samsung Android devices don't have a headphone jack and also no
>> SD card slot. And the same applies to Google Pixel and many other vendors.
>>
>> Just some Chinese vendors still provide this because it seems to be
>> important for their market. But otherwise SD cards and headphone jacks
>> are mostly gone.
>
> Not true.
>
> Motorola has them, for instance.

So what? I said "mostly" and not "completely". This means: most vendors
don't add headphone jacks any longer. This is still true, even if
Motorola still adds them.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Wolf Greenblatt, 2023-11-12 14:19:

> On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 13:58:25 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>>> Just some Chinese vendors still provide this because it seems to be
>>> important for their market. But otherwise SD cards and headphone jacks
>>> are mostly gone.
>>
>> Not true.
>>
>> Motorola has them, for instance.
>
> Not only Motorola. But also most Android phones have them.
>
> Any phone with them can do more than any phone without them.
> And any phone without them does less than any phone with them.

What exactly besides using a wired headset without an integrated
USB-DAC? I have a wired USB-C-headset for my Google Pixel 6a which works
fine and in the handling there is not really a difference. Besides that
I also find my Shokz OpenComm bluetooth headset very useful - not
covering my ears at all and people understand me very good an clear. If
needed, I also have a USB-C-adapter for analog connections if I ever
need to connect my phone to an amplifier to listen to music. And in this
case I also have *much* better audio quality when using uncompressed
audio files.

Yes I know, people argue, that charging in parallel while listening to
music needs an additional adapter - but how often is this relevant for
the majority of users?

JFTR: FM radio is not always included just because a device has a
headphone jack.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Charlie, 2023-11-12 14:13:

> On this Sun, 12 Nov 2023 18:00:33 +1300, Your Name wrote:
>
>> Fewer holes in the case for dust and water to get inside for a start.
>>
>>> FM radios
>
> Are the IP ratings higher for all the phones that lack the normal ports?

It is easier to achieve with one less jack opening in the case. But of
course it is also possible with headphone jacks. My old Sony Z3 Compact
was also water proof and it had a headphone jack. But back then it was
also not the cheapest one compared to other devices with similar hardware.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Larry Wolff, 2023-11-12 14:18:

> On 11/12/2023 4:48 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> Less parts which can break.
>>
>> And also the devices get cheaper if vendors don't have to add parts
>> which are only useful for a limited number of customers.
[...]
> Which means by definition, if it's missing these important hardware
> capabilities, it's a less functional device than one that has them.

By definition yes. But by definition a modern car does not have a steam
engine and can not run on coal and water. So it is a less functional
vehicle as well ;-)

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Frank Slootweg, 2023-11-12 16:20:

> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> Indeed. Samsung Android devices don't have a headphone jack and also no
>> SD card slot. And the same applies to Google Pixel and many other vendors.
>
> Make that *some* Samsung Android devices, probably mainly/only the
> high-end models.
>
> My Galaxy A51 has headphone jack, SD card slot and FM radio. And even
> the newest replacement (A54G) still has a SD card slot (USB-C earjack,
> no details about FM radio).

The A51 it is more than three years old. The A54 does not have a
headphone jack any longer and if you want to use the SD card you have to
give up a SIM slot for that - probably because it was cheaper just to
keep the slot as it is as long as Samsung can not ditch this completely
when using eSIM only in the future.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

sms, 2023-11-12 15:30:

[...]
> When data was very expensive, an FM radio was a useful feature to listen
> to music without consuming data. It's still useful in certain situations
> such as when natural disasters take down the cellular networks and to
> receive LPFM broadcasts in some venues. I wonder how many people have a
> battery powered radio at home anymore.

I wonder if people would even know how to use the FM radio in there
phone. And besides that - with a natural disaster a fragile device which
only lasts 20-40 hours with one battery charge is not that helpful anyway.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote

>>> Fewer holes in the case for dust and water to get inside for a start.
>>>
>>>> FM radios
>>
>> Are the IP ratings higher for all the phones that lack the normal ports?
>
> It is easier to achieve with one less jack opening in the case. But of
> course it is also possible with headphone jacks. My old Sony Z3 Compact
> was also water proof and it had a headphone jack. But back then it was
> also not the cheapest one compared to other devices with similar hardware.

There is only one reason Apple removed the charger and the headphone jack.
(It's the same reason no iPhone has basic standard portable storage slots.)

And no, it's not for waterproofing, as Arno Welzel shows he knows well.

It's Apple's basic strategy to drastically limit hardware & software
functionality so Apple can better control how the consumer buys it back.
--
When you look at it from a functionality standpoint, for both hardware &
for software, there never was an iPhone that could be compared to Android
(unless you choose to completely ignore the iPhone is crippled by Apple).

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote

>> Motorola has them, for instance.
>
> So what? I said "mostly" and not "completely". This means: most vendors
> don't add headphone jacks any longer. This is still true, even if
> Motorola still adds them.

Arno,

You're wrong. Dead wrong. You know this so you're clearly lying now.
Why?

Why do you feel you have to lie when you were given the facts already?
*0% of iPhones have key modern hardware capabilities - while from 66%*
*to 78% of Android phone have that key modern hardware functionality*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/vLB-bIF-P5Q/>

Do you ever look anything up before you say it? Or do you just guess?
(If we use the normal use of "most", then most Androids come with it.)

It's only the very few (mostly high-end) Android models that mimic Apple's
basic marketing strategy of removing functionality so Apple can control how
the user buys it back.

Look it up before you respond please.

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg, 2023-11-12 16:20:
>
> > Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >> Indeed. Samsung Android devices don't have a headphone jack and also no
> >> SD card slot. And the same applies to Google Pixel and many other vendors.
> >
> > Make that *some* Samsung Android devices, probably mainly/only the
> > high-end models.
> >
> > My Galaxy A51 has headphone jack, SD card slot and FM radio. And even
> > the newest replacement (A54G) still has a SD card slot (USB-C earjack,
> > no details about FM radio).
>
> The A51 it is more than three years old. The A54 does not have a
> headphone jack any longer and if you want to use the SD card you have to
> give up a SIM slot for that - probably because it was cheaper just to
> keep the slot as it is as long as Samsung can not ditch this completely
> when using eSIM only in the future.

Yes, the A51 is more than three years old, but this urban legend
(mainly from Apple fanbois) about no headphone jack/SD card slot/FM radio
has been going on even longer than that and there have been several
models between the 'old' A51 and the current A54G.

BTW, my A51 has two SIM slots *and* a MicroSD slot.

Also note that a (Samsung) model number doesn't uniquely define a
certain product. Different products for different markets. For example
the 'A54G' I'm looking at is a SM-A546BLGCEUB. How about *them* apples!?
Oops! :-) (My 'A51' is a SM-A515FZKVEUB.)

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> sms, 2023-11-12 15:30:
>
> [...]
> > When data was very expensive, an FM radio was a useful feature to listen
> > to music without consuming data. It's still useful in certain situations
> > such as when natural disasters take down the cellular networks and to
> > receive LPFM broadcasts in some venues. I wonder how many people have a
> > battery powered radio at home anymore.
>
> I wonder if people would even know how to use the FM radio in there
> phone. And besides that - with a natural disaster a fragile device which
> only lasts 20-40 hours with one battery charge is not that helpful anyway.

That's what power banks are for (yes, mine are charged). And then
there's the car, which has an even bigger battery and ... <ding> <ding>
.... a FM radio! :-)

Just kidding (a bit).

On 2023-11-12 16:20, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> Indeed. Samsung Android devices don't have a headphone jack and also no
>> SD card slot. And the same applies to Google Pixel and many other vendors.
>
> Make that *some* Samsung Android devices, probably mainly/only the
> high-end models.
>
> My Galaxy A51 has headphone jack, SD card slot and FM radio. And even
> the newest replacement (A54G) still has a SD card slot (USB-C earjack,
> no details about FM radio).
>
> So over time these features may be phased out, but rather slowly and
> the SD card slot is probably the last to go. (The SD card slot has
> become less important because of larger and relatively cheaper Internal
> Storage sizes, but not unimportant, especially not at the low end.)

My Motorola is dual SIM, but actually instead of a second sim I can put
a memory card. It is either sim or memory card, not both.

My second motorola phone did not mention FM radio, but when I initially
cloned it over from my previous phone, the FM radio app was installed
and actually works.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-11-12 17:55, Arno Welzel wrote:
> sms, 2023-11-12 15:30:
>
> [...]
>> When data was very expensive, an FM radio was a useful feature to listen
>> to music without consuming data. It's still useful in certain situations
>> such as when natural disasters take down the cellular networks and to
>> receive LPFM broadcasts in some venues. I wonder how many people have a
>> battery powered radio at home anymore.
>
> I wonder if people would even know how to use the FM radio in there
> phone. And besides that - with a natural disaster a fragile device which
> only lasts 20-40 hours with one battery charge is not that helpful anyway.

With a natural disaster or war, the only thing on the phone that might
work is the FM radio :-P

Phone service and Internet are much more fragile.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.